Inception [END]

[nutella]

I would be fairly happy with an Elephant vote as well, because he instigated and perpetuated the vanity focus and I have some reason to believe he has been controlling in some other ways, potentially including pocketing juliets and taking advantage of her not only in order to make himself look good but in order to benefit the scum team in the long term.


I think TL may well be scum and would be the relatively "safe" poe shot based on GH's article; however I have townread his posts at face value, and his flip will not do much for us in solving other slots. We do need a scum flip and he may be a good bet, but I have reservations there and I think it it's probably a better choice at this point to lynch within the "F3" group and solve from there.

I agree with these thoughts.

What do we know about the F3? What happened down there? What did the host say? Was that Limbo? Epi is confident that the lynches weren't lynches, is that a legit idea? If they weren't lynches, what were they?

I know that went beyond a response to your post.

The lynches in other levels have been "kicks" up to higher levels. If the F3/"Limbo" was the catalyst for everyone coming back together here, perhaps that didn't happen the same way, but I think the popular speculation is that it still mattered whether town or scum was lynched. Either for some kind of "advantage" or something relating to the layers reuniting. Idk.


@Evenstar @Master Radishes @sprityo was there some kind of special wording in the host post at the beginning of the F3 phase? Or was it just a standard "players currently in this location are:" announcement?

MAYBE... the winners of the lower-level lynches got more ROLE POINTS to use! That would explain.... role points.

.....

Would never have thought of that lol. I assumed there was some other mechanic for getting role points, since if this were true it would greatly disadvantage the people who stayed behind in our level. But idk. I thought maybe they were just on a "cooldown"/recharge time after some number of phases or something.

[nutella]

Nobody on the final three got lynched. There was no lynch. Nobody died. Nothing game-related happened. It was inconsequential. Why are people acting like there has to be a mafia member among those three? What logical reason (not "It had to be this way or it sucked") do you have to think it was important and that mafia was represented there?

People kept saying that the mafia could gain some advantage by "lynching" a townie there. I'm sure it had some bearing on the game that relied on one of the three being mafia. Wouldn't make sense for it to have happened at all if not. Except just to fuck with our heads.

Is there any evidence behind this besides "people kept saying?"

Again- let me stress this point- nobody got lynched down there. Nobody. So even if what people kept saying is true, nobody got an advantage.

Or- alternatively if you want to assume a civilian who got the most votes gave the mafia an advantage for the sake of argument- three civilians made it down there, which means the mafia had zero chance at getting the advantage.

Can't we just do this shit the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate and why?

I'm pretty tired of your pedantry regarding the use of terms like "lynch" here. You know full well how people are using that term in the context of this game and the layers. I genuinely don't understand why you would assume all three of them were civilians. If you want to invoke Occam's razor again, one of the three is scum. Please explain why you think the "F3" scenario would have happened and what would have been at stake if all three of them were town.

Do you think it was just randomized from who was left in the previous level, and that it only occurred in order to bring everyone back here the next round? Do you think that if it had gone differently we would still be split up? I honestly have no idea and confuse myself more the longer I think about this. Help me out here.

No. That's not Occam's Razor. That's the opposite of Occam's Razor. That's making up shit.

I am not assuming all three of them are civilians. I am challenging the assumption that there is mafia among them. That's a dangerous and frankly dumb assumption.

If you do not have evidence to demonstrate the claim that one of the three is bad, then you're making shit up.

Personally, I think the entire split phases were bullshit, and I refuse to put any stock into them beyond what people said about one another. Mechanically, it means nothing to me. As far as I'm concerned, I have a job to do: Find mafia and lynch they asses.

I only know what they have told us in the thread, and from what I've learned it sounds likely to me that one of them is mafia. It's possible I'm misinterpreting something.

I don't think you should ignore the mechanics of the game. Maybe it's all random, but it's part of how the game has gone down and you can't deny that it has affected player interactions and most likely role use. It's information, however opaque, that is at our disposal and I do not think you should pretend this is a normal mafia game.

[Epignosis]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

[Long Con]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

nutella ISN'T Dragomir's teammate. Because she was one of the main, and earlier, proponents of his lynch.

[nutella]

Look, on the one hand I agree that analyzing the one dead wolf's interactions is important, but on the other hand I do think there are other data points we can use by now. We have had numerous other flips by now, mislynches, NKs, lots of interaction between players. Yes, it's worth defending the point that a suspect is teammate-compatible with Dragomir, but it's completely reasonable to derive those suspicions from the numerous other data points we have at our disposal.

[nutella]

Besides, interaction analyses in isolation can be misleading. People interact in unpredictable ways sometimes, and while analyzing a dead wolf's interactions is a great tool it's not foolproof and works best when supplemented with other context and other reasons to view someone as scum.

[juliets]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

nutella ISN'T Dragomir's teammate. Because she was one of the main, and earlier, proponents of his lynch.

I agree with this. Why would scum nutella bus as early as she voted, which was second after Nanook? Maybe there is an answer I am overlooking but I keep going back to this point.

[nutella]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

[Dom]

Well, this is the first time I've ever seen this thread and it's 135 pages long, so, uh. Probably not going to read all that

Evenstar was considered nearly mechanically cleared at one point in a thread I was in so what's up with all the votes there?

lol i never considered her mechanically cleared because i thought it was weird she saved teh post in the first place.

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

I'm with Michelle.

why though, her suspicion is largely based on things she has simply misunderstood from his posts. they have just been talking past each other and misinterpreting every point, it's the most frustrating exchange I've ever had to read. can you explain what you're seeing here because I think it's an unproductive town/town argument

I just think she's a dog with a bone yno.

You gonna play or just comment on random shit?

I see now the context of my post lol

LOL

I want more spicy takes from mac. It's what I expect. It's not what I'm getting.

I mean I for one am really enjoying it and think the hosts have done a great job.

i am enjoying this game as well.

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine

What's your deal.

@Long Con
@Quin

Did ya’ll miss me? I haven’t seen you since I got back. Gimmie some #content.

I'd like some real content from you as well.
As I commented earlier-- once the numbers dwindled, you were forced to produce content that wasn't solely jokes.

You're slipping.
Why?

I think that's a terrible mistake.

Don't do that.

What do you think of sprityo?

@Long Con
@Quin

Did ya’ll miss me? I haven’t seen you since I got back. Gimmie some #content.

Soonish. I'll give you my catchup hot takes, still reading up. Epignosis - Evenstar took a turn when Epi decided she's not scum but is actually town, for the Four Reasons. I was seeing Ep as the Civ side of things there, but this turnaround could be a calculated pocketing ploy. LLD and Eva voting nutella is not that cool, nutella has looked very town over the days, and the timing of Eva's vote wasn't the best. 112 maybe sketchy. Michelle maybe sketchy.

It didn't work the first fucking time.

I am cackling at this.

I should make an Electoral College Mafia game where I ask players living in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania who should be lynched every day and ignore the actual vote count.

Hey! NEW HAMPSHIRE IS A SWING STATE !!! ! !!! ! !!! !!! !!!! !!! !!!!!!

[Dom]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

I don't know about Jack, but nah, not Epi.

[Long Con]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Epi-Eva w-w? Difficult to swallow. Much theatrics.

[nutella]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

I don't know about Jack, but nah, not Epi.

I am more concerned about Jack.

Still don't know why Epi voted for me though.

[Epignosis]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

nutella ISN'T Dragomir's teammate. Because she was one of the main, and earlier, proponents of his lynch.

I'm sorry you construed my vote as such.

I only voted nutella because she's a goober.

[nutella]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Epi-Eva w-w? Difficult to swallow. Much theatrics.

yeah. Jack hopping on after Epi did is ultra sus though.

[Long Con]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

nutella ISN'T Dragomir's teammate. Because she was one of the main, and earlier, proponents of his lynch.

I'm sorry you construed my vote as such.

I only voted nutella because she's a goober.

Hey man, votes are dangerous. They're not toys.

[nutella]

Again, can't we do this the old fashioned way?

Who is Dragomir's teammate?

Going about it any other way is an invitation to dickery.

nutella ISN'T Dragomir's teammate. Because she was one of the main, and earlier, proponents of his lynch.

I'm sorry you construed my vote as such.

I only voted nutella because she's a goober.

valid

[nutella]

Hey no that was good Epi, you baited Jack onto the wagon and he is now confirmed scum lol

[Dom]

Jack didn't produce much of substance until things boiled over on him in the lower dreams.
He stopped producing, buddied nutella and followed epi's vote on her with zero reasoning.

yuck

[Dom]

Jack
sprityo
eva
pawn
iaafr

there be baddies

[Dom]

People who have been around-- what's up with juliets?

[Long Con]

Hey no that was good Epi, you baited Jack onto the wagon and he is now confirmed scum lol

[Long Con]

Jack was also on Eva with little explanation, right?

[nutella]

Seriously though. If you guys would rather lynch jack than eva I'm game

[Epignosis]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Epi-Eva w-w? Difficult to swallow. Much theatrics.

yeah. Jack hopping on after Epi did is ultra sus though.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

Who threatens the subconscious mind?

Poll runs till Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:00 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.
You may select 1 option

112
0
No votes


Voters: None

ColinIsCool
0
No votes


Voters: None

Dom
0
No votes


Voters: None

Elephant
1
6%


Voters: Michelle

Epignosis
1
6%


Voters: Pawn Lelouch

Evenstar
3
17%


Voters: Dom, nutella, 112

Hyena
0
No votes


Voters: None

iaafr
0
No votes


Voters: None

Jackofhearts2005
0
No votes


Voters: None

juliets
0
No votes


Voters: None

Lady LambdaDelta
0
No votes


Voters: None

Long Con
0
No votes


Voters: None

MacDougall
0
No votes


Voters: None

Master Radishes
0
No votes


Voters: None

Michelle
1
6%


Voters: Elephant

nutella
4
22%


Voters: Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005, Lady LambdaDelta, Evenstar

Pawn Lelouch
0
No votes


Voters: None

Quin
0
No votes


Voters: None

sprityo
0
No votes


Voters: None

Trustworthy Liberal
3
17%


Voters: Long Con, Hyena, MacDougall

No vote / unvote
0
No votes


Voters: None

No Lynch
0
No votes


Voters: None

Host/non/dead option
5
28%


Voters: Creature, Sloonei, Benson, JaggedJimmyJay, speedchuck


Total votes: 18

[Long Con]

People who have been around-- what's up with juliets?

She's part of the Caffeine Crew - those of us who never went into a dream at all (assuming we're awake now, that is!). Widely townread, but I think much of that is based on some misread roleclaimy stuff that's difficult to parse due to it being illegal for her to confirm or deny. It got a little murky on that front, but I only wanted to lynch her for a little bit. I feel like I saw something else that made me say "she's town" but I forget what it was. Back before the thread collapsed.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

[Long Con]

Seriously though. If you guys would rather lynch jack than eva I'm game

I don't know if it's the Gifs, but this actually feels pretty good. I'm down. [VOTE: jack] aubergine

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

[Long Con]

I'll go back to TLib. [VOTE: TLIB] aubergine

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

Not at all. I was never seriously going to vote nutella. I saw she had a lead and wasn't going to let that gain momentum.

I do question her view on "Gotta be mafia among the three" nonsense, but I really can't fault her for that.

I think putting stock in that is dangerous.

It's akin to saying "The host has given you mafia from a one in three chance." JJJ would never do that. That's foolish. Move on.

[Long Con]

@Epignosis - I went off of your wagon because I figured I was tunnelling you for things that are probably just an odd town-meta considering the other long-time syndicaters are not as suspicious of you as I have been throughout the game.

I used to tunnel Epi every game.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

Not at all. I was never seriously going to vote nutella. I saw she had a lead and wasn't going to let that gain momentum.

I do question her view on "Gotta be mafia among the three" nonsense, but I really can't fault her for that.

I think putting stock in that is dangerous.

It's akin to saying "The host has given you mafia from a one in three chance." JJJ would never do that. That's foolish. Move on.

A one in three chance to what? The Mafia didn't win after the F3, but neither did the town.

[Epignosis]

Well, this is the first time I've ever seen this thread and it's 135 pages long, so, uh. Probably not going to read all that

Evenstar was considered nearly mechanically cleared at one point in a thread I was in so what's up with all the votes there?

Was this ever straightened out? I don't remember that happening, but it could have been a dream.

It's been discussed a fair amount. My personal theory is that Texas was the mason partner, and the mafia learned that from the janitored kill and used it to their advantage. Epi thinks that's far-fetched.

Well...I don't think that.

You know...

because...

Spoiler: show

It is far-fetched.

[Long Con]

yeah, jack, i am inclined to like you after an iso skim. we could settle our differences and towncore if you so want.

What was it about Jack's ISO that led you to this bold statement?

[Dom]

People who have been around-- what's up with juliets?

She's part of the Caffeine Crew - those of us who never went into a dream at all (assuming we're awake now, that is!). Widely townread, but I think much of that is based on some misread roleclaimy stuff that's difficult to parse due to it being illegal for her to confirm or deny. It got a little murky on that front, but I only wanted to lynch her for a little bit. I feel like I saw something else that made me say "she's town" but I forget what it was. Back before the thread collapsed.

I'd like to see more from her.

[Long Con]

Well, this is the first time I've ever seen this thread and it's 135 pages long, so, uh. Probably not going to read all that

Evenstar was considered nearly mechanically cleared at one point in a thread I was in so what's up with all the votes there?

Was this ever straightened out? I don't remember that happening, but it could have been a dream.

It's been discussed a fair amount. My personal theory is that Texas was the mason partner, and the mafia learned that from the janitored kill and used it to their advantage. Epi thinks that's far-fetched.

Well...I don't think that.

You know...

because...

Spoiler: show

It is far-fetched.

[Epignosis]

I would be fairly happy with an Elephant vote as well, because he instigated and perpetuated the vanity focus and I have some reason to believe he has been controlling in some other ways, potentially including pocketing juliets and taking advantage of her not only in order to make himself look good but in order to benefit the scum team in the long term.


I think TL may well be scum and would be the relatively "safe" poe shot based on GH's article; however I have townread his posts at face value, and his flip will not do much for us in solving other slots. We do need a scum flip and he may be a good bet, but I have reservations there and I think it it's probably a better choice at this point to lynch within the "F3" group and solve from there.

I agree with these thoughts.

What do we know about the F3? What happened down there? What did the host say? Was that Limbo? Epi is confident that the lynches weren't lynches, is that a legit idea? If they weren't lynches, what were they?

I know that went beyond a response to your post.

There were three people there.

All three people are here, right?

Ergo, it wasn't a lynch.

Holy shit come on.

[Epignosis]

Even putting the theme aside, it doesn’t make any sense to have half the players just have votes that didn’t matter for long periods of time. This isn’t Electoral College Mafia.

Votes matter now.

[Long Con]

People who have been around-- what's up with juliets?

She's part of the Caffeine Crew - those of us who never went into a dream at all (assuming we're awake now, that is!). Widely townread, but I think much of that is based on some misread roleclaimy stuff that's difficult to parse due to it being illegal for her to confirm or deny. It got a little murky on that front, but I only wanted to lynch her for a little bit. I feel like I saw something else that made me say "she's town" but I forget what it was. Back before the thread collapsed.

I'd like to see more from her.

She spent a lot of time organizing the votes for everybody to use in vote research. vanity had issue with the way she seemed to sheep/copy Elephant's post, but that was intentional on her part.

[Epignosis]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Hell goddamn no.

[Long Con]

I would be fairly happy with an Elephant vote as well, because he instigated and perpetuated the vanity focus and I have some reason to believe he has been controlling in some other ways, potentially including pocketing juliets and taking advantage of her not only in order to make himself look good but in order to benefit the scum team in the long term.


I think TL may well be scum and would be the relatively "safe" poe shot based on GH's article; however I have townread his posts at face value, and his flip will not do much for us in solving other slots. We do need a scum flip and he may be a good bet, but I have reservations there and I think it it's probably a better choice at this point to lynch within the "F3" group and solve from there.

I agree with these thoughts.

What do we know about the F3? What happened down there? What did the host say? Was that Limbo? Epi is confident that the lynches weren't lynches, is that a legit idea? If they weren't lynches, what were they?

I know that went beyond a response to your post.

There were three people there.

All three people are here, right?

Ergo, it wasn't a lynch.

Holy shit come on.

But, like, you've seen the movie, right? Lynches are death. Death in a dream wakes you up.

[Long Con]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Hell goddamn no.

Strong words... but you townread Eva now, don't you?

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis - I went off of your wagon because I figured I was tunnelling you for things that are probably just an odd town-meta considering the other long-time syndicaters are not as suspicious of you as I have been throughout the game.

I used to tunnel Epi every game.

My dickbutt has never recovered.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

Not at all. I was never seriously going to vote nutella. I saw she had a lead and wasn't going to let that gain momentum.

I do question her view on "Gotta be mafia among the three" nonsense, but I really can't fault her for that.

I think putting stock in that is dangerous.

It's akin to saying "The host has given you mafia from a one in three chance." JJJ would never do that. That's foolish. Move on.

A one in three chance to what? The Mafia didn't win after the F3, but neither did the town.

That's my point. Nobody won. Move on.

[Epignosis]

I would be fairly happy with an Elephant vote as well, because he instigated and perpetuated the vanity focus and I have some reason to believe he has been controlling in some other ways, potentially including pocketing juliets and taking advantage of her not only in order to make himself look good but in order to benefit the scum team in the long term.


I think TL may well be scum and would be the relatively "safe" poe shot based on GH's article; however I have townread his posts at face value, and his flip will not do much for us in solving other slots. We do need a scum flip and he may be a good bet, but I have reservations there and I think it it's probably a better choice at this point to lynch within the "F3" group and solve from there.

I agree with these thoughts.

What do we know about the F3? What happened down there? What did the host say? Was that Limbo? Epi is confident that the lynches weren't lynches, is that a legit idea? If they weren't lynches, what were they?

I know that went beyond a response to your post.

There were three people there.

All three people are here, right?

Ergo, it wasn't a lynch.

Holy shit come on.

But, like, you've seen the movie, right? Lynches are death. Death in a dream wakes you up.

I saw it once but was drunk and only remember the visuals.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

Not at all. I was never seriously going to vote nutella. I saw she had a lead and wasn't going to let that gain momentum.

I do question her view on "Gotta be mafia among the three" nonsense, but I really can't fault her for that.

I think putting stock in that is dangerous.

It's akin to saying "The host has given you mafia from a one in three chance." JJJ would never do that. That's foolish. Move on.

A one in three chance to what? The Mafia didn't win after the F3, but neither did the town.

That's my point. Nobody won. Move on.

It might not really be as "bastard" as people are saying. Imagine a host, just for one day, taking three players and saying "you can only vote for each other today". Gives them a chance to focus and work each other out whether they're all Civ or not. Not easy, but not bastard.

[Epignosis]

Epi and Jack were townreading me but have jumped on my wagon with little to no explanation. Trying to save Eva??

Hell goddamn no.

Strong words... but you townread Eva now, don't you?

If I vote for Evenstar, it's out of spite.

Spite doesn't win mafia games, and I wish some of this visiting crew understood that.

My own view of Evenstar- one coming from sobriety and thoughtfulness- is that lynching her is stupid.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine to keep nutella out of the lead just in case bullshit.

Aw geez. Sorry. You think the day is ending early or something?

Not at all. I was never seriously going to vote nutella. I saw she had a lead and wasn't going to let that gain momentum.

I do question her view on "Gotta be mafia among the three" nonsense, but I really can't fault her for that.

I think putting stock in that is dangerous.

It's akin to saying "The host has given you mafia from a one in three chance." JJJ would never do that. That's foolish. Move on.

A one in three chance to what? The Mafia didn't win after the F3, but neither did the town.

That's my point. Nobody won. Move on.

It might not really be as "bastard" as people are saying. Imagine a host, just for one day, taking three players and saying "you can only vote for each other today". Gives them a chance to focus and work each other out whether they're all Civ or not. Not easy, but not bastard.

Does it matter?

We have this phase with one mafia member lynched, and everyone is talking about the goddamned mechanics and not talking about the dead mafioso. What the hell?

[Epignosis]

Someone please tell me how Trustworthy Liberal is Dragomir's partner.