DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Kylemii]

i can't believe this

[sprityo]

the poll doesn't keep the votes in chronological order so i can't tell without digging who voted alien first, i was just hoping to find out who the earliest voters for him were

do you remember what order you voted for alien in, abyssum?

You may unfortunately have to aubergine your way through it but I’m pretty sure I was last.

You weren't last. You were like 6th at worst. Kyle, Tsaiah and I think sprityo all came after you.

I am pretty sure it was like

Russ first
M Plus 7 and/or abyssum
JaggedJimmyJay
Mac
Colin
Sprityo
Kyle/Tsaiah

i was defintely 4th/5th in this order

[MacDougall]

Already went and checked and have a more recent post my dude

[sprityo]

Already went and checked and have a more recent post my dude

yeah i seent it

[sprityo]

Interactions of alien and sprityo

Spoiler: show

Things alien said to/about sprityo

Spoiler: show

Colin - light Town although I don't remember why I have that in my head
Kyle - I don't remember any of their posts, null read
Marmot - Same as Kyle
Robot - Null, nothing alignment-indicative so far
Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually
Spirit - Same as Kyle and Marmot
Turnip - Same as Robot

...Poop.

alien prods sprityo about his Mac case, suggesting the suspicions may not indicate mafia alignment. He does something very similar when sprityo reviews my Day 0 DH case. It's barely a nice look in that alien may not be inclined to send his teammate deeper into the MacChipper. That's perhaps a stretch.

alien stood in sprityo's defense when Lunalee voiced suspicion of the latter, and then he turned that into suspicion of Luna. This might be an okay look for both of them in that alien is positioning himself to blame Luna if sprityo is mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Neutral
Sprit - don't remember any of their posts other than when they were attacking Mac and I didn't really feel anything particularly alignment-indicative about it other than it felt like the ratio of defence:figuring Mac's alignment out was a bit biased to defence, so minor point against him for that. M Plus 7 said they're low hanging fruit so I want to give them the benefit of the doubt a bit and wait to see more content from them to form a proper opinion. Out of the neutrals he's probably the closest to being in the Slight Mafia category

Time for color coding. I'm a bit peeved that on balance, this blurb is negative (plenty of red and yellow, no green), but alien still decided to stick him in the neutral pile. That's not great.

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

He seemed to forget his own fake suspicions by this point.

I said this was decent for abyssum before, and the same applies to sprityo. I say so tentatively in both cases.

Spoiler: show

COLIN TOWN
JAY TOWN
LUNA TOWN
M PLUS 7 SCUM
RUSS SCUM
SPRIT NO IDEA NOBODY'S TELLING ME THE CASE ON THEM
MAC TOWN
ROBOT TOWN
DH MAFIA
umm, give me more names

Can't help but notice the standout. A bit ew.

~~~

Things sprityo said to/about alien not already covered

Spoiler: show

Anyone got anything for me while im here? its 2 am and im about to go to sleep.

Uhhh what do you think of... anyone? Like GTH reads of everyone actually? That'd be super helpful. They don't even have to be informed.

abyssum -- ISO
ColinIsCool -- ISO
DharmaHelper -- ISO
Infected_alien8_ -- ISO
JaggedJimmyJay -- ISO
Kylemii -- ISO
Lunalee -- ISO
MacDougall -- ISO
Marmot -- ISO
M Plus 7 -- ISO
RobotNerd277 -- ISO
Russtifinko -- ISO
Tsaiah -- ISO
Turnip Head -- ISO

When prompted for reads, he stuck alien in a pretty huge pile of orange names. To this point he hadn't voiced any suspicions of alien, so I don't know why this and most other reads are what they are.

Spoiler: show

Mac’s recent posts have softened my image on him. I think he’s actually playing to something I can agree and work with.

Note to self to go back and read Russ’ alien iso

I'm not thrilled that sprityo felt the need to say this. And then...



15 hours later to be exact:

Spoiler: show

This post in which mac goes through individually his options he put forth for an information lynch, he backs up how that will benefit the town as a whole and I thought that looked good on him

Do you think we should follow the advice he laid out in that post?

I think its a valid option, and technically appeals to me through mac’s eyes.

However, it can, and could very well be an easy way to get pressure off himself. In where mac thought he could get an easy lynch out of me, he was met with resistance and now has to backtrack to another lynch. Only this time he adds understandable reasons it’s to lynch XYZ unlike previously.

Hey look he is doing that thing that Russ said made Alien bad!!!

Oh man I’m gonna have a field day when I actually get to read that damn ISO

Spoiler: show

Alien has continues to draw discussion over things that suggest he’s scum, yet I don’t see the big “oh he’s definitely scum” thing I’ve seen between mac and myself. Or jay to DharmaHelper earlier

What?

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

Scum
Scum

Based on what? I see zero development in this read.

Spoiler: show

With that now done, I’m putting my money where my gun to head is

[VOTE: alien] aubergine

This all bugs me.

Spoiler: show

I'm a bit... perturbed at sprityo voting Alien. Not sure what to do with that.

Pray tell, why?

I just read the ISO Russ did and it’s solid enough. His introductory segment wasn’t really related to the overall content, more so like a presenter catching the audience into listening with a good personal story. I got the general idea of his back and forth self countering color dealio. And it makes sense, but I didn’t but personally find it convincing. What I did find convincing was the statistics he used when showing when alien “buddies” jay. (Another good presenting strategy, I’m studying this rn in school). 23 sounds like a lot but i’d Also like to know what it is in comparison to someone else in the game. I find the “scum asking questions to stay relevant” strategy a very common one at that so it’s a good lead to follow. What really sold me however was the waffling. Particularly the statement of why would you back down on someone who you think slipped? I want to read it again to make sure but from how it was given by russ, there wasn’t a super good reason not to pursue the line of thinking.

sprityo finally talks about Russ's case, and is on board. He'd already voted at this point, and he'd already given alien a scum read in the GTH exercise. I don't really understand where sprityo's head is at chronologically speaking. The read is difficult to follow. That doesn't have to be bad, but it's certainly confusing.

~~~

Conclusion

Like I said, the prevailing emotion I feel emerging from this review is confusion. I don't really understand what sprityo was thinking on the matter of alien. When sprityo provided reads lists of any type, alien was given a negative designation. At zero points though before sprityo finally read the Russ case (after considerable delays and promises), he didn't say anything about alien to indicate what his suspicions were. On the brighter side, alien's posts seem to bear out a little better for him.

You have a lot to answer for sprityo.

so let me address my alien interaction spoilers

1. I hadn't looked into relatively any other player in the game when MP asked me for the GTH read. I had been reading the thread however so there was a lot of negative connotations i was getting from robot/alien/dharmahelper, all courtesy of jay whom i also had ISO'd. Luna struck me as non-commital/absent in assessing the thread as indicated when she posted:

Spoiler: show

@Lunalee

I wanna hear more from you! Specifically, how do you feel about the spirityo v Mac thing? This is a good generic question for anyone to answer, but I've got N O T H I N G on Lunalee so I wanna specifically hear what you have to say.

Hi RobotNerd, thanks for the prompt. I have trouble finding where I should give input in games like this with a lot of experienced players weighing in.

This looks like the post that started it all: A very innocent comment by sprityo about Mac not being actually green on MP's read list.
Here's why MacDougall dislikes sprityo:
Sprityo has avoided heat in ways he probably shouldn't have I want to see examples of this, because I don't see it in sprit's ISO.
sprityo responds to Mac's suspicions by saying "it was a joke" and "I'm bad at mafia"

Then there's Sprit's blow-up post and Mac's reaction to it. At first glance, it honestly looks like two civvs who don't understand each other.

But I can't help but notice how sprityo is reacting to this whole thing. He swings an attack, then immediately backs down, as if hoping to shut it down before Mac can swing back:
swing 1
back-down 1
swing 2
back-down 2

Mac's response to this is steady and forceful. He does not back down. This seems like a more common townie trait. If I had to pick a scum between Mac and Sprityo, I would choose Sprityo.

I had also directly addressed her about this, to no response. She also went back to clarify that she doesnt see me as town, more so me and mac are both passionate. Just something about it didnt rub me the right way.

And kyle I just had a general unknown feelings about. he hadnt posted anything productive outside of a few questions in the hours prior to that list. other than that he might as well be turniphead2.0. The only big thing kyle had looking back now is his ISO on page 20. I didnt even realize he had posted an ISO by the time i put out that list on page 29.

2. Yes yes, i am a busy man. i know. i also sleep at different times then you all.

3. And lets see: (it was an odd day so i had just gotten off work about 2 hours prior. the second post was 15 hours later) yeah that accounts for my sleep and gym/dinner time. I dont see your point at addressing this.

4. To clarify, it's not like how when i looked at mac i had it set in my heart (at that time) that he was scum beyond a doubt. Jay's pursuit of DH had me perceiving jay thought of him as very likely bad and that's why he was pushing him. The interactions multiple people had with alien were more about trying to figure out what alien was saying because they were suspicious, while no one was in the mode of outright "this guy is scum."

5. You asked for a Gun to Head,either or, not an explanation. I was on the fence on Colin, and a little over the fence on alien.

6. Why would i call someone scum, and then continue voting the guy i said was town? where is the logic in that. Not to mention mac still had what, 2-3 votes on him at that time? Mac even later point out his distress to luna for keeping her vote on him. Why did it bug you exactly?

7. After the GTH it only made sense I voted for alien in conjunction with getting votes off of mac. Could i have voted for robot? maybe, but i also previously said why didn't.

conclusions: albeit i never engaged with alien directly, I paid attention enough to see other's didnt like him, and Russ' ISO confirmed for me.

[Tangrowth]

2

Your special prize. I recommend you monitor the volume for your own sake.

YESSSS ANOTHER VOCAROO



I can’t stop laughing.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, I really missed these. Where’s my special prize?

[Tangrowth]

*tries to get Jay to sing more peer pressure style*

MAFIA KARAOKE



Now I know you can’t resist this one.

I can NEVER do karoake (and I pride myself on the fact that I have yet to embarrass myself so) because my singing voice is awful and I’m way too anxious and blafhdiqpxj... but admittedly if you got enough alcohol in me I might just totally simultaneous duet this one with you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ve no shame at this point, but I will spare the rest of our good players any further awkward cringing.

[MacDougall]

Whenever I hear Distant Sun on the radio in the car I turn it up very loud and try to sing the chorus loud enough so the cars stopped at the red lights next to me can hear it.

[Tangrowth]

I’ve no shame at this point, but I will spare the rest of our good players any further awkward cringing.

BOOOO

ENCORE ENCORE

[Tangrowth]

Whenever I hear Distant Sun on the radio in the car I turn it up very loud and try to sing the chorus loud enough so the cars stopped at the red lights next to me can hear it.

That’s the only correct response.

[MacDougall]

I presume hearing Distant Sun on the radio isn't something that would happen in the US much?

[ColinIsCool]

So, about Robot ...

here have my notes sheet that I decided like halfway through that I would post

Spoiler: show

#1065 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 22#p474422
DH keeps commenting on how he hasn't read the thread. This is annoying. I do agree that calling someone a pussy or a coward isn't the same as calling them mafia. That being said, I think JaggedJimmyJay is anything but that.

I'm not liking the JJJ + DH interactions? It reads as both townies, but being really distracting. I'm mostly just annoyed about that, but it doesn't read as scummy from either party.

#1094 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p474455

ooooh spirityo has an iso wall of macdougall. Saves me the trouble for now!

Wait, has macdougall not actually posted a bunch of solid argument stuff? I figured it was somewhere in the 7 pages I hadn't read.

I'm not liking this "only person I have a negative read on" bit from spirityo but I'm still not a fan of mac. There's a lot to pick at in this thread. MP's willingness to throw "town" at people, DH's unwillingness to read the thread etc. Anyways, the end of spirityo's post is a bit yelly but he makes a point against Mac that I agree with. I still want to do my own iso because ~bad vibes~

#1104 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 7b#p474465

Agree with Kylemii. I hope there's an explanatino for how on eart you get a townread on DH.

pseudo-random-neuron-firing -> where's tsaiah?

#1114 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p474480

wonderful, mac responded to spirityo's post. I should also answer those questions when I get around to it, because idk who I believe less tbh, spirityo or mac.

I feel like I should address the "melted like butter on a hot plate" thing but idk what to really say. I intend to take more of a look at Mac later? I probably should have done this last night instead of getting distracted but also whatever the past is in the past.

I... keep skimming over MP's posts. Sorry! I'll probably read what you have to say... eventually!

What about the 'only person I have a negative read on' part don't you like?

maintaining as neutral a stance as possible is pretty scummy. only disliking one person is just barely a step above that. I consider townreads not super relevant to that because it's much easier to say you like someone than you dislike them, you know?

that being said, spirityo hasn't like, demonstrated serious tunnel vision. just not-evaluated-the-rest-of-game vision, which is a pretty reasonable state of being. If they don't start reevaluating townreads, then we'll talk more.

Up to this point in her ISO, "maintaining as neutral a stance as possible" is pretty much how I would describe her reads. Go ahead and check it yourself, this is fairly early on in it, but it seems like while there are some slightly wary comments directed toward MP and DH at this point, almost none of it is "I think this person is scummy." I want to know if others feel the same way though.

[ColinIsCool]

I feel like I should comment on being accused as scum but like, idk what you want out of me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I presume hearing Distant Sun on the radio isn't something that would happen in the US much?

I never have. I’ve heard only three Crowded House tracks on the radio before: Don’t Dream It’s Over, Something So Strong, and Weather With You. Only DDIO is commonplace.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Robot was snooping in here earlier and didn’t say anything.

[ColinIsCool]

abyssum - remarks their perspective on what's going on, and I found their insights useful to analyzing the thread iirc, (though I can't recall an example of that aff the top of my head.
ColinIsCool - Asks a lot of questions and is involved in conversation. Seems okay to me.
DharmaHelper - So I'm sure this read should change if I had read the last 20 pages, but at that point, DH hadn't done anything particularly useful? He seemed like he was gearing up for a Big Statement though.
Infected_alien8_ - Alien... annoys me tbh. Particularly wrt how he kept putting pressure on me and luna that one time.
JaggedJimmyJay - Helpful, asking questions of people, putting pressure down.
Kylemii - I don't have a solid read on them yet. I only recall them talking about one post that took them 3 hours to make. I don't remember what the post was.
Lunalee - I liked her response to my question about mac vs spirityo, and that's what decided my vote.
MacDougall - my negative read on mac initially came from early day 0 joking, and then asserting that he was never joking and this frustrated me. Afterwards he's been a good townie, contributing to game decently well.
Marmot - I haven't seen any Marmot posts.
M Plus 7 - Talkative as usual. day 0 was really willing to give out townreads. that (thankfully) didn't really keep up once he got the power to vote, putting pressure in places he wanted people to talk from.
Russtifinko - Likes ISOs and walls and I appreciate their analyses.
sprityo - In the spate against mac, spirityo came out looking worse.
Tsaiah - On day 0 she seemed super excitable and pure as fuck.
Turnip Head - Not particularly memorable. I don't see much in the way of serious posts in TH's iso.

I'm sympathetic to this list because Robot is new, it's early, and she's busy, but man, does it feel like there's a single ounce of suspicion in this? The yellows and oranges are there by default; sprit is in red as a result of an easy binay where Mac vs. sprit has a winner and a loser. I don't think I like this.

[ColinIsCool]

Robot also wasn't here to interact with Alien at EOD, so my theory for snuffing out his partners won't extend in that direction, unless she just wasn't posting? But I'm going to check that out now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ve two issues with that reads list:

1. alien is yellow.

2. There is so much green.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also her Tsaiah read is just a copy/paste of MP’s Tsaiah read.

[ColinIsCool]

I think this page is really where Robot starts feeling the heat, starting around 8 p.m. EST or so. If my theory is correct, then Robot wouldn't have wasted time attempting to persuade teammates to vote in his favor, he would have put energy into directly responding to people he felt he could genuinely persuade.

Here Alien seems to be angling to convince Sprit to vote Mac. Townlook for Sprit.

One of many examples of Alien spending time arguing with Mac. Townlook for Mac.

Clarifying/arguing with MP. Townlook for MP. This continues for several posts, so I can't even tinfoil MP as scum even if I wanted to.

Argue with Tsaiah. Points for Tsaiah.

Attempt to persuade me. Points me.

This was less revealing than I hoped it would be; however, it either helps out sprit or shows them as attempting to coordinate votes in-thread, and I think it puts Tsaiah firmly in the town-core. I think this helps ward off from any tinfoil that people may be tempted toward.

[ColinIsCool]

Jay's absence from that EOD gives me the willies, tbh.

[MacDougall]

I’ve two issues with that reads list:

1. alien is yellow.

2. There is so much green.

How is the fact that she has that many town reads a bad thing when in the GTH you had even more?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ve two issues with that reads list:

1. alien is yellow.

2. There is so much green.

How is the fact that she has that many town reads a bad thing when in the GTH you had even more?

GTH reads are binary. Her rainbow has five levels.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay's absence from that EOD gives me the willies, tbh.

It was board game night with my local friends. That takes priority over Mafia.

[MacDougall]

I’ve two issues with that reads list:

1. alien is yellow.

2. There is so much green.

How is the fact that she has that many town reads a bad thing when in the GTH you had even more?

GTH reads are binary. Her rainbow has five levels.

Alien being yellow is weird yes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Moreover on that reads list:

Given the blurbs Robot wrote for each of the oranges and yellows -- it doesn't make sense to me that they're positioned the way they are. TH's blurb looks yellow and alien's blurb looks orange. The DH blurb isn't that different from the Kyle or TH blurbs, but the color is different.

[MacDougall]

Jay no dig up

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay no dig up

do wat

[Marmot]

aye aye aye

[MacDougall]

Jay no dig up

do wat

You are reading into the colour choices and positioning.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay no dig up

do wat

You are reading into the colour choices and positioning.

What else are you supposed to do with a rainbow list?

[MacDougall]

Touche

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One of many examples of Alien spending time arguing with Mac. Townlook for Mac.

Could you expand on this one, Colin? Do you not believe any mafia teammate of Mac would by default have to argue with him early and often?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can you summarise the questionable interactions I was responsible for so I can reply on my phone only having to quote one post please?

You never did anything with this.

[MacDougall]

Can you summarise the questionable interactions I was responsible for so I can reply on my phone only having to quote one post please?

You never did anything with this.

I wrote a post on my phone but then when I hit submit it logged me out and I didn't bother writing it again.

It was something like "there's nothing really to answer for because all the stuff that makes me look bad was stuff he did and the stuff that you say looks bad on me just does."

If you want to find evidence of me being a civ it's elsewhere. Like everywhere elsewhere. It'll come out in due time.

On a different subject Turnip Head is town. My cop check revealed him as such.

[Tangrowth]

I presume hearing Distant Sun on the radio isn't something that would happen in the US much?

I never have. I’ve heard only three Crowded House tracks on the radio before: Don’t Dream It’s Over, Something So Strong, and Weather With You. Only DDIO is commonplace.

Same.

I’ve also heard It’s Only Natural once.

[Tangrowth]

I’ll do serious mafia things later after brunch and some work.

[Tangrowth]

Now I’m going to listen to Crowded House all day today.

[Tangrowth]

And I no joke get ridiculously excited every time I hear Don’t Dream It’s Over at the grocery store. I don’t even care.

I guess I also get just as excited when they play The Cure and other things but yeah.

[MacDougall]

I presume hearing Distant Sun on the radio isn't something that would happen in the US much?

I never have. I’ve heard only three Crowded House tracks on the radio before: Don’t Dream It’s Over, Something So Strong, and Weather With You. Only DDIO is commonplace.

One of our local radio stations has probably 12 Crowded House songs in rotation perennially. Crowded House are a very big deal here.

[ColinIsCool]

One of many examples of Alien spending time arguing with Mac. Townlook for Mac.

Could you expand on this one, Colin? Do you not believe any mafia teammate of Mac would by default have to argue with him early and often?

No, he would, but I think in this context his survival instincts would kick in and he would spend time attempting to persuade others to not vote him, which these interactions didn’t accomplish even for an observer.

[Tangrowth]

I presume hearing Distant Sun on the radio isn't something that would happen in the US much?

I never have. I’ve heard only three Crowded House tracks on the radio before: Don’t Dream It’s Over, Something So Strong, and Weather With You. Only DDIO is commonplace.

One of our local radio stations has probably 12 Crowded House songs in rotation perennially. Crowded House are a very big deal here.

Too bad our radio stations aren’t that awesome.

[Tangrowth]

Top Crowded House songs?

*brain explodes*

Here are my top 10 right now anyway:

1. Four Seasons in One Day
2. Distant Sun
3. Private Universe
4. Fall At Your Feet
5. Nails in My Feet
6. Don’t Stop Now
7. Kare Kare
8. Don’t Dream It’s Over
9. Never Be the Same
10. Italian Plastic

I’ll stop trying to turn this into RYM Mafia now, for real.

[Tangrowth]

Actually this could never be RYM Mafia unless rundontwalk was playing so he cold tunnel all the new people.

[Tangrowth]

Actually this could never be RYM Mafia unless rundontwalk was playing so he cold tunnel all the new people.

And Sloonei would need to be actually playing and we would need some role play a la Neil Hartley and all of that.

I will stop.

I actually should be at computer finally soon so I’ll do things then lol.

[Tangrowth]

I'm at 950 posts now.

I have to at least crack four-digits before the scum successfully kill me so I can say I finally cracked a four-digit post count in one game on The Syndicate.

[Tangrowth]

Also because I feel like [mention]Russtifinko[/mention] hasn't gotten enough love for his amazing case that started it all...

RUSS GOAT

Now I'm going to go in-depth read all of your interactive analyses, Jay.

[ColinIsCool]

I might get to 200 in this game if I try hard