Girl Genius (END)

[Long Con]

I'm cool with dragomir, lunalee or nutella going. Maybe creature.

Salad! I found it Creature I figured it out it’s this.

Lol gottem

Tony finding it looks good on him as well, to me.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

If Luna was scum would this be bad?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

If Luna was scum would this be bad?

Epi’s hypothesis is that baddies would always take the easy lynch and anything that wasn’t “yay I’ll vote for Luna we caught scum” is town.
Which presents a series of problems.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah, I love taking strong stances on things I don’t actually care about when I’m a wolf for exactly that reason.

[juliets]

Freddy mechanics would be nice in a game like this.

What are Freddy mechanics?

RIP nova and quin, sad to see you both go.

I think he’s referring to a player from HCRealms, Fredwood. I’m guessing he’s known for mechanical analysis. He’s played a few games here.

Now tell me who you’ll belooking at today, juliets.

Oh that’s not it. I do miss Fred though. We played in the hydra championship on mafiauniverse and that was the least fun game I’ve ever played in my life I’ve never seen so many people go berserk.

Jack can you explain this one
Jackofhearts2005

Really not liking the immediate hop onto LC. His first post today was scummy but I’m of the opinion that it’s easy to read every single death reaction post as scummy if so inclined.

Yeah, I'm kinda trying to decide what to make of Owner and Drago.

I tend to think Drago and Creature both get flack for style and Owner looks kinda townie for the weird stream of consciousness posting.

But LC does not merit 3 votes off his entrance and him getting 3 votes is setting off alarm bells.

I have spent 45 minutes looking for things LC has done that warrant 3 votes. He played chess with Tony in the thread and Owner felt like his RIP was scummy. [mention]Dragomir[/mention] [mention]Creature[/mention] and [mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention] are there other things LC has done that I missed? I'm hearing those alarm bells that Jack is hearing.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Flip side thought though: one of the three almost has to be scum just on probability, if LC is town or scum. Would there ever be two? Maybe? If only one is scum who is most likely scum?

[juliets]

Flip side thought though: one of the three almost has to be scum just on probability, if LC is town or scum. Would there ever be two? Maybe? If only one is scum who is most likely scum?

Owner seems townish to me so I'm off to read Drago and Creature right after I read Dom to see what's going on there. I guess I'll read Owner too just to confirm my feeling about her.

[TonyStarkPrime]

After this game, I would love to have a conversation about the balance implications of replacing a player with a dead player and saying replacements can't be lynched on the phase they replace in.

I'm not saying this is a problem. I'm saying I want to talk about it when it doesn't have a direct effect on an ongoing game.

You can NK me though <3

(But seriously, I had discussions about dead player replacing in before, and there's definitely things one can discuss. But since I was asked I answered.)

The long and the short of my opinion is "scum players should have to approve replacements consisting of any players they had any hand in eliminating."

Like if I'm scum and I eliminate a player because they are a scary townie or because they suspect me, the host should not then put them right back in the game.

But if the sker kills that same scary player, wolf Jack shouldn't have a say in them coming back or not.

Also, I just find the "no lynching replacements" thing fascinating and haven't played out the game theory of what that would mean for a game. I think that shouldn't happen at lylo and there are some problematic things like a red peeked wolf vigilante replacing out and now the town can't lynch them and the wolves get an extra kill via replacement. Overall, I do think giving replacements a free day is certainly a nice thing to do for replacements. Like replacing in and getting lynched for scummy things the old player did sucks and that's one reason players don't like to sign up as replacements. Another is having to act without catching up and this gives the players a guaranteed amount of time to catch up and then make an impact.

So it's probably a net positive except in some corner cases.

If it helps, the game's rules say no replacements of any kind will happen after Night 4.

I hate LyLo replacements even more than I hate modkills.

I hate lylo replacements but I hate going into lylo where the town literally cannot win for lack of active votes even more.

It’s the most stupidly frustrating thing and it theoretically devolves into a meta where mafia can play silent all game and take some easy wins and then town has to take random shots on the people who haven’t done anything and that’s just not fun for anyone it’s why all games should have a vig or sk or game mechanic dedicated to killing low/no posters and that’s my soapbox let’s save the rest of it for after the game is over

[juliets]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention], I took a look at your ISO to see why you were voting Dom and all I saw was the quote you called player salad. I saw where you liked his case about nutella. Was the player salad post enough to convince you he is bad? It seems kinda weak to me but maybe I missed something when I did his ISO.

[Epignosis]

If I had to pick three civilians right now, it's Michelle, Owner, and juliets.

If I had to pick a fourth, it's Long Con.

Why for Michelle?

Already said why.

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

Oh ok. I didn't like Michelle assuming red check on Luna, but then also saying she liked her posts though. What do you think about that?

Everybody more or less assumed that. Michelle arguing it with Luna showing up as an independent (and not a mafia member) means that Michelle was theoretically cool having the lynch land on a teammate.

That didn't happen, but Michelle was open to it.

I like that. Good stuff.

I don't get what you're saying here.

Objecting to a non wolf lynch that is going to happen anyway isn't something cred worthy imo.

I didn't feel like the Luna lynch was inevitable.

[Epignosis]

I don't know why "equal opportunity attacker" is being used as a pejorative.

I'm an equal opportunity attacker.

[Epignosis]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

This is also suspicious to me. A mafioso who feels he is in a good place can redirect the lynch while recommending a civilian kill (and potentially waste a shot on) Lunalee.

What makes you think that I feel like I'm a good place?

Are you?

Idk. Answer my question.

I don't know what you feel like. That's why I asked. I think your post is more apt coming from a mafia member than a civilian.

[Epignosis]

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

If Luna was scum would this be bad?

It would be something I would pursue.

[juliets]

Thats the end of the 3:30 Dom ISO. It was rather short lived, some high quality posts and reactions but very little in terms of full substance in analysis. It also all feels off to me. The thing with sig seems forced, the case on Rej (and Nutella for that matter) seems noncommittal for how much effort was put in on Dom’s part, it just seems off.

In re-reads I ran across nutella's reaction to Dom's ISO of her. She said it was just a summary of her posts and had no thesis. I think this is similar to what you are saying about his ISO of her. He doesn't really seem to push at the end of the ISO for her lynch like you would expect with all that content. He could have pushed elsewhere however, I'll have to go back and look at his posts post-ISO.

You sum up your thoughts on Dom by saying "it seems off". Do you mean off from the way Dom normally plays or "off" in some other way?

After I look at Dom's posts post-ISO on nutella I'm going to take a break before I take on Creature and Drago.

[Epignosis]

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

If Luna was scum would this be bad?

Epi’s hypothesis is that baddies would always take the easy lynch and anything that wasn’t “yay I’ll vote for Luna we caught scum” is town.
Which presents a series of problems.

That isn't my hypothesis. It's a stretch. I'm not talking about all mafia members at all times. I'm talking about Michelle's activity during a particular Day phase in a particular context.

[Epignosis]

So let me get this straight.

The proposal of the Day is to lynch Long Con for saying RIP or some such thing.

Or lynch Dom who went after sig out of the gate and followed that up by going after the recruit leader.

Do I have that right?

[juliets]

Ok, I don't see where Dom pushed for her after his ISO. I guess the thing I've got to wrestle with is whether this is just a style point, i.e., this is the way Dom does his ISO's. It will help me Tony when you give some meat to your feeling that he's "off".

linki, lol Epi now you know why I'm asking all these "but why" questions

[TonyStarkPrime]

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

If Luna was scum would this be bad?

Epi’s hypothesis is that baddies would always take the easy lynch and anything that wasn’t “yay I’ll vote for Luna we caught scum” is town.
Which presents a series of problems.

That isn't my hypothesis. It's a stretch. I'm not talking about all mafia members at all times. I'm talking about Michelle's activity during a particular Day phase in a particular context.

I was referring within just that day phase. Context is obviously different in all cases.

I’d be more inclined to believe a post like that to be town if Luna were found scum, because on the assumption (which in your credit you haven’t taken) that the Luna lynch were inevitable any scum would want to push that train.

To that assumption: could I have, if I had really tried, gotten Jack lynched? Or Drago? I don’t think so. Was there anyone else who could have gotten someone lynched? I cannot come up with a scenario after the first 2 or so hours of the day phase where a Luna lynch wasn’t in the cards.

[TonyStarkPrime]

So let me get this straight.

The proposal of the Day is to lynch Long Con for saying RIP or some such thing.

Or lynch Dom who went after sig out of the gate and followed that up by going after the recruit leader.

Do I have that right?

I mean those are two proposals that have thusfar been brought forth.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok, I don't see where Dom pushed for her after his ISO. I guess the thing I've got to wrestle with is whether this is just a style point, i.e., this is the way Dom does his ISO's. It will help me Tony when you give some meat to your feeling that he's "off".

linki, lol Epi now you know why I'm asking all these "but why" questions

Give me about an hour and I’ll come back to this. The short of it is that the sense I’ve gotten of Dom from what others have told me and from what I’ve read of games that he’s in and even in this game is that he’s an aggressive player in general. Given that, the expectation would be that he finishes his cases. Dom instead hasn’t finished any cases.

[juliets]

Ok, I don't see where Dom pushed for her after his ISO. I guess the thing I've got to wrestle with is whether this is just a style point, i.e., this is the way Dom does his ISO's. It will help me Tony when you give some meat to your feeling that he's "off".

linki, lol Epi now you know why I'm asking all these "but why" questions

Give me about an hour and I’ll come back to this. The short of it is that the sense I’ve gotten of Dom from what others have told me and from what I’ve read of games that he’s in and even in this game is that he’s an aggressive player in general. Given that, the expectation would be that he finishes his cases. Dom instead hasn’t finished any cases.

OK Tony that would be great. I have to go for a swim now anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jackofhearts2005, I took a look at your ISO to see why you were voting Dom and all I saw was the quote you called player salad. I saw where you liked his case about nutella. Was the player salad post enough to convince you he is bad? It seems kinda weak to me but maybe I missed something when I did his ISO.

Tony outlined some stuff from Dom that doesn’t really look pure in addition to the salad.

In particular, I’m not a fan of him being like “Nutella is bad for saying people are bad for no reason instead of hunting” Nutella being like “Yeah Jack is bad for no reason” Nutella being lynched as cult and then Dom being like “Nutella has a point on Jack tho.”

Like wut? The entire reason we lynched Nutella was that she didn’t have a point. Not just on me, either.

Feels like not a real thing for Dom to suspect me for.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If I had to pick three civilians right now, it's Michelle, Owner, and juliets.

If I had to pick a fourth, it's Long Con.

Why for Michelle?

Already said why.

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

Oh ok. I didn't like Michelle assuming red check on Luna, but then also saying she liked her posts though. What do you think about that?

Everybody more or less assumed that. Michelle arguing it with Luna showing up as an independent (and not a mafia member) means that Michelle was theoretically cool having the lynch land on a teammate.

That didn't happen, but Michelle was open to it.

I like that. Good stuff.

I don't get what you're saying here.

Objecting to a non wolf lynch that is going to happen anyway isn't something cred worthy imo.

I didn't feel like the Luna lynch was inevitable.

So Michelle was cool with not lynching Luna, which means someone else gets lynched and maybe that someone is her teammate if she’s a wolf, therefore she’s not a wolf?

I firmly disagree. I didn’t feel like Michelle did anything to prevent Luna’s lynch. Neither did anyone else but you’re not giving townreads to anyone else over it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

could I have, if I had really tried, gotten Jack lynched? ... I don’t think so.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

Where’s the part where Dom was after Sig? Cause I don’t even see anything that’s obvious distancing, his treatment of Sig was so mild.

[timmer]

Ok I'm not touching this long con case, trying to judge hidden reasons that may or may not exist for saying that having a bad role die is good is just.... no. Maybe in a brand new player but not in a Long Con.

[Dyslexicon]

Everybody more or less assumed that. Michelle arguing it with Luna showing up as an independent (and not a mafia member) means that Michelle was theoretically cool having the lynch land on a teammate.

That didn't happen, but Michelle was open to it.

I like that. Good stuff.

Wasn't the Luna lynch pretty set though? I don't really see how this is clearing for Michelle in any case. I found assuming red check but liking Luna's posts kind of weird, but I don't know how it would make sense for any alignment. Maybe [mention]Michelle[/mention] can comment on it herself?

[Dyslexicon]

Jackofhearts2005 You've played with Owner quite a bit, haven't you?

About 3-4 times.

Oh ok, I thought maybe you had played more. I think Owner is likely town this game, and I should be able to read her (and I have the latest games). Her thoughts seems independent and a bit all over the place/considering many theories, which is something I see in her town game. For what it's worth.

[timmer]

I'm about to lay down a bit of a juliets case.

[Dyslexicon]

You asked earlier. I now have a light townread on Creature for him trying to make something happen, even if I disagree with him.

I'm aware that's a low bar.

What did he make happen? The LC wagon or something else?

[Dyslexicon]

I don't have a read that I remember on Tony this game though.

Does this say something though? Cause I do agree with Epi that Tony hasn't had any real stances in the game.

[Dyslexicon]

One more player on the list hasn’t flipped.

Do you mean Sloonmeister? Cause that's who I replaced lol

[Epignosis]

Everybody more or less assumed that. Michelle arguing it with Luna showing up as an independent (and not a mafia member) means that Michelle was theoretically cool having the lynch land on a teammate.

That didn't happen, but Michelle was open to it.

I like that. Good stuff.

Wasn't the Luna lynch pretty set though? I don't really see how this is clearing for Michelle in any case. I found assuming red check but liking Luna's posts kind of weird, but I don't know how it would make sense for any alignment. Maybe @Michelle can comment on it herself?

People are making more of this than I intended. I never said it "clears" Michelle.

I said that post looked good. Given with what I have to go on regarding Michelle, who has 31 posts, I expressed an opinion and that opinion was a positive one.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm about to lay down a bit of a juliets case.

I think juliets pretty much derped themselves town after the nutella lynch though

[Dyslexicon]

People are making more of this than I intended. I never said it "clears" Michelle.

I said that post looked good. Given with what I have to go on regarding Michelle, who has 31 posts, I expressed an opinion and that opinion was a positive one.

Fairnough, I just don't really get it, but maybe I don't need to right now

[timmer]

Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.

[Epignosis]

I'll be able to do more after I eat and after baseball starts tonight.

[Dyslexicon]

I remember not liking how Dom brushed me off when I tried to defend Rej. That's kind of the only thing I remember about Dom, other than liking the vibe early on. Not really trusting either of Tony or Jack (both pretty null).

I'd really prefer a train on Creature or Drag right now. Looking back at the D1 vote count, all of the voters on Creature are confirmed not mafia, whereas four of the voters on Rej are still in the game and unknown. If Creature flips scum it's highly likely that at least one other mafia voted Rej, maybe more.

Going back to this

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Dyslexicon]

Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.

The derp of it all! I think I want to go with it tbh

[Quin]

I'm cool with dragomir, lunalee or nutella going. Maybe creature.

Salad! I found it Creature I figured it out it’s this.

Lol gottem

Tony finding it looks good on him as well, to me.

no sir

[Quin]

Flip side thought though: one of the three almost has to be scum just on probability,

no sir

[Quin]

If I had to pick three civilians right now, it's Michelle, Owner, and juliets.

If I had to pick a fourth, it's Long Con.

Why for Michelle?

Already said why.

I disliked last DP timmer's posts and i hoped to have now more content to check it. But is not happening this.

Given that Lunalee was independent and not aligned to the mafia, this at face value looks good to me- an uninvited willingness to direct attention elsewhere.

Oh ok. I didn't like Michelle assuming red check on Luna, but then also saying she liked her posts though. What do you think about that?

Everybody more or less assumed that. Michelle arguing it with Luna showing up as an independent (and not a mafia member) means that Michelle was theoretically cool having the lynch land on a teammate.

That didn't happen, but Michelle was open to it.

I like that. Good stuff.

I don't get what you're saying here.

Objecting to a non wolf lynch that is going to happen anyway isn't something cred worthy imo.

I didn't feel like the Luna lynch was inevitable.

you were also dead so i understand how that might colour your perspective somewhat

[Dyslexicon]

Numbers are 10 town, 4 mafia and 1 SK.
I recommend we lynch scum today. Lol multiball, cause there's only been one mislynch, but still numbers aren't that great.

[Quin]

So let me get this straight.

The proposal of the Day is to lynch Long Con for saying RIP or some such thing.

Or lynch Dom who went after sig out of the gate and followed that up by going after the recruit leader.

Do I have that right?

LC case is big dumb dumb.

If Dom is bad, replace 'recruit leader' with 'somebody not on his team'.

[Quin]

Numbers are 10 town, 4 mafia and 1 SK.
I recommend we lynch scum today. Lol multiball, cause there's only been one mislynch, but still numbers aren't that great.

thank you for the recommendation

[Dragomir]

I've been apathetic this game, don't think subbing out would be fair so can someone give me a small summary of what's going on?

[Quin]

Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.

not a townslip sorry

[timmer]

The derp of it all! I think I want to go with it tbh

Actually, my thoughts still hold true, a bit.

In short, reading juliets' posts, shes been taking very light but easily changed-if-need-be stances in the game, except as soon as it seems like a lynch train is clearly going to happen, she firms up. Her thoughts on rej firmed up after things went his way, and her thoughts on Luna changed to firm as soon as day 3 went in that direction but on day 2 juliets was more hedgy because there was no clear safe target.

Also juliets has been away from keyboard in the game a few times, I could easily see a baddie chatroom where the last thing she remembered was them thinking Luna was going to be lynched and then the poll tied up after. If, in fact, the votes swung to nutella late to make the tie, I'd say that's actually pretty likely.

Juliets doesn't easily derp.

[Dyslexicon]

thank you for the recommendation

You're welcome, Quinbot. Vote Creature with me?

[timmer]

Didn't the polls used to show the order votes were placed?