Easter Mafia [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will consider what you've said on Dizzy, Scotty, and do my own work on that front.

I'm not clear on how you read nutella presently.

[Scotty]

I will consider what you've said on Dizzy, Scotty, and do my own work on that front.

I'm not clear on how you read nutella presently.

Me neither. I’ll be reviewing her next

[Scotty]

Epi can’t really be serious in voting for JJJ, can he?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]nutella[/mention], what do you think of Scotty's case against Dizzy?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epi can’t really be serious in voting for JJJ, can he?

You can't really be serious that in LyLo, you're not even paying mind to the possibility that I should be lynched, can you?

The same goes for Dizzy two-fold. One thing I agree with Scotty about is that eliminating both nutella and I from the pool is both convenient and self-serving.

[nutella]

@nutella, what do you think of Scotty's case against Dizzy?

He made a couple ok points so it's worth looking into, but at this point I could be more easily convinced that you are bad than that Dyslexicon is

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How the hell am I supposed to respond to this jay? Your opinion of TMI is just me postulating

I don't build a case with the intent that "the accused can fairly respond" -- indeed they often cannot. I made very similar accusations against Colin, and right now I feel pretty justified in that. When you say you were/are "postulating", is that to say that you were considering the game state under the assumption that I am a civilian? That's fine, but what's missing is the reverse postulate that I am not.

I know you dipped your toes into the waters of JJJ suspicion, but those dips were so tiny and so brief as to be rendered irrelevant.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella, what do you think of Scotty's case against Dizzy?

He made a couple ok points so it's worth looking into, but at this point I could be more easily convinced that you are bad than that Dyslexicon is

This is the second time I've seen you willfully infect your own ability to judge other players with a preconception. How can you be objective with this mindset?

[nutella]

Like actually I slept on it and the more I think about it the more I can see it (Evil Jay). For one thing he has spent a large portion of the game constantly demanding PoE pools from everyone-- could he have been ensuring that he was in few enough of them that his plan would work, the plan being to vote for and reveal Colin on day 4 and then mislynching two civs from the PoE earning him the victory? Fuck man, we might be getting well and truly hoodwinked here. Scotty whaddaya think

[nutella]

nutella, what do you think of Scotty's case against Dizzy?

He made a couple ok points so it's worth looking into, but at this point I could be more easily convinced that you are bad than that Dyslexicon is

This is the second time I've seen you willfully infect your own ability to judge other players with a preconception. How can you be objective with this mindset?

Objective is not a thing lol

[nutella]

But like I don't mean I have eliminated Dyslexicon as a suspect. I absolutely haven't. I just find you more likely atm.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t know if I ever responded to that second quote, but the vagueness in my post there was that I figured MP was Gladys and had come out Day 3 swinging because he found you bad. Some things that changed my opinion:
1) earlier in the day, I learned that claiming was legal. Mp hadn’t claimed and I figured he was on to something. So for me to vote for you while still thinking you were good was something that I would only do if MP had a red check.
2) I forgot that Gladys didn’t have a 100% red check on someone, so as Mp was making his case, I started feeling less confident on his case, and since I figured you to already be a top civ read for me I changed my idea.
3) but he never claimed on d3 and so I started getting paranoid that he wasn’t Gladys at all and started looking at cracks in his intention, thinking maybe he was looking to mislynch you.

Also I’m sorry you’re vomiting. I’ll hold your hair

This is something I thought about as it occurred, but #2 rendered that moot. This is the problem. You're asking me to believe that you thought Gladys Campbell was an ordinary-ass cop. Given the Christian/dentist structure of the game which has been visible the entire time, that would have to mean that you either straight up didn't read the roles at all, or that you were ignorant to those separate civilian factions and the role of the dentist checker.

That's hard to believe. It's less hard to believe that you were prepared to capitalize on MP's folly and blame it on supposed role information.

"It's not what MP is saying but how he is saying it"

Hell, that in itself begs asking: what was it about MP's case, or how he said it, which separated it from any other case made in the Mafia game? Why was that case a cop-driven case?

This is all separate from the worst part of the incident: "I'd rather lynch Colin but..."

[nutella]

I don’t know if I ever responded to that second quote, but the vagueness in my post there was that I figured MP was Gladys and had come out Day 3 swinging because he found you bad. Some things that changed my opinion:
1) earlier in the day, I learned that claiming was legal. Mp hadn’t claimed and I figured he was on to something. So for me to vote for you while still thinking you were good was something that I would only do if MP had a red check.
2) I forgot that Gladys didn’t have a 100% red check on someone, so as Mp was making his case, I started feeling less confident on his case, and since I figured you to already be a top civ read for me I changed my idea.
3) but he never claimed on d3 and so I started getting paranoid that he wasn’t Gladys at all and started looking at cracks in his intention, thinking maybe he was looking to mislynch you.

Also I’m sorry you’re vomiting. I’ll hold your hair

This is something I thought about as it occurred, but #2 rendered that moot. This is the problem. You're asking me to believe that you thought Gladys Campbell was an ordinary-ass cop. Given the Christian/dentist structure of the game which has been visible the entire time, that would have to mean that you either straight up didn't read the roles at all, or that you were ignorant to those separate civilian factions and the role of the dentist checker.

That's hard to believe. It's less hard to believe that you were prepared to capitalize on MP's folly and blame it on supposed role information.

"It's not what MP is saying but how he is saying it"

Hell, that in itself begs asking: what was it about MP's case, or how he said it, which separated it from any other case made in the Mafia game? Why was that case a cop-driven case?

This is all separate from the worst part of the incident: "I'd rather lynch Colin but..."

Yeah I'm not really buying this defense for similar reasons. You forgot how the cop works even though if you're a civ you are aware of the christian/dentist thing? Nah man I think you forgot cause you're bad and decided to jump on MP's case and pretend later that you had reason to think it was info based, and when you realized that wouldn't actually hold water as a reason you backed down

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is among my least favorite moments in Dizzy's post history.

After spending Day 1 constantly poking Colin, their Night 1 read becomes this mild green middle thing in a rainbow that features seven reds. That's seven people rated worse than Colin in a game with only 13 non-Dizzy players alive at that point. That's hard to stomach.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dizzy suspicion of Colin

Cycle 1

Page 5-7

Maybe I used policy lynch incorrectly there, but it sounds like you're saying we should lynch people who haven't contributed at all as a Day 1 rule, Charlie.

Benefits would be not losing voices in a game that's having a tough time taking off and also, of course, there's nothing stopping a scum from just lurking at this point. Especially at this point, maybe.

What are your reads, hopes and dreams? At this point in the game you're reading more like a side commentator to me. And I've seen scum act that way before. I'm pointing fingers at you.

Pages 8-9

Yeah, having read the case against Jay, I don’t see anything I wouldn’t expect from his town behavior. I don’t see the case on Dizzy and I’d prefer not to vote Floyd, but between those two, if a replacement’s not happening I won’t lose sleep lynching someone not even in the thread.

Colini's posts reads like a scum player who wants to lynch the town player who deserves it the most.
^Someone talk to me about this.

What do you mean “deserves it the most”?

Being anti-town, not doing their job. Like, you're looking for town who can be reasonably blamed for getting lynched rather than looking for scum. Are you? ARE YOU???

I started playing around 10 or 11 years ago as a wee babe but I have played extremely inconsistently in that time. Dunno how many. I played on RYM in the old days with some of these folks. I used to want to be scum all the time but now I have a job and junk so it’s a lot harder to have fun that way.

Alright, thanks. So you have enough experience to know anti-town doesn't always equal scum. You voted Lapluie and said her behavior was not pro-town. Why not just say you think she's scum? This is why it looks like you're searching for town that it would make sense voting and it also reads like a guilty mindset.

Hey, engage with me all you want, I just think there are much better targets out there, and the fact that they're "easy" or whatever shouldn't stop us from considering them if they look scummy. Love that tiger stuff though!

This post does not ease my concerns. : p

I don't know you as a player, so it's hard for me to read you. I also am following the suspicions that makes sense to me, and that includes you now. I especially pursue this hunch cause nobody else is. Reading through you looked more controlled and aware than others. I think scum tends to look more like this than town. We'll see, I guess.

Cycle 2

None

Cycle 3

None, voiced trust of Colin

Cycle 4

I haven't read Jimmeey's cases yet. I will take time to respond to mine.

I think Nut comes across very good in interaction with Epi. Reading her town now. So thanks.
I actually think a lot of players comes across better. Epi and Jimmeeey at least. Though Epi's posts are still frustrating as fuck to read.
Scotty and Quin are both very much on the leaning town side in my mind. When I think about it I guess that is mostly intuition/tone, especially for Scotty.

I could find a reason to vote lapluie, Marmot or Colin. Colin maybe least of all those.

Taking a moment to say:

P L A Y E R

S A L A D

I’m not frustrated. I’m confident that I’ve got your number here.

I've an exercise for you.

~ If Marmot is a lying mafioso, who is his teammate?

~ If Marmot is being truthful, who are the two mafia?

I am not a “cart-before-horse” style player so I don’t hunt for teammates until I have one confirmed. And I don’t have time right now for a complete ISO but I did see interactions between he and Dizzy that felt strange on his end. I would have to do an analysis on Dizzy’s posts to guarantee that.

I don’t think Marmot is being truthful, but my bad feeling about lap persists (especially because the night and day difference I saw was actually a game where she was civ.)

If you're Keith Shover, you had one confirmed.

Wow, well fuck me. Fuck all this. That is good.

I have suspected Marmot the entire game since then, but I’ve been trying to avoid attracting his attention to a degree and I needed to find a way to get him and his teammates lynched without blowing my role. Obviously I failed

This checks out.

This is hard to believe.

I do agree with this though.

Dizzy's votes related to Colin

[VOTE: Colin
] aubergine
Even though he's cool and it doesn't matter right now.

The Choutas wagon was positioned already to rule the lynch when Dizzy placed this vote. The generic distancing Day 1 vote is as plausible here as Scotty's initial Choutas vote was.

[VOTE: Colin] aubergine

To be with the cool kids.

This was the last vote on the Colin wagon (5th of 5) on Day 4 after Marmot claimed Keith Shover and before Colin counterclaimed. That later became:

Colin, I don't think it would take Marmot much thought to understand you are Keith. You didn't hide well. : p

I believe Colin over Marmot. He immediately reacted negatively to the claim.

Also, I can read Marmot souls. I told you all.
[VOTE:
Marmot] aubergine

[VOTE: Colin
] aubergine
Fuck it

This came after I reverse the course of things back toward Colin when Marmot had the lead wagon.

[VOTE: Vote Marmot] aubergine

Final vote.

[nutella]

" Kind of purposfully exaggerated my read here to get something out of him. Haven't really made my mind up, but meh."

lol damn you're right that's gross. to be fair I town read Colin as well, but this phrasing is echhh

[nutella]

mmmmmmmm hmmmmm

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Concluding from the above:

Dizzy's pre-claims suspicion of Colin was entirely focused in Day 1. After that point, the read changes and stays changed until the claiming occurred. Dizzy asserted that the initial suspicion of Colin wasn't entirely real, or at least exaggerated. I have done things like that before myself, but I still cringe at the development particularly pertaining to the rainbow list I liked two posts ago. I don't think Dizzy's points against Colin on Day 1 were unreasonable, and as such I don't quite understand why they settled on a town read thereafter (until the claiming scenario forced a change).

[nutella]

Choutas and ColinIsCool

The amount of bantering and wifom is strong on day 1

Where do you see any WIFOM?

Where do you see any WIFOM?

By wifom i mean speculation. Stuff easily said but impossible to verify or discredit. Maybe thats not its true use.

Choutas made an arbitrary observation and Colin asked him to expand.

Also are the pages problematic when you reply by phone.
It gets chopped at the sides.

I’m not having trouble on Safari

Shrug.

Okay, so reads:

JJJ, MP seem town. I’ve explained why for JJJ but MP also feels earnest and interested in solving the game. Epi seems to be playing as I have always seen him (town) so I can get behind him for now too.

I liked the cases made earlier on lapluie, Eloh, and I understood J’s ire toward Dyslexicon so I guess those are the biggest suspects. Because Marmot made one of those cases (lapluie) I would townread him too.

Scotty feels different to me from AG, where he was town, but maybe I’m not accustomed to his playstyle in general. Wolbre is playing similar to what I’ve seen but people have asked good questions of him and I don’t think he really addressed them. Choutas, as others have said, flying so far below radar I forgot he was here — not good. Slight scum lean on gut or soul or whatever.

Floyd, nothing. Nova, really not sure. Everybody I didn’t talk about, idk.

The stance is proper. The word "slight" bugs me a bit, though I can't pretend that never happens in a civilian post.

I think there are better options than Choutas as I said, but I’d be fine with his lynch.

In a roundabout way this looks decent to me. If the lynch is going to happen, then a post like this does nothing to acquire civilian credit (something I'd expect a mafia Colin to do). There's WIFOM in that I grant. I'll need to double-check the poll status at this moment.

~~~

They could be teammates, but nothing here makes me think it's especially likely.

Colin's Day 1 vote: lapluie

Interactive rainbow:

Kylemii

Scotty
Quin
Dyslexicon
ColinIsCool

M Plus 7
wolbre07

Elohcin
Charlie Blackmon
lapluie
Marmot
novaselinenever
TheFloyd73

I thought Colin looked okay in his Choutas interactions, but I just double-checked them all and was a bit uneasy with him. A point I made in his favor demanded an infusion of WIFOM, so I recommend a dedicated review and interrogation.

I placed a gun to my head.

ColinIsCool - Civilian
Dyslexicon - Civilian
Elohcin - Mafia
Charlie Blackmon - Civilian
Kylemii - Civilian
lapluie - Civilian
M Plus 7 - Civilian
Marmot - Mafia
Quin - Mafia
Scotty - Civilian
wolbre04 - Mafia

I struggled more than I would like to find my gut read on Colin. He'll be one to investigate.

what's up with this saying you should reevaluate him and then... not doing so

[nutella]

Choutas and ColinIsCool

The amount of bantering and wifom is strong on day 1

Where do you see any WIFOM?

Where do you see any WIFOM?

By wifom i mean speculation. Stuff easily said but impossible to verify or discredit. Maybe thats not its true use.

Choutas made an arbitrary observation and Colin asked him to expand.

Also are the pages problematic when you reply by phone.
It gets chopped at the sides.

I’m not having trouble on Safari

Shrug.

Okay, so reads:

JJJ, MP seem town. I’ve explained why for JJJ but MP also feels earnest and interested in solving the game. Epi seems to be playing as I have always seen him (town) so I can get behind him for now too.

I liked the cases made earlier on lapluie, Eloh, and I understood J’s ire toward Dyslexicon so I guess those are the biggest suspects. Because Marmot made one of those cases (lapluie) I would townread him too.

Scotty feels different to me from AG, where he was town, but maybe I’m not accustomed to his playstyle in general. Wolbre is playing similar to what I’ve seen but people have asked good questions of him and I don’t think he really addressed them. Choutas, as others have said, flying so far below radar I forgot he was here — not good. Slight scum lean on gut or soul or whatever.

Floyd, nothing. Nova, really not sure. Everybody I didn’t talk about, idk.

The stance is proper. The word "slight" bugs me a bit, though I can't pretend that never happens in a civilian post.

I think there are better options than Choutas as I said, but I’d be fine with his lynch.

In a roundabout way this looks decent to me. If the lynch is going to happen, then a post like this does nothing to acquire civilian credit (something I'd expect a mafia Colin to do). There's WIFOM in that I grant. I'll need to double-check the poll status at this moment.

~~~

They could be teammates, but nothing here makes me think it's especially likely.

Colin's Day 1 vote: lapluie

Interactive rainbow:

Kylemii

Scotty
Quin
Dyslexicon
ColinIsCool

M Plus 7
wolbre07

Elohcin
Charlie Blackmon
lapluie
Marmot
novaselinenever
TheFloyd73

I thought Colin looked okay in his Choutas interactions, but I just double-checked them all and was a bit uneasy with him. A point I made in his favor demanded an infusion of WIFOM, so I recommend a dedicated review and interrogation.

I placed a gun to my head.

ColinIsCool - Civilian
Dyslexicon - Civilian
Elohcin - Mafia
Charlie Blackmon - Civilian
Kylemii - Civilian
lapluie - Civilian
M Plus 7 - Civilian
Marmot - Mafia
Quin - Mafia
Scotty - Civilian
wolbre04 - Mafia

I struggled more than I would like to find my gut read on Colin. He'll be one to investigate.

what's up with this saying you should reevaluate him and then... not doing so

[nutella]

whoops dunno how that double posted

[JaggedJimmyJay]

what's up with this saying you should reevaluate him and then... not doing so

A trip to California. All I was able to do for much of the second and third cycle was drop by and make off-hand comments. On Day 3 I alluded to my chief concern about Colin: that he was giving me too much slack, and that his defenses of me didn't look genuine. By Day 4 I'd returned home and was in a better position to dig.

[nutella]

I don’t know about Jay you guys. Would he make a legacy post that long, for the second time in the game, if he were scum? My instinct and knowledge of him as a player tells me he’d put the effort to try to frame somebody else instead or something.

This for example.

You’ve expressed unease about me given the way I play. That’s fine. Considering that though, I struggle to understand why my legacy posts, which were inspirational in nature and did not contain actual reads, would be sufficient to alleviate the tinfoil you otherwise tend to project about me. Within that framework this seems a tenuous defense of me.

Hmm ok
I guess just because it seems like, knowing you, you’ve said before that scum need to just be able to survive the noose right no matter what that’s their most important goal so I think with that in mind if you were scum you would be actively trying to do that in a different way like saying oh lynch this person instead here’s a big fucking case you know. Instead of being like ... yall if my ass gets murdered here are your instrucfions before leaving earth. I bet that doesnt make sense but thats the thinking. I mean you can do WIFOM but idk get that shit outta here

I understand what you are saying, and I will consider it. Your assertions about my likely behavior in a mafia mindset are probably close to accurate, for what it’s worth. I cram some fake b/s hunting in there instead of literally saying that I cannot properly hunt given the circumstances.

This interaction is a load of crap

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This interaction is a load of crap

I understand why you think so. It isn't though. I was considering both sides of the story and resisting the urge to tunnel.

[Scotty]

Wow, Quin posted a fitting summary of Mirroring Mandy’s posting patterns yesterday

Colin and Dizzy

Spoiler: show

Page 5-7

Maybe I used policy lynch incorrectly there, but it sounds like you're saying we should lynch people who haven't contributed at all as a Day 1 rule, Charlie.

Benefits would be not losing voices in a game that's having a tough time taking off and also, of course, there's nothing stopping a scum from just lurking at this point. Especially at this point, maybe.

What are your reads, hopes and dreams? At this point in the game you're reading more like a side commentator to me. And I've seen scum act that way before. I'm pointing fingers at you.

Pages 8-9

Yeah, having read the case against Jay, I don’t see anything I wouldn’t expect from his town behavior. I don’t see the case on Dizzy and I’d prefer not to vote Floyd, but between those two, if a replacement’s not happening I won’t lose sleep lynching someone not even in the thread.

Colini's posts reads like a scum player who wants to lynch the town player who deserves it the most.
^Someone talk to me about this.

When Dizzy was initially catching up with the game, he tossed some poop in Colin's direction. Both of these are extracted from larger multi-quoted posts.

What do you mean “deserves it the most”?

Being anti-town, not doing their job. Like, you're looking for town who can be reasonably blamed for getting lynched rather than looking for scum. Are you? ARE YOU???

Good eye, soldier.

Dizzy looked sternly at Colin on Day 1.

Well I mean ... you’re supposed to lynch anti-town players, aren’t you? That’s scum. So I guess I see what you’re saying but I find it pretty disagreeable as a stance.

What's your experience with mafia?

Dizzy asked Colin a few of these background check type questions.

[VOTE: Colin
] aubergine
Even though he's cool and it doesn't matter right now.

Then placed a vote.

Hey, engage with me all you want, I just think there are much better targets out there, and the fact that they're "easy" or whatever shouldn't stop us from considering them if they look scummy. Love that tiger stuff though!

This post does not ease my concerns. : p

I don't know you as a player, so it's hard for me to read you. I also am following the suspicions that makes sense to me, and that includes you now. I especially pursue this hunch cause nobody else is. Reading through you looked more controlled and aware than others. I think scum tends to look more like this than town. We'll see, I guess.

Dizzy didn't let go of this through Day 1, even as Choutas was lynched. I appreciate that Dizzy wasn't giving an inch in this conversation, and the above quote isn't the only example from this period.

On Night 1 Dizzy upgraded Colin to the light green tier, suggesting that the original suspicion was exaggerated. I'm not clear on why Colin deserved this position compared to the seven people who were placed below him in the red tier. Please expand on this, Dizzy.

Neutral chatter about the nova kill and wolbre.

I don’t quite understand the jump for Colin into civ territory and it looks like neither do you. Do you have a better idea of how that jumped?

And lol I’m “meh compared to last game”

I could be convinced that dys only had choutas on his belt pouch and not on his back because he suspected Colin more, and I could be convinced that that side eye to choutas was a slight distance in the case of this lynch happening as it did. But I’m in the camp that dys is good right now. Just curious of how hisnread of Colin has changed

Ima look at Colin next

In terms of suspicion, I thought Choutas was more suspicious by a good margin actually. But he was already getting lynched at that point. I focused my energy into a suspect that didn't have a lot of attention at him at the time. It's rather typical of me. Try to poke the potential scum overlooked if I can. Even if I exaggerated some of my concerns with Colins a bit to see how I felt, I still see a lot of stuff that points to town for him, and his tone is good, so it's more likely he's town is what I think right now. In terms of post lynch Colin had a post where he explicitly said he thught Choutas was not the best lynch target when it was clear Choutas was most likely the lynch. It would be a bit weird if they were teamed to say that. Does this make sense?

Dizzy expanded on his change of heart re: Colin at Scotty's request. The reasoning demands WIFOM, but it doesn't significantly bother me. I am more concerned that so many people were under Colin in the rainbow than I am about the color Colin was given.

~~~

Dizzy talked about Colin a shit load, so I am not going to discuss everything.

~~~

Being the generous type that I am, I'll just say Jimmeey, Kyle, MP and Colin for town.

Night 2 town read for Colin.

I think I'm back at Marmot, Epi and maybe Eloh as suspects. Quin is ugh.

Jimmeey, MP and Colin seems town. Scotty aslo seems town, though I haven't really been around at the same time with him so don't have a great feeling either way.

If I'm Gladys Campbell I got a negative result, which is unhelpful since there are more non-dentists than dentists left.

Reiterated on Day 3.

It's funny, cause I had a twinge of paranoia for you not being paranoid of me at all earlier. But this just feels weird. Both this, and what you said regarding "someone defending me may engage in TMI" looks to me like plain unsound reasoning that I don't expect you engaging in. So me and Colin defended you from MP's accusations. What's the point of stating that someone defending you may engage in TMI? Like, duh, if any of us are scum, yeah we are. It says nothing. It just creates doubt. Either you think I'm town/scum/unsure (same for Colin) or you don't. It's like both these arguments boils down to "if this person doing this thing is scum, then they are not doing it honestly". No shit, Sherlock.

Colin engaged in TMI. Did Dizzy do it too?

I think Colin is town now. Lalala

Lalala

I haven't read Jimmeey's cases yet. I will take time to respond to mine.

I think Nut comes across very good in interaction with Epi. Reading her town now. So thanks.
I actually think a lot of players comes across better. Epi and Jimmeeey at least. Though Epi's posts are still frustrating as fuck to read.
Scotty and Quin are both very much on the leaning town side in my mind. When I think about it I guess that is mostly intuition/tone, especially for Scotty.

I could find a reason to vote lapluie, Marmot or Colin. Colin maybe least of all those.

The honeymoon seems to be over on Day 4.

What? Why do people think I’m claiming Keith?

Gurl, you literally threw a brick wall of disbelief to Marmot's claim which was otherwise not disputed. And you wonder why people are prodding you to see if you are actually Keith and have definite knowledge? Gurl.

For the record: If anyone but Marmot is Keith they should definitely claim. If that was even a question.

Dizzy had a ton to say during the counterclaim saga, so I will try to limit my discussion to highlights. When Colin was incredulous about being associated with a counterclaim, Dizzy threw a brick at his face.

[VOTE: Colin] aubergine

To be with the cool kids.

This was a relatively late vote (I believe sixth) on the initial Colin wagon.

Colin, I don't think it would take Marmot much thought to understand you are Keith. You didn't hide well. : p

I believe Colin over Marmot. He immediately reacted negatively to the claim.

Also, I can read Marmot souls. I told you all.
[VOTE:
Marmot] aubergine

Dizzy moved back to Marmot after Colin officially counterclaimed. I can't blame 'em, I did the same thing.

Dizzy begins probing prior tallies for clues about teammates of Marmot. This isn't about Colin really, but I think it looks authentic.

I dislike Colin claiming and disappearing btw.

Ugh. Scum the lot of you.

At least he's getting ripped.

From this point, Dizzy was pretty negative in their assessment of both Marmot and Colin and swapped his vote both ways, which is easy to understand since both of them looked terrible. Dizzy elected to stay on Marmot in the end.

I think it’s Marmot. Final answer for me. You all do what you feel is right.

I couldn't fault Dizzy in the moment and I still don't. It was an extremely difficult choice.

Idk if I’m still allowed to post but I really hope you guys can pull through on this one. I’ll be watching

I won’t lose faith. Murp.

At this point the lynch was already finalized, but G-Man hadn't posted the results. I think it looks like Dizzy really does believe Colin will flip as Keith Shover.

~~~

On Day 1, Colin supported my suspicion of Dizzy.

I started playing around 10 or 11 years ago as a wee babe but I have played extremely inconsistently in that time. Dunno how many. I played on RYM in the old days with some of these folks. I used to want to be scum all the time but now I have a job and junk so it’s a lot harder to have fun that way.

Alright, thanks. So you have enough experience to know anti-town doesn't always equal scum. You voted Lapluie and said her behavior was not pro-town. Why not just say you think she's scum? This is why it looks like you're searching for town that it would make sense voting and it also reads like a guilty mindset.

I believe I did call lapluie scum? This feels like reaching tbh.

This feels indignant and unplanned, tbh.

Pale green things in Colin's Day 2 rainbow

Colin did an ISO on Dizzy, called a lot of their play "strange" or similar things, but still concluded "GOOD STUFF". That's odd.

On to finding the scum on Eloh's wagon then. It's not Dizzy.

If you think Marmot is town, why would scum necessarily be on Eloh's wagon? I've been thinking about this. So if Marmot is town, I don't think there would be much incentive for scum to mislynch Eloh over Marmot, quite the opposite. Eloh was not doing much or putting in much effort and not a hard mislynch (and unlikely to be in the future) imo. If Marmot is town, that is a more active presence and a "better mislynch" from a scum perspective. Obviously scum would want to vote either if their both town and it would depend on how they've already expressed suspicion. That said, I still think there's good chances Marmot is scum, in which case I'd say it's highly likely there's scum on Eloh's wagon. I guess I'm just wondering if you think there has to be scum on the wagon, or more so was thinking of doing voting analysis on the wagon to see if anything sticks out?

That’s all a pretty good point. If I had to guess I’d figure there’s scum on both, spreading themselves apart, but maybe that’s just my brain trying to get symmetry.

Colin informs us that the mafia are more likely to spread themselves between two prevailing wagons (in this case, Elohcin and Marmot). He can be believed or not, but I will try to remember to look into that. He's already shown a penchant for TMI.

Are you fucking kidding me

Can you please end my misery and tell me if you’re scum or not? I need to sleep.

It’s Marmot.

WIFOM burger about to served, but I think this looks decent for Dizzy. Colin was lynched at this point, but he still couldn't resist the opportunity to make Dizzy feel a little despair.

~~~~~

Conclusion

If I wanted to, I could pull a case against Dizzy out of this. There's a questionable progression from right to wrong to right to wrong through the course of the game. Still, I am not inclined to go there. It doesn't feel right, and I have an easier time seeing a Dizzy who is being an uncertain civilian and trying to sort a player out. I'll call this a slight net positive for Dizzy.

I wish I was one of those players who's like a dog with a bone. But I'm not. I'm a dog that had a bone once that he burried in the yard and now he forgot where he put it so he just barks. My initial suspicion of Colin was true and based on very overarching "what I know about the game mafia"-things. The language Colin used seemed to slip that he was outside of town. He also felt like an observer, which is more common for scum. These are pretty soft tells and I questioned how valid they were while engaging with Colin. Especially since I didn't know him, and I have a history of suspecting new players because they are unfamiliar with me. The reason I dropped it I think was because of how Colin acted around the choutas lynch. The rather apathetic "oh well" is something that in my experience is rather uncommon for scummates. Good on Colin for that reaction (imo). And I became way more interested in Marmot and also MP after that lynch. Sometimes I just more or less artificially decide that someone is town (or a different read) to try it on for size if that makes any sense. I wouldn't say my gut ever felt great about Colin (except the very last of D4 just because I had decided Marmot was the scum), but I didn't get the same suspicion after I decided that he probably just talked this way (coming across more distant (don't exactly know how to describe it)), which some players do. I also had read a game where he was scum and he was more careful and less active there I found. So all of that informed my thought process. But after the flip, all the little things that I reacted to throughout the game comes back and I'm disappointed that I dropped it because it's so typical me to do exactly that.

I don't think I could ever fake the state I was in at day end between Marmot and Colin. I was seriously riled up, especially since I had had the strongest gut suspicion towards both of these players throughout the game and I really wanted to get it right. I'm also sure that if I was scum with Colin I would go for the bussing when it was between the two of them anyway. If you can recall I did that with FZ. I also actually believed it was Marmot until I saw the flip (thought something about how the vote went down and teammate building made me have the feeling something was not right), but in the moment I thought it was Marmot. I don't know what else to say about that. All of my posts are genuine, and my mind goes many directions at once and sometimes I try things on more to try to get clearer myself. I don't think I'm all that good at translating what's going on in my head to the page. I hope this makes sense.

Dude yeah same. I think we had pretty similar experiences of yesterday and you ooze authenticity imo.

It's Quin. I'm sure of it now. Based on my pretty confident PoE of everyone else, plus his behavior around the lynch
/trying to get credit even though he knew his teammate wouldn't die.

Sorry Q, bussing just didn't work out for you in the end. Your Choutas looks kept you safe for a while but it's over now.

-agreement
-share similar experience
-deadset on Quin, “it’s over now”

Even though Night 4 brought this opinion:

@jay, I have you, Scotty, epi, and dizzy as town. That leaves quin. What more elaboration do you need on what PoE is?

I could entertain another look at Scotty just to be sure, I haven't looked deeply into whether there is a chance hes bad but if he is he has put on the best performance I have seen in recent memory. I'll look into his iso and Colin interactions when I have time but I doubt I'll find anything. Honestly at this point if it's not Quin I will shit a brick and eat it for breakfast.

Certainly not with that attitude.

I mean I will really look lol. I would just be very surprised.

@jay, I have you, Scotty, epi, and dizzy as town. That leaves quin. What more elaboration do you need on what PoE is?

I can't recall if you've addressed this, but Jay made a good point to me that we have one mislynch to spare, so if it isn't Quin, then who would you lynch?

I have addressed this, probably dizzy or mayyybse Scotty depending on what I find out in his iso later (don't have time now but will get to it this evening assuming I survive the night)

So before even looking, she’s sitting on me and dizzy being good, but has to venture out when someone asks her if Quin isn’t it, and she says -probably- dizzy and drunkenly proclaims mayyybse me depending on the upcoming iso.

This isn’t a huge surprise since she’s practically an Icyhot.

Mmmm I'm really enjoying the dirt you pulled up on Scotty there, Dizzy. The point about Eloh (connecting her to Colin and then lynching her first) was probably the most compelling, and his hard suspicion of Colin at the end of day 3 combined with how he handled day 4... yeah, I can definitely see him being bad now. I'll still do my own look through his ISO and see if I find anything else that jumps out, but I'm really liking your case and seriously reassessing whether I want to go for him or Quin. Yes I said I'd be surprised but I have to entertain the possibility he's fooled me.

-agreement
-relates to a few points
-sees the possibility of me being bad

To her credit, she does pull 2 quotes from my iso and has her own opinion on it, so it’s not all Mirroring Mandy.

Finished Scotty's iso and didn't find anything additional to point out other than what dizzy and I have already talked about. it's enough to make him my backup but for now I am still thinking it is most likely just quin.

Quin, what do you think of Scotty and Dizzy?

nutella, what do you think of Dizzy?

I feel pretty solid town on dizzy. From pure poe they are a distant third behind quin and Scotty.

Why RE: Dys?

Yes I agree with people a lot lmao that's how I play. In the last one though I do actually think I am saying something a bit different or at least more specific about Scotty. I am capable of having original thoughts sometimes

She’s at least conscious about it.


Here’s where I’m at and feeling- I’m starting to surrender to the fact that nutella just has an avid imagination and her reads just change on a dime. I read this as organic civ behavior early on and only here in the endgame have started looking at it as being opportunistic. It could be opportunistic, sure. But I feel like she’s picking up the most spiked egg nog on the table and drinking it in. It could very well be civ behavior and it’s just frustrating behavior because I’m on the receiving end at the moment.

I’m feeling more strongly for Dys right now but would like to nail this down

[nutella]

k I'm not going to quote the whole case but once again this feels strange to me -- on early day 4 when you do your exercise of casing every player, you put together a very long post about Colin and it looks to me like you note several suspicious behaviors, but once you finish the exercise he gets a pretty high place on your list with this description:

I struggled more than I expected to generate a case that I liked on this guy:

ColinIsCool

The case can be made, but it isn't one that fills me with inspiration. I thought it would fill me with inspiration.

~~~~~

this is a similar hedgeyness to what you expressed earlier in the game-- "a case could be made but it's not mindblowingly convincing so whatever"

"the game has ended and JaggedJimmyJay was the mafioso. how could we let him get away with doing this shit that would make him vomit if anyone else did it"

[nutella]

scotty pls join me in reviewing jay I am having a wild time

[Dyslexicon]

I'm going to catch up and do reading and stuff now.

I'm not voting Jimmey though. Where did that idea come from?

[nutella]

Screw it all

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Burn the witch

[nutella]

I'm going to catch up and do reading and stuff now.

I'm not voting Jimmey though. Where did that idea come from?

Dude PLEASE reconsider. Town tunneling isn't doing us any good at this stage of the game. Open your eyes to the possibility he has been taking us all for a ride.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

k I'm not going to quote the whole case but once again this feels strange to me -- on early day 4 when you do your exercise of casing every player, you put together a very long post about Colin and it looks to me like you note several suspicious behaviors, but once you finish the exercise he gets a pretty high place on your list with this description:

I struggled more than I expected to generate a case that I liked on this guy:

ColinIsCool

The case can be made, but it isn't one that fills me with inspiration. I thought it would fill me with inspiration.

~~~~~

this is a similar hedgeyness to what you expressed earlier in the game-- "a case could be made but it's not mindblowingly convincing so whatever"

"the game has ended and JaggedJimmyJay was the mafioso. how could we let him get away with doing this shit that would make him vomit if anyone else did it"

That's the challenge I have faced in this game. The case could be made, yes. It could also be made against nearly everyone. Before lapluie and Marmot claimed their roles, I had a serious shortage of people that I could confidently read as civilians -- and indeed, the ones who ended up "green" after that exercise are the same ones who ended up the primary focus in my POE work after Colin exposed.

I'll also state that given this framework, I had every reason to justify leaving Colin alone. I didn't do that though. I kept going, kept digging, and kept trying to find the course ahead. Because I didn't know it.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm going to catch up and do reading and stuff now.

I'm not voting Jimmey though. Where did that idea come from?

Dude PLEASE reconsider. Town tunneling isn't doing us any good at this stage of the game. Open your eyes to the possibility he has been taking us all for a ride.

That would be pretty cool.

[nutella]

I am feeling impulsive about this rn but I will put in some due diligence and do comparative reads of eviljay in phenon origins, mountains, maybe transistor or whatever else. I want this to be a smart decision

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Screw it all

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Burn the witch

Wrong vote, right look. I think you are sincere, and I want you to consider what you've done here for both of our sakes:

You assessed Quin. You didn't like it and wanted him dead. Then you assessed Scotty, you didn't like it, and you wanted him dead. Then you assessed Dizzy (or at least other people's assessments of Dizzy), and you found serious cause for suspicion. Then you assessed me, and you didn't like it, and now you want me dead.

I am not the most suspicious player in this game. I am just the one you checked last.

[nutella]

k I'm not going to quote the whole case but once again this feels strange to me -- on early day 4 when you do your exercise of casing every player, you put together a very long post about Colin and it looks to me like you note several suspicious behaviors, but once you finish the exercise he gets a pretty high place on your list with this description:

I struggled more than I expected to generate a case that I liked on this guy:

ColinIsCool

The case can be made, but it isn't one that fills me with inspiration. I thought it would fill me with inspiration.

~~~~~

this is a similar hedgeyness to what you expressed earlier in the game-- "a case could be made but it's not mindblowingly convincing so whatever"

"the game has ended and JaggedJimmyJay was the mafioso. how could we let him get away with doing this shit that would make him vomit if anyone else did it"

That's the challenge I have faced in this game. The case could be made, yes. It could also be made against nearly everyone. Before lapluie and Marmot claimed their roles, I had a serious shortage of people that I could confidently read as civilians -- and indeed, the ones who ended up "green" after that exercise are the same ones who ended up the primary focus in my POE work after Colin exposed.

I'll also state that given this framework, I had every reason to justify leaving Colin alone. I didn't do that though. I kept going, kept digging, and kept trying to find the course ahead. Because I didn't know it.

And yet you were just accusing Scotty of essentially the same thing re: pursuing colin

[nutella]

Screw it all

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Burn the witch

Wrong vote, right look. I think you are sincere, and I want you to consider what you've done here for both of our sakes:

You assessed Quin. You didn't like it and wanted him dead. Then you assessed Scotty, you didn't like it, and you wanted him dead. Then you assessed Dizzy (or at least other people's assessments of Dizzy), and you found serious cause for suspicion. Then you assessed me, and you didn't like it, and now you want me dead.

I am not the most suspicious player in this game. I am just the one you checked last.

Lol true true true. I'm afraid of making the wrong decision for exactly this reason. That's why I'm going to take my time and assess your baddie games for careful consideration

[Scotty]

Epi can’t really be serious in voting for JJJ, can he?

You can't really be serious that in LyLo, you're not even paying mind to the possibility that I should be lynched, can you?

The same goes for Dizzy two-fold. One thing I agree with Scotty about is that eliminating both nutella and I from the pool is both convenient and self-serving.

I’ve mulled it around, but jjj if you’re bad, then you bussed choutas and futzed with the Colin EoD when you didn’t have to. At this point, I’m going to throw in the towel if you’re bad. You’re working so hard to solve the game and it shows.

But for Dys to come into Day 5 with ‘jjj AND nut are civ as fuck’ is quite proclamatory. I agreed with her on you but nut’s explanation wasn’t fleshed out at all

[Scotty]

@mnutella, what do you think of Scotty's case against Dizzy?

He made a couple ok points so it's worth looking into, but at this point I could be more easily convinced that you are bad than that Dyslexicon is

Oh ffs

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My interactions with Colin are not pretty butterflies and pixie dust. If I were to remove myself from myself and do an interactive analysis of Colin and JJJ, I would find things worth questioning. That's just the truth. I acknowledge that.

And that's why I am baffled that two people are counting me out of the POE right now. Scotty hasn't worried about me in any serious capacity at all in this game. Dizzy's concerns have come in direct response to my own suspicions of them (I'm from another planet), and they dissipated soon thereafter. How the hell can I, or can anyone without special circumstances in their favor, be getting a free pass on Day 6 when the game will be decided on the lynch?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]nutella[/mention], Dizzy has removed you from the suspect pool as well. What do you think of that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And yet you were just accusing Scotty of essentially the same thing re: pursuing colin

I kicked Scotty's ass on Day 4.

[nutella]

nutella, Dizzy has removed you from the suspect pool as well. What do you think of that?

Unfounded I suppose, but less surprising coming from Dizzy specifically than from the average player

[Scotty]

How the hell am I supposed to respond to this jay? Your opinion of TMI is just me postulating

I don't build a case with the intent that "the accused can fairly respond" -- indeed they often cannot. I made very similar accusations against Colin, and right now I feel pretty justified in that. When you say you were/are "postulating", is that to say that you were considering the game state under the assumption that I am a civilian? That's fine, but what's missing is the reverse postulate that I am not.

I know you dipped your toes into the waters of JJJ suspicion, but those dips were so tiny and so brief as to be rendered irrelevant.

I don’t know if I just don’t understand what TMI is or you’re responding to something else. When I say I’m postulating I mean shit like “would a baddie do that” or “does this make nutella civ”. This wasn’t in response to postulating on your alignment.

Regardless, based on the thread I read you pretty consistently throughout the game as civ. And I would say it made me just as uncomfortable as you reading me as civ almost the entire game too.

You’re sure giving me a lot of outs to try and read you as bad today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lol true true true. I'm afraid of making the wrong decision for exactly this reason. That's why I'm going to take my time and assess your baddie games for careful consideration

I'm going to give you my own meta as of June 2018. You can take it or leave it, but it's true:

Civilian JJJ:
- Thorough, incisive, aggressive, obsessive
- Facilitates activity with accusations and questions galore
- Posts come in rapid-fire sequence, I deliberately seek out live conversation
- Careless about interactions or their appearance
- Tons of big posts

Mafia JJJ
- Thorough, reactive, careful, emotionless
- Pretends to facilitate activity by calling for more activity
- Avoids live conversation in favor of detached judgment and analysis
- Meticulous about interactions with both teammates and civilians (I wrote the book on interaction analysis)
- Tons of big posts

[nutella]

God you're so pretentious lmao

[nutella]

Anyway I don't think that helped, I can see both roughly equally

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t know if I just don’t understand what TMI is or you’re responding to something else. When I say I’m postulating I mean shit like “would a baddie do that” or “does this make nutella civ”. This wasn’t in response to postulating on your alignment.

My meaning was given a definition of "postulate" [suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.]

This is a semantic notion and not especially important.

When I suspect that TMI has happened in this case, it means that I suspect you've known I am a civilian all along and have tried to position yourself well in the event that I am mislynched (Day 1 when I had a 4-vote wagon, and later when MP was hounding me). No mafioso wants to be associated with that. I thought Colin was doing the same thing.

You’re sure giving me a lot of outs to try and read you as bad today.

I don't know what this means. What does this mean?

[Scotty]

Like actually I slept on it and the more I think about it the more I can see it (Evil Jay). For one thing he has spent a large portion of the game constantly demanding PoE pools from everyone-- could he have been ensuring that he was in few enough of them that his plan would work, the plan being to vote for and reveal Colin on day 4 and then mislynching two civs from the PoE earning him the victory? Fuck man, we might be getting well and truly hoodwinked here. Scotty whaddaya think

Can you first respond to which points in my Dys case you liked?

Let’s break down a baddie JJJ in this game:
-Calls out his baddie partner for being suspicious even with posts bereft of discernible content. Ok. I can see a narrative.
-Still doesn’t get the full civ status he thinks he deserves in days 2 and 3, steps back from the thread a bit in day 4
-Colin is under fire on day 4, is Super engaged with the heartbeat of the thread, like a surgeon with a scalpel, gets a read from everyone during the “claimgate”. Shows interest in both sides of the marmot/Colin debate, but shifts back to Colin when votes were seemingly going in marmot’s favor.

Ok, this is the tinfoil part. Did a bad JJJ see the writing on the wall and determine that if he didn’t mount a campaign against Colin, after the marmot mislynch he would be a huge candidate for colin’s teammate? This would gain him large civ cred to ride all the way to endgame.

But that’s like 5D chess, because we didn’t know Colin was gonna be bad. The entire crux of jjj being bad stems from that D4. Because if he had just let marmot get lynched, it’s 9 v 2. On day 5 it would be 8 v 2, and then we most definitely would have lynched Colin and be 7 v 2 going into today.

Hmmm now that I’ve typed that out, it’s a math game at day 6 in that alternate scenario because a bad jjj would be far more vulnerable if he hadn’t done what he did. A bad jjj in the current world, bussing Colin and turning the tide back to him ensures that he won’t be looked at if he can find some patsies.



whyaretheresomanypossibilitiesatendgame

[JaggedJimmyJay]

God you're so pretentious lmao

For a little bonus conceit:

I think one of my best skills as an evildoer is to almost but not quite lynch my teammates. In Transistor, with the help of MP and a few poor civilians, we crafted a poll on Day 1 which ensured Elohcin (my teammate) would fall exactly one vote short of the tally lead (6-5). That way, when she actually was lynched, everyone could point back to Day 1 when golly gorsh JJJ tried to lynch her.

Dizzy and I were very successful doing the same thing in Currents with FZ. She was almost lynched once or twice before the day she faked cop.

On this Day 1, I didn't almost lynch Choutas. I burned him at the stake. I deprived him of his life.

[nutella]

God you're so pretentious lmao

For a little bonus conceit:

I think one of my best skills as an evildoer is to almost but not quite lynch my teammates. In Transistor, with the help of MP and a few poor civilians, we crafted a poll on Day 1 which ensured Elohcin (my teammate) would fall exactly one vote short of the tally lead (6-5). That way, when she actually was lynched, everyone could point back to Day 1 when golly gorsh JJJ tried to lynch her.

Dizzy and I were very successful doing the same thing in Currents with FZ. She was almost lynched once or twice before the day she faked cop.

On this Day 1, I didn't almost lynch Choutas. I burned him at the stake. I deprived him of his life.

Cool.