Fallout: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game (END)

[Glorfindel]

Or we could, you know, do nothing.

I want to take a look at everybody today. No stone left unturned and all that. I overextended myself on my run today and have been lying in bed on a endorphine cloud ever since, but once I have energy and motivation again i plan on asking myself what my best argument for and against every one of you is. I think that would be a good place to start and I encourage others to give it a try.

Well, for a start, I’d like to explore this post. I’m halfway through ‘Couch to 5K’ and would love to hear your experiences with running, Sloonei. How far do you normally run? How far is ‘over-extending’ yourself? Any tips for a beginner?

I don't know how to give tips! I've just kind of always done it. I played sports my entire childhood, then when high school ended I didn't have a natural fitness outlet and felt gross, so I decided to start running and now it's just a thing that I do for pleasure now, several years later. It relaxes me like nothing else, and I do it more for that than the fitness aspects of it, though I appreciate that as well.
Today I ran 7 miles, which isn't overdoing it by itself, but the temperature was in the upper-20s in Celsius with major humidity, and I also swallowed some bugs. I have no advice on how to avoid doing that, unfortunately.

I guess my main tip would be that your nutrition around the run is more important than the run itself. Drink lots of water and eat things that you won't regret later on, and make sure you do the proper amount of stretching before and after.

If you're just just starting out, keep in mind that every step counts as something. Don't try to achieve everything all at once but just go for minimal improvements every day.

Clearly, you are sadly mistaken, my friend. That is sum quality advice that I appreciate greatly. I am (in concert with the app) increasing my capacity slowly but steadily. I’ll confess, when I started out with this thing, I didn’t think I’d make it past the first week and here I am starting Week 4 tomorrow arvo. When I start, I feel great - like I king of the world! By the time I finish, I feel I should be in intensive care in a medical facility somewhere - and I feel the same no matter how far I run. I’d been wondering if I should drink more water or eat differently on the days I run and you helped clear that up for me, so I’m most grateful for the time you took to give me that advice, my friend

Well them I'm glad I could help! Yeah, water is a very important thing. Fruit and granola also make really good pre-run snacks.
What distance/pace/however this app measures things are you at right now?

It’s like 5 minute walk to warm up, run 2 minutes, walk 2 minutes, run 3 minutes, walk 2 minutes, repeat a few times then back to the 2 minute run and then cool down. It generally takes about a half an hour. I’m kinda excited to see if I can make it to the end and run half an hour straight. I should point out that this was the idea of my Physio who at the time was trying to help me with some stress-management strategies and as you say, it seems to have done the trick.

[Glorfindel]

Spoiler: show

Witch Hunt: Why is everyone scum?

Creature - Has dropped off as the game has gone on, playstyle resembles another recent scum game. sabie kept him at arm's length when she was alive and he voted for Not Sabie Day 1.
Glorfindel - He went to great lengths to justify a scum read on Sabie Day 1. Could be an elaborate bussing effort.
Jackofhearts - Screwed around early, sabie expressed vague "iffy" scum read of him all of Day 1 and then backed off Day 2. Never voted for sabie.
Macdougall - Has dropped off since pouncing on sabie Day 1. Sabie seemed shook when he caught her Day 1. Possible recuit.
birdwithteeth - Has not done anything extraordinary one way or another since subbing in.
TonyStarkPrime - Deep wolf. I found some holes in his sabie interactions despite what would have had to be an aggressive bussing strategy.

Which of these arguments was the hardest to come up with/least convincing?
Glorfindel by a mile. Jack and birdwithteeth arguments also felt weak.

Mac needs to be the recruit if he's bad. Creature can be either, though I haven't done a deep look at his posts in a while so there might be something which changes my mind on that. I surprisingly still feel the strongest about the TonyStark read, but that could just be recency bias.

Trustfall: Why is everyone town?

Creature - Doesn't give a shit about optics. Criticism of the sabie wagon on Day 1 would be a very bold move from a Day 1 bad guy in a relatively new environment. Voted to lynch sabie.
Glorfindel - Was on board the sabie lynch from the beginning, has been an active and engaged presence throughout, Cannot Tell a Lie.
Jackofhearts - Doesn't give a shit about optics, was sabie's #1 target on Day 1.
Macdougall - Caught sabie Day 1.
birdwithteeth - Oreki wasn't even here for the first phase. birdwithteeth's presence since subbing back in resembles the player called birdwithteeth that we lynched on Day 1.
TonyStarkPrime - Look at him go. Has been the most consistent analytical voice on this list. Voted for sabie Days 1 & 2.

Glorf's still the best looking guy here (hey we're an all male game now. The Fucking Patriarchy wins again.). I feel better about my argument for birdwithteeth than the argument against him, but neither is especially strong. None of these were really difficult to come up with, honestly.

The three names that I'm getting stuck on are Mac, TSP, and Creature. A mafia team of Master Tony, Lou Tenant Sabie, and Recruit Mac might make some sense.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]: I’m kinda with you on your suspicion of TSP. He admitted earlier this Day phase that he DID only place his vote on Sabie in the dying minutes of Day one when things were all tied up and he could do so with maximum safety. I think being Day 1, it’s more unlikely then, as ever that there would’ve been any external influences at play so in short, if he wanted to bus Sabie for Cred but not lose her, he’d have had no better opportunity. Might be a bit of a long bow but that post where Mac picked up on Sabie’s avoiding posting a read on TSP on the grounds of not being familiar with his game but then posting opinion pieces on other players with whom she also had limited exposure and TSP’s response to Mac on that do look a little strange to me.

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

Witch Hunt: Why is everyone scum?

Creature - Has dropped off as the game has gone on, playstyle resembles another recent scum game. sabie kept him at arm's length when she was alive and he voted for Not Sabie Day 1.
Glorfindel - He went to great lengths to justify a scum read on Sabie Day 1. Could be an elaborate bussing effort.
Jackofhearts - Screwed around early, sabie expressed vague "iffy" scum read of him all of Day 1 and then backed off Day 2. Never voted for sabie.
Macdougall - Has dropped off since pouncing on sabie Day 1. Sabie seemed shook when he caught her Day 1. Possible recuit.
birdwithteeth - Has not done anything extraordinary one way or another since subbing in.
TonyStarkPrime - Deep wolf. I found some holes in his sabie interactions despite what would have had to be an aggressive bussing strategy.

Which of these arguments was the hardest to come up with/least convincing?
Glorfindel by a mile. Jack and birdwithteeth arguments also felt weak.

Mac needs to be the recruit if he's bad. Creature can be either, though I haven't done a deep look at his posts in a while so there might be something which changes my mind on that. I surprisingly still feel the strongest about the TonyStark read, but that could just be recency bias.

Trustfall: Why is everyone town?

Creature - Doesn't give a shit about optics. Criticism of the sabie wagon on Day 1 would be a very bold move from a Day 1 bad guy in a relatively new environment. Voted to lynch sabie.
Glorfindel - Was on board the sabie lynch from the beginning, has been an active and engaged presence throughout, Cannot Tell a Lie.
Jackofhearts - Doesn't give a shit about optics, was sabie's #1 target on Day 1.
Macdougall - Caught sabie Day 1.
birdwithteeth - Oreki wasn't even here for the first phase. birdwithteeth's presence since subbing back in resembles the player called birdwithteeth that we lynched on Day 1.
TonyStarkPrime - Look at him go. Has been the most consistent analytical voice on this list. Voted for sabie Days 1 & 2.

Glorf's still the best looking guy here (hey we're an all male game now. The Fucking Patriarchy wins again.). I feel better about my argument for birdwithteeth than the argument against him, but neither is especially strong. None of these were really difficult to come up with, honestly.

The three names that I'm getting stuck on are Mac, TSP, and Creature. A mafia team of Master Tony, Lou Tenant Sabie, and Recruit Mac might make some sense.

Sloonei: I’m kinda with you on your suspicion of TSP. He admitted earlier this Day phase that he DID only place his vote on Sabie in the dying minutes of Day one when things were all tied up and he could do so with maximum safety. I think being Day 1, it’s more unlikely then, as ever that there would’ve been any external influences at play so in short, if he wanted to bus Sabie for Cred but not lose her, he’d have had no better opportunity. Might be a bit of a long bow but that post where Mac picked up on Sabie’s avoiding posting a read on TSP on the grounds of not being familiar with his game but then posting opinion pieces on other players with whom she also had limited exposure and TSP’s response to Mac on that do look a little strange to me.

This point should not be ignored. That sort of treatment is exactly what I picked up on when I reviewed sabie's other recent scum game earlier. In that game she avoided giving reads on each of her teammates early in the game despite there being plenty to talk about on each of them, and her having plenty to say about other folks. I didn't notice that Mac and Tony had an exchange about this as well.

[Sloonei]

[mention]Glorfindel[/mention] I don't see Mac and Tony talking about that anywhere. Can you point me to the exchange you're referring to?

[Glorfindel]

@Glorfindel I don't see Mac and Tony talking about that anywhere. Can you point me to the exchange you're referring to?

Read #103 to about #118...

[Sloonei]

Got it. Thanks, Glorf.

Mac's original post:

I'm glad my vote provoked some content Sabie.

However here's what I see in it.

Player salad. Hitler tell (mild accuse > play your own devil's advocate > outcome null). Interesting tell (mafia say interesting when they don't want to provoke). Forcing reads just to make the post look more exhaustive. Hell you even felt the need to point out three no shows which looked like an attempt to turn what was a rambling salad into a full game read.

Note to civs: If Sabie flips scum her refusal to offer a read on TSP because she has no meta stands in contrast to the fact that she made a non meta analysis of Creature/Epignosis. Very strong chances of TSP mafia if sabie mafia.

Also what's with picking on Glorfindel who is never Mafia. He subs out when he rolls mafia. It is known.

Anyone want to tell me why we shouldn't lynch Sabie today?

Sabie if you are a civilian I will find you. Just keep pushing past me and finding Mafia. Hot tip, I am obviously a civilian here.

TSP's reponse:

Spoiler: show

So mac has given up on defending himself or making cases on people he accuses? Or does that not even need to happen anymore because in games I've played lately it seems like people don't have to bother to give reasons anymore. Every time I think mac is bad because he's given up and doesn't care I end up being wrong so I dont know.

As of right now I don't know for sure. I have such a hard time making reads day 1. The exchange between creature and epi was interesting but I thought that about creature and another player before and everyone was like oh that's not weird and they weren't bad so I don't know. Could they be teammates? Maybe but I feel like they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

I feel like Jack and spirityo are usually more quick to go around making accusations and getting people to talk but have been more cautious this day 1. BWT also was quick to say vote epi but didnt and hasnt said much other than that they didnt know if they checked in.

We have yet to hear from oreki colin and dragomir

I dont think I've ever played with TSP before so I dont have anything to go on. Sloonei and LC seem like they're usual selves at this point.
Glorfindel seems to be making an effort to follow Jimmy's guide and be like a super civ. Could be an effort to make sure they seem as civ as possible when maybe they aren't.

Nothing to go on?!? I said like half a dozen things.
Analysis in less words than Mac: a lot of hedging. Too many words for no real scum accusation.
A general tell especially early is that mafia makes town reads and that town makes scum reads within this kinda context and this seems clear of that but clear in the sense that every analysis was “this seems suspicious I wonder what I think about that will you please tell me what I should think about it”

Is over-punctuation a scumtell?

Sabie was already under fire and I think this is the first instance of TSP going after her. There's nothing that would necessitate civilian Tony here. I've already talked about another incident between these two that looked staged as well.

[Glorfindel]

I think things are kinda desperate for us here. Jack says he’s Town. I’ve got nothing but this weird feeling in my water that he might be Mafia. If we assume he’s Town (because no other option really makes any sense) what do we make of his insistence that Creature is Town too. How can he be so sure? My problem is Creature seems like too easy an option. Mac’s judgement was on point early this game. Even if he was converted Day 2, he was authentic Town Day 1. I think Sloonei has convinced me. I’m taking a chance here but I trust him. If I’m wrong, well, I learn from this.

[MacDougall]

Sloonei and TSP are more civ than Creature. TSP voted Sabie both day 1 and 2 didn't he?

2 votes on 4 wagons and his vote is on Sabie.

[MacDougall]

I'd rather lynch Creature. He seems certain to be the recruit.

[MacDougall]

Put down the flaming swords and open your eyes. Creature has gone full mafia Creature if Jack's meta analysis is accurate.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Got it. Thanks, Glorf.

Mac's original post:

I'm glad my vote provoked some content Sabie.

However here's what I see in it.

Player salad. Hitler tell (mild accuse > play your own devil's advocate > outcome null). Interesting tell (mafia say interesting when they don't want to provoke). Forcing reads just to make the post look more exhaustive. Hell you even felt the need to point out three no shows which looked like an attempt to turn what was a rambling salad into a full game read.

Note to civs: If Sabie flips scum her refusal to offer a read on TSP because she has no meta stands in contrast to the fact that she made a non meta analysis of Creature/Epignosis. Very strong chances of TSP mafia if sabie mafia.

Also what's with picking on Glorfindel who is never Mafia. He subs out when he rolls mafia. It is known.

Anyone want to tell me why we shouldn't lynch Sabie today?

Sabie if you are a civilian I will find you. Just keep pushing past me and finding Mafia. Hot tip, I am obviously a civilian here.

TSP's reponse:

Spoiler: show

So mac has given up on defending himself or making cases on people he accuses? Or does that not even need to happen anymore because in games I've played lately it seems like people don't have to bother to give reasons anymore. Every time I think mac is bad because he's given up and doesn't care I end up being wrong so I dont know.

As of right now I don't know for sure. I have such a hard time making reads day 1. The exchange between creature and epi was interesting but I thought that about creature and another player before and everyone was like oh that's not weird and they weren't bad so I don't know. Could they be teammates? Maybe but I feel like they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

I feel like Jack and spirityo are usually more quick to go around making accusations and getting people to talk but have been more cautious this day 1. BWT also was quick to say vote epi but didnt and hasnt said much other than that they didnt know if they checked in.

We have yet to hear from oreki colin and dragomir

I dont think I've ever played with TSP before so I dont have anything to go on. Sloonei and LC seem like they're usual selves at this point.
Glorfindel seems to be making an effort to follow Jimmy's guide and be like a super civ. Could be an effort to make sure they seem as civ as possible when maybe they aren't.

Nothing to go on?!? I said like half a dozen things.
Analysis in less words than Mac: a lot of hedging. Too many words for no real scum accusation.
A general tell especially early is that mafia makes town reads and that town makes scum reads within this kinda context and this seems clear of that but clear in the sense that every analysis was “this seems suspicious I wonder what I think about that will you please tell me what I should think about it”

Is over-punctuation a scumtell?

Sabie was already under fire and I think this is the first instance of TSP going after her. There's nothing that would necessitate civilian Tony here. I've already talked about another incident between these two that looked staged as well.

This isn’t my reply to Mac this is my first comment to Sabie. I guess it mentions Mac but there’s also a post where I directly reply to Mac so maybe you’ll wanna find that one.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

Witch Hunt: Why is everyone scum?

Creature - Has dropped off as the game has gone on, playstyle resembles another recent scum game. sabie kept him at arm's length when she was alive and he voted for Not Sabie Day 1.
Glorfindel - He went to great lengths to justify a scum read on Sabie Day 1. Could be an elaborate bussing effort.
Jackofhearts - Screwed around early, sabie expressed vague "iffy" scum read of him all of Day 1 and then backed off Day 2. Never voted for sabie.
Macdougall - Has dropped off since pouncing on sabie Day 1. Sabie seemed shook when he caught her Day 1. Possible recuit.
birdwithteeth - Has not done anything extraordinary one way or another since subbing in.
TonyStarkPrime - Deep wolf. I found some holes in his sabie interactions despite what would have had to be an aggressive bussing strategy.

Which of these arguments was the hardest to come up with/least convincing?
Glorfindel by a mile. Jack and birdwithteeth arguments also felt weak.

Mac needs to be the recruit if he's bad. Creature can be either, though I haven't done a deep look at his posts in a while so there might be something which changes my mind on that. I surprisingly still feel the strongest about the TonyStark read, but that could just be recency bias.

Trustfall: Why is everyone town?

Creature - Doesn't give a shit about optics. Criticism of the sabie wagon on Day 1 would be a very bold move from a Day 1 bad guy in a relatively new environment. Voted to lynch sabie.
Glorfindel - Was on board the sabie lynch from the beginning, has been an active and engaged presence throughout, Cannot Tell a Lie.
Jackofhearts - Doesn't give a shit about optics, was sabie's #1 target on Day 1.
Macdougall - Caught sabie Day 1.
birdwithteeth - Oreki wasn't even here for the first phase. birdwithteeth's presence since subbing back in resembles the player called birdwithteeth that we lynched on Day 1.
TonyStarkPrime - Look at him go. Has been the most consistent analytical voice on this list. Voted for sabie Days 1 & 2.

Glorf's still the best looking guy here (hey we're an all male game now. The Fucking Patriarchy wins again.). I feel better about my argument for birdwithteeth than the argument against him, but neither is especially strong. None of these were really difficult to come up with, honestly.

The three names that I'm getting stuck on are Mac, TSP, and Creature. A mafia team of Master Tony, Lou Tenant Sabie, and Recruit Mac might make some sense.

@Sloonei: I’m kinda with you on your suspicion of TSP. He admitted earlier this Day phase that he DID only place his vote on Sabie in the dying minutes of Day one when things were all tied up and he could do so with maximum safety. I think being Day 1, it’s more unlikely then, as ever that there would’ve been any external influences at play so in short, if he wanted to bus Sabie for Cred but not lose her, he’d have had no better opportunity. Might be a bit of a long bow but that post where Mac picked up on Sabie’s avoiding posting a read on TSP on the grounds of not being familiar with his game but then posting opinion pieces on other players with whom she also had limited exposure and TSP’s response to Mac on that do look a little strange to me.

That was day 2 not day 1. Day 1 Vote was on most of the day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It’s hard to feel that this case is in good faith when half of it is just wrong and the other half is “Mac said he was probably mafia on day 1 and we just discovered this so let’s come up with extra stuff while we’re here”

[Glorfindel]

Sloonei and TSP are more civ than Creature. TSP voted Sabie both day 1 and 2 didn't he?

2 votes on 4 wagons and his vote is on Sabie.

Mac, please work with me on this one - look at the post I quoted of yours from Day 1 in response to Sabie’s post in which you commented that based on her refusal to ‘read’ TSP, that he must be Mafia is Sabie was. Shortly after you posted that, TSP latched on to Sabie (please correct me if I’m incorrect there). His response looks to me like it’s extremely defensive and looking at it now, I don’t think it looks good at all.

As for Creature, I said his lynch felt too easy and I’m starting to feel even more that way now. The guy has stopped playing, hasn’t he? I don’t know him all that well but I can’t see him doing that as Mafia.

Someone (Sloonei, perhaps) suggested that you might be the recruit. If that were the case (hypothetically speaking), your trying to influence my vote back to Creature (and abandoning your initial remarks about TSP) would make more sense, would it not? I’m just trying to keep an open mind to all the possibilities...

I’ll be back before EOD in the morning and I promise you now, I will vote to save Sloonei if it comes to that.

[Glorfindel]

Spoiler: show

Witch Hunt: Why is everyone scum?

Creature - Has dropped off as the game has gone on, playstyle resembles another recent scum game. sabie kept him at arm's length when she was alive and he voted for Not Sabie Day 1.
Glorfindel - He went to great lengths to justify a scum read on Sabie Day 1. Could be an elaborate bussing effort.
Jackofhearts - Screwed around early, sabie expressed vague "iffy" scum read of him all of Day 1 and then backed off Day 2. Never voted for sabie.
Macdougall - Has dropped off since pouncing on sabie Day 1. Sabie seemed shook when he caught her Day 1. Possible recuit.
birdwithteeth - Has not done anything extraordinary one way or another since subbing in.
TonyStarkPrime - Deep wolf. I found some holes in his sabie interactions despite what would have had to be an aggressive bussing strategy.

Which of these arguments was the hardest to come up with/least convincing?
Glorfindel by a mile. Jack and birdwithteeth arguments also felt weak.

Mac needs to be the recruit if he's bad. Creature can be either, though I haven't done a deep look at his posts in a while so there might be something which changes my mind on that. I surprisingly still feel the strongest about the TonyStark read, but that could just be recency bias.

Trustfall: Why is everyone town?

Creature - Doesn't give a shit about optics. Criticism of the sabie wagon on Day 1 would be a very bold move from a Day 1 bad guy in a relatively new environment. Voted to lynch sabie.
Glorfindel - Was on board the sabie lynch from the beginning, has been an active and engaged presence throughout, Cannot Tell a Lie.
Jackofhearts - Doesn't give a shit about optics, was sabie's #1 target on Day 1.
Macdougall - Caught sabie Day 1.
birdwithteeth - Oreki wasn't even here for the first phase. birdwithteeth's presence since subbing back in resembles the player called birdwithteeth that we lynched on Day 1.
TonyStarkPrime - Look at him go. Has been the most consistent analytical voice on this list. Voted for sabie Days 1 & 2.

Glorf's still the best looking guy here (hey we're an all male game now. The Fucking Patriarchy wins again.). I feel better about my argument for birdwithteeth than the argument against him, but neither is especially strong. None of these were really difficult to come up with, honestly.

The three names that I'm getting stuck on are Mac, TSP, and Creature. A mafia team of Master Tony, Lou Tenant Sabie, and Recruit Mac might make some sense.

@Sloonei: I’m kinda with you on your suspicion of TSP. He admitted earlier this Day phase that he DID only place his vote on Sabie in the dying minutes of Day one when things were all tied up and he could do so with maximum safety. I think being Day 1, it’s more unlikely then, as ever that there would’ve been any external influences at play so in short, if he wanted to bus Sabie for Cred but not lose her, he’d have had no better opportunity. Might be a bit of a long bow but that post where Mac picked up on Sabie’s avoiding posting a read on TSP on the grounds of not being familiar with his game but then posting opinion pieces on other players with whom she also had limited exposure and TSP’s response to Mac on that do look a little strange to me.

That was day 2 not day 1. Day 1 Vote was on most of the day.

OK, let me review this .

[Sloonei]

Got it. Thanks, Glorf.

Mac's original post:

I'm glad my vote provoked some content Sabie.

However here's what I see in it.

Player salad. Hitler tell (mild accuse > play your own devil's advocate > outcome null). Interesting tell (mafia say interesting when they don't want to provoke). Forcing reads just to make the post look more exhaustive. Hell you even felt the need to point out three no shows which looked like an attempt to turn what was a rambling salad into a full game read.

Note to civs: If Sabie flips scum her refusal to offer a read on TSP because she has no meta stands in contrast to the fact that she made a non meta analysis of Creature/Epignosis. Very strong chances of TSP mafia if sabie mafia.

Also what's with picking on Glorfindel who is never Mafia. He subs out when he rolls mafia. It is known.

Anyone want to tell me why we shouldn't lynch Sabie today?

Sabie if you are a civilian I will find you. Just keep pushing past me and finding Mafia. Hot tip, I am obviously a civilian here.

TSP's reponse:

Spoiler: show

So mac has given up on defending himself or making cases on people he accuses? Or does that not even need to happen anymore because in games I've played lately it seems like people don't have to bother to give reasons anymore. Every time I think mac is bad because he's given up and doesn't care I end up being wrong so I dont know.

As of right now I don't know for sure. I have such a hard time making reads day 1. The exchange between creature and epi was interesting but I thought that about creature and another player before and everyone was like oh that's not weird and they weren't bad so I don't know. Could they be teammates? Maybe but I feel like they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

I feel like Jack and spirityo are usually more quick to go around making accusations and getting people to talk but have been more cautious this day 1. BWT also was quick to say vote epi but didnt and hasnt said much other than that they didnt know if they checked in.

We have yet to hear from oreki colin and dragomir

I dont think I've ever played with TSP before so I dont have anything to go on. Sloonei and LC seem like they're usual selves at this point.
Glorfindel seems to be making an effort to follow Jimmy's guide and be like a super civ. Could be an effort to make sure they seem as civ as possible when maybe they aren't.

Nothing to go on?!? I said like half a dozen things.
Analysis in less words than Mac: a lot of hedging. Too many words for no real scum accusation.
A general tell especially early is that mafia makes town reads and that town makes scum reads within this kinda context and this seems clear of that but clear in the sense that every analysis was “this seems suspicious I wonder what I think about that will you please tell me what I should think about it”

Is over-punctuation a scumtell?

Sabie was already under fire and I think this is the first instance of TSP going after her. There's nothing that would necessitate civilian Tony here. I've already talked about another incident between these two that looked staged as well.

This isn’t my reply to Mac this is my first comment to Sabie. I guess it mentions Mac but there’s also a post where I directly reply to Mac so maybe you’ll wanna find that one.

I did not mean to suggest that you were responding to Mac in any way there. I can read nd I knownwhat your post is. I hardly consider this to be a part of a case against you, it’s just a thread to tug at.

[Sloonei]

It’s hard to feel that this case is in good faith when half of it is just wrong and the other half is “Mac said he was probably mafia on day 1 and we just discovered this so let’s come up with extra stuff while we’re here”

What’s the half that is wrong?

[TonyStarkPrime]

It’s hard to feel that this case is in good faith when half of it is just wrong and the other half is “Mac said he was probably mafia on day 1 and we just discovered this so let’s come up with extra stuff while we’re here”

What’s the half that is wrong?

Okay maybe not half. Feels like it. Glorf’s thing about vote day 1/2, some weird quotes, the thing on Epi’s analysis. I get that you’re saying you’re just following every lead but this seems thin.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Have Creature and Bwt shown up today?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Is Creature a better POE start than Sloonei?
If he’s not really in the game then he might be. He could also be master (barring Jack’s townclear) and recruit like Sloonei so it seems like those are easily the best two options.

[Sloonei]

Have Creature and Bwt shown up today?

I think it’s just been you, me, and glorf today. Jack dropped a vote on me and left right at the beginning.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Have Creature and Bwt shown up today?

I think it’s just been you, me, and glorf today. Jack dropped a vote on me and left right at the beginning.

and Mac came in threw some punches and left too

[Sloonei]

Is Creature a better POE start than Sloonei?
If he’s not really in the game then he might be. He could also be master (barring Jack’s townclear) and recruit like Sloonei so it seems like those are easily the best two options.

Well, from my perspective, yeah, a little. I question the view that this game only makes sense if I am bad though. That part can’t be right and I have to wonder why we’re pinned in that corner.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If you’re not mafia then Mac is almost definitely the recruit and BWT or Creature has to be the master. If you are mafia there are far more options.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Or Jack has tricked me big time

[TonyStarkPrime]

For the records I switched my vote to Creature 20 minutes or so ago [VOTE: creature] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Creature is on my short list. [mention]Creature[/mention] who should be lynched instead of you today?

[Sloonei]

I looked through Creature's posts. His Day 1 has a certain ring of authenticity to it, but I lose confidence in that read going forward. I don't know if that's because I'm predisposed to be wary of recruitment, or if he just kind of dropped off, or if there is actually something to it. Day 1 he was spewing venom at everyone and doing some things. Days 2 & 3 it felt like he was just kind of a person standing in the thread watching things happen. He feels stagnant. His reads exist, but he's not really moving them in any meaningful way. This is the latest list of reads he provided, shortly before EoD 3.

ColinIsCool - ColinIsNotCool TOWN
Creature - Obvtown through EOD2
Dragomir - Useless slot TOWN
Glorfindel - Town
Jackofhearts2005 - I might've been too precipitated to townread here
MacDougall - Possible recruit
Oreki / birdwithteeth11 - Been worthless so far
Sloonei - Town
sprityo - Town - TOWN
TonyStarkPrime - Town

So the only surviving non-town read from Creature's list here is birdwithteeth, which is utterly uninspiring and not enough to cover the entire remaining scum teem. Creature, this list is sorely in need of updating. Come in here and move some things around, solve the game, eat cupcakes like a champion.
winners get cupcakes, btw

[Sloonei]

Oh I guess Mac has a "possible recruit" read on him as well. I still find that list uninspiring though.

[Sloonei]

Inspecting Mac

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

Let's get some obvscum out of the way.

Would also happily lynch sprityo.

LC, Epi, Creature, TSP and Sloonei town til proven otherwise.

I am ignoring cases, voting or trolling against me in this game. Deal with that as you please. Like I am not going to spend a second defending myself. I am only solving.

This is the very first time anyone mentions sabie in any context this game. This is too aggressive to be bussing, even for Mac. Bussing happens when a teammate already has some pressure on them. Distancing is a thing that teammates can do preemptively, but this is not that.

I'm glad my vote provoked some content Sabie.

However here's what I see in it.

Player salad. Hitler tell (mild accuse > play your own devil's advocate > outcome null). Interesting tell (mafia say interesting when they don't want to provoke). Forcing reads just to make the post look more exhaustive. Hell you even felt the need to point out three no shows which looked like an attempt to turn what was a rambling salad into a full game read.

Note to civs: If Sabie flips scum her refusal to offer a read on TSP because she has no meta stands in contrast to the fact that she made a non meta analysis of Creature/Epignosis. Very strong chances of TSP mafia if sabie mafia.

Also what's with picking on Glorfindel who is never Mafia. He subs out when he rolls mafia. It is known.

Anyone want to tell me why we shouldn't lynch Sabie today?

Sabie if you are a civilian I will find you. Just keep pushing past me and finding Mafia. Hot tip, I am obviously a civilian here.

More of the same. If this were any other game, I could be done ISOing Mac right now. But this is unfortunately not any other game. So instead I'm going to skip ahead to Day 2, when the recruit would have finished being recruited.

So are we gonna give Sabie another day because of pity?

Early reminder to lynch sabie. But then...

Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?

Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?

I don’t have any strong recollection of Sabie from the games that I may have played with her long ago. Do you really believe that she (as Mafia) would use real life as an excuse to avoid scrutiny here? I’ll confess, Epi’s post kinda put me off voting her. I can understand how someone who frequently gets mis-lynched early in these games feels. Personally, I’m in two minds about her. I get real life is getting in the way for her but I don’t really think the pace of this game is necessarily that bad... it would be nice to see a little more from her.

Not that elephant, the Dragomir and Oreki shaped one.

Mac keeps beating the sabie drum, but also transitions to another pair of targets immediately after: oreki and dragmir. Is this worth being concerned about? Not entirely, because he is in no way dropping the sabie case:

Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?

I don’t have any strong recollection of Sabie from the games that I may have played with her long ago. Do you really believe that she (as Mafia) would use real life as an excuse to avoid scrutiny here? I’ll confess, Epi’s post kinda put me off voting her. I can understand how someone who frequently gets mis-lynched early in these games feels. Personally, I’m in two minds about her. I get real life is getting in the way for her but I don’t really think the pace of this game is necessarily that bad... it would be nice to see a little more from her.

Okay I'll change my angle on Sabie.

Maybe she is not inherently mafia for what I am accusing her of.

But is she a civ?

Because right now I am civ reading almost everyone (LC, Sloonei, Creature, TSP, Jack, you, even townpinged by Colin now) and the other option is lynching a no show over her because we feel sorry for her for getting lynched and killed a lot.

So in my view the question is;

Functional, useful, info gather Sabie lynch, or
Lynching one of the no shows

I'm going to leave it up to the board of directors here because apparently I am "angry" and emitting a "bizarre energy" or some shit.

But at this point I can circle back to my earlier point about bussing: it happens when a teammate already has pressure on them, and the risk of sticking one's neck out to defend them is greater than the risk of just wiping one's hands clean. If Mac is the recruit then he unknowingly backed himself into a corner on Day 1 by campaigning hard for sabie to be lynched. He has to keep that up on Day 2 if they're now teammates, but at this point her lynch is looking like an inevitability anyway, so it's much more advantageous for Hypothetical Recruit Macdougall to just keep hammering away at this case rather than to change course. But how do we distinguish between that and genuine civilian Macdougall? Idk, so I'll just continue looking at his content and weighing in on both sides.

Take this post, for instance. Mac highlights Dead Epi's list of reads and emphasizes all the suspects but leaves out sabie. Epi explicitly gives us a "No Comment" on sabie here, but that's only because he had already previously said everything he had to say about sabie, and his position was one of firm opposition. Does civilian Mac need to be conscious of this at the moment when he's typing his own response? No. But it is something I need to take note of when I'm trying to figure out if Day 2 Mac has a different alignment from Day 1 Mac.

His next move is to look into Epi's suspects, starting with an LC ISO, which came back inconclusive. He framed his final LC read around Colin here though, which is questionable, though it is not uncommon for Mac to hunt in this style. I still find his conclusions a little dubious. It seems like his points are more favorable than unfavorable for LC, but the end result is "Killing Colin (a civilian) will tell us more about Long Con (a civilian)." I do not like that framing device.

LC/Creature is a scum pairing that makes me feel tingles in my body.

Talk about each other please.

He also throws Creature in as a prospective LC partner.

sprityo implication

Valid point tbh. Probs a middling player like Jack or LC.

Mac agrees with me when I suggest that the mutants would not target a high profile recruit. Noted.

... And that's mostly it for Day 2 Mac. Outside of those two early mentions of sabie, Mac spent the entire day looking elsewhere. Pro-Mac argument: He had already said everything there was to say about sabie and wanted to move onto other targets. Anti-Mac argument: He had fully committed to lynching Sabie Day 1 when he was a civilian, and couldn't 180 on that position as mafia on Day 2. But he could try to shift the focus elsewhere while still more quietly promoting a sabie lynch. It's also Day 4 and he's not dead yet. That isn't totally shocking if he's town: LC was being town read by just about everyone but Mac by the end of Day 2, and my big mouth got sprityo townfirmed during Night 3. But Mac's Day 1 behavior should have cleared him (in a normal game, at least), but he hasn't been touched yet.

It's not evidence, but it's indication: his play majorly changed.

I wanted Sabie lynched. I voted for Sabie. I had said my piece at length about Sabie on day 1 and I got nowhere with it. People just opposed me because of the innate contrarianism.

Fast forward to day 2. I vote for her and say shit all and she gets lynched and flips wolf.

I changed the way I played day 2 because the way I played on day 1 yielded no result.

I absolutely do not agree with the last line here and I'm not sure I buy it coming from Mac's keyboard.

Mac's Day 1 absolutely yielded results. Look at the progress that was made because of his shitflinging. Mac knows that mafia is a long haul. We didn't lynch his target, but he got things done and had momentum on his side. I don't think Mac makes an abrupt change like this because his favorite target wasn't lynched. I call shenanigans.

Sorry I missed the lynch, I just moved and don't have the internet at home and my phone went flat and I left my charger at work and just got here.

Mac was absent nearly all of Day 3, but this explains that and I won't make any argument against him for it.

Since then the bulk of Mac's content has been arguing with/about Jack and Tony, with a lone mention of BWT. I'd like to hear him explain those reads more lucidly. Which one's the recruit and which one's the master? Why are all the other people not mafia? What's happening in Macland?

I can buy a world where mac is the recruit. I cannot buy a world where Mac is the Master.

[Sloonei]

Alright baseball in Europe apparently sucks because Rick Porcello can't get anyone out, so I'm doing more of this.

I have not been able to talk myself into suspecting birdwithteeth since he subbed back into the game. I'm looking at his posts again and have found a couple reasons why:

Does sabie’s flip change any of this?

Not really. I figured most of her lynch was another lazy civ wagon for the most part.

I'm having trouble making sense of these two sentences together. Your impression of the sabie lynch was that town was just being lazy (seeming to imply you read sabie as town), but the fact that sabie flipped bad does nothing to change your outlook on the game? At least as it pertains to the two players in question?

I honest to God thought her role was a civ one and it didn't register to me. But yes, she was coming off as civ to me.

I don't think it changes how I feel about Colin, but I need to evaluate some things first. Because it might.

This would be a bizarre thing for Mafia bwt to fake. It appears to all the world that he is fully aware that sabie has been lynched in the first post, but that he thought she was a civilian. What in the hell kind of response would that be to a teammate's lynch? "Hey I'm gonna pretend to think you were town for 10 seconds after you get lynched." Nah. If that's a deliberate move he just pulled I'll be shocked and impressed.

I'm sorry all I see people are saying I'm a nonpaticipant and I dont mean to be but I have a lot going on. I want to be here for end of day but I can't guarantee I will be because of my work schedule. If I have to put a vote somewhere I feel worse about creature than I do sloonei. Sloonei is putting together cases and provoking conversation. I feel like creature has yet to put forth as much effort into the game while also complaining the game is too boring. If he felt like he wanted to change things or had stronger feelings elsewhere he could have day 1 but didnt. I'm putting my vote there now. [VOTE: creature] aubergine

If my meeting gets out early I will try to be here for end of day if I can. Again I apologize for not being here as much as I could be.

Her very last post before being lynched, she feels worse about Creature than sloonei. I'm still leaning terrible civ playthrough for Creature, but this really makes me question it a bit. I think I still have an ever-so-slight civ lean on Sloonei though.

So I guess in conclusion, I feel worse about Creature, the same about sloonei and Colin, and I think there's a chance sabie bussed one teammate and is covering for another.

The easiest thing for bwt2.0 to do in this game would have been to come in with a vendetta against Sloonei, the player most responsible for his predecessor's mislynch, and ride that to the end. He did nitpick me a little early on, but I didn't get the sense he was doing it maliciously and I feel like he's been receptive to the player called Sloonei in this game. If he's mafia, he can just act all pouty about the guy who got him lynched the first time around and it'll appear fully justified, especially when that player has been at least a marginal suspect for the entire game. birdwithteeth has treated me fairly. I feel good about that.

There are still some concerns, of course. Despite what I just said, I'm still near the top of his list today, and I don't really know much about his thoughts beyond "How Sloonei flips may determine for me who is on the baddie team" and a secondary suspicion on Jack. Why are the other players generally town reads? How would my flip help to sort things out?

town read on this dude, but not totally satisfied yet.

[Sloonei]

So my POE is Tony, Mac, and Creature I think.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright baseball in Europe apparently sucks because Rick Porcello can't get anyone out

I can hear the English accent in the crowd's "Let's go Red Sox!" chant. Also I don't think any of these spectators owns a baseball glove, so somebody is going to get nailed by a foul ball.

[Sloonei]

Alright baseball in Europe apparently sucks because Rick Porcello can't get anyone out

I can hear the English accent in the crowd's "Let's go Red Sox!" chant. Also I don't think any of these spectators owns a baseball glove, so somebody is going to get nailed by a foul ball.

Smoltz made a good point on the broadcast about that though: there’s a mile of foul territory, so the ball’s not really traveling that fast by the time it reaches the fans.

Tanaka can’t get anyone out either, so maybe European baseball isn’t too bad.

[Sloonei]

lmao holy shit, english people are getting such a skewed representation of Major League Baseball right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lmao holy shit, english people are getting such a skewed representation of Major League Baseball right now.

Gotta rival cricket in game duration to impress them

[Epignosis]

The over hit in the first inning.

[birdwithteeth11]

But also, here's another thing that pinged me about Tony when reviewing his posts:

Sloonei's switch to birdwithteeth looks bad now

Analysis: Bullshit

Seems like good analysis

A few hours later...

Sloonei's switch to birdwithteeth looks bad now

This is dumb and what makes me suspect creature outside of just potential w/w with sabie.

Though I don’t buy the narrative that creature came in and caused a firestorm it seems like most of the game played around him just fine.

What?

What???

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!

[birdwithteeth11]

[VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine because this game needs to be turned on its head.

I can guarantee you that’s not a winning strategy if you’re town and you seem smart enough to find a winning strategy.

So I guess [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Nice no u there

[birdwithteeth11]

BWT master
This strikes me in some ways as the most simple explanation. he’s been playing thus far exactly as I would as a replacement into mafia, lying low but contributing to the discussion as necessary. Likely recruits Sloonei, Creature, maybe Mac or Jack

Tbh I probably would have recruited you or Jack if I had replaced into that role.

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine because this game needs to be turned on its head.

I can guarantee you that’s not a winning strategy if you’re town and you seem smart enough to find a winning strategy.

So I guess [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Nice no u there

well it’s true

[TonyStarkPrime]

But also, here's another thing that pinged me about Tony when reviewing his posts:

Sloonei's switch to birdwithteeth looks bad now

Analysis: Bullshit

Seems like good analysis

A few hours later...

Sloonei's switch to birdwithteeth looks bad now

This is dumb and what makes me suspect creature outside of just potential w/w with sabie.

Though I don’t buy the narrative that creature came in and caused a firestorm it seems like most of the game played around him just fine.

What?

What???

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!

I’m not going over this again

[TonyStarkPrime]

BWT master
This strikes me in some ways as the most simple explanation. he’s been playing thus far exactly as I would as a replacement into mafia, lying low but contributing to the discussion as necessary. Likely recruits Sloonei, Creature, maybe Mac or Jack

Tbh I probably would have recruited you or Jack if I had replaced into that role.

You wouldn’t have recruited anyone because Lou does the recruiting in phase zero. Tempted to call it Town that you didn’t know

[birdwithteeth11]

Have Creature and Bwt shown up today?

Sorry I worked late last night and early this morning so I'm just checking in now.

[Sloonei]

Have Creature and Bwt shown up today?

Sorry I worked late last night and early this morning so I'm just checking in now.

Why would my flip be the most informative in the game?
If Jack and I are town, who's bad?

[birdwithteeth11]

Okay, so now that we've had the back and forth wall of discussion from TSP and Sloonei, I think this is where I currently stand.

Between the odds of who could be the Master vs. who could be the Recruit, I'm thinking about basing my vote on the odds of what lynching a certain person reveals in terms of information/clarity on the other players. And IMO, that person is probably Creature. I wasn't sure on Sloonei or TSP at first, but I feel like the discussion they were leading led to them butting heads and voting each other, but then being able to step back from that idea and re-examine the game as a whole. If either of them is mafia and managed to fake that, my hat is off to either or both of you as soon as this game ends.

So yeah, I don't have the energy right now to do the kind of examination I want to do, but I'm putting my vote on Creature for now. I might try to take a nap and come back before EOD to see if I can find anything else worthwhile to cover.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Sloonei]

i assume no one's here because we're all distracted by this wacky ass baseball game.

[Glorfindel]

Okay, so now that we've had the back and forth wall of discussion from TSP and Sloonei, I think this is where I currently stand.

Between the odds of who could be the Master vs. who could be the Recruit, I'm thinking about basing my vote on the odds of what lynching a certain person reveals in terms of information/clarity on the other players. And IMO, that person is probably Creature. I wasn't sure on Sloonei or TSP at first, but I feel like the discussion they were leading led to them butting heads and voting each other, but then being able to step back from that idea and re-examine the game as a whole. If either of them is mafia and managed to fake that, my hat is off to either or both of you as soon as this game ends.

So yeah, I don't have the energy right now to do the kind of examination I want to do, but I'm putting my vote on Creature for now. I might try to take a nap and come back before EOD to see if I can find anything else worthwhile to cover.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

I just want to say that I think this is wrong and bad play for the following reasons:

1. Creature’s demised will provide us with lots of information. REALLY? He’s barely posted in days. Forgive me but just what information do you expect we’d gain from his lynch?

2. This is end game, I think it’s silly for us to be ‘lynching for info’ now. We should be lynching to eliminate Mafia.

[Sloonei]

Who's mafia, glorf?

[Glorfindel]

Who's mafia, glorf?

I know I’m going to get hammered for this but for all sorts of reasons I’ve already covered, I think your PoE makes the most sense to me. The fact that both TSP and Mac are advocating Creature’s lynch at the moment feels bad. BWT’s vote looks to me like he really doesn’t understand what’s gone on here over this last Day phase.

Not that it makes any difference now, but I’m switching back to TSP. I’d rather lose this game being right than not...