Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[Epignosis]

Can't help you there. I already said what I was, and Jesus wasn't it.

[ColinIsCool]

Kyle dig:

if it's between scotty and zeph I think I'm more comfortable with a zeph lynch

If Zephyrus is scum, Kyle probably isn't on his team. This post could easily have just said the opposite conclusion, as no reason is given, but it points you, dear reader, into associating Zeph with scum more, so why not just say Scotty?

@Turnip Head are you claiming indie

If Kyle is telling the truth about everything involving TH, why does he need to misrepresent his knowledge in the thread? Why does he need to comment on it at all?

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

Again (and a few other times in his ISO — see for yourself) Kyle delays informing the town about him and TH, to TH's benefit. Quin has already gone around dumping alleged alignments, Golden has already done the same for Scotty, why not just come out with what you've got the instant someone wants to get rid of TH? Why go to the effort of this post? And subsequently: why reverse the tack you're taking through logic and just infodump when you do?

counterpoint?

it's weird as hell to put an indie and civ randomly in btsc together, like the btsc isn't even what my role is about, it doesn't have anything to do with TH's role either apparently, it seems to just be a thing that happened cus our characters are both grumpy dudes.

but like,.... if turnip head is telling the truth about his role and wincon then this is an odd choice for a masonic group, it's not as helpful as a true masonry but it's not as dangerous as a true mixmason either, it's just me kinda using Turniphead as a sounding board for ideas and crazy theories like about how maybe everyone else is paired off into masons too and talking about our favorite breakfast cereals.

it's kinda great actually

This mechanic-based defense reminds me a lot of Kyle's attempts at a mechanic-based offense against juliets (town) in U-Pick. I admit it's not the strongest comparison but that's immediately where my mind went.

I see what golden is seeing in lunalee, if sig was mafia then luna makes sense as a teammate

I don't agree with her meta defense, if she were teammates with sig then she would still have to respond to the sig quin inh thing in some way, it was the main topic of conversation for a big chunk of time. avoiding discussing it completely would be weird.

im also realizing i skipped reading like 6 or 7 pages of content at some point whoops

If Lunalee is scum, Kyle probably looks better here as far as being her teammate goes. Again, picking apart the logic of the argument in a way that doesn't feel compatible.

I don't understand Kyle's early interactions with TH/his indieness in the thread w/r/t what we know about him now. I think he has some explaining to do and it's possible that there is more sinister collusion going on between the two as I've argued elsewhere.

[ColinIsCool]

The reason I haven't been much with engaging with you colin was that I was aiming to draw the kill last night.

It didn't matter if it was you and you felt you need to pick me or someone else trying to set you up. Either way, making it as clear as possible I had no interest in engaging with you furthered that goal.

I nearly switched who I watched to Quin when he claimed, and I should have... I was 50/50... but I thought the growing number of things I seemed to know beyond my claimed role might draw fear.

... so you're a watcher now too?

Is there anything you can't do?

[ColinIsCool]

I should mention that, in general, Kyle seems to be engaged with the thread but he is along the same lines of lap as not saying too much outside of the TH fiasco. He is one to watch.

[Golden]

The reason I haven't been much with engaging with you colin was that I was aiming to draw the kill last night.

It didn't matter if it was you and you felt you need to pick me or someone else trying to set you up. Either way, making it as clear as possible I had no interest in engaging with you furthered that goal.

I nearly switched who I watched to Quin when he claimed, and I should have... I was 50/50... but I thought the growing number of things I seemed to know beyond my claimed role might draw fear.

... so you're a watcher now too?

Is there anything you can't do?

I'm not a watcher

[Golden]

voted sig, he's still my favoured vote right now.

[Epignosis]

I'm a doctor.

[sprityo]

I'm a doctor.

here we go again

[sprityo]

Golden can you simply put to me how you and scotty can both be town?

like i was reading what you were telling kyle but im unable to get a wrap around it


is it coming down to that if a role was made for another, why make them different alignments? as a host i would honestly think that's the absolute worst mechanic to have, especially if i allow open role claiming. i would at least make sure that there we some consequences to claiming outside of the mafia being able to pick and choose semi-randomly.

[Golden]

Would you say town masons are so overpowerful youcoukd never have them, sprit? Because my role is less powerful than that - it’s like a mason with no btsc and where I have to find the other person first.

[sprityo]

I dont trust Sig, but his presence at least is better for gamesolving than Lapluie. I want to see him turn this whole kerfuffle around.

Plus i mean, >33 posts. come on fam it's the heat of the game now, gotta stepp it up

[VOTE: Lapluie] aubergine

(im also fine voting TH because yknow, he's an untrustworthy independent)


linki: so like one of those if you find the person you gain btsc type of deals?

then you have btsc now because youve known about scotty for a few days right?

[Golden]

No we don’t even get btsc. All I get is knowing scotty is that role.

[nutella]

[ColinIsCool]

Mac-dig-all:

Mac's style can be (lovingly) described as throwing shit against the wall, but the thing about it is that it strikes me as very genuine. He has consistently been a townread for me in this game by looking like he has in previous games on this site where I knew he was town, so I want to see if that holds up.

Lynch sig please.

If sig is bad, Mac is probably not his teammate, considering he follows this up five minutes later with the same exact post almost verbatim, and continues to go after sig more forcefully than anyone else had at this point. There is a lot of him going after sig here, so figure out your read on sig and adjust accordingly.

Don't know if it's meaningful to the game but I disagree with this so much. I have bluntly defended my teammates in almost every scum game I've played and my team's almost always win. Ultimately I find that uninformed players are suggestible so just telling them things are as they are tends to work on the vast majority of players.

To keep in mind. He also goes hard, HARD, after Turnip Head and Spacedaisy, so if either of them are scum, he is not on their team, if this is true.

For those who are ignoring Golden's Luna case like I was, upon reading it it's actually sum gud werk.

Aaaand if Lunalee is bad, Mac is probably not on her team. He isn't afraid to argue against other loud voices, that much is certain, and he's capable of it too — but he just says "yep, I agree" and moves on.

Interesting. Sig's probably not bad you guys.

Why are you persuaded by that post?

It's a hell of a fairy tale to make up. I tend to think he's just telling the truth. If he is, that role has fuck all utility as scum compared to what it does as town.

This is a pretty severe reversal from where Mac was at previously. I'll admit that sig's story gave me pause, but I think Mac, if he's being honest, is not being as razor-sharp as he can be with sig's story. If he is teammates with scum-sig, then there are some fucking gambits going on of the hugely, hugely complicated "get intentionally bussed then brought back then win over" variety, AKA the kind of thing people tinfoil about in games as town but which have never actually happened.

My biggest hesitation with Mac that I can't quote in one post is that he offers a looooot of different reads at different times, and that always seems pingy to me — death by confusion, from the mafia. But even as I say that there is a consistency to most of what he says and I find myself nodding along with his logic more than I have with probably anybody else in the game.

[sprityo]

to answer your question, masons are fine, especially variants of masons.

like one is bad one is good, a mason that can recruit is mason buddy on night one. roles that tie themselves to another like Lover, or Seamstress.

what im getting at is like do you have in writing from the host, that you can trust scotty 100%?

like even in FE Mafia, epi questioned me basically until he died because he couldnt confirm if i was bad or not. (we were both town in the end) buthe would tell me frequently how he feels alright about my allegiance because the the chatroom setting we had

linki: that you know his role or role flavor?

[sprityo]

does anyone see my rationale or am i preaching to the choir?

[Golden]

linki: that you know his role or role flavor?

Like sprit everyone is asking the same questions over and over.

WE ARE A PAIR.

That's the answer to your question. I am 100% certain he is town.

[Kylemii]

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] what would have been the purpose in revealing mine and turnip head's masonship? he provided an easily verifiable claim, i didn't need anyone else's help to test it and if he was lying and killed me before I could speak the relevant information I could just leak the information through the ghost myspace information super highway. plus if he was mafia and hoping to use me to gain some kind of credit or something, revealing anything he'd said in the thread would only give incentive to kill me, and devoid of anything else, indie reveals always attract the kinds of people who hear indie and panic even though the game is about lynching mafia, who probably half the time are actually just mafia trying to use Indies as a distraction.

plus it would have been kinda rude.

[Kylemii]

@Turnip Head are you claiming indie

If Kyle is telling the truth about everything involving TH, why does he need to misrepresent his knowledge in the thread? Why does he need to comment on it at all?

"misinterpret"

dislike. turnip head's wording was ambiguous, my question was a push for him to be more direct.

[ColinIsCool]

Quin dig:

I have already spoken pretty much all I can on why, pre-this, I don't see Quin as a suspect. The gambit, if it is a gambit, makes no damn sense for a scum to do. Onwards.

OK. And you are certain that is does not mean 'they have no alignment'?

In that case, there are a couple of practical problems here.

1) Because we don't get flips, we won't know if we are right the first time. The end result if we follow this to your logical conclusion is that we would be forced to lynch both of them, even if we get the baddie first. I don't love this, because it gives whichever would be good no path out, and that's just kind of sucky. Thoughts?

2) I'm not convinced that we know that this game has no independents.

I believe that we have no independents right now. Fair point on the course of action. Maybe we have a mortician-type role or something that could help with that.

Kind of wondering why he qualified this as "right now" but he could just mean "from my perspective, I don't believe this right now," not "there aren't any yet" as I interpret it.

We should lynch sig today to avoid this whole Day 3/Day 4 whatever the fuck he's spewing. He's also the worst looking of the two.

Leave INH alive until Day 4. This is important. Please.

On that though, If Luna is a civilian and thinks sig is scum, it makes sense that she wouldn't be flipping tables over it. Because to do so would be like disregarding her own opinion on the matter.

This is a fair point, imo, but worth nothing that he is pretty against the whole lynch the entire day. He even solicits other options from other players. That to me looks like he's trying to vote for somebody, anybody, so long as he can avoid having the first word on it and thus the blame. Likewise, it also absolves him of credit. He reverses on Luna anyway when she has the cop fakeclaim, but at that point, wouldn't you? There's no conclusion to this paragraph, I'm realizing. Just a lot of shit. It's going to keep going. I really don't think Quin is scum like I said so I'm finding it hard to entertain that notion even as an exercise.

[Golden]

Why are you entertaining the notion even as an exercise when Quin claimed cop and immediately was killed for it?

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool what would have been the purpose in revealing mine and turnip head's masonship? he provided an easily verifiable claim, i didn't need anyone else's help to test it and if he was lying and killed me before I could speak the relevant information I could just leak the information through the ghost myspace information super highway. plus if he was mafia and hoping to use me to gain some kind of credit or something, revealing anything he'd said in the thread would only give incentive to kill me, and devoid of anything else, indie reveals always attract the kinds of people who hear indie and panic even though the game is about lynching mafia, who probably half the time are actually just mafia trying to use Indies as a distraction.

plus it would have been kinda rude.

I don't know. Your whole situation with TH is just strange, though, I think we can agree on that, and your behavior toward TH early on was clearly false. I don't know why you would go out of your way to present yourself falsely when you can just not comment on it at all.

@Turnip Head are you claiming indie

If Kyle is telling the truth about everything involving TH, why does he need to misrepresent his knowledge in the thread? Why does he need to comment on it at all?

"misinterpret"

dislike. turnip head's wording was ambiguous, my question was a push for him to be more direct.

OK, I guess I can concede the semantics here. But why push him in the first place? To test his claim in public and to let it get sorted out?

[Golden]

Before last night, Mac would have been my tinfoil read. After last night, no. He's 100% town.

[ColinIsCool]

Why are you entertaining the notion even as an exercise when Quin claimed cop and immediately was killed for it?

I'm operating under the assumption that in a game with no flips the scum might be brazen enough to kill one of their own, knowing that they may be brought back at some point. I admit it's a long shot but I think it makes sense to at least be thorough on everybody if you're going to do this sort of thing at all. In the end it helps to solidify Quin as a townie and someone we ought to trust should he return.

[ColinIsCool]

I have been doing this all fucking day, LOL. Don't expect a lot from me tomorrow folks

[Golden]

Why are you entertaining the notion even as an exercise when Quin claimed cop and immediately was killed for it?

I'm operating under the assumption that in a game with no flips the scum might be brazen enough to kill one of their own, knowing that they may be brought back at some point. I admit it's a long shot but I think it makes sense to at least be thorough on everybody if you're going to do this sort of thing at all. In the end it helps to solidify Quin as a townie and someone we ought to trust should he return.

In a tinfoil world, cop is the right claim if you're going to pull this stunt, and Quin would be the type to pull it. It's not entirely out of the realms of sanity.

But pretty unlikely.

[sprityo]

linki: that you know his role or role flavor?

Like sprit everyone is asking the same questions over and over.

WE ARE A PAIR.

That's the answer to your question. I am 100% certain he is town.

that's not what i asked. why dont you just answer what you quoted directly?

[ColinIsCool]

Spacedaisy dig:

Spoiler: show

I can only conclude from this that you have no suspects.

Yeah. I'm never any good on day one.
I guess it's time to work on that, though.

What do you base your D1 votes on?

Well, I normally do an initial lynch on people to get them talking, and then I'll vote for the person who seems scummiest or whose lynch will yield the most information.

Yeah I don't suspect zephyrus but if y'all wanna bite Epi's bait I'm watching

Why don't you suspect him? Wasn't that a weird ass post? I posted the same thing as scum last game and everybody called my bullshit.
He's suss as sin.

I've explained that I was busy with exams. All I did was make a post hyping up the thread and showing that I'm alive. It's hardly suss as sin.
And, if you're talking about me voting lapluie, read above.

Wow could you at least @ me if ur gonna lynch me zyph thx

Sorry.

I normally do an initial lynch on people to get them talking
I lol’d. Good one, even though I’m sure this isn’t a joke.

Do you feel like your lynch of lapluie is getting him talking? Right now it appears that you ordered Haricots Verts with the expectation of cake and when the green beans show up you just nod and continue patiently waiting on your cake.

I just thought I'd give them a little more time. Chill.
@lapluie, who do you think is scummy? Answer quick, because I'm getting into loads of trouble.

Um what? Why does she need to answer quick? What does her answer have to do with you getting into loads of trouble? What kind of trouble are you referring to? Do not like this post.

I didn't find this post from Z as pingy as other people. If Zephyrus is scum, Daisy is teammate compatible if this sort of behavior is consistent with her MO. Ignoring individuals and just looking at the text, it's another one of those things that feels genuine and further than a scumbuddy would take things though.

I love drunk mafia, lol. I already think you’re town Colin.

Nice lady. For the record I apologize if any of you find my drunk Mafia obnoxious, I can totally understand why you might, it's just better than texting my ex at 2:30 a.m. and shows how truly dedicated I am to all of you. I'm so great.

Spoiler: show

There should be a motive.

“Your words don’t line up with your actions and I think the reason why is because...”

Otherwise the observation is empty. You find baddie conduct in nefarious motive, not something being odd.

Besides, when I said scotty is 100% town I meant it. If you think I’m town then you should not suspect Scotty either. I have no reason to make this up when I was after him half the day.

Look I’m not going after Scotty because you vouched for him. That was enough for me. The reason I’m still discussing what I saw as suspicious is because he’s turning into case against me. Golden if you can’t see my cig game then just Lynch’s he tomorrow. You’re not getting any flips anyway and at thee d of the game then we can talk. Because I have not done anything that should even be a case. I am town.

I can’t believe you of all people are buying into it.

I’m going to leave the thread for now because this has been an exceedingly frustrating game day for me and I’ve wanted to swear at pretty much everyone here except Colin and Kyle. And the worst part is with no flips this is how my whole damn game is going to go. There is no way to show you how fucking wrong you all are.

The thing about Mafia is that we don't have the benefit of knowing who the bad guys are at the start so we have to accuse people until we know more and more often than not will be wrong. Even Lord Mac.

I understand how mafia works but let’s review the only cases that have been brought against me

Nutella: this is fake and she’s bad.
Quin: agree
Mac: daisy must’ve told her baddie teammates in their chat that she can’t contribute so they should bus her.
Scotty: It’s weird to find it suspicious that I didn’t vote for the person I was badgering most of the day
Someone else I can’t remember: Daisy is upset because she is scum that got caught for the wrong reasons.

These are literally the worst cases I’ve ever seen on me. Ever. And if I am upset it’s because I’ve felt like a lot of you that I expected to see those cases for the sheer ridiculousness that they are did, did not see it.

But whatever, I’m done talking about this. Unless someone has something worthwhile to discuss with me about some suspicion they have. Otherwise I’m moving on.

Golden, I didn’t actually read that part from INH when I first said I believed he was town. Normally I would say no blackmailing a vote is not civilian minded. However, even after you mentioned it the first time and I saw it my mind wasn’t changed. Because it’s not just, “would a civ do this?” It’s “Would a civ INH do this?” I could very easily see it. It’s INH. I would be more inclined to think he would do it as a civ than a baddie. Though I could see it either way. I don’t find him more suspicious because of it anyway.

She is angry at the cases but not necessarily their outcome here. Again, could be that tell I talked about earlier in whatever-damn-post I made where I talked about this.

Quin, if I wanted to vote you, i would. My point is that there is no way for me to be sure of anything. We don't even know for sure sig WAS bad. The reason I'm not voting you is because I lean toward the idea that sig probably was.

If sig is bad, at least right now, it looks like Daisy could be bad too. This would be her casting doubt on something she knows to be true as a means of muddying the waters while still being amenable to the town's consensus and therefore looking rather townish.

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

Spacedaisy here is basically brought unwillingly to the Luna lynch. I don't see that as baddie compatible. There's no face to be saved, no credit to be gained in the event that Luna is bad. This is the sort of hard defense, content-wise, a scum strives to avoid.

Elsewhere in Daisy's ISO I find myself agreeing with a lot of her logic and find her to be asking helpful, incisive questions. It's funny to me that her and Mac go against her each other so much in what I feel are a bunch of T/T arguments, but iron sharpens iron. I also find her moments of anger at some of you to be in line with what I've seen of a town Spacedaisy before. Maybe that's easily faked, but I dunno, don't think so. She's strong town from me.

[Kylemii]

it's also way fucked up to assume that if I were mafia and getting ready to pull some bullshit with turnip head, who tbh would probably be in my list of top 10 favorite people to potentially pull some bullshit with, that id settle on "hey let's claim masons but im a civ and you're an indie and also you have a win condition that can be accomplished in literally 2 phases and also you're a spongebob character and im michael caine and we hang out together and that's just how it is i guess, yeah that'll work fine, this is probably a good long term plan"

[sprityo]

All right, who just gave me something?

i remembered reading this and wanted to ask about it

[Golden]

All right, who just gave me something?

i remembered reading this and wanted to ask about it

There's a gift giver out there.

[Kylemii]

@ColinIsCool what would have been the purpose in revealing mine and turnip head's masonship? he provided an easily verifiable claim, i didn't need anyone else's help to test it and if he was lying and killed me before I could speak the relevant information I could just leak the information through the ghost myspace information super highway. plus if he was mafia and hoping to use me to gain some kind of credit or something, revealing anything he'd said in the thread would only give incentive to kill me, and devoid of anything else, indie reveals always attract the kinds of people who hear indie and panic even though the game is about lynching mafia, who probably half the time are actually just mafia trying to use Indies as a distraction.

plus it would have been kinda rude.

I don't know. Your whole situation with TH is just strange, though, I think we can agree on that, and your behavior toward TH early on was clearly false. I don't know why you would go out of your way to present yourself falsely when you can just not comment on it at all.

i didn't present myself falsely. i asked him if he was claiming so i could make sure his indie-dom was brought into public canon.

what about my early behavior towards TH seems false to you? me pushing him to give reads? if you're locked in a btsc with someone claiming indie what are you gonna do, not try to feel them out?

@Turnip Head are you claiming indie

If Kyle is telling the truth about everything involving TH, why does he need to misrepresent his knowledge in the thread? Why does he need to comment on it at all?

"misinterpret"

dislike. turnip head's wording was ambiguous, my question was a push for him to be more direct.

OK, I guess I can concede the semantics here. But why push him in the first place? To test his claim in public and to let it get sorted out?

yes, but also to see if he'd go further and publically commit to his claim. there's a huge difference between saying "I win if I predict 2 elections" in the privacy of a sex cave and saying it in a public space.

[MacDougall]

it's also way fucked up to assume that if I were mafia and getting ready to pull some bullshit with turnip head, who tbh would probably be in my list of top 10 favorite people to potentially pull some bullshit with, that id settle on "hey let's claim masons but im a civ and you're an indie and also you have a win condition that can be accomplished in literally 2 phases and also you're a spongebob character and im michael caine and we hang out together and that's just how it is i guess, yeah that'll work fine, this is probably a good long term plan"

That's a lot of wine you've got in front of you there.

[sprityo]

All right, who just gave me something?

i remembered reading this and wanted to ask about it

There's a gift giver out there.

REALLY? I would never have guessed

[ColinIsCool]

Choutas/Sprityo:

Choutas and I played scum together in Easter, but he was hardly active and his lynch was a hot potato D1 fluke. I don't find his inactivity to be alignment-indicative at any rate considering he dropped out.

Yeah I don't suspect zephyrus but if y'all wanna bite Epi's bait I'm watching

Why don't you suspect him? Wasn't that a weird ass post? I posted the same thing as scum last game and everybody called my bullshit.
He's suss as sin.

Strong suspicions to lob D1. If Zephyrus is scum, Choutas probably wasn't, unless he really wanted to get credit from this he could use later, which isn't impossible given the Easter strategy after he left.

I remember Mac being more aggressive with a no bullshit attitude even when he was way off with his reads. I sense less resolution in his reads. Mac would flatly call someone scum I'm sure.

On D1 in Easter Choutas commented on Mac by non-commenting, aka saying actually nothing ("Mac is right into the role" or something). It drew ire, but here, he is actually providing reads and justifications, albeit slim ones. It could be that he simply learned from last game's mistake, and if that's the case, it's kinda funny he'd dance around Mac in both games.

I wish i had time to read all the posts and contribute.
I dont like how most guys are going soft and tame. The feel i have about Mac is that hes baddie this game. Goldens defense reads as genuine.
Scotty is a null read last game he proved hes incredibly tough to read correctly and he puzzles me even more in this one.
The guys who ask to be voted or for their conditions to be met should have pointa deducted and be considered dangerous.s
I wont put a placeholder vote, i need to read more and i ask to be forgiven foe not commiting enough.

Hard to get anything of substance from this. I don't know where exactly his reads come from or what they're in response to.

Moving onto sprityo, who, by the way, has more posts than lapluie:

coming back midway or so through day 2.

Epi is town, he's indecisive and changes is suspicions on a whim, i observed a good deal of it in Fire Emblem. He is right most of the time though in his suspicions, but he's best at defending himself.
Golden leans town for me with his interactions of sig, quin, mac, and INH. But it's more so just banter. than throwing down some "you're bad, fuck you"
i dont trust Quin (right now) in the slightest. A stump isnt activated by default from what ive seen. he's either lying out his ass or some convoluted shit is happening. on top of the "random PM" deal im still reading through. I hope it gets resolved
I keep seeing Colin pop in now and again. contributing somewhat.
Same with luna except it's nothing relevant, warrants an ISO once im done reading day2
if INH is not town, then when are we going to lynch him?
Mac is town but i dont know why yet.

He offers reads of some people, but not others (me and Luna). Maybe he means to suggest neutral, but he stops short of saying that. I'd love to see more concrete examples of casing here but sprityo isn't really that kind of player, so, shrug.

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

I think a lot of people had this read on Luna throughout the game — I did — so I don't think this is teammate indicative either way, if Lunalee is scum.

I don’t trust sig in the slightest.

A one shot vanish for a phase is more likely a mafia mechanic than not. The only odd part is that it was day activatable so that’s my only stigma on it.

Daisy do you have any opinion over Scotty?
Golden, does your role give any indication that Scotty would be town? I don’t know the relation to him you have but I would question anything the host hadn’t explicitly stated simply

If sig is scum, and is gambitting hard, this post indicates to me sprityo is not his teammate. This is the point where you rush in to lap up the story and make the case for why it's reasonable, not shit on it immediately.

I need to see more from sprityo before I weigh in comfortably, but at the very least I don't see him as compatible with sig and Choutas's game was too empty for me to really draw anything from. I don't exactly have a reason to townread him either.

[Golden]

I feel pretty good about sprit.

[ColinIsCool]

i didn't present myself falsely. i asked him if he was claiming so i could make sure his indie-dom was brought into public canon.

what about my early behavior towards TH seems false to you? me pushing him to give reads? if you're locked in a btsc with someone claiming indie what are you gonna do, not try to feel them out?

It's not that it seems false, it's that it IS false, given what you know about Turnip. But the way you phrase that question does make sense to me so I sorta see where you're coming from ... I think.

[Golden]

At this point, if I’m wrong about colin, Lapluie is the most likely teammate if sig and Luna. Either that or epi has me fooled.

[MacDougall]

Colin has seemed town to me. He and I have been reading the game the same.

[MacDougall]

I mean, if it comes down to who is Mafia out of sprityo and Colin I have no idea how you can say Colin is more likely than sprityo.

[Kylemii]

i didn't present myself falsely. i asked him if he was claiming so i could make sure his indie-dom was brought into public canon.

what about my early behavior towards TH seems false to you? me pushing him to give reads? if you're locked in a btsc with someone claiming indie what are you gonna do, not try to feel them out?

It's not that it seems false, it's that it IS false, given what you know about Turnip. But the way you phrase that question does make sense to me so I sorta see where you're coming from ... I think.

i guess i see where you're coming from. it was technically false from the angle that i was asking a question i already knew the answer to, but the purpose of the question wasn't to say "wow i didn't know that" it was to make sure that other people *did* know it.

also technically speaking didn't know for sure my btsc partner was turnip head until that moment cus we were allowed to use whatever names we wanted

[Golden]

Colin has seemed town to me. He and I have been reading the game the same.

One of the earliest things that bothered me is that I felt he deliberately was buddying you by copying your reads.

[MacDougall]

At this point, if I’m wrong about colin, Lapluie is the most likely teammate if sig and Luna. Either that or epi has me fooled.

There has to be minimum four scum in this game dude. Has to be. The amount of already witnessed pro civilian mechanisms in play ... no way there isn't four of them. Then there are almost certainly several indies.

[MacDougall]

Colin has seemed town to me. He and I have been reading the game the same.

One of the earliest things that bothered me is that I felt he deliberately was buddying you by copying your reads.

I am a paranoid motherfucker and I never sensed he wasn't being sincere.

And his reads of every player have also been extremely rational.

[ColinIsCool]

So my conclusive list of how sketched out I am would roughly look like this, ignoring people already out of the pool, and there is also wiggle room in the "tiers:"

MacDougall
Spacedaisy
Scotty
Golden

Epignosis
sprityo

Kylemii
lapluie
Turnip Head

I understand that some think lynching Turnip Head is a waste of resources, so I don't want to necessarily argue that point again and again and again. I'm more eager to here what other people think and I probably will not be contributing a whole lot the rest of this phase.

[ColinIsCool]

Colin has seemed town to me. He and I have been reading the game the same.

One of the earliest things that bothered me is that I felt he deliberately was buddying you by copying your reads.

Other people can comment if they disagree, but I don't find myself doing a lot of buddying as scum. In Easter I sort of made a fuss about thinking JJJ was town when he got heat, but that wasn't about warming up to him as much as it was about being too careful about where I stood should a JJJ mislynch actually happen.

[MacDougall]

Colin has seemed town to me. He and I have been reading the game the same.

One of the earliest things that bothered me is that I felt he deliberately was buddying you by copying your reads.

Other people can comment if they disagree, but I don't find myself doing a lot of buddying as scum. In Easter I sort of made a fuss about thinking JJJ was town when he got heat, but that wasn't about warming up to him as much as it was about being too careful about where I stood should a JJJ mislynch actually happen.

I know many who don't but I have come to adore buddying when I am scum because for some inexplicable reason people just don't believe scum do it. See my most recent scum game for evidence.

[ColinIsCool]

I just realized I forgot sig on that list but he's in the bottom tier.

[Golden]

At this point, if I’m wrong about colin, Lapluie is the most likely teammate if sig and Luna. Either that or epi has me fooled.

There has to be minimum four scum in this game dude. Has to be. The amount of already witnessed pro civilian mechanisms in play ... no way there isn't four of them. Then there are almost certainly several indies.

Well I'm very confident in you, me, daisy, scotty. I'm quite confident nutella and quin weren't any.

It's possible zephyrus was one. I don't see any good reason for luna's cop lie being a green peek on sig if she is town. One of sig and inh is bound to be I think, I'm not sure I agree with 'several indies' in a 16 player game. TH seems to be one, I think we'd have a max of two.

I see no reason for Kyle to be playing the way he is re TH if he is mafia. That just doesn't seem to check out.

That leaves only colin, epi, sprit and lapluie.

[Golden]

From those I would rank form most to least likely town

Epi
Sprit
Lapluie
Colin