Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[iaafr]

they lacked the qualities of a townsperson boom gotem #cased

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

My hot take is that Epi is town

[iaafr]

im actually going to just confidently assume im completely correct on the entire game until a flip proves me wrong

[Epignosis]

investigatives can't claim in this setup!!!!! the biggest potential payoff of a godfather is a single slot hard defending for no apparent reason!!!

Syndicate regulars are very good about using their investigative roles to get mafia lynched even with no claiming. It's ingrained in our systems.

[Pawn Lelouch]

im actually going to just confidently assume im completely correct on the entire game until a flip proves me wrong

Tbf my hard bottom two are syndicate members so I have no issue with lynching in that area till we get proven wrong.

[112]

You evaded my question with "is the only thing you disagreed with in that post concerning you? "

yes but what does it mean about me?

i think the best explanation i could give you is that you did in those analyses what you're doing here- pointing to things without explaining why they mean town+ or wolf+ in terms of how a player has been trending.

[iaafr]

im actually going to just confidently assume im completely correct on the entire game until a flip proves me wrong

Tbf my hard bottom two are syndicate members so I have no issue with lynching in that area till we get proven wrong.

current bottom 3? because my memorys bad today

[iaafr]

also yes im not reading that as a question evasion but more concern about epi not trying to evaluate 112 on the holistic readslist but just responding to their single entry in 112's readslist

which is a very valid concern, i've shared similar about other people talking about readslists in certain ways

[Pawn Lelouch]

im actually going to just confidently assume im completely correct on the entire game until a flip proves me wrong

Tbf my hard bottom two are syndicate members so I have no issue with lynching in that area till we get proven wrong.

current bottom 3? because my memorys bad today

Nova + Dom bottom 2. Third is a 3 way tie between Rej replacement, LLD, and Sprit.

[Epignosis]

investigatives can't claim in this setup!!!!! the biggest potential payoff of a godfather is a single slot hard defending for no apparent reason!!!

*blinks*

that

is significant

and says that 112 is almost certainly town

scum are not going to hard defend their godfather under these kinds of harsh anti-claim conditions

aight who pushed the idea of the Godfather first they scum

I absolutely would defend my godfather to the extent that I believed I could. There is so much more utility than that. If a godfather gets checked, the investigator may well take that person's views as gospel, and if he or she goes down and is revealed to seemingly have had information, people can look back and say "[The Godfather] must be a civilian!"

Too valuable a role to lose Day 1 whether claiming is legal or not.

[iaafr]

112 town because guest 1

Dom scum because regular 1

Epignosis scum because regular 2

Evenstar town because guest 2

iaafr town because guest 3

Jackofhearts2005 scum because regular 3

Lady LambdaDelta town because guest 4

MacDougall scum because regular 4

Master Radishes town because guest 5

Michelle town because guest 6

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME town because guest 7

novaselinenever scum because regular 5

Pawn Lelouch town because guest 8

Quin scum because regular 6

Rej / ColinIsCool scum because regular 7

sprityo scum because regular 8

thats uhhhhhh 8-8?

4-4-8?

[iaafr]

did i miscategorize anyone

[Epignosis]

You evaded my question with "is the only thing you disagreed with in that post concerning you? "

yes but what does it mean about me?

i think the best explanation i could give you is that you did in those analyses what you're doing here- pointing to things without explaining why they mean town+ or wolf+ in terms of how a player has been trending.

So you have nothing specific to offer? Just a general taking a dump on what I put together (and in the same breath, what I'm doing now given the limited circumstances).

Okay then. Got it.

[Epignosis]

i understand ethics is not a science, but does it spark an idea in anyone if i call it the applied science of the Will?

It sparks disagreement or I’ve just been whooshed.

i don't mean ethics=applied science(Will) in the literal sense that it can be reduced to the application of empirically-verified scientific principles of the Will. The Will, by all definitions I know of it, is supposedly outside of the normal laws of cause and effect, and there thereby can't be any science of it in the traditional sense. To say it's an applied science with a literal implication would be nonsense.

I guess I just went through a lot of my life understanding ethics to be in the very theoretical realm; but I've recently been understanding it more as something that must be applied in some way to make any sense of itself. If there is a purpose in studying ethics, it follows that there must be sense in applying it; and there's no other means to apply it than through the application of the Will, no?

iaafr, help me out here.

No, cause free will is a lie.

Spoiler: show

I don’t actually care about determinism because we can’t test for it and it doesn’t matter unless you want to boil it down to “Is so and so someone I should hate for doing a thing or did they do a thing because they are fated to be an asshole and it isn’t their fault” and even if we somehow determined it was the later, then we’re just predetermined to be people who believe in determinism so we’re not even really having the conversation.

That is, determinism is a cop out for bad ethics or mistakes OR it’s irrelevant. There’s no world where you can evaluate that determinism is correct and live more ethically because of it.

Plus, I like to think that I’m driving and not in the passenger seat. It literally does nothing for me to pretend if I’m wrong unlike wishful thinking solutions to other existential crisises, like going to church if I’m an atheist, which has an opportunity cost. In fact, I can’t actually choose to believe in free will if free will doesn’t exist so if I’m wrong, you can’t judge me for it.

So yeah. Joke ruined.

Disagree.

[iaafr]

i like how nook and epi havent even commented on this theory yet

[Epignosis]

Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious

As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.

This is the first mention of "Godfather" in the thread and it's a strong argument put forwards by Epignosis.

Epignosis is an experienced player and absolutely should have known better than to argue this given the anti-claim rules.

Epignosis is trying to distort Town's worldview and get 112 lynched.

Radishes and Pawn then picked up the godfather idea and ran with it, IIRC. They might not be scum but they sure as heck deserve sus points for that.

*goes to ctrl-f godfather through the entire thread*

I am an experienced player on The Syndicate.

Role claiming and info-dumping were illegal in all contexts for years.

[Epignosis]

i like how nook and epi havent even commented on this theory yet

I like how Epi hasn't gotten to a theory to comment on yet.

[iaafr]

you and i just have very different thought patterns if you can resist reading recent realtime posts during a catchup

[iaafr]

not that ive done a catchup at any point in this game

[iaafr]

further evidence for the distance between our souls

[Epignosis]

I haven't been reading pages I missed

does anybody scumread epi other than lld

Since Evenstar brought my name up, let me reiterate: I think Epi fits into a scum!Eva world because I felt his analysis of her interaction with Drago was poor, and I think Epi's vote on 112 could potentially read as a scum voting slot based on how it went down. I'm not outright scumreading Epi, however. Overall I think his play has been fine.

Call him Null, or Null- perhaps.

I don't suppose you would believe that Evenstar was the very last person studied.

[Epignosis]

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: ColinIsCool, [Player #30 who im not gonna look up]

So this is MY color chart based on my two pools.

I'm my world, it looks like mafia favor the counter wagon as well as random 1 off votes.

I have not studied this yet, but I appreciate it. I want to go over it further, sprityo.

[Epignosis]

I dunno I tend to think that if it was left unsaid that most or at least a good portion of us would vote along similar lines if twas simply the objective to "vote for whomever you think is the most objectively scummy". If that person happens to be scum then voila.

- oh, you're betting that 112 is scum

... ohhhhhhhhh

- Yeah, Mac's right, the scum ought to be under significant pressure after the loss of their Godfather yesterday and are probably going to want to play conservatively rather than risk a second scum lynch in a row

It's worth noting I got caught out by this as well, which makes me feel a bit better about Pawn and Radishes because we're all not native to Syndicate. Still side-eyeing Michelle though: shouldn't she be used to this style of game?

It's also worth noting that Epignosis is a very long-time member of The Syndicate, where I am told that anti-claim rules like this are pretty standard. He should absolutely know better than this.

Spoiler: show

[iaafr]

oh michelle's played on the syndicate before i think

maybe she's scum

matches up with being wishy washy on her maybe she's half scum

[iaafr]

3 factions? 7 town 3 scum 3 scum 3 scum?

[iaafr]

oh man when she talked about meta this game

was that softing 3p?

wiggles1993 actually softed sk to me once when i was suspecting him by talking about my associations off him lmao

[Pawn Lelouch]

3 factions? 7 town 3 scum 3 scum 3 scum?

3 scum factions is a bit much. 2 with some 3p equivs maybe?

[iaafr]

it actually absolutely makes sense to make michelle a 3p if shes like

relatively new to syndicate but not completely new like the rest of us

[iaafr]

i wonder if all the people i thought nutella was TMIing because i thought they werent obvtown were actually scum but just not on her faction

namely jack and creature and michelle

[Pawn Lelouch]

i wonder if all the people i thought nutella was TMIing because i thought they werent obvtown were actually scum but just not on her faction

namely jack and creature and michelle

Would also explain the brazeness around Creature very well.

[Epignosis]

You do realize that one is named after me, right?

[Epignosis]

new theory: all the syndicate regulars are scum and everybody else is town

this is now my readslist and i will be voting according to it

Syndicate regulars are all scum.

We're not in here with you.

You're in here with us.

[iaafr]

, but unironically

[Pawn Lelouch]

, but unironically

Epi is just openwolfing now. It's fun, I thought we would be the only ones to do that.

[iaafr]

yall got these lowkey reactions to the most galaxy brained real read ever to exist in the history of mafia

[iaafr]

btw real derp incoming:

do wolves have daychat on this site

[Pawn Lelouch]

yall got these lowkey reactions to the most galaxy brained real read ever to exist in the history of mafia

Nah, there's more real galaxy brained reads in mafia by far. This is honestly tame in regards to how little it actually reaches surface level wise.

[iaafr]

yall got these lowkey reactions to the most galaxy brained real read ever to exist in the history of mafia

Nah, there's more real galaxy brained reads in mafia by far. This is honestly tame in regards to how little it actually reaches surface level wise.

its still a literal entire gamesolve on day 2 cmon man give me a little credit

but youre right it doesnt take much depth of thought

[Epignosis]

Grades are due tomorrow. It's almost 2am here. I'm out. I doubt I'll be able to do anything further here given my circumstances.

Make a good decision.

[iaafr]

btw real derp incoming:

do wolves have daychat on this site

i made up this derp btw i know the answer

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i like how nook and epi havent even commented on this theory yet

It’s a silly theory imo but you do you, I’ve seen much worse theories lead to good conclusions

[iaafr]

Grades are due tomorrow. It's almost 2am here. I'm out. I doubt I'll be able to do anything further here given my circumstances.

Make a good decision.

yes sir

[iaafr]

does anybody wanna have a galaxy brain read contest?

[Pawn Lelouch]

yall got these lowkey reactions to the most galaxy brained real read ever to exist in the history of mafia

Nah, there's more real galaxy brained reads in mafia by far. This is honestly tame in regards to how little it actually reaches surface level wise.

its still a literal entire gamesolve on day 2 cmon man give me a little credit

but youre right it doesnt take much depth of thought

Oh you're getting a lot of credit for it in my mind, more just saying that it's a theory that makes sense rather than being completely insane on the face of it.

[iaafr]

just post your most galaxy brained read in this game

town or scum doesnt matter just the thought process has to be very you

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

does anybody wanna have a galaxy brain read contest?

Pawn is scum lying about his computer woes to cover for not playing his usual word heavy style.

Mic drop.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Wait do we have to actually believe these

[iaafr]

i mean honestly meh

[iaafr]

yes

yes thats the point imo

[iaafr]

if im completely wrong pawn and 112 are just still probably scum and both pocketng me cuz they find me amusing or something