Hogwarts Mafia - END

[Long Con]

(okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Ok, you do it. Discuss reasons why Colin might do that.

Well he could be town wanting to get confirmed, but as Quin pointed out, why? He's barely even been suspected at all until now -- and what's more, he had just pointed out his fear that rezzes were either gone or in the wrong hands. If he's town he can't count on a rez, by his own admission. He can only rely on a rez if he's bad and knows his team has one. Whether he has some way to appear civ upon flip, or whether his team will rez him as a confirmed baddie, I can't say, but there doesn't really seem to be a town explanation.

Ok, thank you. That seems remarkably similar to my own post that is your top suspected post on the Page of Sin.

No, don't think so. You didn't point out the thing I did that if he's town he can't count on a rez. Your post painted much more of a bleak picture of a baddie fooling us all with a fake flip, and so I came out of your post interpreting more of an overall thesis of "don't lynch Colin he's tricking us" whereas I am saying we should just lynch him because he's bad and if he has a fake flip we'll just have to deal.

The "baddies have the rez" thing wasn't on my mind, that's true. Since we're analyzing Colin's intentions here, I'd say it wasn't on Civ!his (did I do that right?) mind either. So it's debatable whether that's useful.

Both our posts discussed Civ reasons for his play, and found them coming up short, and then we both looked at benefits of doing it as a baddie, with a nod to a possible Seemer aspect in his lynch. How does my post "paint a bleak picture of a baddie fooling us with a fake slip" when yours says "Whether he has some way to appear civ upon flip..." yet presumably avoids those connotations?

Anyway, be that as it may, I can't help you reading my post that way, but I don't recall having a huge "don't lynch Colin" push in that post. My post was geared more to discussing a couple of things and leaving it for Colin to take up before going further.

big post with long con in it

I didn't get that subtle defence or whatever from LC at all. Dunno how you interpreted it that way.

So anyway why isn't your vote on Colin? same goes for [mention]Long Con[/mention]

I have found Colin's play pretty strong so far, and I have no intention of voting him because I can create a theory about his strange request that shows him as bad. Like I said, that wasn't the purpose of my post - to vilify Colin. I want him to respond to it before I decide anything.

I don't really have any suspicion of Colin apart from it.

[nutella]

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Do you have specific reasons for this speculation?

[poutanko]

[mention]timmer[/mention] now explain how the hell you vouched Bullz if you're blocked??

I thought I was missing something since people dropped interest on Bullz/Tim after the talk with Jay claiming to block him and ended up with lynching Soneji. Explain the logic here, I'm not getting it??

[Long Con]

K, so my Pat's game is over, so I can get back to this.

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

And long con, really? That post of mine that you said you found troublesome? I was describing my job. I was at work. Its what I do.

I'm sorry I have no major ideas to push. I'm clearly not cut out for this.

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Duuude, I was kidding around. I'm not going to vote you because you are a psycho killer in REAL LIFE. This is Mafia.

Seriously, that wasn't me coming after you. Like I said after reading your ISO, I don't suspect you.

[nutella]

big post with long con in it

I didn't get that subtle defence or whatever from LC at all. Dunno how you interpreted it that way.

So anyway why isn't your vote on Colin? same goes for @Long Con

because you're bad

I'm not.

[poutanko]

[VOTE: timmer] aubergine

[nutella]

wait timmer what the fuck is your job

[Long Con]

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Do you have specific reasons for this speculation?

Just saw this... lots to process. Look bad to you, nut?

[MacDougall]

[mention]nutella[/mention] the read doesn't indicate that one has to cancel something out. The idea is that they make an observation and demonstrate both ends of it. In this case what he has done is observe that my suggestion could be interesting, or might be nothing. That way both people who agree with me, and people who disagree, are want to agree with him effectively causing no friction whatsoever.

And I'm gonna take that most recent Timmer post as an indie claim.

[poutanko]

K, so my Pat's game is over, so I can get back to this.

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

And long con, really? That post of mine that you said you found troublesome? I was describing my job. I was at work. Its what I do.

I'm sorry I have no major ideas to push. I'm clearly not cut out for this.

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Duuude, I was kidding around. I'm not going to vote you because you are a psycho killer in REAL LIFE. This is Mafia.

Seriously, that wasn't me coming after you. Like I said after reading your ISO, I don't suspect you.

Explain how?

[nutella]

And I'm gonna take that most recent Timmer post as an indie claim.

Makes about as much sense as anything can at this point.

[Long Con]

K, so my Pat's game is over, so I can get back to this.

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

And long con, really? That post of mine that you said you found troublesome? I was describing my job. I was at work. Its what I do.

I'm sorry I have no major ideas to push. I'm clearly not cut out for this.

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Duuude, I was kidding around. I'm not going to vote you because you are a psycho killer in REAL LIFE. This is Mafia.

Seriously, that wasn't me coming after you. Like I said after reading your ISO, I don't suspect you.

Explain how?

Well, I looked at each of his posts as "does this look like it comes from a Civ perspective?" and I was pretty satisfied with his level of quality information seeking, pressure applying, and reactions.

Is there a different kind of explanation you need? Are you saying that Timmer's posts are so malodorous that any reading should send my finger to his voting button?

[nutella]

Take note everybody, LC likes to send his finger to malodorous locations

[Long Con]

Take note everybody, LC likes to send his finger to malodorous locations

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

[Quin]

Here's how it went down from my perspective, one mental state at a time.

1. Bullzeye voted for nova.
2. Timmer and a few others found Bullzeye's vote extremely suspicious.
3. Nova was killed and flipped bad.
4. Some people (myself included) suspect Bullzeye even more, thinking that he placed a vote on a teammate.
5. Timmer comes out with a 180 on Bullzeye, calling him his top civ read after the events of the night but not due to a cop check.
6. I look at the list of abilities to see what might explain this that's not cop-ish per se. I notice the one that tracks which player a player targeted, and it occurs to me that perhaps Bullzeye vigged nova since he presumably suspected him, and perhaps timmer tracked Bullzeye since he suspected him, and saw that he targeted nova, and is now townclearing Bullzeye as the vig.
7. I accept this and decide to townread both bullzeye and timmer based on this interpretation.
8. The topic comes up again and Jay questions how timmer could know anything and says that he blocked timmer.
9. I say "wouldn't he not have gotten a result at all if he were blocked?"
10. That turns out to be moot as timmer admits that it was not based on anything he did at all, it was just based on something that happened (i.e. nova's death).
11. I figure that timmer had just made an educated guess that bullzeye vigged nova and decided to townclear him. Since it made so much sense to me when I was investigating back when I thought timmer actually knew something, I figured that I still believed it made sense even though it turned out timmer didn't actually know, and I continued to agree with timmer/believe that bullzeye killed nova.
12. For a while I still figured that this looked good for timmer. I no longer feel like I have much justification for that; he could easily have scum motivation for pulling his 180 on bullzeye in the way that he did.

[mention]timmer[/mention]

does number 5 come from any sort of info you got?

[poutanko]

[mention]Long Con[/mention]Point out which posts of his that look good to you. You didn't even think about how weird him vouching for Bullz just like that? Why?

[Quin]

I think I know what timmer is talking about, and timmer should retract that top civ read on Bullzeye.

[Quin]

Maybe. It's a confusing mess in my head.

[MacDougall]

Clue us in Mr. Civ.

[Quin]

Clue us in Mr. Civ.

I want him to answer my question first.

[Long Con]

@Long ConPoint out which posts of his that look good to you. You didn't even think about how weird him vouching for Bullz just like that? Why?

Well, I don't know why you'd say I "didn't even think about" his Bullz vouch, when I specifically pinpointed that as the most interesting part of the ISO. But ok, I'll have a look and let you into my mindset. Gimme a min.

[MacDougall]

I think Timmer's plea to emotion was pretty sincere tbh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

If you are a member of the mafia team and you just typed this into our beautiful game thread, then you deserve to be modkilled. It's not ideal from a civilian either, as you've shamed people who are merely trying their best and threatened "I'm prob done for good". That's not cool. I understand though that on the civilian side, it can be more difficult to shed that emotion in a heated moment.

I am inclined to view this as civilian frustration expressed in an unfortunate manner. I will vote elsewhere.

[Long Con]

Skimming through to catch up... Mac's focus on the chance that we are not in fact down two dead baddies is interesting, to say the least, but I'm not sure where to go with it . I'll admit I'm at a loss in the game right now... my suspicions have flopped, my thoughts on lc last night make no sense to me now, I'm going to watch the pats/packers game and then regroup later tonight.

Let's start here and go backwards, because starting at the beginning of Day 0 or whatever is lame because posts back then are extra-fluffy and hard to judge. This is the post Mac called out the Hitler tell on. I don't really see the positive/negative thing that is the basis of the 'tell', because I don't see anything I'd rate "positive" or "negative". Pretty uniformly grey, so I don't understand how Mac decided to apply it.

But now, with Timmer's "The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad."... I mean, that is ALMOST a contrast to what he said earlier, "Mac's focus on the chance that we are not in fact down two dead baddies is interesting, to say the least, but I'm not sure where to go with it ". I say 'almost' because I now see that it's only a contrast when I put my own spin on what Timmer was saying earlier. I took it to mean "I don't know what this is, but it has my interest", but I guess it could mean "I'm interested because I have a knowledge-angle on this same thing".

This disrupted my thing I was doing, so I'll post it now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

This is the one option for which I feel exclusively comfortable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no idea what timmer is talking about with the speculations and theories regarding the setup, and I have my doubts that any of it is correct, but I don't think it makes him look bad. When I say to myself "timmer the mafioso is promoting these hokey notions", the only response that I can generate is "...whhhyyyy???"

If it's a strategy of the mafia team then I don't know what the hell it is.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

This is the one option for which I feel exclusively comfortable.

How's that again? He's said practically nothing. Is this a lapluie suspicion?

[timmer]

Here's how it went down from my perspective, one mental state at a time.

1. Bullzeye voted for nova.
2. Timmer and a few others found Bullzeye's vote extremely suspicious.
3. Nova was killed and flipped bad.
4. Some people (myself included) suspect Bullzeye even more, thinking that he placed a vote on a teammate.
5. Timmer comes out with a 180 on Bullzeye, calling him his top civ read after the events of the night but not due to a cop check.
6. I look at the list of abilities to see what might explain this that's not cop-ish per se. I notice the one that tracks which player a player targeted, and it occurs to me that perhaps Bullzeye vigged nova since he presumably suspected him, and perhaps timmer tracked Bullzeye since he suspected him, and saw that he targeted nova, and is now townclearing Bullzeye as the vig.
7. I accept this and decide to townread both bullzeye and timmer based on this interpretation.
8. The topic comes up again and Jay questions how timmer could know anything and says that he blocked timmer.
9. I say "wouldn't he not have gotten a result at all if he were blocked?"
10. That turns out to be moot as timmer admits that it was not based on anything he did at all, it was just based on something that happened (i.e. nova's death).
11. I figure that timmer had just made an educated guess that bullzeye vigged nova and decided to townclear him. Since it made so much sense to me when I was investigating back when I thought timmer actually knew something, I figured that I still believed it made sense even though it turned out timmer didn't actually know, and I continued to agree with timmer/believe that bullzeye killed nova.
12. For a while I still figured that this looked good for timmer. I no longer feel like I have much justification for that; he could easily have scum motivation for pulling his 180 on bullzeye in the way that he did.

@timmer

does number 5 come from any sort of info you got?

Gah. So I came out in favor of bullz because of a combination of my night action, which i knew had been unsuccessful but not why, and the people who died. I was able to make some educated guesses based on the deaths that night, when my lack of success was factored in, knowing what I knew.

I hadn't anticipated that I had been blocked, and mostly hedged jjj's post about it because I hadn't meant for people to start revealing their info publicly and I felt bad that he had said it.

But I stuck my thoughts on bullz because of a new educated guess in light of me being blocked, I kind of remade the puzzle and it still worked in his favor, in my mind.

But.... the thought that the dead baddies may not be bad is something I most definitely had not thought of, and it has me convinced that there is a third party killing role.

I'd rather not say more because I'd rather keep my shit locked up a bit. But I don't think those dead baddies are necessarily bad and I'm not sure they were killed by a vig.

[timmer]

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

If you are a member of the mafia team and you just typed this into our beautiful game thread, then you deserve to be modkilled. It's not ideal from a civilian either, as you've shamed people who are merely trying their best and threatened "I'm prob done for good". That's not cool. I understand though that on the civilian side, it can be more difficult to shed that emotion in a heated moment.

I am inclined to view this as civilian frustration expressed in an unfortunate manner. I will vote elsewhere.

I apologize. People are doing their best. But this happens every time I tryto play, and it insanely frustrating to write honest thoughts and have my natural wording style get me lynched. I can't defend against it. But yeah its no one's fault.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

This is the one option for which I feel exclusively comfortable.

How's that again? He's said practically nothing. Is this a lapluie suspicion?

lapluie did nothing other than check in. There's nothing civilian in that. sprityo has done nothing other than [essentially] check in. There's nothing civilian in that. It stands out especially next to the other two replacements, who haven't seemed to integrate themselves into the dialogue at least somewhat (though speedchuck leaves something to be desired himself). If I were to grade the three replacements on a 1-10 scale for how good a job they've done to hop into the game and get to work, it'd look something like...

Sloonei - 6
speedchuck - 3
sprityo - 1

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

This is the one option for which I feel exclusively comfortable.

How's that again? He's said practically nothing. Is this a lapluie suspicion?

lapluie did nothing other than check in. There's nothing civilian in that. sprityo has done nothing other than [essentially] check in. There's nothing civilian in that. It stands out especially next to the other two replacements, who have seemed to integrate themselves into the dialogue at least somewhat (though speedchuck leaves something to be desired himself). If I were to grade the three replacements on a 1-10 scale for how good a job they've done to hop into the game and get to work, it'd look something like...

Sloonei - 6
speedchuck - 3
sprityo - 1

correction

[MacDougall]

I agree that sprityo is the best (read, safest) lynch but I don't buy that we should be putting our vote there yet. I am sure there is someone who needs more flame applied to their feet than that.

[timmer]

As for bullz... if the baddies aren't necessarily baddies... ugh, I may retract my vouch of bullz. Nova being bad was the centerpiece of my thoughts on that.

[Quin]

timmer is a civilian because he did not lie to me just now.

[MacDougall]

Like this beautiful wifom.

juliets and I are not teammates.

There. Go. Find bad guys.

juliets and I are not teammates.

There. Go. Find bad guys.

so you know you're on different teams

Yeah, I'm bad and juliets is good.

Great detective work.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I reviewed Colin's posts encouraging usage of resurrection abilities. I don't think there's some deep underlying strategy here as has been discussed a bit:

Okay, some setup stuff. There is a vig, it's some kind of skrewt animal.

Also someone needs to Pheonix Down TH if they can. Thanks.

I wouldn’t be opposed to this. If the people who can rez use it right away on confirmed townies we can ensure their ability isn’t wasted and keep frustrating the scum with numbers/confirmed civs

is at least a valid notion. If I was on the mafia team and civilians continually got resurrected, it would absolutely piss me off. It'd be a major balancing issue.

However, there's a separate problem which relates to that notion of balance. Colin seems to think these things can and will happen frequently, as if dying in this game only half-matters. That would not make sense in any setup I've ever seen, and I struggle to believe that anyone would expect to see it work.

[Quin]

3J did you seriously role block timmer on Night 1? Or was it one of your "get things moving" kind of stunts?

[DharmaHelper]

Here's how it went down from my perspective, one mental state at a time.

1. Bullzeye voted for nova.
2. Timmer and a few others found Bullzeye's vote extremely suspicious.
3. Nova was killed and flipped bad.
4. Some people (myself included) suspect Bullzeye even more, thinking that he placed a vote on a teammate.
5. Timmer comes out with a 180 on Bullzeye, calling him his top civ read after the events of the night but not due to a cop check.
6. I look at the list of abilities to see what might explain this that's not cop-ish per se. I notice the one that tracks which player a player targeted, and it occurs to me that perhaps Bullzeye vigged nova since he presumably suspected him, and perhaps timmer tracked Bullzeye since he suspected him, and saw that he targeted nova, and is now townclearing Bullzeye as the vig.
7. I accept this and decide to townread both bullzeye and timmer based on this interpretation.
8. The topic comes up again and Jay questions how timmer could know anything and says that he blocked timmer.
9. I say "wouldn't he not have gotten a result at all if he were blocked?"
10. That turns out to be moot as timmer admits that it was not based on anything he did at all, it was just based on something that happened (i.e. nova's death).
11. I figure that timmer had just made an educated guess that bullzeye vigged nova and decided to townclear him. Since it made so much sense to me when I was investigating back when I thought timmer actually knew something, I figured that I still believed it made sense even though it turned out timmer didn't actually know, and I continued to agree with timmer/believe that bullzeye killed nova.
12. For a while I still figured that this looked good for timmer. I no longer feel like I have much justification for that; he could easily have scum motivation for pulling his 180 on bullzeye in the way that he did.

@timmer

does number 5 come from any sort of info you got?

Gah. So I came out in favor of bullz because of a combination of my night action, which i knew had been unsuccessful but not why, and the people who died. I was able to make some educated guesses based on the deaths that night, when my lack of success was factored in, knowing what I knew.

I hadn't anticipated that I had been blocked, and mostly hedged jjj's post about it because I hadn't meant for people to start revealing their info publicly and I felt bad that he had said it.

But I stuck my thoughts on bullz because of a new educated guess in light of me being blocked, I kind of remade the puzzle and it still worked in his favor, in my mind.

But.... the thought that the dead baddies may not be bad is something I most definitely had not thought of, and it has me convinced that there is a third party killing role.

I'd rather not say more because I'd rather keep my shit locked up a bit. But I don't think those dead baddies are necessarily bad and I'm not sure they were killed by a vig.

I dunno what to think about shit like this. Like, you're half out the bottle already, why even bring it up at all if it's just gonna be winks and nods. Say it with your chest.

[timmer]

wait timmer what the fuck is your job

when someone has an infection and a surgeon cuts the infected tissue out of them, like in a knee joint or an abscess or a bursa, that tissue comes to me. I grind it into pulp with a mortar and pestle and then take that pulp and culture it to see what bacteria is in it. That then tells the surgeon what antibiotics the person should be on to heal the area and to keep them from going septic.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As for bullz... if the baddies aren't necessarily baddies... ugh, I may retract my vouch of bullz. Nova being bad was the centerpiece of my thoughts on that.

If there is even a single reason to believe in this stuff, then it needs to be stated clearly. It would define the entire civilian approach to the game. I have no clue whatsoever why we're talking about this. It's bonkers.

[Quin]

As for bullz... if the baddies aren't necessarily baddies... ugh, I may retract my vouch of bullz. Nova being bad was the centerpiece of my thoughts on that.

If there is even a single reason to believe in this stuff, then it needs to be stated clearly. It would define the entire civilian approach to the game. I have no clue whatsoever why we're talking about this. It's bonkers.

If there is a ressurection in play, janitors would be the way the balance it. That's about the best I have.

[Quin]

wait not janitors the other thing

false flippidy dippidy doo

[Long Con]

I'm struggling to pst what I wantto say properly, I'm a bit lit.

I'll write it better tomorrow but I'm hot liking long con s vote history and vote timing... I think it is vey possible he saved owner day 1. I think his inh vote needs more study too. He's been very manipulative with his voting strategy and his early stated aim to be hallow hunting makes for easy cover for those late votes

I'll try to lay it out better tomorrow

Civ or bad? Town or Mafia? I think it looks genuine, especially given that he didn't really have a follow-up on it the next day. I think it really looks like the genuine article: his drunk self thought he saw something, possibly fueled by a presupposition that Owner was bad. If it's a fake (baddie) opinion, then it's well-faked.

I've begun staring at the polls for awhile now, slightly drunk on port...

The deathly Hallows cannot be transferred, it says.

Do you think a baddie could have started with a hallow?

Civ or bad? If it's bad, then it's a cheeky slap to us in the form of an "I'm innocently ignorant, see?" play. That would be so clunky. I say Civ-looking.

the difference between this game and the last game as far as number of opinions from me goes is that in the previous game the few opinions I had were confident and also correct with little basis required up until maybe like day six.

I defended players I knew were civs and voted for my own teammates because I could, and because it was easy, and it made me seem trustworthy to basically everyone except long con. In this game I have few opinions because I've only read like 1/3 of the pages

Did Kylemii just scum-slip?

whaddya mean

He gives a comparison:
Last game (scum): confident opinions, defended players who were civ, voted for his teammates, acted trustworthy
This game (unknown): I have few opinions because I haven't been around.
Not: I have few opinions because I'm town.

So... Ugh... Luna, is that a serious case? Like, you legit think his word choice here is a scumslip? Or is this a desperate attempt at a case to take pressure off of you...

I happen to agree that Luna's scumslip is a real stretch, so I get no alarm bells from Timmer's response.

Lunalee, I am unclear why you are suspicious of karavalenge. If you've already explained in detail just direct me that way, or please do so now. It strikes me as a very easy selection (as does Bullzeye).

See my response to Timmer. I suspected Kara, but then found a post of theirs that made me want to back off. That's why I moved my vote to Bullzeye instead. As far as Bullzeye being an "easy" selection, that may be true. And if that's the case I don't want to join an opportunistic band wagon. I'll be around for the next hour or so and hope to have a confident vote by then.

But you've said previously that you think there is at least some thread/game evidence to support a bullzeye lunch, so if you believe in it, why be hesitant about your vote just because it may also appear opportunistic? I mean, if you think he's bad... why would you move your votr, potentially?

See, I'm hesitant because if Bullz is civ, and he just came in a voted Nova at EOD because he was absent, and there was no other reasons to it, then after Nova flipped scum, there's this nice opportunity to build a case against Bullz, and mafia might jump all over that.

Right, so I guess what I'm getting at is... which do you think it is? Is bullz a civ who came in late and lazy-voted and the baddies will attack it? Or do you think he was bad? You seem to want to vote him, but also not? I'm confused.

This post has some positive/negative contrasts, I suppose, if we are thinking Adolf. BUT context. Trying to determine Luna's Bullzeye opinion, which appears to be wishy-washy enough to warrant the either-or dichotomous questioning.

I don't get the sense that Timmer is trying to push suspicion on Luna, or trying to, like, virtue signal support her either, which are things that baddie Timmer might do, depending on what Luna's alignment is. It just looks legit to me.

.....................

Ok, I'm done with this exercise, [mention]poutanko[/mention] . That's an example of how I can read Timmer';s ISO and feel like he's Civ.

Linki: holy damn like 20 posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J did you seriously role block timmer on Night 1? Or was it one of your "get things moving" kind of stunts?

I did.

[timmer]

Here's how it went down from my perspective, one mental state at a time.

1. Bullzeye voted for nova.
2. Timmer and a few others found Bullzeye's vote extremely suspicious.
3. Nova was killed and flipped bad.
4. Some people (myself included) suspect Bullzeye even more, thinking that he placed a vote on a teammate.
5. Timmer comes out with a 180 on Bullzeye, calling him his top civ read after the events of the night but not due to a cop check.
6. I look at the list of abilities to see what might explain this that's not cop-ish per se. I notice the one that tracks which player a player targeted, and it occurs to me that perhaps Bullzeye vigged nova since he presumably suspected him, and perhaps timmer tracked Bullzeye since he suspected him, and saw that he targeted nova, and is now townclearing Bullzeye as the vig.
7. I accept this and decide to townread both bullzeye and timmer based on this interpretation.
8. The topic comes up again and Jay questions how timmer could know anything and says that he blocked timmer.
9. I say "wouldn't he not have gotten a result at all if he were blocked?"
10. That turns out to be moot as timmer admits that it was not based on anything he did at all, it was just based on something that happened (i.e. nova's death).
11. I figure that timmer had just made an educated guess that bullzeye vigged nova and decided to townclear him. Since it made so much sense to me when I was investigating back when I thought timmer actually knew something, I figured that I still believed it made sense even though it turned out timmer didn't actually know, and I continued to agree with timmer/believe that bullzeye killed nova.
12. For a while I still figured that this looked good for timmer. I no longer feel like I have much justification for that; he could easily have scum motivation for pulling his 180 on bullzeye in the way that he did.

@timmer

does number 5 come from any sort of info you got?

Gah. So I came out in favor of bullz because of a combination of my night action, which i knew had been unsuccessful but not why, and the people who died. I was able to make some educated guesses based on the deaths that night, when my lack of success was factored in, knowing what I knew.

I hadn't anticipated that I had been blocked, and mostly hedged jjj's post about it because I hadn't meant for people to start revealing their info publicly and I felt bad that he had said it.

But I stuck my thoughts on bullz because of a new educated guess in light of me being blocked, I kind of remade the puzzle and it still worked in his favor, in my mind.

But.... the thought that the dead baddies may not be bad is something I most definitely had not thought of, and it has me convinced that there is a third party killing role.

I'd rather not say more because I'd rather keep my shit locked up a bit. But I don't think those dead baddies are necessarily bad and I'm not sure they were killed by a vig.

I dunno what to think about shit like this. Like, you're half out the bottle already, why even bring it up at all if it's just gonna be winks and nods. Say it with your chest.

I know. It's annoying. I'll think on whether I should say more. I just have certain fears.

[DharmaHelper]

Tell it to the one legged man so he can bump it off on down the road.

[MacDougall]

wait timmer what the fuck is your job

when someone has an infection and a surgeon cuts the infected tissue out of them, like in a knee joint or an abscess or a bursa, that tissue comes to me. I grind it into pulp with a mortar and pestle and then take that pulp and culture it to see what bacteria is in it. That then tells the surgeon what antibiotics the person should be on to heal the area and to keep them from going septic.

[Quin]

3J did you seriously role block timmer on Night 1? Or was it one of your "get things moving" kind of stunts?

I did.

cool. no issues here. the thing that i thought happened with timmer was probably wrong then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

wait not janitors the other thing

false flippidy dippidy doo

Seemers are typically opposite, i.e. mafia members who flip as civilians. Death millers, or civilians who flip as mafia, are very rare (and on many sites considered outright bastard roles). The exception around here is the forger, which can specifically select a civilian to appear as a mafioso when killed. That'd have to mean though that a forger and a vigilante targeted the same person in only two night phases, barring an even more convoluted theory in which the mafia team can slaughter four or five players in two nights, one or two of whom was forged.

It strikes me as absurd.

A serial killer is more believable just because it's an ordinary role, but I was under the impression the setup was purely civilian versus mafia (Hogwarts students versus New Death Eathers). That's what the setup says.

[Quin]

wait timmer what the fuck is your job

when someone has an infection and a surgeon cuts the infected tissue out of them, like in a knee joint or an abscess or a bursa, that tissue comes to me. I grind it into pulp with a mortar and pestle and then take that pulp and culture it to see what bacteria is in it. That then tells the surgeon what antibiotics the person should be on to heal the area and to keep them from going septic.

are you also the guy who collects the amputated limbs after surgery because if so my dad wants his leg back