Inception [END]

#6401

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:30 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:23 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:10 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:04 am sprityo, I would still like to talk to you about how significant you felt your decision was yesterday. Michelle and Radishes said you knew that whoever got lynched or nightkilled would just be "kicked up" a level, back to the other players, did that factor into your thinking at all?
Not at all, i didnt even consider what might happen next, I treated it as any other final 3 situation
Evenstar says your vote made the tally a 3-way rand, how comfortable would you have been with that as the final outcome?
How do you see her last-second vote switch?
Evenstar voted almost immediately after day started for reasons i disagree with. I really dont like it still. I voted Radishes and he voted Evenstar and asked me to switch this was with about 2-3 minutes left. At this point Evenstar could leave the vote at a tie or vote MR to save herself guaranteed. On the random it's a 1/3 chance mafia hit and 2/3 town hit so as far as having to choose it's not anything i consider relevant. Voting for Radishes arguably was the better choice by pure numbers

How would you have felt if Radishes had switched his vote in that situation? Why do you think he didn't?

#6402

What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.

#6403

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:40 am Nova was also my fault. I pointed out his last minute vote on 112 that nearly prevented a Drago lynch. That + lack of activity = easy for scum to push the mislynch and no townie is going to put their foot down to stop it.

I wouldn't fault you for that.

We had no public vote count. No way to determine who was actually in danger.

#6404

Posts I found notable from Evenstar on Day 4:

Spoiler: show

sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

Frankly, I don't really want to argue motives, becuse that's inherently a sea of wine. Nonetheless, I'll try and engage your points.

1: I was highly aggressive early on and it took Mac calling me out to get me to dial back. Sure, fine, fair. That is in fact my playstyle, and of course I tried to dial it back when the person who invited me told me to cut it back.

I've actually recieved moderator warnings on three different forums now regarding letting my pressure turn into personal attacks, so... yeah, I'm trying to be less of a bitch.

2: Day 2 and 3 were a pain in my ass for multiple reasons, primarily because my playstyle tends towards "shoving people hard and seeing if they break." Not being able to make it clear I was voting for someone made me feel like I was punching at air, and the general sense of disconnection and discomfort was infectious. I got stressed enough by beong stuck with the weird unexpected hidden vote ruleset to call Dom a dick and an asshole on Day 3, which I regretted pretty much instantly.

3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.

4: Yeah, there are probably a lot of inconsistencies. I'm an inconsistent person. I get why this may be a natural argument for you, but I really advise you against treating it as AI.

5: On consideration, I would say I'm here because I'm one of like two people who genuinely townread you, and Radishes is here because he pushed me as scum yesterday. I'm a little surprised that it's not Dom instead of Radishes, but I think in that case you might be too much of an obvious odd-man-out given our respective posting styles.

In the case where it's Radishes scum, then you're here because you're the lowest poster that's not Colin and I'm here because the scum know about my strat of flipping my reads at LyLo.

6: Please walk me through how Pawn gets lynched over Colin, because I really don't see it.

Spoiler: show

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:32 am
Let's start with me.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:38 am
sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:49 am
So between the option of Radishes who I haven’t tried to scrutinize. The man who was drawing a lot of different view points from everyone yesterday (and I think day 2 as well?). Points of interest I remember about Radishes was his and Pawn’s “You’re copying me” type deal with reads

By all means I would be the one lynched here since Evenstar and Radihes have the same reads. But if mafia is picking who goes where...then that would be what they want and too easy. I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and go with that’s the case.

Radishes seemed to have pretty consistent reads from what I can remember as well. As in they didn’t change if at all. Evenstar is going to be a bag of cats to dissect
So the two real points against me appear to be my 'wobbly and inconsistent' play (what does that even mean?) and my 'pretty consistent reads' (which isn't true).
My play has been the same since the beginning; any wobbliness comes from three things:
(a) adapting my gameplay to the non-voting/non-rereading mechanics
(b) unfamiliarity with me/my meta
(c) the fact I never truly let go of my scum!Evenstar read and was trying to work around it

My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR
...etc. Rabbit was a strong TR throughout, but beyond that everything was in flux to some extent.
What I mean by "wobbly and inconsistent" is that you don't seem to really believe your own reads.
The fact that your reads have shifted over time is not inherently a bad thing, and in fact too-static reads are often a scumtell: what I take issue with is how your reads have shifted. I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Exhibit A: Me
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Exhibit B: Jack
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

Exhibit C: Pawn, Epi, Rabbit
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

Furthermore, when Pawn and Epi were scumreading each other, you stood aside and let them duke it out without significantly contributing one way or the other. I can see a towny motive for this if both your reads of them were highly uncertain, but my recorded votes say you had Pawn in your bottom 3 and Epi not at this point, so that seems unlikely. I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

In Summary:
My general impression of you is that your scumread of me is your only controversial opinion. You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified. I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times, and I've rarely been satisfied with what I get out of you in response. It's also notable that you have significant falloff in contributions over time: Sprityo posts less than you, but they're much more consistent, and there's significant evidence of real heavy lifting behind the scenes. Given that most of what they've done is bullwork, this is a weaker towntell than I'd like, but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.
Top

Spoiler: show

Evenstar:
1: We've both played on MU, and are therefore more similar than an MU player and a Syndicate player. I expect you to be more legible to me than Epignosis, not less.

2: If you don't claim to know how my brain works, why is so much of your case against me based on your meta read of me? You're saying you don't understand me in the same breath that you're asserting I clearly did X, Y, Z. You acknowledge that your argument based on nightkills is heavily wine-based, but you still devote several paragraphs to it. Is this not an assertion that you know how my mind works well enough that others should listen?

You don't know me, Radish. You know my reputation.

3: Oh, so it's kosher for you to toss in a comment like "*coughfightingforsurvivalcough*" in your counterargument, but it's not okay for me to describe your actions in the ways that I percieved them? It was a hasty backpedal, and I was not the only player to call you out for it.

4: If you believe in your team so much, why are you trusting your gut over the single player in this game who knows me best, who just ate the nightkill?

5: I still don't understand your handling of the Spiny post, and I'm really looking forward to a proper answer there.

6: That discussion was in D3. I was the one who prompted Pawn to take a look at his PoE, because overnight I'd developed the feeling that we'd dunked town in Nova because it was too easy. You didn't prompt Pawn to do jack shit: you did take a look at Jack at around that point because I and Pawn were re-evaluating him. Wishing I had the thread right now.

7: Sure, I'll accept that. Now go through the reasons why you settled on Jack above Pawn again, slowly. Really spell it out for me, because I don't see how you can claim that Pawn deserved to die more than Jack. That is a terrible read.

8: Okay, you were townreading Epi at the start of the day. The question remains: Why didn't you try to break up the obviously unproductive argument between two of your townreads?

9: Yes, it's quite convenient how you were absent for EoD.

10: I read Jack as town and then you read Jack as town. Epi reads Pawn as scum and then you read Pawn as scum. I literally cannot think of an original read you've confidently expressed: even your scumread of me was originally voiced by Hyena IIRC.

11: It is extremely convenient that you have just happened to not be in the thread during every major argument. There's been what, five or six of them now? Nutella vs me, Dom & Epi vs Rabbit, Pawn vs Epi, LLD vs. Epi, etc, etc. At some point, this stops looking like limited playtime and starts looking like conflict avoidance.

12: No, they haven't. That's the point. You spent 90% of D3 going "ennnnhhhhh town I guess" in Pawn's direction at roughly the same volume, and only actually changed your read of him after he'd had major interactions with both Epi and me. What were you doing with that read? How were you trying to make it more settled? "Ambiguous" is a word I chose carefully, because it did not read to me as you waffling or being unable to read those players: it read to me as you not really trying to read those players. You've very much relied on other people to go out and do the real investigative work for you.

13: Fair enough regarding the difficulty of producing content in that thread environment. I would still like you to address the fall-off though.

14: Could have sworn I pinged you like three times for reasons and updated readslists in D3. It's possible that Pawn got to it before I did.

15: Yes, I am in fact trying to scrape up every single even mildly scummy thing you've done and throw them in your face, just like I'm trying to do the same for Sprityo. The fact that there are many, many more of them for you than for Sprityo seems pretty indicative to me.

Radishes Wrote:
1: Okay. Maybe. I don't think this is a productive discussion, though.

2:I agree I know only your reputation. I've said as much. But my case is built on more than just a supposed meta read. It's about your contributions and tone as a player, regardless of the name.

3: Sure it's okay - snide comments are part of the fun of scumhunting! I'm just going to point it out when I see you doing it.

If you wish to characterise it that way, I can't stop you.

4: I trusted them for two Day phases. That's a good amount of time to trust Pawn et al. And yet here you are, still not NKed whilst the player you say knows you best is.

5: I gave one.

6:Then you just don't remember Pawn and I talking about it in D2. No worries, it's tough without the thread.

7: Already did. I listed my best reason for townreading everyone, and for Pawn all I got was 'I like a lot of what he says'. For Jack I had specifics about his tone, his reads, etc. Pawn ended up in my bottom 3 by PoE. I've said this about three times now.

8: Because, again, I wasn't here to do so.

9: Lmao, just admit this is not a point against me.

10:Just blatantly false or exaggerated. You're constructing narratives as you remember from your perspective. You've shown no real indication that you've actually read any of my posts until this round.

11:They're called timezones.

12: This is your narrative and you're sticking to it I guess.

13: Fall off in content? I came in expecting to be able to re-read D1. When I couldn't, I struggled to adapt. I think a lot of us did.

14: Just checked my pings and I have none from you in D3. Which, tbh, seems wrong - I thought there was one.

15: But you're scraping to the point of using my timezone or real-life schedule against me. That's scraping a bit low in the proverbial barrel.

Evenstar:
1: Yep, I've been slanking, I agree. I have made no secret of my deep dislike of this game's secret-voting mechanics, and frankly that makes me not wanna play the game. Lexi got hit even harder than I did: I think she something like 7-posted D2. Does that mean she's scum?

2: I happen to enjoy running weird games like this: naturally my thoughts turned to "how was this designed?" And if you don't expect me to be dumping my stream of consciousness into the game, IDK who you think you're playing with.

3: I would like to note the hypocrisy of your complaining about my not being aggressive enough while simultaneously complaining about how I'm being unfair to you by bringing up things you think are trivial. Not to mention this is literally just a restatement of 1.

4: Pawn and I have an understanding that this is just our meta. I get it looks weird, but this literally happens in every game we're together in. In Dragon Ball M(afia) I went full bulldog on him: I outed him as the Gunsmith and then got mislynched for my troubles.

Yeah.

5: Blah blah D2. Yes, I slanked through D2. You have repeated this argument three times.

6: I guess the Sprityo point's worth addressing. Dom and Colin were not doing significant bullwork. Sprityo was: when he appeared in the thread he generally had something real to say, while the others tended more towards fluff (Michelle, Colin) or directionless aggro (Dom). I do recall saying I wanted to nail you to a wall if Sprit flipped green, but that's because I-believe-it-was-Epi asked "why do you care about Radishes' read of Sprityo?"

You had been fence-sitting and pushing Sprityo from a distance, without voting: I wanted you to publicly commit to the lynch you were sponsoring. You didn't.

7: Still the same accusation from 1. Get better and more varied material.

8: Yep, vote looks bad, not contesting that.

9: Wine argument, requires me to have killed both Nook and Pawn while they were deeply pocketed.

10:

Seriously, you think that I thought you read Sprityo as in the same tier of scumminess as me? You've been on my ass since like D2 by your own admission, and you're tunneling me despite both Pawn and Spiny's better judgment. If you're town, I think we just lose at this point. I don't see how I could possibly convince you given all the evidence you're selectively ignoring.

Spoiler: show

#6405

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:30 am Also Sprityo take the game as a whole, keeping it fragmented is a bad idea.

Your ideas will help us but don't focus just in that area. Make connections with day one and the other levels.

Is this aimed at my conversation with Sprityo?

#6406

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?

I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.

#6407

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:36 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:30 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:23 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:10 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:04 am sprityo, I would still like to talk to you about how significant you felt your decision was yesterday. Michelle and Radishes said you knew that whoever got lynched or nightkilled would just be "kicked up" a level, back to the other players, did that factor into your thinking at all?
Not at all, i didnt even consider what might happen next, I treated it as any other final 3 situation
Evenstar says your vote made the tally a 3-way rand, how comfortable would you have been with that as the final outcome?
How do you see her last-second vote switch?
Evenstar voted almost immediately after day started for reasons i disagree with. I really dont like it still. I voted Radishes and he voted Evenstar and asked me to switch this was with about 2-3 minutes left. At this point Evenstar could leave the vote at a tie or vote MR to save herself guaranteed. On the random it's a 1/3 chance mafia hit and 2/3 town hit so as far as having to choose it's not anything i consider relevant. Voting for Radishes arguably was the better choice by pure numbers
How would you have felt if Radishes had switched his vote in that situation? Why do you think he didn't?

Switched to me? After having voted for Evenstar? Well I would'nt have a choice but to accept my fate and die....if this were a normal game. A switch after realizing i wasnt switching would definitely look bad for him. I feel like he didnt switch votes because he felt confident I would change my mind. There's actually yknow posts that I can quote too regarding that last 10 minutes.

#6408

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:35 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:27 am looks like our vote rules from the dream level are not known. We didn't have an open poll We had to send the vote to the host without mentioning who we voted for and we had to case as scum 3 players in the same time at minimum. We had no acces at wagons and outside dream informations.
Yes, we knew that. We talked to the players you sent us.
cool. And what conclusion do you have on that level?

I don't know what you want to know from me. We concluded that this mechanic was in place so that players would not be town-confirmed or scum-firmed here; a certain night-kill would be conftown, and we tried to figure these out and not lynch them. It's clear that public flips would be a huge advantage to us in the present situation, so this "everyone back together" mechanic made this setup necessary.

Didn't you complain earlier that I wasn't asking game-related questions? How was the question you just asked me game-related?

#6409

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:30 am Also Sprityo take the game as a whole, keeping it fragmented is a bad idea.

Your ideas will help us but don't focus just in that area. Make connections with day one and the other levels.
Is this aimed at my conversation with Sprityo?

it is?

Did I say Elephant and Sprityo?

#6410

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:43 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:35 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:27 am looks like our vote rules from the dream level are not known. We didn't have an open poll We had to send the vote to the host without mentioning who we voted for and we had to case as scum 3 players in the same time at minimum. We had no acces at wagons and outside dream informations.
Yes, we knew that. We talked to the players you sent us.
cool. And what conclusion do you have on that level?
I don't know what you want to know from me. We concluded that this mechanic was in place so that players would not be town-confirmed or scum-firmed here; a certain night-kill would be conftown, and we tried to figure these out and not lynch them. It's clear that public flips would be a huge advantage to us in the present situation, so this "everyone back together" mechanic made this setup necessary.

Didn't you complain earlier that I wasn't asking game-related questions? How was the question you just asked me game-related?

Isn't game related your conclusion about the dream level? I could bet it is. :-|

#6411

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.

I haven't seen a case yet. I suspect Radishes, because he came in early, told us of the F3 vote, and suggested that because he was the one who was lynched, Evenstar must be the mafia, for her last-minte vote switch. Radishes also mentioned some prize for the scum team that nobody else has heard of or talked about. It's early in the day, though; Michelle is correct that players should also look at what these three did on the other days, which unfortunately cuts us mostly out.

#6412

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.

do you mind to share a read?

#6413

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.

There is none iirc.
What do you think about my case on Elephant?
Don't forget to tell me about Dom too I asked you few hours ago.

#6414

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am ...I don't know what value you found in this post other than to just be rude to someone who you were absurdly rude to earlier again.

And I don't know what it is about your new people, but you clutch your pearls at me pressuring one of your friends, but hurl insults like no one's business.

Eva literally told Epi to kill himself and you're out here acting like I'm the problem.

Fuck off.

[mention]Dom[/mention], in retrospect you're right, my joke wasn't tasteful and I didn't need to post that. I'm sorry.

I didn't say much about you personally, other than agreeing you were being overly aggressive in your tone (and I used the d-word when referring to that). You keep implying you've been wronged here, and sure, you have, but your tone has been aggressive and in an unproductive way. That's not to say Rabbit and Eva and whoever else was innocent, but you can't point at someone else and say 'but they were worse!' because that doesn't absolve you of your own part. You can't rob a shop and then point at a bank robber and complain they did something worse; you both robbed.

Tl;dr, I agree, others went too far against you. I also maintain you went too far with Rabbit. You're also mischaracterising when Eva said, if I remember what you're referring to correctly, although I agree her words in general were part of the problem.

Can you and I, at least, put this behind us and move forward? I think we're reading the game similarly.

#6415

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:49 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am ...I don't know what value you found in this post other than to just be rude to someone who you were absurdly rude to earlier again.

And I don't know what it is about your new people, but you clutch your pearls at me pressuring one of your friends, but hurl insults like no one's business.

Eva literally told Epi to kill himself and you're out here acting like I'm the problem.

Fuck off.
Dom, in retrospect you're right, my joke wasn't tasteful and I didn't need to post that. I'm sorry.

I didn't say much about you personally, other than agreeing you were being overly aggressive in your tone (and I used the d-word when referring to that). You keep implying you've been wronged here, and sure, you have, but your tone has been aggressive and in an unproductive way. That's not to say Rabbit and Eva and whoever else was innocent, but you can't point at someone else and say 'but they were worse!' because that doesn't absolve you of your own part. You can't rob a shop and then point at a bank robber and complain they did something worse; you both robbed.

Tl;dr, I agree, others went too far against you. I also maintain you went too far with Rabbit. You're also mischaracterising when Eva said, if I remember what you're referring to correctly, although I agree her words in general were part of the problem.

Can you and I, at least, put this behind us and move forward? I think we're reading the game similarly.

I don't agree with you in the slightest other than you have been the least terrible and I'm more than happy to cooperate with you.

I said a lot of stuff. What do you think?

#6416

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:47 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
I haven't seen a case yet. I suspect Radishes, because he came in early, told us of the F3 vote, and suggested that because he was the one who was lynched, Evenstar must be the mafia, for her last-minte vote switch. Radishes also mentioned some prize for the scum team that nobody else has heard of or talked about. It's early in the day, though; Michelle is correct that players should also look at what these three did on the other days, which unfortunately cuts us mostly out.

Your reading comprehension is poor on two counts - that was not my reason for Eva being mafia, and you are completely mischaracterising what I said about the so-called 'prize' (not a term I used). You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

#6417

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.

This is how I feel.

Not ready to lock into a SR of Elephant. But his play is not helping us solve the game.

#6418

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.

Could you please point out to me where I've been illogical?

#6419

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:47 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.
do you mind to share a read?

I feel like I just did.

#6420

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:54 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.
Could you please point out to me where I've been illogical?

You're voting for Michelle right now, that's a start.

#6421

Sprityo's Evenstar compilaton is very much her style, and my eyes soon glazed over, but first I saw this line:

3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.

What was your doublevoter deal? Can anyone tell me more about that?

#6422

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.

It was summarised in D4 as 'wobbly and inconsistent'.

My response to which is roughly: fair enough if it's been perceived that way, but I think it's been seen as such because (a) lack of previous threads made me adapt my usual style of gameplay, (b) lack of meta (I was the only one no one had played with before), and (c) I was trying to work around an Eva scumread when no one else agreed with me. One more I could add now: (d) missing most of my D1 townreads, leaving me with a bunch of nully mcnullersons.

As you can probably see, today I am a different radish. A happy radish. A radish with a mission.

#6423

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:49 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
There is none iirc.
What do you think about my case on Elephant?
Don't forget to tell me about Dom too I asked you few hours ago.

Michelle, regarding Elephant, have you read back on him from D2-D4? I'm not sure what you're basing your read on.

I answered the Dom question a little while ago. Let me know if you don't see it.

#6424

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am Sprityo's Evenstar compilaton is very much her style, and my eyes soon glazed over, but first I saw this line:
3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.
What was your doublevoter deal? Can anyone tell me more about that?

Oh, yeah. We figure Iaafr is the doublevoter since he pushed Drago but ended up not voting at EoD1.

#6425

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:54 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.
Could you please point out to me where I've been illogical?
You're voting for Michelle right now, that's a start.

Ok. I like to use my vote at this stage to indicate where my mind is at, and perhaps to get reactions. I haven't been able to put a complete case together, because I am still (!) catching up, but I don't think Michelle has a solving attitude towards me at all, and I scumread that.

#6426

I will be out of the thread for the next few hours and then back around noon or maybe a little sooner.

#6427

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am Radishes sir, why thunderdome, why not lynch Elephant who is scum?

Because a lynchpool of 3 is a decent one. Elephant is one of 6? players who existed through the same level and voted out several townies, which leaves more room for error that he might be misguided town. Not saying definitively that's what I believe, but odds are better amongst 3.

#6428

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
It was summarised in D4 as 'wobbly and inconsistent'.

My response to which is roughly: fair enough if it's been perceived that way, but I think it's been seen as such because (a) lack of previous threads made me adapt my usual style of gameplay, (b) lack of meta (I was the only one no one had played with before), and (c) I was trying to work around an Eva scumread when no one else agreed with me. One more I could add now: (d) missing most of my D1 townreads, leaving me with a bunch of nully mcnullersons.

As you can probably see, today I am a different radish. A happy radish. A radish with a mission.

I would agree that today you are much less suspicious than you have been in the past.

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:49 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
There is none iirc.
What do you think about my case on Elephant?
Don't forget to tell me about Dom too I asked you few hours ago.
Michelle, regarding Elephant, have you read back on him from D2-D4? I'm not sure what you're basing your read on.

I answered the Dom question a little while ago. Let me know if you don't see it.

You answerted the Dom question a little while ago, but facts have changed.
What say you?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am Sprityo's Evenstar compilaton is very much her style, and my eyes soon glazed over, but first I saw this line:
3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.
What was your doublevoter deal? Can anyone tell me more about that?
Oh, yeah. We figure Iaafr is the doublevoter since he pushed Drago but ended up not voting at EoD1.

"We" don't figure that.
You and Eva figure that based on pretty shitty logic.

If iaafr was the double voter, why not hide in the Dragomir train and the baddies actually don't know which dragomir voter is the doublevoter-- if any of them.

#6429

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:54 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.
Could you please point out to me where I've been illogical?
You're voting for Michelle right now, that's a start.
Ok. I like to use my vote at this stage to indicate where my mind is at, and perhaps to get reactions. I haven't been able to put a complete case together, because I am still (!) catching up, but I don't think Michelle has a solving attitude towards me at all, and I scumread that.

You're catching up on what?

#6430

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:51 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:49 am I don't agree with you in the slightest other than you have been the least terrible and I'm more than happy to cooperate with you.

I said a lot of stuff. What do you think?
Posted one thing above ^

Also (not quoting, too lazy) I forgot about Pawn's read of the Nook kill as 'framing'. Considering no one raised that as a point against Pawn, it's an odd look for him to immediately go there. Simple answer was that Nook, despite not engaging much, was showing townieness and so needed to be killed. That or it's a meta kill, which points to Pawn and maybe Eva, since they've played with him.

Pawn is not the lynch today, but he is firmly in the red category as things stand in my worldview.

#6431

Oops, messed up quotes. Reposting.

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:51 am I don't agree with you in the slightest other than you have been the least terrible and I'm more than happy to cooperate with you.

I said a lot of stuff. What do you think?

Posted one thing above ^

Also (not quoting, too lazy) I forgot about Pawn's read of the Nook kill as 'framing'. Considering no one raised that as a point against Pawn, it's an odd look for him to immediately go there. Simple answer was that Nook, despite not engaging much, was showing townieness and so needed to be killed. That or it's a meta kill, which points to Pawn and maybe Eva, since they've played with him.

Pawn is not the lynch today, but he is firmly in the red category as things stand in my worldview.

#6432

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:02 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am Sprityo's Evenstar compilaton is very much her style, and my eyes soon glazed over, but first I saw this line:
3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.
What was your doublevoter deal? Can anyone tell me more about that?
Oh, yeah. We figure Iaafr is the doublevoter since he pushed Drago but ended up not voting at EoD1.
"We" don't figure that.
You and Eva figure that based on pretty shitty logic.

If iaafr was the double voter, why not hide in the Dragomir train and the baddies actually don't know which dragomir voter is the doublevoter-- if any of them.

I actually didn't say it at all. It was Eva, and Rabbit refused to confirm or deny.

It made enough sense that I wasn't going to bother arguing against it. I have nothing against Rabbit - he's town to me until proven otherwise. I'm not good at reading clues for roles; I focus on the gameplay in front of me.

#6433

Eva
Pawn
Sprit

there be baddies

#6434

perhaps iaafr

#6435

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:07 am Eva
Pawn
Sprit

there be baddies

Eva and Sprit aren't w/w though. No way that F3 had w/w, otherwise it wouldn't have been so intense.

#6436

Ack, that's been a messy catch up. I may have missed something I intended to respond to.

Still haven't had time to read what I missed. Did someone say page...73 or something?

#6437

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:41 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:36 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:30 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:23 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:10 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:04 am sprityo, I would still like to talk to you about how significant you felt your decision was yesterday. Michelle and Radishes said you knew that whoever got lynched or nightkilled would just be "kicked up" a level, back to the other players, did that factor into your thinking at all?
Not at all, i didnt even consider what might happen next, I treated it as any other final 3 situation
Evenstar says your vote made the tally a 3-way rand, how comfortable would you have been with that as the final outcome?
How do you see her last-second vote switch?
Evenstar voted almost immediately after day started for reasons i disagree with. I really dont like it still. I voted Radishes and he voted Evenstar and asked me to switch this was with about 2-3 minutes left. At this point Evenstar could leave the vote at a tie or vote MR to save herself guaranteed. On the random it's a 1/3 chance mafia hit and 2/3 town hit so as far as having to choose it's not anything i consider relevant. Voting for Radishes arguably was the better choice by pure numbers
How would you have felt if Radishes had switched his vote in that situation? Why do you think he didn't?
Switched to me? After having voted for Evenstar? Well I would'nt have a choice but to accept my fate and die....if this were a normal game. A switch after realizing i wasnt switching would definitely look bad for him. I feel like he didnt switch votes because he felt confident I would change my mind. There's actually yknow posts that I can quote too regarding that last 10 minutes.

Ok, I feel I have understood this, but please correct me if I have the nuances wrong. You were all voting each other.
* mafia!Radishes did not switch to you because he would have outed himself (almost).
* town!Radishes did not switch to you because he had conviction, and preferred a rand to lynching you.

mafia!Radishes could have switched for self-preservation.
* He already said early today that he was aware players would only get "kicked up", so he would have known that his lynch was no big deal.
* He made it into a big deal by suggestingt there was a prize of some sort involved for mafia.
* Would Evenstar have reacted to Radishes switching? Knowing her, she probably would So successful self-preservation was doubtful unless done at the very end.

Sprityo, you could have self-preserved onto Evenstar in that situation. Why did you decide against it?

#6438

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:08 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:07 am Eva
Pawn
Sprit

there be baddies
Eva and Sprit aren't w/w though. No way that F3 had w/w, otherwise it wouldn't have been so intense.

F3? I don;t ger your abbreviations

#6439

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:13 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:08 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:07 am Eva
Pawn
Sprit

there be baddies
Eva and Sprit aren't w/w though. No way that F3 had w/w, otherwise it wouldn't have been so intense.
F3? I don;t ger your abbreviations

Final 3. Not a real one, since we're all still here, but Sprit, Eva, and I went to 'Limbo' level together and had to vote out one of us. No way 2 of 3 sent there are scum for mechanics reasons and because the way the thread went it was obvious there were not two mafia teammates working together.

#6440

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:52 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:47 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
I haven't seen a case yet. I suspect Radishes, because he came in early, told us of the F3 vote, and suggested that because he was the one who was lynched, Evenstar must be the mafia, for her last-minte vote switch. Radishes also mentioned some prize for the scum team that nobody else has heard of or talked about. It's early in the day, though; Michelle is correct that players should also look at what these three did on the other days, which unfortunately cuts us mostly out.
Your reading comprehension is poor on two counts - that was not my reason for Eva being mafia, and you are completely mischaracterising what I said about the so-called 'prize' (not a term I used). You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

I am referring to this:

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:06 pm Evenstar is scum. Lock it in. Don't listen to her.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:07 pm I've had her since D2 and no one is listening to me.

Sprityo made a bad choice. I think the mafia may have gained some sort of advantage.

Those were your third and fourth posts today, I think that still counts as entrance. You later expounded:

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:22 pm Too intrigued to sleep yet, too tired to get involved.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm Lemme back up just to orient the rest of you a bit, I'm part of the group that has been in the main thread all along. The rest who have been here the whole time and are still alive are elephant, hyena, juliets, LC, TLib. We didn't have vote restriction rules but learned about them when people joined us from other levels later. This is the "top" level where players can actually die. Or something like that lol.
We figured as much. We 'lynched' players and there were 'kills', but it was all done privately via PMs. We can't discuss it.

Sprit, Eva, and I went to the final level. Something must've been at stake but I don't know what. Anyway, Sprit voted me, Eva leapt on, so I was 'lynched'. But I'm 95% confident Eva is scum and a little annoyed at Sprit, but I think it was mainly down to lack of availability for him and me (we were rarely online together) so I'll forgive him.

(If you guys tell me Sprit is known to be tricky mafia, I may lower my confidence rating.)

#6441

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am Sprityo's Evenstar compilaton is very much her style, and my eyes soon glazed over, but first I saw this line:
3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.
What was your doublevoter deal? Can anyone tell me more about that?
Oh, yeah. We figure Iaafr is the doublevoter since he pushed Drago but ended up not voting at EoD1.

I saw that too, he had announced it well in advance.

#6442

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:01 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am Radishes sir, why thunderdome, why not lynch Elephant who is scum?
Because a lynchpool of 3 is a decent one. Elephant is one of 6? players who existed through the same level and voted out several townies, which leaves more room for error that he might be misguided town. Not saying definitively that's what I believe, but odds are better amongst 3.

what lynchpool? Tell me please the players.

#6443

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:03 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:57 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:54 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:32 am I'm caught up and am voting [VOTE: Eva] aubergine
what do you think about Elephant?
I see someone playing illogically.

Not sure if it's bad, or just illogical.
Could you please point out to me where I've been illogical?
You're voting for Michelle right now, that's a start.
Ok. I like to use my vote at this stage to indicate where my mind is at, and perhaps to get reactions. I haven't been able to put a complete case together, because I am still (!) catching up, but I don't think Michelle has a solving attitude towards me at all, and I scumread that.
You're catching up on what?

On the posts I missed while I was sleeping. I'm a slow reader, and Michelle kept me occupied.

#6444

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:20 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:01 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am Radishes sir, why thunderdome, why not lynch Elephant who is scum?
Because a lynchpool of 3 is a decent one. Elephant is one of 6? players who existed through the same level and voted out several townies, which leaves more room for error that he might be misguided town. Not saying definitively that's what I believe, but odds are better amongst 3.
what lynchpool? Tell me please the players.

Eva/Sprit/Radishes

We were in an F3 'limbo' together and we all agree one of us must be scum because otherwise it made no sense.

#6445

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:50 am @Long Con and @Trustworthy Liberal you guys keep fading into the background and I think it's quite likely one or both of you is scum. I haven't forgotten about you, and am looking forward to seeing what you guys say about this phase's content so far.

We have until Sunday evening to do this. It's Saturday morning. I'm starting to catch up now, I just wanted to have an evening with my wife where I'm not glued to the computer.

#6446

Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:16 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:52 am
Elephant wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:47 am
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am What is the case against Master Radish? If it's been stated this day phase in the thread please tell me who and I will look at their ISO. The posts are running together a bit for me.
I haven't seen a case yet. I suspect Radishes, because he came in early, told us of the F3 vote, and suggested that because he was the one who was lynched, Evenstar must be the mafia, for her last-minte vote switch. Radishes also mentioned some prize for the scum team that nobody else has heard of or talked about. It's early in the day, though; Michelle is correct that players should also look at what these three did on the other days, which unfortunately cuts us mostly out.
Your reading comprehension is poor on two counts - that was not my reason for Eva being mafia, and you are completely mischaracterising what I said about the so-called 'prize' (not a term I used). You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I am referring to this:
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:06 pm Evenstar is scum. Lock it in. Don't listen to her.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:07 pm I've had her since D2 and no one is listening to me.

Sprityo made a bad choice. I think the mafia may have gained some sort of advantage.
Those were your third and fourth posts today, I think that still counts as entrance. You later expounded:

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:22 pm Too intrigued to sleep yet, too tired to get involved.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm Lemme back up just to orient the rest of you a bit, I'm part of the group that has been in the main thread all along. The rest who have been here the whole time and are still alive are elephant, hyena, juliets, LC, TLib. We didn't have vote restriction rules but learned about them when people joined us from other levels later. This is the "top" level where players can actually die. Or something like that lol.
We figured as much. We 'lynched' players and there were 'kills', but it was all done privately via PMs. We can't discuss it.

Sprit, Eva, and I went to the final level. Something must've been at stake but I don't know what. Anyway, Sprit voted me, Eva leapt on, so I was 'lynched'. But I'm 95% confident Eva is scum and a little annoyed at Sprit, but I think it was mainly down to lack of availability for him and me (we were rarely online together) so I'll forgive him.

(If you guys tell me Sprit is known to be tricky mafia, I may lower my confidence rating.)

Right. So read what I said again. You're mischaracterising it. I speculated on there being something to gain from limbo, but did not state there was a prize I knew about beforehand. I scumread Eva for many reasons prior to the vote, not because I was lynched/her last minute vote.

#6447

#6448

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:58 pm
Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:48 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:26 pm Also, hiiii Mendel. <3
Thank you for the warm welcome!
This is my only Syndicate account, so technically it is not an alt. JJJ knew all along, and so did nutella. I've become the Elephant because I felt a bit of an imposter for not actually advancing in the championship, because I wanted to conceal my presence from some participants (not here now), and because I wanted to try out a more considered and less emotional and aggressive posting style. I'd prefer to keep the style, though I can drop it if that helps resolve me. I guess it's good that this isn't an anon game, eh?
Hahaha it IS you! I hope this doesn't mean you will stop posting Elephant pics!

@Elephant are you Mendel? This may explain the refference to Mendel's playstyle.
<3 i still think you are scum but I hope you will understand it because randing scum is part of the game

#6449

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:26 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:20 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:01 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am Radishes sir, why thunderdome, why not lynch Elephant who is scum?
Because a lynchpool of 3 is a decent one. Elephant is one of 6? players who existed through the same level and voted out several townies, which leaves more room for error that he might be misguided town. Not saying definitively that's what I believe, but odds are better amongst 3.
what lynchpool? Tell me please the players.
Eva/Sprit/Radishes

We were in an F3 'limbo' together and we all agree one of us must be scum because otherwise it made no sense.

No. I won't go into your dream. It may be chasing a chimera and i am a practical person..
I TR you i am not sure anymore about Eve being scum and even if Sprityo is not known to me I want to go to my scum read who has higher scum equity than your trio

#6450

It took me 7 hours to catch up on as many hours of sleep. When I signed up, I was told there would be a mechanic in place to reduce the volume, and for the last three days there was, but today is awful.

: image.jpeg (38.27 KiB) Viewed 806 times

Who threatens the subconscious mind?