DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Infected_alien8_]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@Lunalee

I wanna hear more from you! Specifically, how do you feel about the spirityo v Mac thing? This is a good generic question for anyone to answer, but I've got N O T H I N G on Lunalee so I wanna specifically hear what you have to say.

Hi RobotNerd, thanks for the prompt. I have trouble finding where I should give input in games like this with a lot of experienced players weighing in.

This looks like the post that started it all: A very innocent comment by sprityo about Mac not being actually green on MP's read list.
Here's why MacDougall dislikes sprityo:
Sprityo has avoided heat in ways he probably shouldn't have I want to see examples of this, because I don't see it in sprit's ISO.
sprityo responds to Mac's suspicions by saying "it was a joke" and "I'm bad at mafia"

Then there's Sprit's blow-up post and Mac's reaction to it. At first glance, it honestly looks like two civvs who don't understand each other.

But I can't help but notice how sprityo is reacting to this whole thing. He swings an attack, then immediately backs down, as if hoping to shut it down before Mac can swing back:
swing 1
back-down 1
swing 2
back-down 2

Mac's response to this is steady and forceful. He does not back down. This seems like a more common townie trait. If I had to pick a scum between Mac and Sprityo, I would choose Sprityo.

His backdown #2 wasn't him going back on his reads though, it was him wanting to move on from stating his case because it was taxing argueing

This also feels a bit like a forced read to me, it feels like you're struggling for what to say, so you're just trying to find something you could say is suspicious, because I don't think your quotes match into your argument very well so it reads as if you made the case first and then tried to fit things into it as opposed to working bottom-up and seeing it first and then making the case

I felt like back down 2 was Sprityo attempting to shut the door on the whole issue, because he didn't want to continue engaging with Mac.
I did force myself to make a read of Mac and sprit (if that's what you mean), but I didn't have a conclusion going into it. It sort of evolved. Where else do my quotes not make since to you? I may have messed them up, or if not I can try to clarify.

I agree it's sprit trying to move on, I don't agree it was 'backing down' though, he was shutting himself off from argueing anymore about it but maintaining his stance

And no it was just that part, it feels like you were trying to twist what he did into some sort of case where you say he keeps backing down even though I don't think it fits properly

Also @M Plus 7 what do you think of robot this game right now? Hopefully that tag works but it didn't come up with the option menu thing so I'm not sure

I... am not sure. I liked her entrance and her attempts to seem grounded in the game struck me as sincere initially, but now I'm just like... I don't know. I'm not sure I like her treatment of Luna. What do you think of her?

She seems different to what I remember of her last game. Last game she listened to people's arguments, agreed, voted accordingly, then listened to counter-arguments, agreed, unvoted. It was like that all game with her. This game she's very much on her own, sort of in isolation from others' opinions. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

[Tangrowth]

Welp

Fell asleep for like 7 hours, woke up around when i usually go to bed, fell back asleep, woke up even more confused, fell back asleep for a few more hours xD

Fortunately I'm off today too, loool

Think i'm just gonna read the stuff i haven't read at all first, for keeping-up-with sanity

Then finish whatever original timewarp stuff is still relevant xD

[mention]Tsaiah[/mention]

Very much looking forward to your updated thoughts. Let's try to chat if we can.

[Infected_alien8_]

What about her treatment of luna don't you like M Plus 7?

[Kylemii]

I'm feeling turbulent right now. I need help. Someone talk to me about reads.

talk to me about russtifinko,

tell me tales of the Old Times, MP

[Tangrowth]

players who know infected alien, how would you characterize their civ gameplay? mafia gameplay?

do they often go out of their way to weigh in on things, both positively and negatively? is there a correlation to alignment or is it a consistent behavior across the board

I just played WC1 with him (he was scum; I was town) and before that Game 9 qualifier (we were both town).

I'd say... "go out of their way to weigh in on things" describes both alignments.

Let me mull over the differences I saw in Alien's town versus scum play around in my mind a bit, and I'll tag you in a more composed statement.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@Lunalee

I wanna hear more from you! Specifically, how do you feel about the spirityo v Mac thing? This is a good generic question for anyone to answer, but I've got N O T H I N G on Lunalee so I wanna specifically hear what you have to say.

Hi RobotNerd, thanks for the prompt. I have trouble finding where I should give input in games like this with a lot of experienced players weighing in.

This looks like the post that started it all: A very innocent comment by sprityo about Mac not being actually green on MP's read list.
Here's why MacDougall dislikes sprityo:
Sprityo has avoided heat in ways he probably shouldn't have I want to see examples of this, because I don't see it in sprit's ISO.
sprityo responds to Mac's suspicions by saying "it was a joke" and "I'm bad at mafia"

Then there's Sprit's blow-up post and Mac's reaction to it. At first glance, it honestly looks like two civvs who don't understand each other.

But I can't help but notice how sprityo is reacting to this whole thing. He swings an attack, then immediately backs down, as if hoping to shut it down before Mac can swing back:
swing 1
back-down 1
swing 2
back-down 2

Mac's response to this is steady and forceful. He does not back down. This seems like a more common townie trait. If I had to pick a scum between Mac and Sprityo, I would choose Sprityo.

His backdown #2 wasn't him going back on his reads though, it was him wanting to move on from stating his case because it was taxing argueing

This also feels a bit like a forced read to me, it feels like you're struggling for what to say, so you're just trying to find something you could say is suspicious, because I don't think your quotes match into your argument very well so it reads as if you made the case first and then tried to fit things into it as opposed to working bottom-up and seeing it first and then making the case

I felt like back down 2 was Sprityo attempting to shut the door on the whole issue, because he didn't want to continue engaging with Mac.
I did force myself to make a read of Mac and sprit (if that's what you mean), but I didn't have a conclusion going into it. It sort of evolved. Where else do my quotes not make since to you? I may have messed them up, or if not I can try to clarify.

I agree it's sprit trying to move on, I don't agree it was 'backing down' though, he was shutting himself off from argueing anymore about it but maintaining his stance

And no it was just that part, it feels like you were trying to twist what he did into some sort of case where you say he keeps backing down even though I don't think it fits properly

Also @M Plus 7 what do you think of robot this game right now? Hopefully that tag works but it didn't come up with the option menu thing so I'm not sure

I... am not sure. I liked her entrance and her attempts to seem grounded in the game struck me as sincere initially, but now I'm just like... I don't know. I'm not sure I like her treatment of Luna. What do you think of her?

She seems different to what I remember of her last game. Last game she listened to people's arguments, agreed, voted accordingly, then listened to counter-arguments, agreed, unvoted. It was like that all game with her. This game she's very much on her own, sort of in isolation from others' opinions. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

Yeah, I'm getting this impression too. But to be fair too she did against the grain things in Game 9 like vote for me on Day 1 and stuff like that.

She did seem more... turbulent that game maybe? I think that's what I'm picking up on. She seems more confident here.

[Tangrowth]

What about her treatment of luna don't you like M Plus 7?

Something about it bothers me; I can't quite put my finger on it. It reads like she knows Luna is bad or something. It reads like two scummates talking. I'm not even sure exactly why I get that impression.

I'll revisit and try to describe in detail assuming the impression still applies.

What do you make of it?

[Turnip Head]

Yeah *checks poll* my vote is still on Turnip Head.

[Infected_alien8_]

What about her treatment of luna don't you like M Plus 7?

Something about it bothers me; I can't quite put my finger on it. It reads like she knows Luna is bad or something. It reads like two scummates talking. I'm not even sure exactly why I get that impression.

I'll revisit and try to describe in detail assuming the impression still applies.

What do you make of it?

If anything I wonder if her defence of Luna seems a bit TMI but mostly that's because I don't understand her reasoning yet so I'll wait for that

[Tangrowth]

What about her treatment of luna don't you like M Plus 7?

Something about it bothers me; I can't quite put my finger on it. It reads like she knows Luna is bad or something. It reads like two scummates talking. I'm not even sure exactly why I get that impression.

I'll revisit and try to describe in detail assuming the impression still applies.

What do you make of it?

If anything I wonder if her defence of Luna seems a bit TMI but mostly that's because I don't understand her reasoning yet so I'll wait for that

I could see that too. I think if anything I take "Robot is scum" out of the interaction more than anything.

[Lunalee]

I... really wish speedchuck was in this game right now so I could ask him about Luna.

haha, he knows all and refuses to talk about the game.

[Tangrowth]

I... really wish speedchuck was in this game right now so I could ask him about Luna.

haha, he knows all and refuses to talk about the game.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention]

WHY DID YOU NOT PLAY THIS GAME

I NEED YOUR HELP IN READING YOUR WIFE PLEASEEEEEEEEE

[Infected_alien8_]

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

[Tangrowth]

Alien, what are your reads right now? Are you still TKing me?

[Tangrowth]

Oh fuck Marmot said he'd kill me if I reach 500 posts; I'm getting dangerously close to 450. I really shouldn't stick around.

[Lunalee]

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

Robot's cool. My first impression of her is good, but I haven't done any digging on her posts other that our interactions. I find it sort of strange that she asked for my opinion on the Sprit/Mac thing, then said I was reading too much into it though.

[Tangrowth]

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

Robot's cool. My first impression of her is good, but I haven't done any digging on her posts other that our interactions. I find it sort of strange that she asked for my opinion on the Sprit/Mac thing, then said I was reading too much into it though.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]

Help.

[Lunalee]

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

Robot's cool. My first impression of her is good, but I haven't done any digging on her posts other that our interactions. I find it sort of strange that she asked for my opinion on the Sprit/Mac thing, then said I was reading too much into it though.

@JaggedJimmyJay

Help.

[Infected_alien8_]

Alien, what are your reads right now? Are you still TKing me?

Yes

You and Luna are my top suspects as of right now
Aby feels off but I still feel like I need to see more from her
Waiting on robot's response to my question but her meta seems a bit different at least though I'm not sure whether that's significant for her
I don't understand Russ' argument on me because it feels like he's ignoring what I initially said but I'm not sure if I think it seems agendary or not but I'm waiting to watch him some more
Tsiah and Jay are still my town-reads
Everyone else is fairly neutral I think

[Tangrowth]

I'm sorry Luna, I just have no idea what to make of you right now, LOL. I NEED INPUT.

[Tangrowth]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

[Kylemii]

what's TKing

[Tangrowth]

Alien, what are your reads right now? Are you still TKing me?

Yes

You and Luna are my top suspects as of right now
Aby feels off but I still feel like I need to see more from her
Waiting on robot's response to my question but her meta seems a bit different at least though I'm not sure whether that's significant for her
I don't understand Russ' argument on me because it feels like he's ignoring what I initially said but I'm not sure if I think it seems agendary or not but I'm waiting to watch him some more
Tsiah and Jay are still my town-reads
Everyone else is fairly neutral I think

BUT I'M SO OBVIOUS TOWN B;'SARFASUKFGHVNASKUGHNADSLIFGJVMNALFW

Thanks though.

[Tangrowth]

what's TKing

Lol.

I'm just referring to another player in the WC1 game, TK5141. He relentlessly hounded me in that game pretty much declaring I was the last scum for cycles.

We were both town.

[Tangrowth]

what's TKing

Lol.

I'm just referring to another player in the WC1 game, TK5141. He relentlessly hounded me in that game pretty much declaring I was the last scum for cycles.

We were both town.

But you know what I FUCKING WON THAT GAME SO

[Infected_alien8_]

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

Robot's cool. My first impression of her is good, but I haven't done any digging on her posts other that our interactions. I find it sort of strange that she asked for my opinion on the Sprit/Mac thing, then said I was reading too much into it though.

What did you find strange about it?

[MacDougall]

Good morning friendos!

I did a quick catch up there and saw that sprityo has continued to just ruthlessly attack every single thing about every one of my posts as his self defense. I don't feel like I am in a very good position to further analyse his alignment based on how he is engaging with me because he is taking an "everything Mac is posting sucks" approach which given that I am a civ I can't help but feel he has to be making up completely. Especially since he, a guy who I suspected in the first place, is the only one who feels this way to this extent.

I mean there is not a single player in the game who would agree with sprityo's assessment in as much as how ferocious it is. Sure there are some players who have doubts about me and that's fine but sprityo has basically looked at every post and ripped every one of them apart with dismissive insults. Which I find, at best, to be petty and if civ, an irresponsible way to defend yourself. It's relatively admirable as Mafia though I suppose. I just personally don't see how taking a fixed position that the person suspecting you is scum and then proceeding to character assassinate everything about the person is likely to net success. Perhaps one would consider this an effective way to save one's own bacon yes?

Some other notes:

I, a person with a voiced suspicion of him, just happened to be his first ISO and he evidently believes he has found gold with it. The sheer chances of this are extremely low.

He subsequently has ISO read only one other player, Jay, who he gave a gold sticker to.

MP started off voting for him and moved his vote off with very weird reasoning and now is acting like the idea of a sprityo lynch is pants on head. This reminds me of when MP got himself caught out trying to save a scum teammate in Tree Mafia.

So the question to ask is:

Is sprityo mad that I scum read him and civvie tunnelling me?
Is sprityo a caught Mafia throwing out baseless accusations to discredit me?

I feel like there should be meta on both counts to analyse if anyone is want to do it. I have to head off on my morning commute so I won't be back for an hour or two. Obviously I'm not changing my vote.

PS. If anyone else wants me to comment on something just @ me and I will do it later. Sorry if I missed something.

[Tangrowth]

MP started off voting for him and moved his vote off with very weird reasoning and now is acting like the idea of a sprityo lynch is pants on head. This reminds me of when MP got himself caught out trying to save a scum teammate in Tree Mafia.

Lol get out of here there's no way you believe this part specifically.

[Lunalee]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

[Tangrowth]

COME AT ME MAC

*breathes fire everywhere*

[Tangrowth]

Actually that whole thing reads like bullshit. It's total agenda.

[VOTE: MACDOUGALL] aubergine

[Tangrowth]

I can't fathom Mac actually believes some of what he's saying there. He's bad.

[Infected_alien8_]

Actually that whole thing reads like bullshit. It's total agenda.

[VOTE: MACDOUGALL] aubergine

Can you be more specific?

[Tangrowth]

Mac and Robot scummates calling it now

[Lunalee]

Actually that whole thing reads like bullshit. It's total agenda.

[VOTE: MACDOUGALL] aubergine

LOL did you do this because Mac said, "I mean there is not a single player in the game who would agree with sprityo's assessment in as much as how ferocious it is"?

[Infected_alien8_]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

Why do you think he's Town?

[Tangrowth]

Actually that whole thing reads like bullshit. It's total agenda.

[VOTE: MACDOUGALL] aubergine

Can you be more specific?

Mac doesn't think this way in town. It's agenda.

It's hard to explain. Let me think.

Let me say it this way: It reads very much to me like a very carefully crafted opinion. It does not read genuine.

[Tangrowth]

Mac and Robot scummates calling it now

IF I'M FUCKING RIGHT ABOUT THIS I DESERVE SOME MEDALS

[Tangrowth]

Actually that whole thing reads like bullshit. It's total agenda.

[VOTE: MACDOUGALL] aubergine

LOL did you do this because Mac said, "I mean there is not a single player in the game who would agree with sprityo's assessment in as much as how ferocious it is"?

No, it's just... the whole thing is so strategic. I don't believe it. Mac doesn't believe what he's saying there. He's not actually trying to assess sprityo. I'm sure of it.

[Tangrowth]

I want Mac dead. Now.

[Infected_alien8_]

I want Mac dead. Now.

I don't believe you

[Tangrowth]

I want Mac dead. Now.

I don't believe you

Are you done? I'm tired of this.

[Infected_alien8_]

I love this emotes lol

[Infected_alien8_]

these*

[Tangrowth]

Good morning friendos!

I did a quick catch up there and saw that sprityo has continued to just ruthlessly attack every single thing about every one of my posts as his self defense. I don't feel like I am in a very good position to further analyse his alignment based on how he is engaging with me because he is taking an "everything Mac is posting sucks" approach which given that I am a civ I can't help but feel he has to be making up completely. Especially since he, a guy who I suspected in the first place, is the only one who feels this way to this extent.

I mean there is not a single player in the game who would agree with sprityo's assessment in as much as how ferocious it is. Sure there are some players who have doubts about me and that's fine but sprityo has basically looked at every post and ripped every one of them apart with dismissive insults. Which I find, at best, to be petty and if civ, an irresponsible way to defend yourself. It's relatively admirable as Mafia though I suppose. I just personally don't see how taking a fixed position that the person suspecting you is scum and then proceeding to character assassinate everything about the person is likely to net success. Perhaps one would consider this an effective way to save one's own bacon yes?

Some other notes:

I, a person with a voiced suspicion of him, just happened to be his first ISO and he evidently believes he has found gold with it. The sheer chances of this are extremely low.

He subsequently has ISO read only one other player, Jay, who he gave a gold sticker to.

MP started off voting for him and moved his vote off with very weird reasoning and now is acting like the idea of a sprityo lynch is pants on head. This reminds me of when MP got himself caught out trying to save a scum teammate in Tree Mafia.

So the question to ask is:

Is sprityo mad that I scum read him and civvie tunnelling me?
Is sprityo a caught Mafia throwing out baseless accusations to discredit me?

I feel like there should be meta on both counts to analyse if anyone is want to do it. I have to head off on my morning commute so I won't be back for an hour or two. Obviously I'm not changing my vote.

PS. If anyone else wants me to comment on something just @ me and I will do it later. Sorry if I missed something.

just LOL even read it! His tone is condescending even!

I just can't even. This is not a townie.

[Lunalee]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

Why do you think he's Town?

He's just too town to not be town. Does that make any since?

[Tangrowth]

Try to put yourself in Mac's shoes if you're town.

I try doing that.

Then I try to see if THAT'S how I think of sprityo.

Nah. That's not what I would post. It's an agenda post.

[Infected_alien8_]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

Why do you think he's Town?

He's just too town to not be town. Does that make any since?

Can you be more specific? What about him is town exactly?

[Tangrowth]

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

Also sorry to ignore this Luna got caught up in my own well you can see.

Let me post a new reads list. I'll do that now.

[Infected_alien8_]

Try to put yourself in Mac's shoes if you're town.

I try doing that.

Then I try to see if THAT'S how I think of sprityo.

Nah. That's not what I would post. It's an agenda post.

So you feel it's agenda post because you don't agree with his assessment of sprit or am I completely misunderstanding you?