Girl Genius (END)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Fun fact: Active Syndicate regulars have been getting killed off on the regular.

Not so fun fact: sabie isn't here.

Therefore: sabie isn't doing the killing.

Question for the field: Who is?

Well 5 different people are.

[Epignosis]

I changed my vote to timmer. For this Day phase to be successful, someone other than sabie needs to be lynched. sabie is the comfortable choice to mafia whether she's bad or not. Shit needs to happen.

[Long Con]

I'm the only one who wouldn't kill all the actives!

Ok, I'll try Timmster. [VOTE: timmer] aubergine

[TonyStarkPrime]

Dom: Would Dom kill active Syndicate regulars? Perhaps. I don't presently regard sig and Dom as teammates, and I don't view Dom as a nutella recruit for obvious reasons.

Dragomir: Would Dragomir kill active Syndicate regulars? In the words of Snape, "I have no idea."

Sloonlexicon: Would Sloonei kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

JackofHearts2005: Would JoH kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

juliets: Would juliets kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

Long Con: Would LC kill active Syndicate regulars? I don't think he'd make a career out of it- I believe what he said on the matter to an extent. That doesn't prove anything, of course.

Michelle: Would Michelle kill active Syndicate regulars? Maybe. I have some reasons to believe Michelle is not mafia, however.

Owner of a Lonely Heart: Would Owner kill active Syndicate regulars? Maybe. Same boat as Michelle minus reasons.

sabie12: Would sabie kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, but sabie isn't here, man.

sprityo: Would sprityo kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, but sprityo isn't here, man.

timmer: Would timmer kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, that bastard would.

TonyStarkPrime: Would TSP kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes- see Fallout (although to be fair, "active Syndicate regulars" made up most of the field). In looking at that one, I was killed Night 1 there (Night 2 here), LC was killed Night 2 there (still alive here), sprityo Night 3 there (subbed in here). I don't see much correlation unless TSP hates me.

So from what I’m hearing basically anyone.

Let’s take mine. Yeah I’d kill active regulars. I’d probably shoot LC and Jack by now cause we’ve played substantially more together and I wouldn’t have taken the exact same lines the scum have taken so far this game but I’ll shoot active players who have a history of being good. (Actually in this one as the SK I’d be putting bullets in non-participants it makes discussion run better which means scum is more likely caught which increases your odds- a message to the SK: please shoot the players who aren’t talking it saves town some work and increases your win percentage).

[TonyStarkPrime]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm the only one who wouldn't kill all the actives!

Ok, I'll try Timmster. [VOTE: timmer] aubergine

I don’t think he’d make a career out of it is a little different than no not LC

[Epignosis]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

All of the mafia kills have been active Syndicate regulars. I don't care that others were killed by other people.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

All of the mafia kills have been active Syndicate regulars. I don't care that others were killed by other people.

How can you tell which ones are mafia kills?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dom: Would Dom kill active Syndicate regulars? Perhaps. I don't presently regard sig and Dom as teammates, and I don't view Dom as a nutella recruit for obvious reasons.

Dragomir: Would Dragomir kill active Syndicate regulars? In the words of Snape, "I have no idea."

Sloonlexicon: Would Sloonei kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

JackofHearts2005: Would JoH kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

juliets: Would juliets kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

Long Con: Would LC kill active Syndicate regulars? I don't think he'd make a career out of it- I believe what he said on the matter to an extent. That doesn't prove anything, of course.

Michelle: Would Michelle kill active Syndicate regulars? Maybe. I have some reasons to believe Michelle is not mafia, however.

Owner of a Lonely Heart: Would Owner kill active Syndicate regulars? Maybe. Same boat as Michelle minus reasons.

sabie12: Would sabie kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, but sabie isn't here, man.

sprityo: Would sprityo kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, but sprityo isn't here, man.

timmer: Would timmer kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes, that bastard would.

TonyStarkPrime: Would TSP kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes- see Fallout (although to be fair, "active Syndicate regulars" made up most of the field). In looking at that one, I was killed Night 1 there (Night 2 here), LC was killed Night 2 there (still alive here), sprityo Night 3 there (subbed in here). I don't see much correlation unless TSP hates me.

Case closed.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’d lynch several people before Timmer. There have been 2 or 3 posts that feel like they come from town Timmer with a certain role. They aren’t that tough to fake but I’ve got nothing in Sprityo or Sabie or Michelle’s defense except a guy I kinda trust (Epi) saying he kinda thinks Michelle is town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Look, if sabie is a civilian, then whatever.

We have sabie six posts.

Creature "I am bored with this site I wish I was out of this game"

sprityo has a whopping four posts.

What am I to do with that?

Let’s ping them constantly.

@sprityo
@sabie12

This post is freaking gross.

He gets double called out. You know he knows two of the more active players are annoyed with him being quiet.

And he remains quiet.

[Epignosis]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

All of the mafia kills have been active Syndicate regulars. I don't care that others were killed by other people.

How can you tell which ones are mafia kills?

Did I say I could?

[Epignosis]

I’d lynch several people before Timmer. There have been 2 or 3 posts that feel like they come from town Timmer with a certain role. They aren’t that tough to fake but I’ve got nothing in Sprityo or Sabie or Michelle’s defense except a guy I kinda trust (Epi) saying he kinda thinks Michelle is town.

What are the two or three posts?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

All of the mafia kills have been active Syndicate regulars. I don't care that others were killed by other people.

How can you tell which ones are mafia kills?

Did I say I could?

Well I mean that was the implication I read by all the mafia kills have been by Syndicate regulars but I think we might be miscommunicating here

[Epignosis]

Continued: but that doesn’t really mean anything if those are the standard kill targets and there are four other people with guns. There’s no real way to analyze it in a data set like that with this sort of player base.

All of the mafia kills have been active Syndicate regulars. I don't care that others were killed by other people.

How can you tell which ones are mafia kills?

Did I say I could?

Well I mean that was the implication I read by all the mafia kills have been by Syndicate regulars but I think we might be miscommunicating here

Not your fault. I meant to say, "All of the kills have been active Syndicate regulars." Disregard the qualifier "mafia."

[Epignosis]

All I'm getting at is this: Lynching sabie most likely nabs an inactive civilian or an inactive mafioso. She isn't submitting the kills. That much you can be sure of.

[Epignosis]

TSP was on timmer and is now on sprityo.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

Who fooled Othar Trygvassen?

Poll runs till Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:07 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.
You may select 1 option

Dom
0
No votes


Voters: None

Dragomir
0
No votes


Voters: None

Dyslexicon
0
No votes


Voters: None

Epignosis
0
No votes


Voters: None

Jackofhearts2005
0
No votes


Voters: None

juliets
0
No votes


Voters: None

Long Con
0
No votes


Voters: None

Michelle
0
No votes


Voters: None

Owner of a Lonely Heart
1
8%


Voters: Long Con

sabie12
5
38%


Voters: timmer, Dom, Dyslexicon, Jackofhearts2005, juliets

Sprityo
1
8%


Voters: TonyStarkPrime

timmer
1
8%


Voters: Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
1
8%


Voters: Owner of a Lonely Heart

His sister (Host/Mod/NP/Dead)
4
31%


Voters: nutella, MacDougall, JaggedJimmyJay, Dragon D. Luffy


Total votes: 13

[TonyStarkPrime]

TSP was on timmer and is now on sprityo.

Yes I’m not sure what I’m doing on account of trying to process what Jack said.

[Epignosis]

Huh:

Creature voters: Jack, timmer, juliets, Dyslexicon, Michelle

All living people. All people I said would kill active Syndicate members (maybe Michelle).

sabie voters: Long Con, TSP, Epi, Creature (dead), Quin (dead)

[Dom]

(That indicates to me he might not be bad)

How so? Baddies always willing to dump one of their own?

bc sprit could easily pretend to be caught up if he had teammates to tell him things to say.

[Dom]

[VOTE: timmer] aubergine

[Dom]

Huh:

Creature voters: Jack, timmer, juliets, Dyslexicon, Michelle

All living people. All people I said would kill active Syndicate members (maybe Michelle).

sabie voters: Long Con, TSP, Epi, Creature (dead), Quin (dead)

CAn you spell this out for me?

[Epignosis]

Huh:

Creature voters: Jack, timmer, juliets, Dyslexicon, Michelle

All living people. All people I said would kill active Syndicate members (maybe Michelle).

sabie voters: Long Con, TSP, Epi, Creature (dead), Quin (dead)

CAn you spell this out for me?

There are no conclusions here. I was comparing the previous vote to the other thing I wrote.

[Epignosis]

Today was unexpectedly taxing and I'm going to be at the dentist office all afternoon. My advice is to lynch someone other than sabie. I realize that sounds bassackwards, but the fact is there's multiple mafia members skating by. Catch a live one. I'll be back tomorrow evening.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Huh:

Creature voters: Jack, timmer, juliets, Dyslexicon, Michelle

All living people. All people I said would kill active Syndicate members (maybe Michelle).

sabie voters: Long Con, TSP, Epi, Creature (dead), Quin (dead)

CAn you spell this out for me?

There are no conclusions here. I was comparing the previous vote to the other thing I wrote.

Another crazy note: every single person who had voted for sabie is now not voting for sabie. Every person who had voted for Creature is now voting for sabie.

[Michelle]

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

@Michelle

What do you have to say for yourself? Why did you sheep me on Creature yesterday?

Guilty of sheeping ^^ i have to confess
@Jackofhearts2005
My first impression on you came pretty early in the game
Post #567 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 26#p548926
you defended Rej - i considered it townish.

p#775 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p549212
you agreed with a team of Luna/Creature/Michelle. I know my PM and i knew is wrong as team but i also saw it in a towny way from Jack. I took just these 2 posts but your general tone was relaxed and not aggresive or shading someone in a wolfish way.

My problem until now was me heavily multitabling, playing 5 games and hosting one was too much for me so for the previous day i didn't have the possibility to keep the track of things and i took my townread on you and voted like you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If LC gets lynched today imma be mad.

@Dragomir

Change your vote.

Why?

Cause the case on LC is primo garbo.

And Creature is falling off like he does as scum.

This post was convincing because i can never read Creature and it looked like you were certain about this read. (thinking at Creature being the same with the MU account with same username, but even if it's not, for me is an unknown player, so hard to read as well)

Sabie looks bad but not as bad as Creature.

Honestly, Tony’s bucket thing looks pretty bad. Seems like the kinda thing I’d come up with to justify stupid reads.

“I arbitrarily guessed there are +1 scum in this arbitrary bucket. Therefore *bad vote*”

Here again you looked convinced about Creature looking bad.

Why would Michelle sheep me? I’ve misread her in every game we’ve played together where I was town and I think my faction is like 0 and 4 in games we’ve player together.

I wouldn’t sheep someone with that track record.

I know no one in this game very well, i have an idea about your meta and, in that game you are talking about, i actually read all your posts. Was not like "yay i'm scum i will be lazy all game" but "oops i'm scum and a team to work with"and i was active all the game.
An additional thing i learned in that game was a pretty good view over your town game so i was confident about reading you.
Was i wrong?

[Michelle]

I’d lynch several people before Timmer. There have been 2 or 3 posts that feel like they come from town Timmer with a certain role. They aren’t that tough to fake but I’ve got nothing in Sprityo or Sabie or Michelle’s defense except a guy I kinda trust (Epi) saying he kinda thinks Michelle is town.

Can you quote the timmer's posts who felt townish?

[juliets]

I read back on Owner and her biggest suspicion of Tony is that he called her slight town after she expressed an opinion that players who make excuses or complain turn out to be scum (she indicates her opinion that he had done that).

He says her case is contrived but he leans slight town on her because she is willing to place a vote on a ping when he thinks there is more damning evidence against him. (@TonyStarkPrime what were you talking about when you said that?)

I don't see this as a strong reason to vote for him. Owner felt like he might be buddying her and I guess for her it is a strong enough reason, coupled with her opinion of his behavior today. I don't think she is trying to set him up, but I'm not seeing a strong enough case even with his awkwardness today to move me to vote him at this time.

I don’t remember that was day 1. I just remember feeling that she had chosen something dumb and if scum wanted to set me up they could apparently just ask me the same stupid questions over and over again and pretend that I was saying something different.

Tony thanks for your response but I just need to clarify something. Did you feel at the time scum was asking you the "same stupid questions over and over again and pretending you were saying something different?" I don't remember that. If you can point me to a post that would be great as I'm not sure I'll have time to search for it in your ISO today.

[juliets]

(That indicates to me he might not be bad)

How so? Baddies always willing to dump one of their own?

bc sprit could easily pretend to be caught up if he had teammates to tell him things to say.

Good point.

[juliets]

All I'm getting at is this: Lynching sabie most likely nabs an inactive civilian or an inactive mafioso. She isn't submitting the kills. That much you can be sure of.

Hmmm. This makes a lot of sense. I'll consider other possibilities today.

[juliets]

Can someone help me with the case on timmer? I read through him and my response was basically "meh". I'll read through him again this afternoon when I get home from work and look at the ISO's of those who voted for him but it would be helpful if I understood what your deciding factors were.

I am off to work now and will be back somewhere around 4:00 at the latest. That should be plenty of time to determine where I want to continue with my vote for sable or change directions.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I read back on Owner and her biggest suspicion of Tony is that he called her slight town after she expressed an opinion that players who make excuses or complain turn out to be scum (she indicates her opinion that he had done that).

He says her case is contrived but he leans slight town on her because she is willing to place a vote on a ping when he thinks there is more damning evidence against him. (@TonyStarkPrime what were you talking about when you said that?)

I don't see this as a strong reason to vote for him. Owner felt like he might be buddying her and I guess for her it is a strong enough reason, coupled with her opinion of his behavior today. I don't think she is trying to set him up, but I'm not seeing a strong enough case even with his awkwardness today to move me to vote him at this time.

I don’t remember that was day 1. I just remember feeling that she had chosen something dumb and if scum wanted to set me up they could apparently just ask me the same stupid questions over and over again and pretend that I was saying something different.

Tony thanks for your response but I just need to clarify something. Did you feel at the time scum was asking you the "same stupid questions over and over again and pretending you were saying something different?" I don't remember that. If you can point me to a post that would be great as I'm not sure I'll have time to search for it in your ISO today.

Spoiler: show

I don't really follow the Dom/Tony argument really well. Tony says he is suspicious of Dom because meta? What are other people's read on Dom?

No I thought that Dom wasn’t aggressive enough and that some of his posts looked scummy. And maybe meta but that went south. Apparently everyone else thinks he’s town.

What led you to make a case based on how someone plays usually when you claim you don't know the player well?

Probably because I thought you were scummy and the meta idea behind that was an afterthought.

"I thought you were scummy"

Yeah we've yet to really get at the why there.
And therein lies the problem.

Do you want me to try and build a case again? Do it right the second time? Throw more strikes? I pointed out the posts I didn’t like, you can say that’s a weak case but they are also why I thought you were scummy. I can try again if you want.

Spoiler: show

Why?

Why did I give up a bit? I thought there existed a meta case and I read some of your previous games and it seemed par for the course. At which point I’m basing my entire meta case on a game currently in process.

Sounds like you never had a case in the first place.

Which games did you read?

One with Ancient Greece, one weird one that I couldn’t really track that seemed to take place in several different threads, a few where you posted once or twice a day and then died.

You chose a game where I died on Night 3, a game that was hard to follow, and a game I didn't quite play to base your entire case against me that you pushed hard while I wasn't here?
Do I have that right?

Well I read the games after making the case and you didn’t have many recent ones to choose from. The case I pushed while you were here was not in any way based on those games.

If I wanted to I’m sure I could have found some great examples of what I was looking for but it would have been a little disingenuous.

This exchange has my head spinning. Am I correct that the synopsis of this is that tony made a case based on Dom game meta, but then later admitted that he found the games he cited... after making the case?

that was a reference to todayish where some people whose intentions I am not sure of asked me a lot of the same things with the same underlying assumptions.

What do you think about the fact that apparently the entire creature wagon has migrated to Sabie?

[Dyslexicon]

I'll be really busy this whole weekend starting from tonight, so I won't be around much unfortunately. Don't even know if there is stable wifi where I'm going =/

I'll try to catch up quickly now

[Dyslexicon]

I don't really think Dom is very scummy, but I also don't know Dom ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dom is not likely with sig the mafia.

Judging by this post:

Doms in the game so let's lynch hom first for reasons

It could have been just a joke, but saying that day 0 is hella risky if teamed as you don't know if someone will latch onto that and be gunho to make that the lynch for the day.

So in association with sig flipping mafia, I think Dom is town. (or at least not likely mafia)

I disagree that this look anti-alignment, but Dom might be town anyway. /shrugface

[Dyslexicon]

(That indicates to me he might not be bad)

How so? Baddies always willing to dump one of their own?

bc sprit could easily pretend to be caught up if he had teammates to tell him things to say.

I've never seen scum pretend to be caught up without having actually read the thread. That seems ...weird. Why did you not use this logic for Sabie though? Didn't you vote Sabie last day?

[Dyslexicon]

I don't know who to vote for. I'm going to stick with Sabie for now. Still could go any of Sabie or Sprit. If scum is inactive that is just way too annoying to lose to. Almost tempted to follow Owner on Tony though. Noticed possible connections of Tony/Timmer and also Dom/Sprit, should one or the other flip scum.

Hopefully will have the chance to check in later as well

[timmer]

I'm definitely leaving my vote on sabie, but I'll say that epig's push towards me feels pretty bad.

We do NOT need to leave an inactive sable aside for today. Because she ISN'T inactive, in fact she is deliberately doing the bare minimum needed to survive in the game without having her powers modblocked.

I would NOT normally kill off longtime syndicate players, Epig should remember that I tend to want to lynch inactives and players I don't know, because I generally trust that I can get the long-timers whose games I know well lynched.

But the key here is that he keeps referring to sabie as inactive, when she very definitely is NOT, and he knows this and is ignoring it.

And at this point, with a sabie lynch looking like it would happen, to see this sudden idea of "no, we have to lynch other than sabie, uhm,... that guy" it tells me that a successful sabie lynch would tell us a LOT about who the bad guys are in this game.

Now, I'm at work today and will try to post, but then I have a ladyfriend staying over for the weekend, so i'll be a bit absent.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

@Michelle

What do you have to say for yourself? Why did you sheep me on Creature yesterday?

Guilty of sheeping ^^ i have to confess
@Jackofhearts2005
My first impression on you came pretty early in the game
Post #567 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 26#p548926
you defended Rej - i considered it townish.

p#775 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p549212
you agreed with a team of Luna/Creature/Michelle. I know my PM and i knew is wrong as team but i also saw it in a towny way from Jack. I took just these 2 posts but your general tone was relaxed and not aggresive or shading someone in a wolfish way.

My problem until now was me heavily multitabling, playing 5 games and hosting one was too much for me so for the previous day i didn't have the possibility to keep the track of things and i took my townread on you and voted like you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If LC gets lynched today imma be mad.

@Dragomir

Change your vote.

Why?

Cause the case on LC is primo garbo.

And Creature is falling off like he does as scum.

This post was convincing because i can never read Creature and it looked like you were certain about this read. (thinking at Creature being the same with the MU account with same username, but even if it's not, for me is an unknown player, so hard to read as well)

Sabie looks bad but not as bad as Creature.

Honestly, Tony’s bucket thing looks pretty bad. Seems like the kinda thing I’d come up with to justify stupid reads.

“I arbitrarily guessed there are +1 scum in this arbitrary bucket. Therefore *bad vote*”

Here again you looked convinced about Creature looking bad.

Why would Michelle sheep me? I’ve misread her in every game we’ve played together where I was town and I think my faction is like 0 and 4 in games we’ve player together.

I wouldn’t sheep someone with that track record.

I know no one in this game very well, i have an idea about your meta and, in that game you are talking about, i actually read all your posts. Was not like "yay i'm scum i will be lazy all game" but "oops i'm scum and a team to work with"and i was active all the game.
An additional thing i learned in that game was a pretty good view over your town game so i was confident about reading you.
Was i wrong?

The issue is not “why do you think I’m town” cause I’m obviously town.

The issue is “why do you trust that my reads are correct?”

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't know who to vote for. I'm going to stick with Sabie for now. Still could go any of Sabie or Sprit. If scum is inactive that is just way too annoying to lose to. Almost tempted to follow Owner on Tony though. Noticed possible connections of Tony/Timmer and also Dom/Sprit, should one or the other flip scum.

Hopefully will have the chance to check in later as well

To Epi’s point, there is at least one active scum member but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a couple inactive ones.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm definitely leaving my vote on sabie, but I'll say that epig's push towards me feels pretty bad.

We do NOT need to leave an inactive sable aside for today. Because she ISN'T inactive, in fact she is deliberately doing the bare minimum needed to survive in the game without having her powers modblocked.

I would NOT normally kill off longtime syndicate players, Epig should remember that I tend to want to lynch inactives and players I don't know, because I generally trust that I can get the long-timers whose games I know well lynched.

But the key here is that he keeps referring to sabie as inactive, when she very definitely is NOT, and he knows this and is ignoring it.

And at this point, with a sabie lynch looking like it would happen, to see this sudden idea of "no, we have to lynch other than sabie, uhm,... that guy" it tells me that a successful sabie lynch would tell us a LOT about who the bad guys are in this game.

Now, I'm at work today and will try to post, but then I have a ladyfriend staying over for the weekend, so i'll be a bit absent.

Epi’s alignment partially rides on a Sabie flip.

I’ve seen two patterns.

1) The poe is garbo. A townie challenges some assumptions to try to do better.

2) It is close to a wolf win. Scum try to push a different lynch train to save a wolf.

Even if Sabie flips wolf, I kinda lean towards Epi being town tho. Not a strong lean but a lean nonetheless.

[timmer]

My concern with sabie is if she is Baron. If she did have a night where she didn't submit a power, her vote total would have been lowered by 2, so anyone voting for her in yesterday's lynch could have been a baddie teammate, knowing that a tie wasn't really a tie. But potentially now she did use a power, etc. because there is suddenly an air of "don't lynch sabie" that was absent yesterday.

[Long Con]

My concern with sabie is if she is Baron. If she did have a night where she didn't submit a power, her vote total would have been lowered by 2, so anyone voting for her in yesterday's lynch could have been a baddie teammate, knowing that a tie wasn't really a tie. But potentially now she did use a power, etc. because there is suddenly an air of "don't lynch sabie" that was absent yesterday.

I am actually going to go back to sabie. I thought your Epig post was town-believable. [VOTE: sabie] aubergine

Also agree that Tony's observation following Epi's (about the votes) was both interesting and weird.

[Long Con]

I'm the only one who wouldn't kill all the actives!

Ok, I'll try Timmster. [VOTE: timmer] aubergine

I don’t think he’d make a career out of it is a little different than no not LC

Conservative speech from Epi. You would need to convince him, probably with evidence form past games, or something, that I target the most actives, because what he believes is the truth.

[TonyStarkPrime]

My concern with sabie is if she is Baron. If she did have a night where she didn't submit a power, her vote total would have been lowered by 2, so anyone voting for her in yesterday's lynch could have been a baddie teammate, knowing that a tie wasn't really a tie. But potentially now she did use a power, etc. because there is suddenly an air of "don't lynch sabie" that was absent yesterday.

I am actually going to go back to sabie. I thought your Epig post was town-believable. [VOTE: sabie] aubergine

Also agree that Tony's observation following Epi's (about the votes) was both interesting and weird.

It’s insane I’m marking it for post game analysis while I sit around and try to figure out how the heck it makes sense

[juliets]

I read back on Owner and her biggest suspicion of Tony is that he called her slight town after she expressed an opinion that players who make excuses or complain turn out to be scum (she indicates her opinion that he had done that).

He says her case is contrived but he leans slight town on her because she is willing to place a vote on a ping when he thinks there is more damning evidence against him. (@TonyStarkPrime what were you talking about when you said that?)

I don't see this as a strong reason to vote for him. Owner felt like he might be buddying her and I guess for her it is a strong enough reason, coupled with her opinion of his behavior today. I don't think she is trying to set him up, but I'm not seeing a strong enough case even with his awkwardness today to move me to vote him at this time.

I don’t remember that was day 1. I just remember feeling that she had chosen something dumb and if scum wanted to set me up they could apparently just ask me the same stupid questions over and over again and pretend that I was saying something different.

Tony thanks for your response but I just need to clarify something. Did you feel at the time scum was asking you the "same stupid questions over and over again and pretending you were saying something different?" I don't remember that. If you can point me to a post that would be great as I'm not sure I'll have time to search for it in your ISO today.

Spoiler: show

I don't really follow the Dom/Tony argument really well. Tony says he is suspicious of Dom because meta? What are other people's read on Dom?

No I thought that Dom wasn’t aggressive enough and that some of his posts looked scummy. And maybe meta but that went south. Apparently everyone else thinks he’s town.

What led you to make a case based on how someone plays usually when you claim you don't know the player well?

Probably because I thought you were scummy and the meta idea behind that was an afterthought.

"I thought you were scummy"

Yeah we've yet to really get at the why there.
And therein lies the problem.

Do you want me to try and build a case again? Do it right the second time? Throw more strikes? I pointed out the posts I didn’t like, you can say that’s a weak case but they are also why I thought you were scummy. I can try again if you want.

Spoiler: show

Why did I give up a bit? I thought there existed a meta case and I read some of your previous games and it seemed par for the course. At which point I’m basing my entire meta case on a game currently in process.

Sounds like you never had a case in the first place.

Which games did you read?

One with Ancient Greece, one weird one that I couldn’t really track that seemed to take place in several different threads, a few where you posted once or twice a day and then died.

You chose a game where I died on Night 3, a game that was hard to follow, and a game I didn't quite play to base your entire case against me that you pushed hard while I wasn't here?
Do I have that right?

Well I read the games after making the case and you didn’t have many recent ones to choose from. The case I pushed while you were here was not in any way based on those games.

If I wanted to I’m sure I could have found some great examples of what I was looking for but it would have been a little disingenuous.

This exchange has my head spinning. Am I correct that the synopsis of this is that tony made a case based on Dom game meta, but then later admitted that he found the games he cited... after making the case?

that was a reference to todayish where some people whose intentions I am not sure of asked me a lot of the same things with the same underlying assumptions.

What do you think about the fact that apparently the entire creature wagon has migrated to Sabie?

Yes, I understood how you might make that comment today (or yesterday) I just didn't understand it coming from Day 1. But I can understand your having forgotten what you meant - I can barely remember yesterday.

I don't know what to make of everyone who voted for Creature now voting for sable. I can only speak for myself and say I feel like I made a mistake moving back to Creature after changing to sabie. What do you make of it?

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

@Michelle

What do you have to say for yourself? Why did you sheep me on Creature yesterday?

Guilty of sheeping ^^ i have to confess
@Jackofhearts2005
My first impression on you came pretty early in the game
Post #567 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 26#p548926
you defended Rej - i considered it townish.

p#775 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p549212
you agreed with a team of Luna/Creature/Michelle. I know my PM and i knew is wrong as team but i also saw it in a towny way from Jack. I took just these 2 posts but your general tone was relaxed and not aggresive or shading someone in a wolfish way.

My problem until now was me heavily multitabling, playing 5 games and hosting one was too much for me so for the previous day i didn't have the possibility to keep the track of things and i took my townread on you and voted like you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If LC gets lynched today imma be mad.

@Dragomir

Change your vote.

Why?

Cause the case on LC is primo garbo.

And Creature is falling off like he does as scum.

This post was convincing because i can never read Creature and it looked like you were certain about this read. (thinking at Creature being the same with the MU account with same username, but even if it's not, for me is an unknown player, so hard to read as well)

Sabie looks bad but not as bad as Creature.

Honestly, Tony’s bucket thing looks pretty bad. Seems like the kinda thing I’d come up with to justify stupid reads.

“I arbitrarily guessed there are +1 scum in this arbitrary bucket. Therefore *bad vote*”

Here again you looked convinced about Creature looking bad.

Why would Michelle sheep me? I’ve misread her in every game we’ve played together where I was town and I think my faction is like 0 and 4 in games we’ve player together.

I wouldn’t sheep someone with that track record.

I know no one in this game very well, i have an idea about your meta and, in that game you are talking about, i actually read all your posts. Was not like "yay i'm scum i will be lazy all game" but "oops i'm scum and a team to work with"and i was active all the game.
An additional thing i learned in that game was a pretty good view over your town game so i was confident about reading you.
Was i wrong?

The issue is not “why do you think I’m town” cause I’m obviously town.

The issue is “why do you trust that my reads are correct?”

Because you posted very confident. I should make some reads myself, i know this.

I have to catch up now, no sheep this time.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@Jules yeah I have no idea all I can tell is that I didn’t feel like Owner was trying to set me up.

I have no idea what to make of it it’s crazy. I guess in theory it works if Sabie was scum but scum didn’t want to bus yesterday and see no other option today which I actually think would shape our scum team pretty effectively.

[juliets]

juliets: Would juliets kill active Syndicate regulars? Yes.

Epi, I don't know what makes you think this. Maybe you can explain.

Though I'd rather you explain why you're voting for timmer first.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

@Michelle

What do you have to say for yourself? Why did you sheep me on Creature yesterday?

Guilty of sheeping ^^ i have to confess
@Jackofhearts2005
My first impression on you came pretty early in the game
Post #567 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 26#p548926
you defended Rej - i considered it townish.

p#775 http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p549212
you agreed with a team of Luna/Creature/Michelle. I know my PM and i knew is wrong as team but i also saw it in a towny way from Jack. I took just these 2 posts but your general tone was relaxed and not aggresive or shading someone in a wolfish way.

My problem until now was me heavily multitabling, playing 5 games and hosting one was too much for me so for the previous day i didn't have the possibility to keep the track of things and i took my townread on you and voted like you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If LC gets lynched today imma be mad.

@Dragomir

Change your vote.

Why?

Cause the case on LC is primo garbo.

And Creature is falling off like he does as scum.

This post was convincing because i can never read Creature and it looked like you were certain about this read. (thinking at Creature being the same with the MU account with same username, but even if it's not, for me is an unknown player, so hard to read as well)

Sabie looks bad but not as bad as Creature.

Honestly, Tony’s bucket thing looks pretty bad. Seems like the kinda thing I’d come up with to justify stupid reads.

“I arbitrarily guessed there are +1 scum in this arbitrary bucket. Therefore *bad vote*”

Here again you looked convinced about Creature looking bad.

Why would Michelle sheep me? I’ve misread her in every game we’ve played together where I was town and I think my faction is like 0 and 4 in games we’ve player together.

I wouldn’t sheep someone with that track record.

I know no one in this game very well, i have an idea about your meta and, in that game you are talking about, i actually read all your posts. Was not like "yay i'm scum i will be lazy all game" but "oops i'm scum and a team to work with"and i was active all the game.
An additional thing i learned in that game was a pretty good view over your town game so i was confident about reading you.
Was i wrong?

The issue is not “why do you think I’m town” cause I’m obviously town.

The issue is “why do you trust that my reads are correct?”

Because you posted very confident. I should make some reads myself, i know this.

I have to catch up now, no sheep this time.

How would you rate my confidence level of your alignment in Mountainous? Or Anni 2019?