Inception [END]

[Elephant]

It seems best tonwait for Nanook to weigh in, but if the other group lynched Nova, that seems to have been a good idea which we should consider emulating? Unless we assume that the other group was as adept with our wagons as we were -- not a surprising occurrence given my prediction, by the way. LHF lynches tend to get directed by scum. Given that both wagons were town, we might need to look towards who set these up.

Ten voters on two players. Who's more responsible, those who set it up, or those who finished it off? Maybe wolves were waiting in the wings to ensure a town lynch? Not to mention that the so-called "LHF group" were all involved in those votes as well, right?

It is immaterial who "finishes off" competing town/town wagons. The appearance of equal weight that was given to these wagons was probably instrumental in setting the scene for the DFaraday night kill. Or maybe the killer was convinced, as I was, that we would be better off with DFaraday resolved.

Regarding the "set-up", we have the special case of Mr Benson employing a questionnaire to choose the day's lynch candidates. As Mr Benson is now above suspicion, the immediate set-up of these wagons is impossible to attribute to any specific person.

[juliets]

Reading novaselinenever encounters the same difficulty as feading any low-activity player: there defense of Drago feels unfounded, but they did not have time to read the ISO and may not have seen the full ISO. The thingbthat strikes me most is that this defense only appears after nutelly challenges nova, and there nova deflects with a counter-question at first:

Drago is Town here no?

No?

Why?

Considering that this quote is the start of a conversation that ended with the quote I reproduced in my previous posts, then the conversation flows like this:
- Nova townreads Drago with no context
- nutella challenges, calls Drago town
- Nova ignores the challenge, questions nutella
- nutella defends scumread of Drago
- Nova attacks scumread of Drago

Nova never gives any own reasoning, instead the conversation turns from to source of Nova's own read to the legitimacy of nutella's read. It culminates in an argument that strongly implies that Dragomir would appear as town if he were present, which he wasn't. This is a strong Dragomir defense that feels as if it was conjured up out of thin air. I believe that the other group may well have caught a wolf here.

hmm - maybe you're right about the "Nova attacks scum read of Drago". I didn't read the post as an "attack" (assuming we are talking about the post where nova reminded nutella she scum read Drago in D&C and was wrong) but I agree that he never gives a reason and turns the conversation back on nutella. I didn't think of it that way when I read it earlier. So I give him (or Ty4on) more scum points than I did originally.

[juliets]

I totally did. Sorry jules! I copied the lynch poll and cut out the extraneous stuff, and I guess I cut out juliets too.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
nutella
Hyena
Creature
Elephant
juliets
Trustworthy Liberal
vanity.
novaselinenever / Ty4on

No problem LC but when you wake up from your nap I'd like to hear the "whys" for your read of me being that low.

[juliets]

I still do not feel good about vanity. I criticized his lynch box, and waited for vanity to appear at the time he said he would, but he did not, instead appearing only after three votes were placed. He did the minimum needed to brush off that case, which I am not happy about. Vanity seems to still not understand what strong player bias means.

I looked back at his responses and it's true he didn't respond to all of your points. My read though was that he was aggravated about multiple things and not in the mood to engage in a point by point refutation which led me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that was not wise.

One thing that confuses me a lot is it seems like you only posted that case after vanity did not show up when he said he would. You seemed really angry over that point but I don't really understand why. Sometimes people say they will be back around a certain time and then rl gets in the way. What was it about this instance that caused you so much heartburn? One of your comments if I remember correctly was something along the lines of he "left [you] there" - like it was the two of you against others. I may have misinterpreted that though.

Anyway, I would appreciate you sharing how you felt and why it made you so angry or tell me I've got it wrong and why.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Is there a reason that juliets is town beyond “posting a lot” ?

I’ve only skimmed pieces so I’m genuinely asking for input

[Elephant]

I still do not feel good about vanity. I criticized his lynch box, and waited for vanity to appear at the time he said he would, but he did not, instead appearing only after three votes were placed. He did the minimum needed to brush off that case, which I am not happy about. Vanity seems to still not understand what strong player bias means.

I looked back at his responses and it's true he didn't respond to all of your points. My read though was that he was aggravated about multiple things and not in the mood to engage in a point by point refutation which led me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that was not wise.

One thing that confuses me a lot is it seems like you only posted that case after vanity did not show up when he said he would. You seemed really angry over that point but I don't really understand why. Sometimes people say they will be back around a certain time and then rl gets in the way. What was it about this instance that caused you so much heartburn? One of your comments if I remember correctly was something along the lines of he "left [you] there" - like it was the two of you against others. I may have misinterpreted that though.

Anyway, I would appreciate you sharing how you felt and why it made you so angry or tell me I've got it wrong and why.

At the start of the day, I attacked vanity over his lynch box of LHF. I had hoped to confront him on this in the thread, and since he had advertised his return, I expected to be able to do so. His delinquence made this impossible, so a push on him had to come from a case, and these are, as you can see, easily detracted from (and this forum lacks a proper multiquote facility). I then made the mistake of checking the forum again shortly before I left my house, and caught vanity's unfair aggression at me, whoch in turn made me angry and feel bad whenever I had time to think. Thankfully, that was mostly only on the way to my activity and back. It felt like vanity avoided engaging me on my arguments by wilful absence, and once I had to leave on my appointment, he had nothing better to do than to return and unapologetically attack me behind my back over a case that need not have been made if he had taken his commitments more seriously. (I tend to not be transparent about my absences in mafias precisely because it gives rise to opportunities like these, but since my absence was so close to EoD, I felt I had to announce it.) I just read in Benson's ISO that Evenstar "popping in" shortly before EoD to vote is scummy, but vanity sitting out a challenge and turning up when he has 3 votes on him is alledgedly NAI, and I am still salty about that, too.

[juliets]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

[Elephant]

Is there a reason that juliets is town beyond “posting a lot” ?

I’ve only skimmed pieces so I’m genuinely asking for input

Yes.

[Elephant]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

I enjoy your writings, Juliets!
Have you decided to publish the D2 vote history yet?

[juliets]

I still do not feel good about vanity. I criticized his lynch box, and waited for vanity to appear at the time he said he would, but he did not, instead appearing only after three votes were placed. He did the minimum needed to brush off that case, which I am not happy about. Vanity seems to still not understand what strong player bias means.

I looked back at his responses and it's true he didn't respond to all of your points. My read though was that he was aggravated about multiple things and not in the mood to engage in a point by point refutation which led me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that was not wise.

One thing that confuses me a lot is it seems like you only posted that case after vanity did not show up when he said he would. You seemed really angry over that point but I don't really understand why. Sometimes people say they will be back around a certain time and then rl gets in the way. What was it about this instance that caused you so much heartburn? One of your comments if I remember correctly was something along the lines of he "left [you] there" - like it was the two of you against others. I may have misinterpreted that though.

Anyway, I would appreciate you sharing how you felt and why it made you so angry or tell me I've got it wrong and why.

At the start of the day, I attacked vanity over his lynch box of LHF. I had hoped to confront him on this in the thread, and since he had advertised his return, I expected to be able to do so. His delinquence made this impossible, so a push on him had to come from a case, and these are, as you can see, easily detracted from (and this forum lacks a proper multiquote facility). I then made the mistake of checking the forum again shortly before I left my house, and caught vanity's unfair aggression at me, whoch in turn made me angry and feel bad whenever I had time to think. Thankfully, that was mostly only on the way to my activity and back. It felt like vanity avoided engaging me on my arguments by wilful absence, and once I had to leave on my appointment, he had nothing better to do than to return and unapologetically attack me behind my back over a case that need not have been made if he had taken his commitments more seriously. (I tend to not be transparent about my absences in mafias precisely because it gives rise to opportunities like these, but since my absence was so close to EoD, I felt I had to announce it.) I just read in Benson's ISO that Evenstar "popping in" shortly before EoD to vote is scummy, but vanity sitting out a challenge and turning up when he has 3 votes on him is alledgedly NAI, and I am still salty about that, too.

Ok thanks for sharing. I did not understand all this from your posts so it helps.

(also my post about taking a hint was to Nanook)

[juliets]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

I enjoy your writings, Juliets!
Have you decided to publish the D2 vote history yet?

Hahaha I took so much flak for posting day 1 that I decided to just keep my day 2 history and reference it for my needs.

[nutella]

Reading novaselinenever encounters the same difficulty as feading any low-activity player: there defense of Drago feels unfounded, but they did not have time to read the ISO and may not have seen the full ISO. The thingbthat strikes me most is that this defense only appears after nutelly challenges nova, and there nova deflects with a counter-question at first:

Drago is Town here no?

No?

Why?

Considering that this quote is the start of a conversation that ended with the quote I reproduced in my previous posts, then the conversation flows like this:
- Nova townreads Drago with no context
- nutella challenges, calls Drago town
- Nova ignores the challenge, questions nutella
- nutella defends scumread of Drago
- Nova attacks scumread of Drago

Nova never gives any own reasoning, instead the conversation turns from to source of Nova's own read to the legitimacy of nutella's read. It culminates in an argument that strongly implies that Dragomir would appear as town if he were present, which he wasn't. This is a strong Dragomir defense that feels as if it was conjured up out of thin air. I believe that the other group may well have caught a wolf here.

I'm not really seeing how you're getting to that conclusion though. I tend to think it's more likely that Nova really did think Drago was town for some reason, whereas if he were Drago's teammate he wouldn't be so eager to overtly defend him for no apparent reason.

[nutella]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

[nutella]

like the context of that discussion should tell you what the flavor part is

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

[nutella]

Is there a reason that juliets is town beyond “posting a lot” ?

I’ve only skimmed pieces so I’m genuinely asking for input

I have a few reasons I've decided to lean town on her, things that lean toward the realm of "townslips"/her perspective on certain game topics really sounds like a town perspective and not scum who might know more, though that's obviously easily faked. I still have reservations about her so I need to review what these various things that jumped out at me as "probably just town then" were and how strongly they should contribute to my read of her

[nutella]

if that TL post was actually a slip though (which I am doubting really is one, to be fair) it was addressing juliets lol

[nutella]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

what is this about?

[nutella]

oh it's about you posting too much? lol

[Hyena]

hyena why are you such a tough case to crack every time you're in the game...

like i want to say this is villa hyena but... idk what else to say. i don't think it's that simple tbh

I like making this complicated. :P Keeps the game fun.

[nutella]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

Mmm?

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

Mmm?

Yes.

[nutella]

hyena why are you such a tough case to crack every time you're in the game...

like i want to say this is villa hyena but... idk what else to say. i don't think it's that simple tbh

I like making this complicated. :P Keeps the game fun.

Actually that's a p bad post from vanity

[juliets]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

what is this about?

Nanooks post that I post a lot

[Hyena]

Nutella, you've called Vanity potential scum a couple times, but you haven't seemed to really push on him all that much from what I've seen. Is there something going on between you two? :P

[Trustworthy Liberal]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

No i thought i was part of Role claiming like we weren't suppose to but after re reading the 1st page info i noticed we could i did read my role PM thank you very much

[nutella]

Nutella, you've called Vanity potential scum a couple times, but you haven't seemed to really push on him all that much from what I've seen. Is there something going on between you two? :P

I'm hesitant to vote for him bc I keep getting pushed back to thinking he's town but at the moment I'm leaning more toward taking suspicion of him more seriously

[nutella]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

No i thought i was part of Role claiming like we weren't suppose to but after re reading the 1st page info i noticed we could i did read my role PM thank you very much

Ok sorry for the bit of sass lol but I think I was just a little taken aback by your wording there, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

It wasn’t a hint, I just haven’t had time to do more than skim! That’s a reflection on me, not you lol

[Trustworthy Liberal]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

I havn't liked vanity today or yesterday with him even saying that he is just not really trying the game worrys me cause if thats right and another mislynching i don't know how many we have since the numebr of mafia is unknown as well as what exactly the neutral is doing/capably of

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Is there a reason that juliets is town beyond “posting a lot” ?

I’ve only skimmed pieces so I’m genuinely asking for input

I have a few reasons I've decided to lean town on her, things that lean toward the realm of "townslips"/her perspective on certain game topics really sounds like a town perspective and not scum who might know more, though that's obviously easily faked. I still have reservations about her so I need to review what these various things that jumped out at me as "probably just town then" were and how strongly they should contribute to my read of her

Reasonable and noted

[Trustworthy Liberal]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

No i thought i was part of Role claiming like we weren't suppose to but after re reading the 1st page info i noticed we could i did read my role PM thank you very much

Ok sorry for the bit of sass lol but I think I was just a little taken aback by your wording there, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying

All good I do that sometimes can be pretty surprising to most

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Kinda feeling hyena town tbh

[Hyena]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

This is related to the townslip from him I mentioned yesterday. :P Suppose TL /didn't/ have a fakeclaim and didn't have a role that looked similar to the VTs that have been flipped so far, like Dragomir's for example (he flipped as FORGER). What would that lead you to believe?

(again though, take it with a huuuuge grain of salt)

[Hyena]

Nutella, you've called Vanity potential scum a couple times, but you haven't seemed to really push on him all that much from what I've seen. Is there something going on between you two? :P

I'm hesitant to vote for him bc I keep getting pushed back to thinking he's town but at the moment I'm leaning more toward taking suspicion of him more seriously

Okay, good. <3

[Hyena]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

No i thought i was part of Role claiming like we weren't suppose to but after re reading the 1st page info i noticed we could i did read my role PM thank you very much

Ok sorry for the bit of sass lol but I think I was just a little taken aback by your wording there, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying

All good I do that sometimes can be pretty surprising to most

So then TLib /does/ have a flavor claim? I'm confused.

[nutella]

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

This is related to the townslip from him I mentioned yesterday. :P Suppose TL /didn't/ have a fakeclaim and didn't have a role that looked similar to the VTs that have been flipped so far, like Dragomir's for example (he flipped as FORGER). What would that lead you to believe?

(again though, take it with a huuuuge grain of salt)

sure ok

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

I havn't liked vanity today or yesterday with him even saying that he is just not really trying the game worrys me cause if thats right and another mislynching i don't know how many we have since the numebr of mafia is unknown as well as what exactly the neutral is doing/capably of

Him saying he's not really trying is NAI, I think. Do else haven't you liked about Vanity? Did you ever vote Vanity with Elephant yesterday? If not, why didn't you if you didn't like him?

[juliets]

[mention]Hyena[/mention] you have said you want to resolve on of Elephant or vanity today. Is your thinking that one of them is w and the other t? I don't think they are both w because Elephant seemed genuinely upset by vanity's reaction to his post so I don't think they were distancing. Just want to get your thoughts -

[juliets]

EBWOP: "one" not "on"

[juliets]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

It wasn’t a hint, I just haven’t had time to do more than skim! That’s a reflection on me, not you lol

Oh! ok thanks - I can imagine it's hard to catch up with day 2.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

I havn't liked vanity today or yesterday with him even saying that he is just not really trying the game worrys me cause if thats right and another mislynching i don't know how many we have since the numebr of mafia is unknown as well as what exactly the neutral is doing/capably of

Him saying he's not really trying is NAI, I think. Do else haven't you liked about Vanity? Did you ever vote Vanity with Elephant yesterday? If not, why didn't you if you didn't like him?

I did not vote either wasn't confident i could form a great case on a wolf vanity and i didn't vote elephant cause i don't have a great read on them i have tryied to read them twice now and keep going null

With vanity though i am on another tab rereading his ISO don't mind his D0 so far but don't like d1 which makes me feel he is a wolf still gotta reread yesterday and the little d3 all together tough just this and another post then am back to that

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Hyena you have said you want to resolve on of Elephant or vanity today. Is your thinking that one of them is w and the other t? I don't think they are both w because Elephant seemed genuinely upset by vanity's reaction to his post so I don't think they were distancing. Just want to get your thoughts -

Scum can get genuinely upset at a partners post or treatment of them in thread. It’s maybe the easiest way to distance imo.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ok I can take a hint, lol.

It wasn’t a hint, I just haven’t had time to do more than skim! That’s a reflection on me, not you lol

Oh! ok thanks - I can imagine it's hard to catch up with day 2.

Yeah, post to your hearts content! I was asking for the depth of the TR on you, not shading your post volume

[Trustworthy Liberal]

Also since i haven't before i'll drop my flavor thing now cause why not it's all in the gif (Is pokemon not a spoiler).

Spoiler: show

[Hyena]

@Hyena you have said you want to resolve on of Elephant or vanity today. Is your thinking that one of them is w and the other t? I don't think they are both w because Elephant seemed genuinely upset by vanity's reaction to his post so I don't think they were distancing. Just want to get your thoughts -

Yes, I do /NOT/ think they are both w. It's not feeling that way at all.

[nutella]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

I havn't liked vanity today or yesterday with him even saying that he is just not really trying the game worrys me cause if thats right and another mislynching i don't know how many we have since the numebr of mafia is unknown as well as what exactly the neutral is doing/capably of

Him saying he's not really trying is NAI, I think. Do else haven't you liked about Vanity? Did you ever vote Vanity with Elephant yesterday? If not, why didn't you if you didn't like him?

I did not vote either wasn't confident i could form a great case on a wolf vanity and i didn't vote elephant cause i don't have a great read on them i have tryied to read them twice now and keep going null

With vanity though i am on another tab rereading his ISO don't mind his D0 so far but don't like d1 which makes me feel he is a wolf still gotta reread yesterday and the little d3 all together tough just this and another post then am back to that

can you articulate what you don't like about his d1? I'm also reading his iso and honestly still getting more town feels

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

I havn't liked vanity today or yesterday with him even saying that he is just not really trying the game worrys me cause if thats right and another mislynching i don't know how many we have since the numebr of mafia is unknown as well as what exactly the neutral is doing/capably of

Him saying he's not really trying is NAI, I think. Do else haven't you liked about Vanity? Did you ever vote Vanity with Elephant yesterday? If not, why didn't you if you didn't like him?

I did not vote either wasn't confident i could form a great case on a wolf vanity and i didn't vote elephant cause i don't have a great read on them i have tryied to read them twice now and keep going null

With vanity though i am on another tab rereading his ISO don't mind his D0 so far but don't like d1 which makes me feel he is a wolf still gotta reread yesterday and the little d3 all together tough just this and another post then am back to that

Hmm. Okay. Well, let me know if find anything interesting while going through his ISO.

[nutella]

Also since i haven't before i'll drop my flavor thing now cause why not it's all in the gif (Is pokemon not a spoiler).

Spoiler: show

surpriseception

[juliets]

@Hyena you have said you want to resolve on of Elephant or vanity today. Is your thinking that one of them is w and the other t? I don't think they are both w because Elephant seemed genuinely upset by vanity's reaction to his post so I don't think they were distancing. Just want to get your thoughts -

Scum can get genuinely upset at a partners post or treatment of them in thread. It’s maybe the easiest way to distance imo.

Ok, I don't know if I've ever seen that - real anger instead of fake anger - but it would certainly be a good distancing technique.

Are you seeing both Elephant and vanity as scum right now (I know your vote is on Elephant) or have you not seen enough yet to have that opinion? I'm really struggling with them, I exited the last day phase with a town lean on both.