MU Season 6 Scrimmage [GAME OVER]

[Dragomir]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

Why not?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't need "possibly". What are you referring to?



I think DDL got snagged by a booby trap. No lynches are horrendous, and I thought it looked evident that speedchuck wasn't serious in his recommendation.

Eh the thing is that I kind of see a reasoning for it. Na.ely this game has a bunch of cops and they all act in Night 1/2. So No Lynch would reduce the chance we lynch our own cops and hopefully give us a headstart in ability usage. It reminded me of the Jester Game we do in NF.

Of course the price we pay for that is a civ night kill, so I'm not entirely sure the move is profitable. Would like to see a discussion on it, though.

There is only ever one scenario to vote no lynch and Day 1 ain't it.

I just described a different game as an example but logical reasoning doesn't work with you, so I won't insist.

that's not very nice

You play a few games with him and you'll understand why I'm doing it.

H's a very rational person, but getting him to admit reason from other people is... complicated.

Everybody's logic is valid and nobody's reasoning is ever bad. Now let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Sorry for the outburst Epi I shouldn't bash you like that.

[Gemma]

are games here usually this slow

considering the length of the dayphase, i have concerns

After playing a different cross-community game, this is a breath of fresh air. Gemma isn't afraid to take stances or make posts, not in any way.

Expound

I recently played a crossover game with another forum, which I won't name directly because it feels like badmouthing. They weren't able to keep up with a game that traveled at slower than normal syndicate speed, and some players were upset about how much posting was done and how it was too stressful.

I'm... a little cooler on Gemma now because of the "What" and "Why" and "How" posts that keep coming, drilling for repetitive info instead of supplying some. But I like their moxy (and the comics).

what

[MacDougall]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

This is a bad take

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

The case aint just "nova is asking questions"

If nova was asking questions and also tunneling the fuck out of someone while being a general pain in the ass it would be fine.

He's just prodding random peoplr all game. I'm yet to see if he intends to do anything with those answers. Like, you know, scumhunting.

[Dragomir]

are games here usually this slow

considering the length of the dayphase, i have concerns

After playing a different cross-community game, this is a breath of fresh air. Gemma isn't afraid to take stances or make posts, not in any way.

Expound

I recently played a crossover game with another forum, which I won't name directly because it feels like badmouthing. They weren't able to keep up with a game that traveled at slower than normal syndicate speed, and some players were upset about how much posting was done and how it was too stressful.

I'm... a little cooler on Gemma now because of the "What" and "Why" and "How" posts that keep coming, drilling for repetitive info instead of supplying some. But I like their moxy (and the comics).

what

Got an apathetic town read on Genma.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

Why not?

Too many people I suspect more and I don’t dislike anything but his Speed vote.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

This is a bad take

If Jay or Drag is bad, they aren’t bad with DDL.

Plus I suspect Ultra and Genma.

Plus there’s a bunch of players like you and Epi they haven’t done anything to convince me and MP ain’t even here yet.

There may not be enough room for scum DDL and his one bad thing he took back soon after. Yet he hasn’t just gone on the defensive or pushed his attackers. He’s rolled with it.

[MacDougall]

Please let's lynch DDL. There's not a speck of townie on him.

-Opportunistic jump on speedchuchk's bait and according from others, chuck is renowned as someone who hates no lynching so I'm not understanding how he doesn't see it as a joke.

-His post explaining why there could be a reason for wanting to no lynch is illogical in itself and a big contradiction to his previous actions. Not to note, he completely ignored it and is trying something now against Novas.

-His retreat after being confronted for his vote on Chuck was just bad. It just reeked of trying to appear better after realizing how bad they looked for what they did. This kinda self-awareness is very much from a scum POV and him admitting to it ain't really that much either as something so obvious, you're better off admitting then trying to find excuses.

-Now he's making a rather weak case against Novas, coming to this conclusion from Mac calling him out. Seems like the dude was trying to make a meta read that didn't work. Mans trying to get some town cred after doing much of nothing else huh? It ain't working fam.

[MacDougall]

Ok so I guess I'm allowed to point out how nova is different than in the other game now?

Cuz he totally is.

Please explain how

Civ nova is a pain in the ass.

My ass is doing fine.

I find this take strange and unpalatable.

[Dragomir]

Please let's lynch DDL. There's not a speck of townie on him.

-Opportunistic jump on speedchuchk's bait and according from others, chuck is renowned as someone who hates no lynching so I'm not understanding how he doesn't see it as a joke.

-His post explaining why there could be a reason for wanting to no lynch is illogical in itself and a big contradiction to his previous actions. Not to note, he completely ignored it and is trying something now against Novas.

-His retreat after being confronted for his vote on Chuck was just bad. It just reeked of trying to appear better after realizing how bad they looked for what they did. This kinda self-awareness is very much from a scum POV and him admitting to it ain't really that much either as something so obvious, you're better off admitting then trying to find excuses.

-Now he's making a rather weak case against Novas, coming to this conclusion from Mac calling him out. Seems like the dude was trying to make a meta read that didn't work. Mans trying to get some town cred after doing much of nothing else huh? It ain't working fam.

Can't see the image.

[MacDougall]

Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

The case aint just "nova is asking questions"

If nova was asking questions and also tunneling the fuck out of someone while being a general pain in the ass it would be fine.

He's just prodding random peoplr all game. I'm yet to see if he intends to do anything with those answers. Like, you know, scumhunting.

We must be in two different Mafia games. Nova has done heaps of gamesolving. He is playing identical to every Nova game I've seen lately. I have no concerns with him.

[MacDougall]

Please let's lynch DDL. There's not a speck of townie on him.

-Opportunistic jump on speedchuchk's bait and according from others, chuck is renowned as someone who hates no lynching so I'm not understanding how he doesn't see it as a joke.

-His post explaining why there could be a reason for wanting to no lynch is illogical in itself and a big contradiction to his previous actions. Not to note, he completely ignored it and is trying something now against Novas.

-His retreat after being confronted for his vote on Chuck was just bad. It just reeked of trying to appear better after realizing how bad they looked for what they did. This kinda self-awareness is very much from a scum POV and him admitting to it ain't really that much either as something so obvious, you're better off admitting then trying to find excuses.

-Now he's making a rather weak case against Novas, coming to this conclusion from Mac calling him out. Seems like the dude was trying to make a meta read that didn't work. Mans trying to get some town cred after doing much of nothing else huh? It ain't working fam.

Can't see the image.

roberdeniroyouregood.gif

[Jackofhearts2005]

I like town Nova. Weird thing to say.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jack is a civ.

My paranoia can't keep that feeling from coming out.

[MacDougall]

DDL read Nova's ISO again. You will see muchos scum hunting imo.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I like town Nova. Weird thing to say.

Town nova is awesome.

This game's ain't it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DDL read Nova's ISO again. You will see muchos scum hunting imo.

The burden of proof belongs to whoever says something exists.

[MacDougall]

I have to question whether a scum DDL goes to the effort to fake a Nova case right now when there appear to be alternatives to glob onto. Does DDL put himself into the mix as scum on day 1 like this?

[Jackofhearts2005]

You guys are gonna get me shot and make it hard for me cause I keep randing scum.

[Dragomir]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

This is a bad take

If Jay or Drag is bad, they aren’t bad with DDL.

Plus I suspect Ultra and Genma.

Plus there’s a bunch of players like you and Epi they haven’t done anything to convince me and MP ain’t even here yet.

There may not be enough room for scum DDL and his one bad thing he took back soon after. Yet he hasn’t just gone on the defensive or pushed his attackers. He’s rolled with it.

Just remove one of your suspects and BOOM! There's room for scum DDL

Are you scum reading Jay and I or?

Him rolling with it doesn't really help him.

[MacDougall]

DDL read Nova's ISO again. You will see muchos scum hunting imo.

The burden of proof belongs to whoever says something exists.

I don't care enough about defending him to go and pull posts for you. If you don't give enough of a fuck about being right then that says more about you than me.

[MacDougall]

DDL - Nova isn't scum hunting
Mac - Yes he is go see
DDL - Lalala I can't read posts

[Gemma]

I dig your Ultra stuff, Speed. I can see a baddie Ultra using me as a compass to navigate through early game. His prod for reads kind of felt iffy to me, like I was getting a vibe that he actually cared what those were lol.

um

why is it iffy for someone to care what your reads are and prod you accordingly

i am confused

Everything you’ve asked is surface level and doesnt go deeper than that. The whole conversation with epi felt like a weird attempt at questioning, and then the lol at the end doesnt make sense to me.

Why do you think JJJ should be town read?

um

epig shaded jjj with what i thought was a really bad question, so i asked him what his jjj read was in order to tell if he was town genuinely suspecting jjj or scum just wanting to throw cheap shade. he refused to tell me what his jjj read actually was. how exactly does my questioning feel weird when it was epig who was being rude to me and trying to gaslight me?

i wasn't implying that jjj should be townread, or anything else about him. if there is a reason for jjj to be town it's probably his wild bursts of posting, but that's not very good reasoning

i loled because what else am i supposed to do when someone refuses to talk to me and eventually answered my question about someone he is apparently scumreading by saying that he doesn't have to talk about his townreads. nothing i've asked is surface level, you just aren't looking any deeper, and apparently aren't even reading the posts if that is your takeaway from our exchange? the dude is clearly more interested in his own sense of privilege than actually talking to another person as an equal (sorry if that's a bit harsh)

[MacDougall]

Gemma why do people keep calling you Genma?

[MacDougall]

I dig your Ultra stuff, Speed. I can see a baddie Ultra using me as a compass to navigate through early game. His prod for reads kind of felt iffy to me, like I was getting a vibe that he actually cared what those were lol.

um

why is it iffy for someone to care what your reads are and prod you accordingly

i am confused

Everything you’ve asked is surface level and doesnt go deeper than that. The whole conversation with epi felt like a weird attempt at questioning, and then the lol at the end doesnt make sense to me.

Why do you think JJJ should be town read?

the dude is clearly more interested in his own sense of privilege than actually talking to another person as an equal (sorry if that's a bit harsh)

This is a fair description of how Epignosis plays Mafia.

Different guy outside the game but no, you pretty much summed it up.

[Luxurious]

I kind of want to vote JJJ. I enjoy playing with him, and it has been awhile since we last played. But I also feel like I'm not quite yet seeing the Jay that I've seen before in 2 other games I played with him. Is that enough to go by? I don't know. Have I only seen his town game? I think so. Then again he might play different with a power role in hand, so maybe that's why he appears different. Or he could be generally busy, but I'm not suppose to make excuses for him. I'm just suppose to read what the thread gives me. Or maybe some games does Jay not get serious super early on? In my mind, it would be hard to maintain a talkative or inquisitive facade like every single game.

You're very wishy washy with this read on JJJ. Your approach to your scum read on him comes off as fake. You say stuff that you think are scummy about him, then immediately begin questioning and making up excuses. You're not assertive or sure about yourself at all and that is really troubling.

One could say your vote on him is assertive but meh your reasoning provided is so wishy washy that it makes the vote and the entire read itself just look like you're trying to contribute.

Eh the thing is that I kind of see a reasoning for it. Na.ely this game has a bunch of cops and they all act in Night 1/2. So No Lynch would reduce the chance we lynch our own cops and hopefully give us a headstart in ability usage. It reminded me of the Jester Game we do in NF.

Of course the price we pay for that is a civ night kill, so I'm not entirely sure the move is profitable. Would like to see a discussion on it, though.

Very much not liking this post. You first in the game obviously think that no lynches were bad since you voted him up and questioned him about it. But now you trying to find a plausible excuse to explain the mindset of no lynch. Doesn't that seem much like a contradiction? So if you think there could be a reasoning for wanting to no lynch, why did you vote chuck up in the first place?

Still not done reading the thread, just wanted to give my thoughts on these quotes out. Also, I had voted for DDL in the poll.

Why did you section out Owner’s other reads.

[Epignosis]

Why do you think he was gaslighting you

I had beans for supper. If I gaslight anybody, it's going to be Elohcin at two in the morning.

[Gemma]

I don't need to explain why I don't hand out civilian labels like Halloween candy Day 1.

lol

I hate this

The lol or Epi?

The lol

You expect a less indifferent response?

No I just thought the whole line of questioning was bad and I dont get why Gemma doesnt like his responses

From the look of it Gemma expects everyone to have JJJ as a townread right off the bat which, like, why should I? Was does Gemma?

Why does Gemma say this and then go back and say “i have no town or scum reads?” After acting like JJJ is town and then not even have a semblance of a read on Epi?

None of it makes sense to me

why do you think i was acting like jjj is town?

[Epignosis]

I kind of want to vote JJJ. I enjoy playing with him, and it has been awhile since we last played. But I also feel like I'm not quite yet seeing the Jay that I've seen before in 2 other games I played with him. Is that enough to go by? I don't know. Have I only seen his town game? I think so. Then again he might play different with a power role in hand, so maybe that's why he appears different. Or he could be generally busy, but I'm not suppose to make excuses for him. I'm just suppose to read what the thread gives me. Or maybe some games does Jay not get serious super early on? In my mind, it would be hard to maintain a talkative or inquisitive facade like every single game.

M Plus 7, also provided slank or "slang", so I know he's busy, but I still require more from him to really have a solid read on him. I have seen other players (not him) who are generally talkative people who provide slank but still end up posting through the roof as mostly town people; there were some scum outliers though.

Gemma's birds seem fine and fluffy. I like that she is in the thread and posting at least. Could use more content to go by, because the thread seems lacking of it.

Nova, I like so far. Not sure or can't remember if I read him correctly the last time we played together or maybe I was scum that game. Who knows? I guess I want longer content from him. It seems like a lot of his posts are a bit on the shorter side. That as general note seems a little suspicious or holding your thoughts too close to yourself.

I'll be gone for a lot of today unfortunately. I hope to be back on in 12 hours.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine Right now, you are the most different to me. I suggest doing something to change my mind or find someone scummier. I hope to see some effort when i get back. (aka I wanted to play with you more, but I can't be your buddy if you are scum)

Not a fan of this post. I feel like attacking Jay/MP for lower than usual post volume is pretty shallow in terms of how much you can analyse someone. And from what I've seen recently you don't do swallow, you go pretty far in analysing people.

Heck, coming from you, I would have expected an essay on what the expressions on Gemma's bird's faces mean about her subconscious re: her alignment. Not that I'm demanding that, but point is, I'd expect you to use your little free time to do way more interesting things than what you're doing now.

Okay DDL is town everyone take your votes off him

Agreed.

[MacDougall]

I have never seen Epi treat anyone the way he is treating Luxurious. It's almost like he ... likes you?

[Luxurious]

Owner/ Gemma

Thoughts

It usually isn't my style to build interactive reads without a mafia flip in the thread. Owner's read on Gemma seemed pointless though, as did her read on MP. They're neutral commentary about the future of the game rather than a present development of a stance. Those are bad things re: Owner in isolation regardless of the other two.

Okay so what’s the reason to include the other two? Lip service? Shade?

[Luxurious]

The votes are in!!!!

Spoiler: show

You’re town

What sold you?

I was bribed

[Gemma]

To make my list easier for those to see and as a tl;dr for everyone who doesnt wanna go through all my posts

[town]
JJJ
Speed
Jack
DDL

[everyone else]


[scum]
Ultra
Gemma

My reads, in order

you forgot owner?

[Luxurious]

Talk to me about Jack. What do you see in his attitude?

read this post and let me know if there is any actual reasoning for a scumread in it

Hmm... we dont have any information to work on yet, so we should probably no lynch d1.

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

Oof. Remember all the times DDL didn't do shit like this?

And remember the time he did shit like this to me when he was scum in Addams Family?

Bad reason to vote Speedchuck. Welcome to my scumreads.

What about this doesnt look like a real scum read to you gemma

[Gemma]

I’ll put Lux on the town list and Genma on the naughty list.

I refuse to give Epi credit for being his grumpy self.

what did you like about lux?

you aren't allowed to say meta because you haven't played with her before!

[Dragomir]

I kind of want to vote JJJ. I enjoy playing with him, and it has been awhile since we last played. But I also feel like I'm not quite yet seeing the Jay that I've seen before in 2 other games I played with him. Is that enough to go by? I don't know. Have I only seen his town game? I think so. Then again he might play different with a power role in hand, so maybe that's why he appears different. Or he could be generally busy, but I'm not suppose to make excuses for him. I'm just suppose to read what the thread gives me. Or maybe some games does Jay not get serious super early on? In my mind, it would be hard to maintain a talkative or inquisitive facade like every single game.

You're very wishy washy with this read on JJJ. Your approach to your scum read on him comes off as fake. You say stuff that you think are scummy about him, then immediately begin questioning and making up excuses. You're not assertive or sure about yourself at all and that is really troubling.

One could say your vote on him is assertive but meh your reasoning provided is so wishy washy that it makes the vote and the entire read itself just look like you're trying to contribute.

Eh the thing is that I kind of see a reasoning for it. Na.ely this game has a bunch of cops and they all act in Night 1/2. So No Lynch would reduce the chance we lynch our own cops and hopefully give us a headstart in ability usage. It reminded me of the Jester Game we do in NF.

Of course the price we pay for that is a civ night kill, so I'm not entirely sure the move is profitable. Would like to see a discussion on it, though.

Very much not liking this post. You first in the game obviously think that no lynches were bad since you voted him up and questioned him about it. But now you trying to find a plausible excuse to explain the mindset of no lynch. Doesn't that seem much like a contradiction? So if you think there could be a reasoning for wanting to no lynch, why did you vote chuck up in the first place?

Still not done reading the thread, just wanted to give my thoughts on these quotes out. Also, I had voted for DDL in the poll.

Why did you section out Owner’s other reads.

They didn't ping but this one did.

[Luxurious]

To make my list easier for those to see and as a tl;dr for everyone who doesnt wanna go through all my posts

[town]
JJJ
Speed
Jack
DDL
Epi

[everyone else]


[scum]
Owner
Gemma

My reads, in order

you forgot owner?

Replace Owner with Ultra. I was reading an ultra post when i wrote this.

I fixed it in the quote. Thank you!

[Gemma]

Cause when I offered to explain the read further, Genma was not interested.

oh please

[Luxurious]

Ok so I guess I'm allowed to point out how nova is different than in the other game now?

Cuz he totally is.

Everyone: you’re scummy!!!
DDL: fine I’ll hoard all my thoughts right here and then one day I’ll die

[Luxurious]

Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

The case aint just "nova is asking questions"

If nova was asking questions and also tunneling the fuck out of someone while being a general pain in the ass it would be fine.

He's just prodding random peoplr all game. I'm yet to see if he intends to do anything with those answers. Like, you know, scumhunting.

How do you feel about gemma then?

[Luxurious]

I’m no longer interested in voting DDL.

This is a bad take

If Jay or Drag is bad, they aren’t bad with DDL.

Plus I suspect Ultra and Genma.

Plus there’s a bunch of players like you and Epi they haven’t done anything to convince me and MP ain’t even here yet.

There may not be enough room for scum DDL and his one bad thing he took back soon after. Yet he hasn’t just gone on the defensive or pushed his attackers. He’s rolled with it.

Just remove one of your suspects and BOOM! There's room for scum DDL

Are you scum reading Jay and I or?

Him rolling with it doesn't really help him.

Hey why did you change the and to an I

[Luxurious]

That’s actually really nitpicky and I didnt even write the correct words.

So like, answer if you want but that’s a freebie

It’s supposed to read “from or to and” but ya know, I’m Jared 19

[Luxurious]

I dig your Ultra stuff, Speed. I can see a baddie Ultra using me as a compass to navigate through early game. His prod for reads kind of felt iffy to me, like I was getting a vibe that he actually cared what those were lol.

um

why is it iffy for someone to care what your reads are and prod you accordingly

i am confused

Everything you’ve asked is surface level and doesnt go deeper than that. The whole conversation with epi felt like a weird attempt at questioning, and then the lol at the end doesnt make sense to me.

Why do you think JJJ should be town read?

um

epig shaded jjj with what i thought was a really bad question, so i asked him what his jjj read was in order to tell if he was town genuinely suspecting jjj or scum just wanting to throw cheap shade. he refused to tell me what his jjj read actually was. how exactly does my questioning feel weird when it was epig who was being rude to me and trying to gaslight me?

i wasn't implying that jjj should be townread, or anything else about him. if there is a reason for jjj to be town it's probably his wild bursts of posting, but that's not very good reasoning

i loled because what else am i supposed to do when someone refuses to talk to me and eventually answered my question about someone he is apparently scumreading by saying that he doesn't have to talk about his townreads. nothing i've asked is surface level, you just aren't looking any deeper, and apparently aren't even reading the posts if that is your takeaway from our exchange? the dude is clearly more interested in his own sense of privilege than actually talking to another person as an equal (sorry if that's a bit harsh)

No you’re fine.

I dont remember this going down like that at all so I’m gonna repull the quotes and pick your brain about it some more

[Gemma]

Gemma, you've given a decent amount of your attention to nova:

Question | Prod | Question about prods

For my next performance, I'll suggest lynching a no-show on D1, which is a little more palatable. /s

too late

novas already did that

This carries implied shade given the context of speedchuck's sarcasm.

you're a blob of meta

He's a blob of meta.

I don't object to a lot of questions. Questions are super as long as there is a destination. I don't see a destination. What is your stance on nova?

v person is nova

i thought i was responding to jack, so the "you" is jack. jack is blob of meta because he won't explain his reads other than saying something something meta

i thought it was scummy that nova voted for someone who hadn't really been in thread at all. it's an easy vote and he hadn't said anything about mac, so there was no reasoning behind the vote that i could tell. i could see a world where nova as scum feels like he ought to vote mac there in order to try to make his earlier exchange with him seem more legitimate.

his reads so far are kind of rigid and one-dimensional-ish which is a little concerning but i'm still getting a sense of his process and given the level he seems to be playing at i think things like his mood and approach to me might be more alignment indicative, so he mostly just ends up at null. if you think there is anything he's done that is very alignment indicative for him i would love to hear it

[Luxurious]

Why do you think he was gaslighting you

I had beans for supper. If I gaslight anybody, it's going to be Elohcin at two in the morning.

Gross! I dont know who Elohcin is but sucks to be them

[Gemma]

i don't really have any reads of the townread/scumread type rn sorry

50 posts to arrive here

[VOTE: Gemma] aubergine

would you prefer it if i listed some random hard reads and made up reasons for them

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok so I guess I'm allowed to point out how nova is different than in the other game now?

Cuz he totally is.

Everyone: you’re scummy!!!
DDL: fine I’ll hoard all my thoughts right here and then one day I’ll die

I had to wait for nova to die in the other game to point that out.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Let me say it in other words.

Nova asking questions is not a reason to scum read him. It is also an argument that I was tempted to make when I was scum because I had nothing better to say.

Weak case making dressed in the guise of good case making.

DDL is bad. Back to DDL.

The case aint just "nova is asking questions"

If nova was asking questions and also tunneling the fuck out of someone while being a general pain in the ass it would be fine.

He's just prodding random peoplr all game. I'm yet to see if he intends to do anything with those answers. Like, you know, scumhunting.

How do you feel about gemma then?

Not sure.

[Luxurious]

lol

I hate this

The lol or Epi?

The lol

You expect a less indifferent response?

No I just thought the whole line of questioning was bad and I dont get why Gemma doesnt like his responses

From the look of it Gemma expects everyone to have JJJ as a townread right off the bat which, like, why should I? Was does Gemma?

Why does Gemma say this and then go back and say “i have no town or scum reads?” After acting like JJJ is town and then not even have a semblance of a read on Epi?

None of it makes sense to me

why do you think i was acting like jjj is town?

Always bad until I'm convinced otherwise.

why

Am I supposed to assume he's a civilian every time out?

yes

you didn't answer my question