Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella made a point about Dragomir being in good shape by way of the Day 2 voting. The raw end poll corroborates that: Dragomir had 3 votes, and was the largest counter to the sprityo lynch. So speedchuck had an out if he wanted to keep Dragomir alive. I think this needs to be qualified with the timing of votes, so hopefully people called them.

nutella's post for reference. She brought this up first, to her credit. I went through and compiled all of the votes I could find that were either called outright, or that I could estimate based upon context clues and my own memory of events. I may not be entirely correct about the vote counts per player.

Oct 16
4:46pm - JJJ V Fayt (1)
~~ 10:06pm - Epi V JJJ (1)
10:38pm - nova V JJJ (2)
11:14pm - Dom V Dragomir (1)
11:15pm - JJJ V Dom (1)

Oct 17
~~ 12:05am - Epi V Dragomir (2)
12:38am - JJJ V sprityo (1)
~~12:54am? - Mac V JJJ (2)
2:07am - Mac V nutella (1)
2:21am - nutella V Dom (1)
2:39am - LC V JJJ (2)
2:46am - nutella V JJJ (3)
9:18am - Michelle V JJJ (4)
9:19am - Michelle V LC (1)
11:54am - Fayt V LC (2)
12:02pm - speedchuck V nutella (2)
~~12:34pm - sprityo V Dragomir (3)
12:49pm - nutella V sprityo (2)
2:18pm - nova V sprityo (3)
---> 4:03pm speedchuck's last post of the day
4:04pm - Fayt V sprityo (4)

Please don't confuse the colors with indicators of alignment. I am just color-coding the three wagons that seem most important here: the one on Dragomir (the point of this post is to assess him), nutella (where speedchuck voted), and sprityo (the eventual lynch). I colored speedchuck's vote red to emphasize it; Mac's is orange to complete the wagon of two.

If my numbers are correct, when speedchuck made his last post of the day, this was the tally:

Dragomir - 3
sprityo - 3
nutella - 2 (with speedchuck)

So, if speedchuck specifically wanted to keep Dragomir around, the option to vote sprityo was there for him for a while. Fayt ended up doing it soon after anyway. Instead speedchuck stayed on nutella and just let it go -- perhaps an indicator that he knew his team was okay regardless of whether Dragomir or sprityo ended up dead. That would be good for Dragomir.

[mention]nutella[/mention], whenever you're awake, can you please indicate if you had something like this in mind, or if your reasoning is something else.

If Dragomir can be exonerated, the game is further constricted to the point of inevitable solution. It's a very important slot to solve.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Now I will finally sleep. I will be making a drive tomorrow afternoon which may interfere with my time here. We'll see what happens. I should be around at least some before I leave though.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall I promise it's not me. Should we just go ahead and lynch Jay?

Nah we should just lynch who he says to lynch until it's glaringly obvious he's a cat.

like we have to play for the sake of playing.and enjoy mislynching townie me for eg

You don't have to play along...

[MacDougall]

I'm going to bed. @MacDougall tell me I'm right.

I love it when you give me attention.

Ummm I think you are.

[MacDougall]

I think Jay has been intensely scummy more or lesd this entire game. Has been caught lying several times. Has lost two teammates and is now just seeing how much he can bullshit and get away with. He put more effort into finding a way to make a huge case civ clearing himself than any single case against Mafia. Compare the effort he's gone to to make himself look civ with the effort behind the Sprityo mislynch. Jay gives zero fucks about being townread usually.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t care about the rest of that, because one part of it annoys the shit out of me.

I have lied about one thing in this game: that meta reads are good enough to make a guy with no content a civilian.

So you can take your “caught lying” shite and piss right off.

Also you’d know how much effort I’ve given to hunting if you’d bother to read my shit. This is your MO lately Mac and I hope you fix it. In Persona 5 I literally solved the game, and you hounded me for not solving enough (you didn’t read my stuff).

[MacDougall]

Yawn

[MacDougall]

Jay: I'd never kill TH.
Also Jay: Iron Man Experiment. A million interaction analysis. Good old fashioned Sprityo lynch.

[MacDougall]

Jay has more wim than anyone. He outed when he tried to make out he'd not kill TH. Never look back. Self vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay has more wim than anyone. He outed when he tried to make out he'd not kill TH. Never look back. Self vote.

I might. We’re nearing that point where my survival is detrimental.

I think the cat is just Fayt, so I’m at peace. Dogs don’t listen. That’s a big reason why this Mafia game thing we play even works.

Y’all need four player POEs. I see three viable candidates: Fayt, Dragomir, Michelle. I lean strongly toward Fayt. If I’m the fourth name then whatever. The game should be in hand if you people don’t go into nutty mode if/when I’m dead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay: I'd never kill TH.
Also Jay: Iron Man Experiment. A million interaction analysis. Good old fashioned Sprityo lynch.

I don’t regret that lynch. He’d still be in the POE today. It’s a process. Y’all can’t hang.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And no, I’d never kill TH on Night 1 of this game. I know that’s true and I find solace in that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At least if that contributes to my mislynch it gives speedchuck some compensation for the perceived angleshooting. That’ll be an interesting post-game conversation. I can see the argument, but I’m not sure it isn’t just meta.

[Dragomir]

Additional concerns with Fayt

One longstanding trend I have observed in these games is that when I fall under heavy suspicion for whatever reason, the mafia team is much more likely to defend me. It is the most basic example of TMI, and it's easy to understand why they do this. Given the extreme effort that I am almost guaranteed to give in any game, my mislynch is by default a considerable civilian loss. This isn't some boastful shit about me being good or whatever, so please block that irritation from your mind if it's there and consider what I am saying. Even if I am total garbage, I still give a huge effort -- that's important.

If I get lynched wrongly, the people who were responsible for that are going to have a lot to answer for. Any mafia team knows that shit. It's obvious. So they often stay the hell away from it. Let me show you just a few examples that come to mind immediately from previous games:

Easter Mafia

Spoiler: show

If I have to I will probably vote for whoever I can to stop JJJ from getting lynched because I like his contributions and if he's town it would be a mclargehuge mistake.

Huge positive-outlook ISO by ColinIsCool

That jjj got 3 votes so easily in the first half of day 1 and still is the leading Potential Rabbit (tm) leads me to believe that it’s too easy.

Especially nova’s vote.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Quin and jjj just got into a semantics despute. Nova’s vote is a thumb getting caught in a drawer

Someone else get on Floyd please. JJJ should not be lynched day 1

Wolbre and Jay teammates

Agreed. Marmot's teammates identified.

I can’t get this quote from marmot’s entrance out of my head. I strongly feel like jjj is town this game, so I don’t think Marmot called out his scummates here. But I currently suspect wolbre and wouldn’t be surprised if Marmot threw in one of his teammates in this too. Marmot votes choutas end of day, wolbre voted early before vhoutas even had votes. Coming in from different angles to form an isosceles triangle. I can see it

What a fucking end of day to miss! Good job boyos and thank god you were all right. JJJ coming in hot with that catch at the end.

There is no way in hell that JJJ is bad after that EoD. Surprisingly, Dys looked the worst after I left and in hindsight, next to Quin. I’ll take a detailed look at Colin interactions tomorrow. Everything he’s said in the past day is complete WIFOM and shouldn’t be taken at face value, or even below the belt value, but before he was the main lynch candidate should be entirely enlightening.

So I guess what I’m saying is: let’s lynch marmot tomorrow k

In this game, both ColinIsCool and Scotty were mafia. I was a civilian and drawing heavy suspicion. They white knighted me. There are numerous more examples of this in that game; I only shared a subset.

Fire Emblem

Spoiler: show

The thing I have against Jay is that he reminds me of Mountain Jay, and not in regards to activity. There is something about Jay that is "unpleasant", if I have to describe it.

Like Jay is usually this gentleman that is so easy to deal with. I remember my first game in this site where I would accuse him and people he was civ reading, for silly reasons, and he would use his time to argue with me and listen to my points and constantly reanalyse his own suspicions.

Here, he is more sttuborn. Though I haven't argued with him myself, you can see from the way he is arguing with Epi and White and others that he is not confortable in his arguing. He is resistant to disagreement, and unwilling to let go of his suspicions. The fact he is going after low hanging fruits isn't something I'm very concerned with, but the fact he is so adamant at it when such cases are very weak in nature does. He is setting for easy solutions, and a good scumhunter doesn't accept easy solutions, even if they are willing to go with them from time to time. Like, it's one thing to vote for lapluie and Dr. White, it's another to voice vehement disagreement when people suggest him to abandon them for more juicy cases.

I'm treading dangerous ground here because I've notice Jay is really fatigued in this game, and this is generally non-alignment indicative. He made a post suggesting he shouldn't signed up or been so active, and I support him for that. But I'm trying to figure out if there is an alignment influence in that. Maybe civ Jay would feel less pressure and would be less sttubborn, even if he was pressured for time or mafia fatigued.

So Jay I'm really sorry if you are a civ and I'm being unfair to you, but I need to hunt.

I at the very least disagree with the last sentence, knowing Jay I think he certainly feels a lot of pressure as a civ particularly to perform his supertown persona. Not that he doesn't definitely also feel pressure when bad but I think he handles it differently. I see your trepidation though in that I can't really tell what his scumhunting strategy has been so it may be a façade.

...see then he goes and makes a completely believable jaypost like that. maybe I'm a sucker for his analytical methods and maybe I'm falling for his deceit but he just... makes sense.

also I don't think I agree with you DDL about the Mountains comparison, he's different here

That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote, which you have been called out for by others. Saying the interaction between you two is "interesting" is very clear. It was very sus that you would so strongly town read someone THAT EARLY in D1, simply because he gave his own reads that weren't apart of the major town babble. You keep conflating this as if bob had 100 post in Day 1, and 36 hours had passed or something. It was extremely early and on questionable grounds that you gave him such a strong read.

This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!".

The fact that you've latched on to me so strongly from this, keep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote, and now are trying to push this narrative that I'm ducking you, is very, very suspect, and I honestly don't believe you are this daft.

What is this and why should I give a shit?

No it fucking isn't.

Horseshit. colonialbob made posts and I made a read. You know what you did in response? Made a read. You made a read that you are presently calling "very sus". That's strong language. How can you have such a strong read so early?

I "keep trying to use it as a means" so hard that I said it one time. Fake.

We could be scumbuddies. I could be buddying a civilian for credit. I can't be town myself. Garbage.

There is nothing blatant about the meaning of "interesting" in a "read" being made in a Mafia game.

You're freaking the fuck out and spewing trash. Die.

This gave me flashbacks to when 3J and I went head to head in Red vs Blue...both times. This ass is town.

I'm wary of Epi. I don't like this argument for scum 3J.

JJJ's pets so far:

Quin
Iron Dwarf
Dr. White
lapluie

Somebody tell me he isn't going for easy, early lynches.

I would agree at least that Iron_Dwarf and lapluie are "easy". I don't care. Easy and civilian aren't synonymous. Sometimes mafia members are easy to lynch.

Your reasons for all of them are lazy though. Quin not engaging anyone "substantively?" lapluie not "hitting the ground running here like she did in MK?"

Lazy work. I do not believe you are a civilian, sir.

1. Both of these arguments are worth making. In my case it's incorrect, but if I'm not engaging anyone substantively, that's a decent contrast to how I usually try to be as a player. lapluie is the same. She had 553 posts in MK despite it being her first game. She was in the top half of posters in Buffy. She's barely pushing 30 here. If you're not going to immediately call it suspicious, you absolutely have to look at it as substantial.

2. 3J said this. Lazy cases do not guarantee a civilian lynch.

Epignosis, what makes the cases 3J has put forward lazy, and why does that make him bad? Do you believe that he is avoiding progressive (as opposed to lazy) reads?

Quin and nutella were both mafia. Defended me, softly or overtly.

Persona 5

Spoiler: show

Ok, so I narrowed it down to Jack and TSP. Never did the isos. Honestly just too lazy. I'm not entirely sure on those 2 but I feel confident in my reads.

I want to talk about Jay for a second. Like Mac pointed out, he has gone after several different ppl and has never really stuck to them for long(he's sticking to Epi now tho, I guess). The lack of coordination in his play is off-putting for me. Add his iso on Mac which I honestly think was garbage. Nearly half of it was him saying k or I guess. I'm like wtf? What in Jesus name is the point of those one-word replies?

Combine with that iso, and his overall playstyle appears as tryhard to me. Trying so hard to contribute and appear productivity. I don't like it.

Reading this makes me come to the conclusion that JJJ is probably town

I don't think this is a particularly logical option I'm probably going to take it back next time I look at the thread.
Could JJJ be teamed with:

Creature? Sure but Creature is town
Drago? No
Epi? Seems actually likely
Jack? No
LongCon? Sure
Mac? that'd be insane but not completely unexpected
Nutella? No
Rej? probably not
Sprityo? Sure but Sprityo is town

The problem here is that JJJ cannot be a teammate of any of my top scum reads.

Creature- No clear opinion.

Dragomir- I stand by my take. Came out throwing like Drew Brees.

Jack- I'm not rereading your 77 posts. Feeling is positive though.

JJJ- Unless he goofs, I don't lynch him Day 1. He hasn't goofed (been a donkey, maybe, but not goofed). I'd have to be convinced to vote there, and I don't see that happening.

Long Con- Got lost in concessions.

MacDougall- I look for a confident "Epi-JJJ-LC is scum got em" post early on. True to fashion, he made one. This time he included the fucking host. I noted it, but left it alone to see what other people would say about it. "Oh golly gee Mac is so town for that." Not in my stadium. Smells like a Minnesota Viking fan's fart. Would lynch.

nutella- I can't have a confident opinion of her or it's a red flag.

Rej- Will have to revisit.

sprityo- Will have to revisit.

TonyStarkPrime- Will have to revisit.

Mac = Good.
JJJ = Good.
Dragomir = Good.

I'm going to enter Day 2 (assuming I do) with that.

JJJ, you are a civilian because you are like me when you are bad. You value efficiency. I don't believe you punched Tony's Greyhound ticket Day 1 like that if you are aligned with him.

TSP and Epignosis were mafia. They stood in my corner.

~~~

Now I want to clarify something before I proceed so that there cannot be any bullshit misconstruals of my point. This does not imply that the players I have cited here called me a civilian in every single post. What is most important though is that when push came to shove and I was taking a bunch of heat -- they stood in my corner. This happens a lot.

So why do I care? Let's move foward to:

~~~

Dogs vs. Cats

Spoiler: show

speedchuck, why Rej?

Because not Dragomir. Dragomir's current play feels scummy, but doesn't make much sense as scumplay on further reflection.

I buy Dragomir's response to pressure better than Rej's. Rej has been on edge since the first time he was prodded.

@Rej what is your absolute favorite thing ever about sprityo in this here game thread?

Gimme a break I cant ISO posts on mobile, can I?

Felt like a disproportionate reaction, hardly worth noting at the time. But it's escalated to the point that he has a vote on you, and that read doesn't seem genuine. He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

Most of the complaints I've seen hurled at JJJ in this game can be defended as 'it's D1 JJJ trying to spur reactions and get pressure on everyone at once.' Some of Epi's post could be seen like that.

Some of it can't.

Looking for JJJ's response as I'm like 6 pages behind.

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

JJJ also ungave Rej shit?

He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.

Here he takes a Rej read I considered disingeneous and thought to give some validity to it. It's not all black and white. Never is. But I don't know if this makes JJJ look better or worse, given the subject. Just a little more consistent.

I'd look up other games where Jay ended up on a random wagon instead of the one he'd been dogging most of the day, but once again, meta is crap.

This whole nightkill analysis based on character, devotion to the site and out-of-game closeness to TH is kinda angleshooty.

I know I can't condemn it, as I got caught up in it and the Mac/JJJ go has changed my perception a great deal, but I thought I'd put that out there.

Water them changes of perception, sonny?

Mac is town.

JJJ is lower on my townlist, and only not at the bottom because I've never actually seen this kind of angleshooting not be true. It's a scummy practice, town or mafia, but it usually works and is reliable.

It's not about emotional manipulation, as I mentioned in Phenon: Origins. It's a different kind of pragmatic and cold, one that you'd apparently stake honor on.

I welcome examples or corrections. I feel JJJ as scum, but as Mac called Epi earlier, I'm a sucker for character calls.

speedchuck made a mission this game of defending me when the pressure was on me. In a few cases he would qualify that with generic waffles so that he could get away with whatever eventuality (and probably to make me look worse if he dies), but the overarching theme here is pro-JJJ.

Let's consider Fayt:

Spoiler: show

Before I go in on this, I do read JJJ and Mac as town. I can't think of a reason why scum would go for a mislynch on me, maybe because it would be "easy." (this isn't the first time I've had the let's gang on the newcomer) but it's a terrible risk once I flip so I'll lay out my thoughts on JJJ's read on me. I would have to dig deeper on the other reads and see what I'm missing. The whole LC wagon still strikes me as odd and felt like someone was trying to save Rej at the end.

I've already talked about Mac's theory of me and Rej's distancing. I failed to see how off of the words "I do lean" vs "I lean" when the topic at hand was responding to JJJ. responses in bold and this color is mine.

Large post defending me

i guess ill vote drago and see if jay wants to break the tie

That’s a preferable counterwagon.

I’m still content to keep my vote right on you, mister.

fair enough but i doubt you'd risk an avoidable mislynch

i dont think tony is gonna show up anytime soon

don't like this so much. "an avoidable mislynch" implies that you would know JJJ is town despite asking earlier if you should vote JJJ or not. hmm. Unless I'm interpreting this wrong.

The other posts aren't that great either. Do you find Drago scummy? Or is this just a bait for JJJ.

I end up becoming unsure of LC so I did a no vote as a placement before I can look more on my lunch break.

[VOTE: Sprityo] aubergine

It could actually be said that nobody in this game has defended me more confidently than Fayt has.

And I opened Day 2 with my vote on them immediately! There's reasonable objectivity, and there's just too much information. It follows the trend I have painstakingly displayed in this post. Defending me in isolation needn't be a condemnation either, but consider the conditions under which I am being defended and by whom. I just don't believe that Fayt actually "trusts" me.

Fantastic post. Jay is town.

[Dragomir]

I highly resent suspicion that is based on comparison to a game where I was not scum. Had no teammates and did not play remotely like scum.

This is bullshit. It's like saying you can't use a game where you was SK against you because you didn't kill anyone and played like a townie. You still knew you were scum, thus your mentality changes automatically.

[Dragomir]

Wow, that entire Nutella and Jay interaction was juicy as hell. Good points coming from both sides. Yeesh.

I've come to notice something. Jay is always getting flack and lots of heat in every game he plays in regardless of alignment. Why? I've also noticed that the flack and heat is at its peak at a moment in the game where a mistake could fuck us in the ass. It's always the climax of the game too.

Makes me wanna policy lynch Jay every game so we don't always come into this situation.

[Dragomir]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

[Dragomir]

Im sure we can spare potentially losing 3 Townies in one cycle as there's 10 players alive right now and only 1 mafia.

[Michelle]

What i dislike at JJJ is that he puts me in the Poe without thinking i don't know the old members like TH and if i were to NK someone if i'd be wolf it would be anyone i know between people i already played with. And i would ignore also TSP because he posted so low that i even didn't notice him.
This is an elementary logic and this is not a defense, i am pointing out he needs me in that Poe to support his narrative.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What i dislike at JJJ is that he puts me in the Poe without thinking i don't know the old members like TH and if i were to NK someone if i'd be wolf it would be anyone i know between people i already played with. And i would ignore also TSP because he posted so low that i even didn't notice him.
This is an elementary logic and this is not a defense, i am pointing out he needs me in that Poe to support his narrative.

I can’t discount you conclusively from killing Turnip Head or TSP. Again you don’t seem to understand what my POE is about. When I remove someone on the basis of the TH kill, it’s because I can make an assertion confidently. My knowledge of an experience playing with folks like Epignosis and Dom et al certainly plays a role. I simply do not know enough about you to derive the same confidence from any kill. The points you make are even fair points! Maybe you would be more inclined to kill someone you know. I could see that. I am not confident of that.

At this point in the game, I have a reason to call every single player in this game a civilian and feel pretty good about it except Fayt. I actively suspect Fayt most too. That’s why I voted for Fayt. I have to recognize though that I am not a perfect player, and all of the reasoning that brings me to my vote can still end up wrong. So I name players that I think make the most sense as alternatives to fill the 4-name POE that the current numbers ratio affords me. That’s why you’re in it. That’s why Dragomir is in it. That’s why MacDougall is in it. I think all three of you are more likely to be dogs. But I get four.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

I am completely fine with that as long as it does not take an entire mislynch away from the dog’s number available. The margin for error means everything.

9 vs. 1 now.
ML and kill —> 7 vs. 1
ML and kill —> 5 vs. 1
ML and kill —> 3 vs. 1 —> MyLo
—> 3 mislynches

9 vs. 1 now.
ML, kill, and JJJ vigged —> 6 vs. 1
ML and kill —> 4 vs. 1
ML and kill —> 2 vs. 1 —> LyLo
—> 3 mislynches

So on paper here it looks okay. Indeed the latter could be called better; 2 vs. 1 is generally better than 3 vs. 1.

So if Fayt is a dog and mister or madame vigilante out there decides to shoot me, cool. Good move. Just ensure you thoroughly review all of the roles in the game in case some little detail can screw this up. Anything pertaining to kills or vote manipulation can apply.

Having me alive at LyLo may just mean we lose given how hard it is to get folks to hear me. So I want to be nowhere near that.

I hope my numbers are sound.

[Dom]

Jay-- is this gaslighting?

I think it’s misunderstanding. I haven’t viewed nutella’s reads as being unexplained/inexplicable. It’s just a matter of context with her. She’s rarely the sort to go on about some read in detail.

Yet I'm expected to give excruciating detail for every breath I take.

Yeah fuck that.

The problem was you only suspected one person and didn't change at all into the second day.

For someone who complains I don't read their posts, you sure don't read mine.

So fuck that.

I'm feeling it's LC.

LOL

[VOTE: Dom] aubergine

Do you think Dom kills Turnip Head?

Yes.

LOL

Alright I'm at the office. I'll plop down in the ol' chair, open up a new tab for some Walrus choons, and do a few Mafia things.

you're at the office at 1AM? You just got there at 1AM?

Now I will finally sleep. I will be making a drive tomorrow afternoon which may interfere with my time here. We'll see what happens. I should be around at least some before I leave though.

And you're going to bed 2 hours later?

I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but this is a load of horseshit.

Tony was never, ever, EVER going to gain momentum as a lynch. That's just the truth, and you knew it. So you nked him. And conveniently tried to make it look good for you. You're a goddamn mastermind, and maybe this could have worked if you had treated his slot a little differently. But as it is, you ended up with a couple holes that I am seeing through despite your panicked facade of confidence.

Dude. I just lynched sprityo. I could have lynched Tony if I wanted to. There is no facade here. There is abject confusion at the reality of the conversation that I am having right now. I am absolutely a dog, and this universe I find myself in is absolutely ridiculous.

YUCKY !

Jay has more wim than anyone. He outed when he tried to make out he'd not kill TH. Never look back. Self vote.

I might. We’re nearing that point where my survival is detrimental.

I think the cat is just Fayt, so I’m at peace. Dogs don’t listen. That’s a big reason why this Mafia game thing we play even works.

Y’all need four player POEs. I see three viable candidates: Fayt, Dragomir, Michelle. I lean strongly toward Fayt. If I’m the fourth name then whatever. The game should be in hand if you people don’t go into nutty mode if/when I’m dead.

Yeah the success of the baddies is probably in trouble if you're dead.



I'm thinking about
Jay
nutella
Dragomir

[Dragomir]

Jay, if Fayt is town, who do have as a 2nd suspect?

[Dragomir]

I personally believe that there's more evidence supporting Jay's innocence than his guilt. I'll fully explain in a minute but right now I want to talk about that perspective slip Nut brought up.

The problem with that slip is that it doesn't make sense for either alignment to say it. Jay just voted for Sprit as Michelle said. Town had to collectively get him lynched and it wasn't by the might of Jay to convince everyone that Sprit was scum. So what I'm getting at is that Jay SHOULD know that whether he's town or mafia. A mafia Jay should also think that they only participated in Sprit's lynch just like a town Jay. So that little "slip" there is not really that much of a slip when he shouldn't have said it regardless of alignment. He never actually got someone lynched so he shouldn't be having the mentality of "I already got someone lynched so I can probably do it again" that a mafia has when they pull off a mislynch.

[Fayt]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

Jay seems hellbent that I'm the last cat (I'm not) not many people know me and I would be an easy target to go to after last phase. And like I said, if my mislynch finds the last scum, I'm all for it.

[Fayt]

One thing I'm worried about is if there is a deep wolf at play if JJJ is town.

[Dom]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

[Dragomir]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

What are we supposed to do with that? Accuse him of lying?

[nutella]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

It's Jay. That is par for the course. He said he was going back because his computer was there and he wanted to compile his bullshit defense essay.

Also did you miss his whole essay deal bc somehow you caught up without commenting on it.

[Long Con]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

I just assumed he was not on Eastern Standard Time.

[nutella]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

I just assumed he was not on Eastern Standard Time.

I think he is. He's just weird. Why is this such a big deal? There are much more interesting things to pick at re: Jay.

[nutella]

I mean you can extend those details to something like mac's point, that Jay put way too much effort into his elaborate civ case.

[Dragomir]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

[mention]nutella[/mention] what do you think about this?

[Dragomir]

I personally believe that there's more evidence supporting Jay's innocence than his guilt. I'll fully explain in a minute but right now I want to talk about that perspective slip Nut brought up.

The problem with that slip is that it doesn't make sense for either alignment to say it. Jay just voted for Sprit as Michelle said. Town had to collectively get him lynched and it wasn't by the might of Jay to convince everyone that Sprit was scum. So what I'm getting at is that Jay SHOULD know that whether he's town or mafia. A mafia Jay should also think that they only participated in Sprit's lynch just like a town Jay. So that little "slip" there is not really that much of a slip when he shouldn't have said it regardless of alignment. He never actually got someone lynched so he shouldn't be having the mentality of "I already got someone lynched so I can probably do it again" that a mafia has when they pull off a mislynch.

This too.

[nutella]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

@nutella what do you think about this?

Fine with it, also fine with the other way around.

[nutella]

I guess I'm more eager to find out if I'm right about Jay sooner but whatever it can be either way.

[nutella]

The perspective slip thing is such a minor thing in the grand scheme of things so I don't care much that you see it that way-- for me it was a little more nuanced than that and again I swear I saw an earlier similar thing but I can't remember.

[Dragomir]

I have an idea. Let's lynch Fayt, if he's not the last mafia. Vig shoots Jay next night.

@nutella what do you think about this?

Fine with it, also fine with the other way around.

Bet, vote for Fayt.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I literally drove to my office at 1 AM, yes. I was excited about sharing my experiment, and I am a ridiculous human being.

[Dom]

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

It's Jay. That is par for the course. He said he was going back because his computer was there and he wanted to compile his bullshit defense essay.

Also did you miss his whole essay deal bc somehow you caught up without commenting on it.

Here I was hoping for a single post from you without being rude, and yet here I am.

I find it to be a whole lot of nothing which should be evident from my entire attitude, but ok go off, sis.

No one else finds it weird that Jay went to an office at 1AM and then at 3AM went to bed?
No one?

I just assumed he was not on Eastern Standard Time.

I think he is. He's just weird. Why is this such a big deal? There are much more interesting things to pick at re: Jay.

You think it's not a big deal that Jay is obviously lying and had no intentions of ever really clearing his name?

Of course you don't. You, out of your nature, always hate everything I post.

[Dom]

I literally drove to my office at 1 AM, yes. I was excited about sharing my experiment, and I am a ridiculous human being.

LOL ok bro

[Dom]

How far away is your office?

[Epignosis]

Assumption 2 is based on a false premise. "Mislynch bait" my doggy ass.

i like the tone here no matter JJJ's alignament she is sassy and i saw scum Nutella sweeter and non confrontational.

nutella = sassy
Epignosis = rude

[Dom]

To be clear, Jay, in my opinion, said what he said about clearing his name hoping everyone would forget he hadn't actually followed through on that. He then made up a lie about having to go to his office for his computer, which he apparently did at 1AM, only to turn around and go back home at 3AM to do.

Yet, he posted the stuff detailing people's interactions with speedchuck no problem.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For all the “Jay put too much effort into the defense” shite, I can provide an explanation and see who even gives a damn.

We keep blowing leads this year, Syndicate civilians. Over and over. Scrimmage, Steely Dan, Shockheaded Peter, that one game where Quin (I think?) was the last mafia.

People have spent the whole game telling me how catty I am, with incredibly confident tones at times, and I am according a high-probability mislynch on any day for the remainder of the game. If that happens, we’re that much closer the blowing another lead. So yes, I put effort into explaining why I feel that TSP kill was a cat mistake which should exonerate me. The alternative theory is completely stupid tinfoil junk. I genuinely hoped folks would see that. Unfortunately that hasn’t happened and my effort to get out of mislynch range backfired.

A vigilante is a good solution to the Jay problem — even if that means vigging Fayt after I’m lynched.

[nutella]

You think it's not a big deal that Jay is obviously lying and had no intentions of ever really clearing his name?

zero idea what you're talking about here. he wasn't lying about going to the office, but he was lying about his whole civ clear thing which he clearly had intentions to do, it just didn't work out. I do not follow your wording here.

[Dom]

For all the “Jay put too much effort into the defense” shite, I can provide an explanation and see who even gives a damn.

We keep blowing leads this year, Syndicate civilians. Over and over. Scrimmage, Steely Dan, Shockheaded Peter, that one game where Quin (I think?) was the last mafia.

People have spent the whole game telling me how catty I am, with incredibly confident tones at times, and I am according a high-probability mislynch on any day for the remainder of the game. If that happens, we’re that much closer the blowing another lead. So yes, I put effort into explaining why I feel that TSP kill was a cat mistake which should exonerate me. The alternative theory is completely stupid tinfoil junk. I genuinely hoped folks would see that. Unfortunately that hasn’t happened and my effort to get out of mislynch range backfired.

A vigilante is a good solution to the Jay problem — even if that means vigging Fayt after I’m lynched.

I haven't spent the whole game telling you how catty you are so cut that bullshit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How far away is your office?

About a 5-7 minute drive.

It’s quite common for me to be there during that time frame really. I may need therapy, but it’s the truth!

[nutella]

To be clear, Jay, in my opinion, said what he said about clearing his name hoping everyone would forget he hadn't actually followed through on that. He then made up a lie about having to go to his office for his computer, which he apparently did at 1AM, only to turn around and go back home at 3AM to do.

Yet, he posted the stuff detailing people's interactions with speedchuck no problem.

oh I think I see what you're saying. I was trying to figure out the timing of it, bc of course he had been planning to post that whole thing at some point this phase but it's weird that he left his computer at work and had to go back for it if he had been eagerly awaiting the reveal of his grand experiment. I suppose the holding back on it was just deliberately messing with us though.

[Dom]

Jay is so obviously lying about something that should not matter.
Why is he doing so? Is it because the entire premise of why he didn't post his big clearing of his name was bullshit in the first place?