Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[Quin]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

rude

I got a neat PM last night telling me that you and sig are unaligned.

Shouldn't we be lynching people who are aligned with the paradox police?

Unless we have secret factions then one of them is aligned with the paradox police. No?

[Quin]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

[Golden]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

rude

I got a neat PM last night telling me that you and sig are unaligned.

Shouldn't we be lynching people who are aligned with the paradox police?

Unless we have secret factions then one of them is aligned with the paradox police. No?

I'd assume unaligned means they have no alignment, not they aren't aligned with each other.

[Quin]

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

rude

I got a neat PM last night telling me that you and sig are unaligned.

Shouldn't we be lynching people who are aligned with the paradox police?

Unless we have secret factions then one of them is aligned with the paradox police. No?

I'd assume unaligned means they have no alignment, not they aren't aligned with each other.

So that would make them independent, but the host post doesn't confirm their existence.

[Golden]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

[Quin]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

[insertnamehere]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

Well, didn't you say that you checked his role, and that he was a civilian last night?

So, now Quin gets to pressure me to roleclaim, and threatens me with a lynch if I don't.

What Quin's doing to me now qualifies as "blackmail" waaaaay more than what I did to Scotty.

[Quin]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

Well, didn't you say that you checked his role, and that he was a civilian last night?

So, now Quin gets to pressure me to roleclaim, and threatens me with a lynch if I don't.

What Quin's doing to me now qualifies as "blackmail" waaaaay more than what I did to Scotty.

Why should I care about your role? Scum gets fakeclaims.

[Quin]

I'm currently thinking about a sig/Golden team.

[Quin]

[mention]Kylemii[/mention] stop playing rimworld and come talk to me

[insertnamehere]

I thought Scotty's D1 voting pattern was weird and suspicious enough for me to vote for him, however, if he later went against what made me suspicious, I was open to changing it to someone else.

Quin is trying to put me in a situation where I either post the details of my role, proving that I'm not a threat to the civilians, or he's gonna make me look like a confirmed baddie, and serve my head on a platter.

But apparently the first is malevolent blackmail, and the second is okay, kosher civ behavior.


Linki:

Why should I care about your role? Scum gets fakeclaims.

What? I thought fake-claims were more character based. Like, if everyone said the name of their role, and three of the names were obvious bad guys in time-travel related tales, then fakeclaims would allow them to at least appear as simpatico, non-enemy sounding roles. That's how I used them in the games I've hosted. I'm not familiar with fake-claims including fake abilities.

Well, what the fuck do you want from me, Quin? If literally nothing I can say about myself or my role could change anything, fuck it.

Might as well ignore you then.

[Golden]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

What do you mean I 'lynch quin instead'.

You could be a baddie making shit up for all I know. You could be a cop.

I'm asking you if your sources are good and you won't even answer so far as to say 'yes, I can't see how my sources could go wrong'.

To me, that's disturbing. If I got the PM you claim you got, the first question I'd be asking is 'is this reliable information'. Have you asked that question?

[Golden]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

Well, didn't you say that you checked his role, and that he was a civilian last night?

So, now Quin gets to pressure me to roleclaim, and threatens me with a lynch if I don't.

What Quin's doing to me now qualifies as "blackmail" waaaaay more than what I did to Scotty.

SCOTTY is town.

I dunno what sig is. But I came into today with a townish read on both you and sig. GTH though, I'd say you were bad before sig.

I did beseech people to give the quill to scotty instead of sig though. Because I know scotty is good.

[Golden]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

Well, didn't you say that you checked his role, and that he was a civilian last night?

So, now Quin gets to pressure me to roleclaim, and threatens me with a lynch if I don't.

What Quin's doing to me now qualifies as "blackmail" waaaaay more than what I did to Scotty.

What specifically did he do to pressure you to roleclaim? I missed this.

[Kylemii]

Kylemii stop playing rimworld and come talk to me

im playing pokemon

[Kylemii]

ok so what are the proposed facts involved here?

quin says mechanically that sig and inh are not teammates

golden says mechanically or (spiritually?) that sig is not mafia

also inh is claiming that quin is pressuring him into roleclaiming, for some reason?

is this much correct?

[Quin]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

What do you mean I 'lynch quin instead'.

You could be a baddie making shit up for all I know. You could be a cop.

I'm asking you if your sources are good and you won't even answer so far as to say 'yes, I can't see how my sources could go wrong'.

To me, that's disturbing. If I got the PM you claim you got, the first question I'd be asking is 'is this reliable information'. Have you asked that question?

How do you suppose I qualify it?

[Golden]

I HAVE NEVER SAID MECHANICALLY THAT SIG IS NOT MAFIA

SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY

[Quin]

I thought Scotty's D1 voting pattern was weird and suspicious enough for me to vote for him, however, if he later went against what made me suspicious, I was open to changing it to someone else.

Quin is trying to put me in a situation where I either post the details of my role, proving that I'm not a threat to the civilians, or he's gonna make me look like a confirmed baddie, and serve my head on a platter.

But apparently the first is malevolent blackmail, and the second is okay, kosher civ behavior.


Linki:

Why should I care about your role? Scum gets fakeclaims.

What? I thought fake-claims were more character based. Like, if everyone said the name of their role, and three of the names were obvious bad guys in time-travel related tales, then fakeclaims would allow them to at least appear as simpatico, non-enemy sounding roles. That's how I used them in the games I've hosted. I'm not familiar with fake-claims including fake abilities.

Well, what the fuck do you want from me, Quin? If literally nothing I can say about myself or my role could change anything, fuck it.

Might as well ignore you then.

I'm only talking about the "blackmail" bit. I don't want a role claim, and I'm not sold on lynching you.

[Golden]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

What do you mean I 'lynch quin instead'.

You could be a baddie making shit up for all I know. You could be a cop.

I'm asking you if your sources are good and you won't even answer so far as to say 'yes, I can't see how my sources could go wrong'.

To me, that's disturbing. If I got the PM you claim you got, the first question I'd be asking is 'is this reliable information'. Have you asked that question?

How do you suppose I qualify it?

I mean, it seems to me at this point that essentially what you're saying is 'I got this through exercise of my role power so it's reliable, but I don't want to say that'.

But if you got it as the result of someone elses night power or you don't know why you got it, you should be honest about it's fallibility. If it's infallible, then say so. I got something that I don't know why I got it, although it's far more useless.

Put some kind of measure of your own certainty around this.

[Quin]

I HAVE NEVER SAID MECHANICALLY THAT SIG IS NOT MAFIA

SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY

tbh i thought you were talking about sig too but i don't know who you voted last night

[Golden]

I HAVE NEVER SAID MECHANICALLY THAT SIG IS NOT MAFIA

SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY

tbh i thought you were talking about sig too but i don't know who you voted last night

I voted myself in the end

[Quin]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

What do you mean I 'lynch quin instead'.

You could be a baddie making shit up for all I know. You could be a cop.

I'm asking you if your sources are good and you won't even answer so far as to say 'yes, I can't see how my sources could go wrong'.

To me, that's disturbing. If I got the PM you claim you got, the first question I'd be asking is 'is this reliable information'. Have you asked that question?

How do you suppose I qualify it?

I mean, it seems to me at this point that essentially what you're saying is 'I got this through exercise of my role power so it's reliable, but I don't want to say that'.

But if you got it as the result of someone elses night power or you don't know why you got it, you should be honest about it's fallibility. If it's infallible, then say so. I got something that I don't know why I got it, although it's far more useless.

Put some kind of measure of your own certainty around this.

Okay. It's a Quin 100%.

[Quin]

I HAVE NEVER SAID MECHANICALLY THAT SIG IS NOT MAFIA

SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY

tbh i thought you were talking about sig too but i don't know who you voted last night

this is why i asked you about your read on sig as well actually lmao

[insertnamehere]

Golden

How confident are you that sig is town?

Not particularly confident, but he does have that town feel to him.

Well, didn't you say that you checked his role, and that he was a civilian last night?

So, now Quin gets to pressure me to roleclaim, and threatens me with a lynch if I don't.

What Quin's doing to me now qualifies as "blackmail" waaaaay more than what I did to Scotty.

What specifically did he do to pressure you to roleclaim? I missed this.

I made the same mistake as Kyle and Quin, and thought you were talking about Sig instead of Scotty.

[Golden]

OK. And you are certain that is does not mean 'they have no alignment'?

In that case, there are a couple of practical problems here.

1) Because we don't get flips, we won't know if we are right the first time. The end result if we follow this to your logical conclusion is that we would be forced to lynch both of them, even if we get the baddie first. I don't love this, because it gives whichever would be good no path out, and that's just kind of sucky. Thoughts?

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

[Golden]

I HAVE NEVER SAID MECHANICALLY THAT SIG IS NOT MAFIA

SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY
SCOTTY

tbh i thought you were talking about sig too but i don't know who you voted last night

this is why i asked you about your read on sig as well actually lmao

My read on sig is just a read. I judge sig's town game by Violet in Unfortunate Events and he has a bit of that going on.

[Golden]

It's not that hard to tell them apart

Scotty is the one with all the autocorrect fails
Dog is the one who always gets lynched

[Quin]

OK. And you are certain that is does not mean 'they have no alignment'?

In that case, there are a couple of practical problems here.

1) Because we don't get flips, we won't know if we are right the first time. The end result if we follow this to your logical conclusion is that we would be forced to lynch both of them, even if we get the baddie first. I don't love this, because it gives whichever would be good no path out, and that's just kind of sucky. Thoughts?

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

I believe that we have no independents right now. Fair point on the course of action. Maybe we have a mortician-type role or something that could help with that.

[Quin]

It's not that hard to tell them apart

Scotty is the one with all the autocorrect fails
Dog is the one who always gets lynched

[Kylemii]

I believe that we have no independents right now.

plz expand on this point of view?

[Kylemii]

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

also you

[Kylemii]

i think we might have indies in the mix but im curious about ur thoughts on the matter

[Golden]

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

also you

What in the rules suggests there isn't?

Independent isn't exactly a 'faction' and there's no reason to presume they'd be called out expressly. The role guarantees specifically exclude 'cults', a specific form of independent role, but not independents generally.

I don't know there is, either, but I just have no good reason to rule it out.

[Kylemii]

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

also you

What in the rules suggests there isn't?

Independent isn't exactly a 'faction' and there's no reason to presume they'd be called out expressly. The role guarantees specifically exclude 'cults', a specific form of independent role, but not independents generally.

I don't know there is, either, but I just have no good reason to rule it out.

yeah I'm thinking there's probably some rogues.

a wildboy like speeedchuck isn't gonna make a big convoluted game about time travel and think to himself "yes this is good, let's keep all of the alignments nice and traditional"

[Scotty]

Too tired to do stuff. Sorry I never voted, I caught up but an going to bed cuz I’m a tired bear

Gonna drop a [VOTE: Colin] aubergine before I do, will have more input tkmorrow

[Quin]

I believe that we have no independents right now.

plz expand on this point of view?

chucky lists the factions on the OP. It's possible that there's a secret faction of some sort in the game but I have no reason to believe in it.

[Golden]

I believe that we have no independents right now.

plz expand on this point of view?

chucky lists the factions on the OP. It's possible that there's a secret faction of some sort in the game but I have no reason to believe in it.

Why is independent a "faction"? Why do you think those faction names are listed when we already know there is town and mafia?

[Quin]

I believe that we have no independents right now.

plz expand on this point of view?

chucky lists the factions on the OP. It's possible that there's a secret faction of some sort in the game but I have no reason to believe in it.

Why is independent a "faction"? Why do you think those faction names are listed when we already know there is town and mafia?

Independents are always a faction. An "independent" faction. I've always seen them that way, personally.

I think we just have incompatible opinions on the matter.

[MacDougall]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

Still betting on being right about sig. You will find INH ajd sig were on opposite ends of my last read list. It would be strange for me to be double incorrect in 180 degrees.

[MacDougall]

I'm currently thinking about a sig/Golden team.

Now we talkin.

[Quin]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

Still betting on being right about sig. You will find INH ajd sig were on opposite ends of my last read list. It would be strange for me to be double incorrect in 180 degrees.

wow mac i always knew you were good at mafia but i never knew you were this good

[MacDougall]

ok so what are the proposed facts involved here?

quin says mechanically that sig and inh are not teammates

golden says mechanically or (spiritually?) that sig is not mafia

also inh is claiming that quin is pressuring him into roleclaiming, for some reason?

is this much correct?

You and I should form the Alliance of the Uninformed with Spacedaisy. What say you?

[MacDougall]

And did you get that PM from a reputable source?

I am responding to you to let you know that I am going to ignore this question.

I think ignoring this is a bad look. It's pretty much the most fundamental question.

I give you a confirmed scum between sig and INH and you lynch Quin instead? Weird. I could be a cop for all you know.

Still betting on being right about sig. You will find INH ajd sig were on opposite ends of my last read list. It would be strange for me to be double incorrect in 180 degrees.

wow mac i always knew you were good at mafia but i never knew you were this good

Lol ouch

[MacDougall]

Golden is lawyering hard on page 20 y'all. All about that interpretation and clause, no room for creativity, what do the words say.

[Golden]

Golden is lawyering hard on page 20 y'all. All about that interpretation and clause, no room for creativity, what do the words say.

I think you'll find Quin is lawyering a clear answer and I'm the one leaving open the possibility that the words don't tell us everything.

[MacDougall]

I think given Quin has apparently got some role that allows him to check if two players are aligned, and he saw fit to infodump it on day 2, that he is pretty confident it won't result in his demise which as per my reaction what Golden did confuses me greatly and makes me feel even more uninformed, but given one is the person day one me was most confident was bad and the other is the person day one me was most confident was town I'm going to be leaving my vote on sig all damn day and nobody is going to tell me otherwise.

[Quin]

Golden is lawyering hard on page 20 y'all. All about that interpretation and clause, no room for creativity, what do the words say.

I think you'll find Quin is lawyering a clear answer and I'm the one leaving open the possibility that the words don't tell us everything.

I think you want me to be wrong.

[MacDougall]

Golden is lawyering hard on page 20 y'all. All about that interpretation and clause, no room for creativity, what do the words say.

I think you'll find Quin is lawyering a clear answer and I'm the one leaving open the possibility that the words don't tell us everything.

I am referring to the fact that he said he received a PM and you are presuming that means he received a random PM and he wasn't just describing the act of receiving a PM from the mod as a result of his night action request.

[Golden]

I think given Quin has apparently got some role that allows him to check if two players are aligned, and he saw fit to infodump it on day 2, that he is pretty confident it won't result in his demise which as per my reaction what Golden did confuses me greatly and makes me feel even more uninformed, but given one is the person day one me was most confident was bad and the other is the person day one me was most confident was town I'm going to be leaving my vote on sig all damn day and nobody is going to tell me otherwise.

Losing is worse than having a demise.

There's nothing about what I did that you are uninformed about. You have all the same information as me, I think I even told you exactly what my role was called (that was 'searcher' if I didn't).

I don't understand your aversion to being open about information that can help the town win.