DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I really hate that post. It feels like Jay is subtly stoking the fires of my town paranoia. I never feel that way about town!Jay. Town!Jay is always blunt about everything. He never just plops something like that in the thread without saying who he thought that deepwolf was and why. It's stoking the fires of the thread without diving into it himself.

This is a basic and undeveloped perspective of who I am and how I play. I acknowledged that there's probably at least one active mafioso. There's no immediate urgency or requirement to say "it's this guy" -- you didn't say who it is either in the moment you suggested you were on the hunt for a deepwolf. It's a general statement about the gamestate. It doesn't need to be anything else.

[Tangrowth]

M Plus 7
Infected_alien8_

Refresh my memory. Did you both play in the qualifier and the wild card, or just the latter?

Both.

You were both civilians in the qualifier, correct? If true, please describe briefly how the two of you interacted in that game -- was there some significant suspicion being traded in either direction?

The TL;DR is basically we townread each other for most of the game. He and I had our doubts on each other at the end though, especially me of him, but Mexal was stoking that fire as well, lol. I still thought he was town though.

Then he got NKed N3.

[Tangrowth]

Also M Plus 7, why do you think the easiest way for me to fabricate a suspicion would be on you?

I'm the player you know the best of anyone here. If you're scum and trying to integrate yourself into a new environment, what better than to suspect the guy you know and who also posted more than twice as much as anyone else? I have plenty to pick apart.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

One note: given the generally positive vibes I am getting from the most active core of play so far, I am finding the "null" players to be, by default, more suspicious than null. At this point if I have no concrete reason to see someone as a civilian or a mafioso, that's a bad thing.

I'll agree with that although I am actively searching for a deepwolf.

That's fair. I'd expect at least one.

This is the second post now that you've made that pinged me, Jay.

Why would you expect at least one?

This doesn't sound like something town!Jay would say at all.

I hate it.

You don't always have the clearest perception of what a "town!Jay" would say. I am not a press-button plastic toy with some revolving cycle of statements. We're all dynamic here.

The game has been active enough, and with a diverse enough set of contributors to that activity, that probability alone suggests at least one of them isn't a civilian. It's pretty unlikely the mafia team is exactly "DharmaHelper, Turnip Head, and Marmot" for example. There aren't many people left who've given little discernible effort.

What are you, discrediting me now?

I disagree somewhat. Why can't the scum team just be DH, TH, or Marmot? Or DH, Russ, and Luna? Why is that so unlikely, Mr. POE?

[Tangrowth]

I really hate that post. It feels like Jay is subtly stoking the fires of my town paranoia. I never feel that way about town!Jay. Town!Jay is always blunt about everything. He never just plops something like that in the thread without saying who he thought that deepwolf was and why. It's stoking the fires of the thread without diving into it himself.

This is a basic and undeveloped perspective of who I am and how I play. I acknowledged that there's probably at least one active mafioso. There's no immediate urgency or requirement to say "it's this guy" -- you didn't say who it is either in the moment you suggested you were on the hunt for a deepwolf. It's a general statement about the gamestate. It doesn't need to be anything else.

It's bullshit is what it is. It's stoking paranoia. I don't like it.

And what I said was totally different than what you said.

I said I was actively searching for a deepwolf. I didn't say that one exists.

Then you just said "that's fair" and said you expect at least one.

I call bullshit sir. You don't actually believe that, do you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

One note: given the generally positive vibes I am getting from the most active core of play so far, I am finding the "null" players to be, by default, more suspicious than null. At this point if I have no concrete reason to see someone as a civilian or a mafioso, that's a bad thing.

I'll agree with that although I am actively searching for a deepwolf.

That's fair. I'd expect at least one.

This is the second post now that you've made that pinged me, Jay.

Why would you expect at least one?

This doesn't sound like something town!Jay would say at all.

I hate it.

You don't always have the clearest perception of what a "town!Jay" would say. I am not a press-button plastic toy with some revolving cycle of statements. We're all dynamic here.

The game has been active enough, and with a diverse enough set of contributors to that activity, that probability alone suggests at least one of them isn't a civilian. It's pretty unlikely the mafia team is exactly "DharmaHelper, Turnip Head, and Marmot" for example. There aren't many people left who've given little discernible effort.

What are you, discrediting me now?

I disagree somewhat. Why can't the scum team just be DH, TH, or Marmot? Or DH, Russ, and Luna? Why is that so unlikely, Mr. POE?

No, I'm telling you why your mindset is wrong and why you should adapt it.

To the spectator, the scum team "can" be anything. It's a question of math. It simply isn't likely to be that exact set of people, already isolated with complete perfection right here in Day 0/1, by mere production of post count or reads. If it is, then that's great. We'll definitely win. It's rarely so easy as that.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

One note: given the generally positive vibes I am getting from the most active core of play so far, I am finding the "null" players to be, by default, more suspicious than null. At this point if I have no concrete reason to see someone as a civilian or a mafioso, that's a bad thing.

I'll agree with that although I am actively searching for a deepwolf.

That's fair. I'd expect at least one.

This is the second post now that you've made that pinged me, Jay.

Why would you expect at least one?

This doesn't sound like something town!Jay would say at all.

I hate it.

You don't always have the clearest perception of what a "town!Jay" would say. I am not a press-button plastic toy with some revolving cycle of statements. We're all dynamic here.

The game has been active enough, and with a diverse enough set of contributors to that activity, that probability alone suggests at least one of them isn't a civilian. It's pretty unlikely the mafia team is exactly "DharmaHelper, Turnip Head, and Marmot" for example. There aren't many people left who've given little discernible effort.

What are you, discrediting me now?

I disagree somewhat. Why can't the scum team just be DH, TH, or Marmot? Or DH, Russ, and Luna? Why is that so unlikely, Mr. POE?

No, I'm telling you why your mindset is wrong and why you should adapt it.

To the spectator, the scum team "can" be anything. It's a question of math. It simply isn't likely to be that exact set of people, already isolated with complete perfection right here in Day 0/1, by mere production of post count or reads. If it is, then that's great. We'll definitely win. It's rarely so easy as that.

Alright.

I'm satisfied enough for now.

[Tangrowth]

I'll get that stuff for Tsaiah, throw down a reads list, and then I really am gone for a long while. It's 1:45PM. I've done too much of this, and clearly people probably don't want me to flood the game anyway.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I really hate that post. It feels like Jay is subtly stoking the fires of my town paranoia. I never feel that way about town!Jay. Town!Jay is always blunt about everything. He never just plops something like that in the thread without saying who he thought that deepwolf was and why. It's stoking the fires of the thread without diving into it himself.

This is a basic and undeveloped perspective of who I am and how I play. I acknowledged that there's probably at least one active mafioso. There's no immediate urgency or requirement to say "it's this guy" -- you didn't say who it is either in the moment you suggested you were on the hunt for a deepwolf. It's a general statement about the gamestate. It doesn't need to be anything else.

It's bullshit is what it is. It's stoking paranoia. I don't like it.

And what I said was totally different than what you said.

I said I was actively searching for a deepwolf. I didn't say that one exists.

Then you just said "that's fair" and said you expect at least one.

I call bullshit sir. You don't actually believe that, do you?

If there's at least one and I "don't believe that", then I am definitely not mafia. Because I'd be a/the deepwolf.

You're getting caught in your own vortex of confidence, and that's fine. You see a thing you don't like, and you attack it. Carry on if you like. I said what I said because it's mathematically probable to be correct. I don't need to say anything beyond that. If you expect every single post in the history of JaggedJimmyJay to fit into this narrow image you have drawn for them, then you're never going to read me as a civilian ever again. I suggest you broaden your expectations.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

I really hate that post. It feels like Jay is subtly stoking the fires of my town paranoia. I never feel that way about town!Jay. Town!Jay is always blunt about everything. He never just plops something like that in the thread without saying who he thought that deepwolf was and why. It's stoking the fires of the thread without diving into it himself.

This is a basic and undeveloped perspective of who I am and how I play. I acknowledged that there's probably at least one active mafioso. There's no immediate urgency or requirement to say "it's this guy" -- you didn't say who it is either in the moment you suggested you were on the hunt for a deepwolf. It's a general statement about the gamestate. It doesn't need to be anything else.

It's bullshit is what it is. It's stoking paranoia. I don't like it.

And what I said was totally different than what you said.

I said I was actively searching for a deepwolf. I didn't say that one exists.

Then you just said "that's fair" and said you expect at least one.

I call bullshit sir. You don't actually believe that, do you?

If there's at least one and I "don't believe that", then I am definitely not mafia. Because I'd be a/the deepwolf.

You're getting caught in your own vortex of confidence, and that's fine. You see a thing you don't like, and you attack it. Carry on if you like. I said what I said because it's mathematically probable to be correct. I don't need to say anything beyond that. If you expect every single post in the history of JaggedJimmyJay to fit into this narrow image you have drawn for them, then you're never going to read me as a civilian ever again. I suggest you broaden your expectations.

Alright, you're town.

[Infected_alien8_]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

[Tangrowth]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

Are you fucking kidding me right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

What moment are you referring to? Expand on the perceived lack of fire.

[Tangrowth]

I need a good picture of an Alien getting caught in a tunnel. *insert one here*

[Infected_alien8_]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

What moment are you referring to? Expand on the perceived lack of fire.

His flip onto you. Having been on the other end of that myself, and having seen it on others too, I always felt as though I could see the flames in his eyes when he flipped like that.

This time it felt flat. I don't buy that he genuinely thought he'd caught you out, he wasn't excited or stroked, he was just accusing you.

[Tangrowth]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

What moment are you referring to? Expand on the perceived lack of fire.

His flip onto you. Having been on the other end of that myself, and having seen it on others too, I always felt as though I could see the flames in his eyes when he flipped like that.

This time it felt flat. I don't buy that he genuinely thought he'd caught you out, he wasn't excited or stroked, he was just accusing you.

I just don't even know what to say anymore.

[Tangrowth]

Sigh. Clearly I'm overworking myself here anyway. I could use a long break.

[Infected_alien8_]

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but I feel pretty confident about it. If I could vote I'd be voting you right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If there's a deepwolf it's definitely Alien. I'm fine with everyone else.

I have some mild concern that abyssum's content to this point wouldn't pose a terrible challenge for a mafioso to generate, even if a few isolated moments seemed organic.

Which moments do you think seemed organic, could you quote them?

Many of the posts abyssum made on this page rubbed me the right way, at the level of a gut read. They seemed to be going with the flow and inserting commentary as desired in a way that looked good to me. It's a small point, but it's something.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

What moment are you referring to? Expand on the perceived lack of fire.

His flip onto you. Having been on the other end of that myself, and having seen it on others too, I always felt as though I could see the flames in his eyes when he flipped like that.

This time it felt flat. I don't buy that he genuinely thought he'd caught you out, he wasn't excited or stroked, he was just accusing you.

Would you be able to find the moment when you were on the other end of that yourself and provide a link?

[Infected_alien8_]

If there's a deepwolf it's definitely Alien. I'm fine with everyone else.

I have some mild concern that abyssum's content to this point wouldn't pose a terrible challenge for a mafioso to generate, even if a few isolated moments seemed organic.

Which moments do you think seemed organic, could you quote them?

Many of the posts abyssum made on this page rubbed me the right way, at the level of a gut read. They seemed to be going with the flow and inserting commentary as desired in a way that looked good to me. It's a small point, but it's something.

Alright. I don't agree for what it's worth, but thanks

[Infected_alien8_]

That M Plus 7 moment didn't feel genuine to me. There was no fire there.

What moment are you referring to? Expand on the perceived lack of fire.

His flip onto you. Having been on the other end of that myself, and having seen it on others too, I always felt as though I could see the flames in his eyes when he flipped like that.

This time it felt flat. I don't buy that he genuinely thought he'd caught you out, he wasn't excited or stroked, he was just accusing you.

Would you be able to find the moment when you were on the other end of that yourself and provide a link?

Yeah, hang on

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright. I don't agree for what it's worth, but thanks

Are you saying you view abyssum as a suspect?

[Tangrowth]

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but I feel pretty confident about it. If I could vote I'd be voting you right now.

Lynching me on D1 is -EV. I will resolve myself in time.

But you do you. If you really think I’m the most worthy lynch on D1 I don’t know what else to tell you.

Otherwise I will do everything I can to prove to you all that I’m town even if I feel like that’s already evident to be honest.

[Infected_alien8_]

Alright. I don't agree for what it's worth, but thanks

Are you saying you view abyssum as a suspect?

No, I just don't share your gut feeling of those posts being Townie, I'd say she's fairly neutral right now, her reluctance to give me an opinion with M Plus 7 pinged me but I'm waiting on more content to make a decision about her

Also I'm struggling to find when he flipped on me sorry, I'm still looking though

[Infected_alien8_]

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but I feel pretty confident about it. If I could vote I'd be voting you right now.

Lynching me on D1 is -EV. I will resolve myself in time.

But you do you. If you really think I’m the most worthy lynch on D1 I don’t know what else to tell you.

Otherwise I will do everything I can to prove to you all that I’m town even if I feel like that’s already evident to be honest.

What does -EV mean by the way?

[Infected_alien8_]

Also, why do you feel it's evident you're Town?

[Tangrowth]

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but I feel pretty confident about it. If I could vote I'd be voting you right now.

Lynching me on D1 is -EV. I will resolve myself in time.

But you do you. If you really think I’m the most worthy lynch on D1 I don’t know what else to tell you.

Otherwise I will do everything I can to prove to you all that I’m town even if I feel like that’s already evident to be honest.

What does -EV mean by the way?

Sorry, MU term I've picked up clearly, I should have explained it.

It stands for negative expected value. Just means that if I am town the expected value of the move will be too negative on the state of the game. Better to resolve someone else who's not as much of a power poster and/or someone who can't clear themselves as evidently. At least IMO.

[Tangrowth]

Also, why do you feel it's evident you're Town?

*gestures at ISO*

I've displayed more WIM in any game during Day 0 than pretty much anyone ever, myself included. I'm genuinely assessing and reassessing everyone I possibly can. I'm throwing out hot takes. I'm trying to engage as many players as I reasonably can.

And I am doing all of this just coming out of a game where I posted nearly 2,600 times.

[Infected_alien8_]

I can't believe I'm actually going through his wild card ISO lol

M Plus 7 I don't suppose you remember when you flipped on me do you?

[Tangrowth]

If I was scum I'd be much more terrified right now, especially given this player list. Thankfully I'm not. My reaction to Epi when I received my PM was and I quote

THANK FUCKING GOD

[Tangrowth]

I can't believe I'm actually going through his wild card ISO lol

M Plus 7 I don't suppose you remember when you flipped on me do you?

Which time? Time #1, #2, or #999?

Seriously, it's hard to say for sure. Let me think.

I believe...

- Day 1 you were in my 5-person POE but my least preferred lynch. I did vote for you and call you "underwhelming" though.
- Day 2 was when my drunk self suspected you heavily.
- Rest of Day 2 my sober self was okay with you.
- Day 3 I started suspecting you heavily, had my dogpee moment.
- Then after you ISOd me and your response to my dogpee moment, I flipped hard and started waving my hands around the thread proclaiming you as town.
- Day 4 I shifted back to you being scum and lynched you.

Something like that. There might be mini-shifts otherwise but those are the main ones.

[Infected_alien8_]

I can't believe I'm actually going through his wild card ISO lol

M Plus 7 I don't suppose you remember when you flipped on me do you?

Which time? Time #1, #2, or #999?

Seriously, it's hard to say for sure. Let me think.

I believe...

- Day 1 you were in my 5-person POE but my least preferred lynch. I did vote for you and call you "underwhelming" though.
- Day 2 was when my drunk self suspected you heavily.
- Rest of Day 2 my sober self was okay with you.
- Day 3 I started suspecting you heavily, had my dogpee moment.
- Then after you ISOd me and your response to my dogpee moment, I flipped hard and started waving my hands around the thread proclaiming you as town.
- Day 4 I shifted back to you being scum and lynched you.

Something like that. There might be mini-shifts otherwise but those are the main ones.

Ah thanks, yeah it was the day 3 one I was after, should be able to find it now thanks

[Infected_alien8_]

This is when M Plus 7 flipped on me:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576081
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576103
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576105
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576108
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576109
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576114
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576115
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576124
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576129
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost2576139

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

You know

I think maybe there is a discernable thing i saw different in skimming M Plus 7's scumgame during his qualifier

I'll havta go look again and see

M Plus 7 gimme scumgames on the syndicate pls n thx
I don't wanna dig thru your mu isos (plus i remember some links being now inaccessible in wcs)

No hurry tho, i'm gonna finish catching up and take a break first, might not get to that til tomorrow

(And no, i'm not telling you what i'm looking for )

Let me get back to you on this once I've caught up, then I'll be gone for a while myself. Don't let me forget if you happen to be around and I've not done it yet.

[mention]Tsaiah[/mention]

I'm actually going to include even more than I did in WC1 or G9.

Here are various games where I was scum just on The Syndicate:

Murder on the Owl Express -- My ISO -- started February 2018 -- WIN-- note: this game is a turbo

Romance of the Three Kingdoms -- My ISO -- started August 2016 -- LOSS -- note: I actually forgot about this one when doing all the meta search for G9 and WC1 because my performance of myself and my team that bad (our entire time even missed an NK submission), but we were moving apartments at the time

Transistor -- My ISO -- started May 2016 -- WIN

Season 3 Mafia Championship Scrimmage -- My ISO -- started April 2016 -- WIN

Tree Mafia -- My ISO -- started November 2015 -- LOSS

Frisky Dingo -- My ISO -- started July 2015 -- LOSS

Who Framed Roger Robbit? -- My ISO -- started March 2015 -- LOSS

The Hobbit -- My ISO -- started May 2014 -- LOSS -- note: I was a serial killer

WWE -- My ISO -- started December 2013 -- WIN

Classic Super Mario Bros. -- My ISO -- started July 2013 -- LOSS

Masters of the Universe -- My ISO -- started February 2013 -- LOSS

This ended up being way more extensive than I anticipated, but there you go. I fell down a rabbit hole, and it was sort of fun to reminisce. (Epignosis will love that I included MOTU here which was his first hosted game ever and an absolute behemoth, and Russ will love that I included The Hobbit which was his first hosting experience as well! I'm sure others might appreciate the references as well. There were some really memorable moments in some of these especially.)

I almost certainly forgot some, and obviously my gameplay has changed a ton throughout the last 5 years, but that's quite the sample size for you to pull from. I hope it assists.

[Tangrowth]

MP7 Late Day 0 Rainbow List -- POE Style

Strong town:
Tsaiah

Moderate town:
JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall
RobotNerd277

Slight town:
abyssum
ColinIsCool
Kylemii
Infected_alien8
Lunalee
Turnip Head

Slight scum:
DharmaHelper
Marmot
Russtifinko
sprityo

Alphabetical within groups. There's a lot of GTH here. I forced myself to get rid of null reads because fuck that.

Upon reflection I'm not sure what to make of Russ; could be buddying me pretty hard, and I want to look into that parallel that I thought of per Jay's observation. Hopefully Mac can assist me there. A bit surprised my gut went that way.

A bit surprised my gut went scum on sprityo right now too; I need to look into that. Thinking about it more it felt like his treatment of me was weird, a lot of words with no real substance there.

Despite the stuff I just had with Alien I'm tempted to believe he's genuinely tunneling me more than not, and I think is gameplay does still seem more parallel to G9 than WC1 all else being equal, but I am a bit wary.

Not sure I have time to explain the rest right now, but feel free to interact with me about anyone.

Now I will actually be gone until this evening at the earliest. I really do feel terrible for getting frustrated with you all. I am sorry. I just really hate feeling like I'm making the game less fun for anyone. I really do enjoy this game and I really enjoy you all. I hope you all can put up with me. I will seriously not be posting this much all the time; I just cannot afford the time. I also understand the importance of letting the thread breathe, and I will try to make a conscious effort to force myself away more for that reason as well. I also just have a serious problem and plenty of IRL things I need to do anyway.

I wish all of you the best of luck in all of your hunting and digging. I've not seen a start to a game here this strong in a long time. Let's please capitalize on that and win this game for the town.

I believe in all of us.

[MacDougall]

Lol, what timing.

What makes you assess his poo flinging so far as fake? As you and I both know, it's in character as either alignment. What should I be looking for re: Mac this early? Give me all of your thoughts, Jay.

Poo flinging is great. We should all do it. It should also bear some kind of capacity for response, or at least be traceable to some tangible inspiration. Mac's poo is randomized. I have no idea why those posts he highlighted suggested the alignments he tacked onto them.

Sorry Jay I was unaware that you had evolved your requirements of my basic day 1 101 gameplay to introduce this new attribute that now gives you justification to make meta reads that you never have before. Allow me to update my core programming to give no fucks.

@MacDougall
What, to your mind, does the part you bolded have to do with meta reads?

I read that part as "any flung poo should be of the kind that elicits actual responses/discussion, or at least give people an idea of where said poo flinger is coming from"

M Plus 7 as referring to it being in my character and then Jay applied that this supposed behaviour that is in my character should also appear this way. He is referring to the expectation of "poo-flinging" as it pertains to my meta.

[MacDougall]

You're in full King of Fuck Mountain mode right now, and I'm just loving it.

Let's solve this game, Jay. We can win.

I've had a long break, and I am sick of you taking all the glory.

With you and I as town and in full solving mode, we can crush this game. I'm fucking stoked.

I thought you wanted me to help you crush it. You can't have both of us. Jay and I are highlanders. There can be only one.

@MacDougall

Even with it done in a joking manner, this still carries a nuance of drawing lines in the sand. What about your reads at the time made you want to create a dichotomy here? Or is it all about past history with each other?

Jay was mildly perturbing me so I made a bit of a joke you see.

[MacDougall]

DharmaHelper and Colin are probs bad. Jay is bad at Mafia. The rest of you have a hall pass for now. Those who haven't checked in should be lynched randomly and consecutively starting right now and we probably win the game really easily. But instead we will probably lynch those that are posting as is the weakness of the civilians in every game.

God, i feel like there should be something in this post that could let me get a read, if i could just dig it out

@MacDougall (sorry for all the pings, please tell me to stop if necessary)

Explain what's behind these reads? Let me in your head, please

And did you just advocate for lynching the people not here yet because they weren't here, or because you think most people already posting were townie, or what, exactly? (Related: didn't you just scumread two of the people who were already posting?)

DharmaHelper and Colin both appear to be different to their usual selves. I am tempered by the fact that they are both highly participatory in the other game though. As far as the non players, I generally tend to think that mafia are usually some of the last players to check in. When doing a quick drop in there is more of a "check role PM, am town, say hi" as opposed to "check role PM, am scum, better be careful with my first post" mentality to it. On the weight of numbers I believe that.

[MacDougall]

MP
Tsaiah

You ain't posted yet, shit

Kyle
Colin

Mac
abyssum
DH

I forgot that you actually suck at Mafia now. Sucks to be you.

My reads aren’t terribly different from those you’ve provided. Also you know I’m a civilian.

Hi yes this, re: the bolded

@MacDougall , what reads do you/did you disagree with here besides the read on you?

Or does Jay just "suck at mafia" because he's scumreading you?

Yes the sarcastic insult was a result of his scum read on me.

[MacDougall]

Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually

I am inclined to disagree on this one. I found Russ's take on your proposed Mac slip to be convoluted, in that the variables he introduced (primarily the relationship/experience you've had or not had with MacDougall) to be of shaky relevance, and I struggled to follow the thread of thought he was putting to paper.

!

This reminds me of something important.

There was a game where Russ was scum and caught by I believe it was even MacDougall with similar logic.

@MacDougall do you remember this? What game was it? You and I even argued about it didn't we?

Fuck why can't I remember what game it was

Ask the Syndicate historian

[RobotNerd277]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Please say something to make me not shove you to the bottom of my readslist.

I'm phoneposting after I donated blood btw, and not amazingly attentive rn.

[MacDougall]

MP for what reason does RobotNerd277 have a moderate town read? In my skim I saw one post that said "sorry I'm late" basically.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall

Please say something to make me not shove you to the bottom of my readslist.

I'm phoneposting after I donated blood btw, and not amazingly attentive rn.

For what reason would you be wanting to "shove" me to the bottom of my readslist aside from the fact that you can find comfort in that there are other people that are focused in on me? Nice and comfortable place for a late game entrant to take up position right?

[RobotNerd277]

@MacDougall

Please say something to make me not shove you to the bottom of my readslist.

I'm phoneposting after I donated blood btw, and not amazingly attentive rn.

For what reason would you be wanting to "shove" me to the bottom of my readslist aside from the fact that you can find comfort in that there are other people that are focused in on me? Nice and comfortable place for a late game entrant to take up position right?

Nah, it's that you don't seem to be saying anything that's like, truly commital, or can't be kinda rescinded as a joke?

But like, the post immediately before this one that I quoted was not bad. I'll wait until I get home to make a harder post.

[RobotNerd277]

By harder I mean, with evidence and serious reads and stuff. Much of my difficulty in reading people originates with you.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall

Please say something to make me not shove you to the bottom of my readslist.

I'm phoneposting after I donated blood btw, and not amazingly attentive rn.

For what reason would you be wanting to "shove" me to the bottom of my readslist aside from the fact that you can find comfort in that there are other people that are focused in on me? Nice and comfortable place for a late game entrant to take up position right?

Nah, it's that you don't seem to be saying anything that's like, truly commital, or can't be kinda rescinded as a joke?

But like, the post immediately before this one that I quoted was not bad. I'll wait until I get home to make a harder post.

I have made lots of posts that were not jokes and that are commital. Many more than you have for instance.

This is a false narrative. Why are you trying to paint a false narrative against me? Do you tend to do that as town?

[MacDougall]

I am currently working on the assumption that the scum team is sprityo, Infected_alien8_ and russtifinko.

[Russtifinko]

I didn't say I thought he slipped, I said I thought he possibly slipped, and that I didn't think it was genuinely a slip myself because he seemed Town other than that and my gut says it wasn't, but I wanted to point it out anyway to see if anyone else made anything of it. I didn't want to act like I thought he was genuinely slipping because I didn't, and I didn't see the point of pressuring him to think I did other than to make us have a pointless debate about it.

My point here is, if you don't think it's a baddie slip, why bring it up? All that can do is bring suspicion on a person who you just said you viewed as civ at the time. The only possible way I can interpret this now is that it was at best unproductive and at worst actively detrimental to the civ cause.

Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually

I am inclined to disagree on this one. I found Russ's take on your proposed Mac slip to be convoluted, in that the variables he introduced (primarily the relationship/experience you've had or not had with MacDougall) to be of shaky relevance, and I struggled to follow the thread of thought he was putting to paper.

Just cuz you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong.

Russ can you elaborate on what you meant about the revenge lynch thing?

The revenge lynch thing is this: the way you set up your post accusing Mac of a scumslip looked to me like it was contrived to absolve yourself of responsibility for casting shade on him. I was saying that, if the suspicion had picked up steam and resulted in Mac being lynched and he flipped civ, you could just say, "Well, it looked like a slip to me." A lot of times, people revenge-lynch the person who first accused a mislynched civ, but it's hard to criticize someone who actually thought they saw a slip, and no one could get in your head to say you truly did/didn't believe that. This last post of yours looks even more deflect-y to me, because even after all the hedging earlier, you're now saying, "Don't look at me! I didn't even BELIEVE that thing I said! I'm just generating discussion!"

I don't think the "revenge lynch" thing is what JJJ points out as being weak about my post. He can clarify if he does think the revenge lynch point is weak, but what he referred to above is me asking whether you and Mac have played together before. He considers it irrelevant to the argument (and you apparently agree now and suspect me for it, despite intially getting a town read from my post). I think it's very relevant, because Mac is a player with one of the most well-defined playstyles I've ever met; I've only played 3 or so games with him and I know he NO Us hard and goes balls out on his suspicions. If you knew him, he wouldn't be your first choice for a vague accusation D0, so it would read pretty civ to me if you had gone out on a limb like that to accuse him. Since you don't know him, I'm guessing you threw it out to see if it would stick without incriminating you, and backtracked when he pushed back on it.

It's early, but fuck it: I think Alien is bad.

[RobotNerd277]

@MacDougall

Please say something to make me not shove you to the bottom of my readslist.

I'm phoneposting after I donated blood btw, and not amazingly attentive rn.

For what reason would you be wanting to "shove" me to the bottom of my readslist aside from the fact that you can find comfort in that there are other people that are focused in on me? Nice and comfortable place for a late game entrant to take up position right?

Nah, it's that you don't seem to be saying anything that's like, truly commital, or can't be kinda rescinded as a joke?

But like, the post immediately before this one that I quoted was not bad. I'll wait until I get home to make a harder post.

I have made lots of posts that were not jokes and that are commital. Many more than you have for instance.

This is a false narrative. Why are you trying to paint a false narrative against me? Do you tend to do that as town?

(back home now)

I should just read pages 5-15 so that I can fully understand the narrative here. I'm not trying to paint a false narrative, but yes, I do skip around the thread and probably miss a bunch of contentful posts so that I can start saying things right away. At the beginning of the thread you appeared to be shitposting really hard after discussion was going on around you and now you appear to be absolutely fine.

You just, tend to be over-sarcastic and it's making it really hard for me to figure out what you actually think, which may or may not be intentional. I just can't tell what you really mean.

I'm gonna continue trying to catch up now. That'd probably just be more productive.