Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[Dom]

...I'd like to have a nice discourse about Jay v Turnip.

They both sound yucky.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing I will grant with Turnip Head is that my mindset may be at least in part a product of process of elimination -- if it's not him, then who?

I think the following people could be Mac teammates at least to the extent of a shrug, in that I don't overtly read them as civilians and cannot dissociate them confidently from Mac:

ColinIsCool
Epignosis
Michelle
speedchuck
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq
Turnip Head

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could consider ted. I'll need to dig deeper.

[Dom]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

[Sloonei]

i voted for sig

[Dom]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

Expand

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Obvious sig vote is obvious

I likely won’t be talking much during this day, due to a combination of being extremely busy getting ready for a trip on Wednesday and a firm belief that talking more only helps the scum team when the TK is decided.

[Turnip Head]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

[nutella]

Very sorry for contributing my voice to the sprityo push -- toward the end I was believing in his townieness again but couldn't say anything (I echo something jack said earlier about how he felt about it) -- just unfortunate.

The thing about ted implying that sprit might have checked him (which now it seems he probably didn't) was p sketchy and when it was pointed out that there is a scum role (not to mention also the 3p) that appears innocent to role checkers, he reacted kinda oddly which makes me think he might be guilty.

I think G-Man, speed, nanook, and Epi are most likely town (roughly in that order of most confidence to least). Dom is almost certainly town. Jack is basically a lock town in my head, so many mindmelds.

I think one of Jay or TH is on master team with how the two are going after each other and I am leaning Jay is the wolf and TH is the bait that Jay has decided to latch onto as an easy scapegoat.

I think juliets is probably town even if jay is scum, maybe especially if jay is scum lol with how much he is leaning on her townieness it's almost like pocketing/could be tmi based.


Tony, Colin, Michelle, Tranq, and Sloonei are wildcards..... which, looking to the numbers and the poe I have going here, means probably ~3 of them are scum. I remember I had reasons to suspect both Tony and Sloonei as Mac teammates, while I believe some people had arguments for Michelle being antimonitor. Tranq and Colin are both pretty null.

So my current bets are Jay and two of Ted/Tony/Sloonei on the master team, and let's say Michelle antimonitor. Also there's one other 3p somewhere that nobody has really thought about lol.

Tldr roughly tiered rainbow

Jack
Dom
-
Gman
juliets
-
TH
speed
nanook
Epi
-
Colin
Tranq
-
Sloonei
Tony
Michelle
-
Ted
Jay

I was wrong but my read looks and feels authentic, you even said so yourself earlier. It wasn't until Mac actually flipped that you've now started calling my reads "disingenuous" and considering my contributions to be "nothing". I will pull your quotes if I have to. I can see now that you were being opportunistic at the time when you called my read of him authentic, and you are being opportunistic again after his flip, calling my reads "disingenuous" and "nothing".
You're taking advantage of my reads
when
they
suit
your
agenda

You are Mac's actual teammate, I'm the unwitting pawn on your chessboard.

He hadn't flipped yet = turnip's reads look real and good
After Mac flips = I hate all of turnip's read, bullet point by bullet point

Yeah I like this. I think Jay is likely Mac's teammate going after the easy TH bait. Jay's change of heart and "case" on TH is pretty convenient and feels disingenuous. I'm in favor of lynching Jay. Jay vs TH counter wagons may be very interesting and enlightening indeed.

Shit I mean, after you get rid of sig, ugh I keep forgetting that still has to happen today.

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

Wow bad and wrong and fake opinion tbh.



Listen to your friendly neighborhood ghost's spicy uninformed opinions, even if they're sometimes wrong Lynch Jay I mean, after sig, lol >_>

[speedchuck]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

*snort*

[speedchuck]

Yeah Jay and TH are not town/town.

[speedchuck]

Tldr roughly tiered rainbow

Jack
Dom
-
Gman
juliets
-
TH
speed
nanook
Epi
-
Colin
Tranq
-
Sloonei
Tony
Michelle
-
Ted
Jay

This whole f**king rainbow is red.

[Jackofhearts2005]

...I'd like to have a nice discourse about Jay v Turnip.

They both sound yucky.

This.

As an aside, can I say how much I dislike being green peeked? Like my specialty is being in the right rang off suspicious that I don’t get nightkilled, evaluating pushes against me and not getting lynched. A green peek eliminates the first two and is a duplication of the third.

Like imo don’t peek obvious townies or wolves. Peek players you have no fucking clue what side they’re on.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Turnip Head on MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

@Turnip Head can you extrapolate on your Dom/Nutella worldview please?

I mean I could, but I'm sure it could be refuted by logic and big brains

When I am bad, I tend to try to make a big case and a big splash early to distract from lurking teammates, but I am an outlier. Most people don't do this. Of the people making big splashy cases, I found Mac the most suspish. He is also an outlier in general, and I saw him do something like it when he was bad when I hosted the Champs game with TH several years ago; make a big splashy play. @Turnip Head,do you recall this? It was end game, though, so not exactly the same, I was thinking more of his thread play.

I remember Mac being a hilariously evil genius in that game, but not the specific play you're referring to

Townish people:
G-man
Turnip (?)
Juliets (?)
Nook (?)
Ted (?)
Sig?

Scum:
Almost everyone else?

Jack town
Mac town
Jimmy town
Dom town

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

Because there are two scum teams

Mac is town, this quote is exhibit A

What's up?

We're rescuing Mac from getting wreckt

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

idgi

you said essentially the same thing one post before mine (I got caught in linki), so I think you do get it...

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine I don't like his unwavering suspicion of Mac and I especially don't like his reasoning re: Mac's changing opinion of Nutella

Does anyone know how many toes MacDougall has? This is important to my read of him. He may not even be able to wear civ shoes.

For real though Mac is clearly town and anyone who can't see that is not trying hard enough

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Because we're soulmates

I am a sorcerer and each day I say “Abrica-fucking-dabra, Kalamazoo, I’m gonna make a rabbit out of you!” and nothing happens it will become more obvious.

Really? That's neat.

Really cool. Goes nowhere

The case on Mac is top notch cringe mainly driven by Sig's woman scorned persona

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I appreciate his existence and would prefer it to continue

What if he just lived on as a ghost for a little bit

He also compared you to g-man as if that's his pet vote

I don't follow your point here?

Like why would a civ bother doing that. He's setting up a "suspicion" in the same breath as "defending" you

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

This is a fun take. In a world where Mac isn't on the Master team I could entertain a world where Ted is. Also yeah I feel like we haven't heard from him in a while.

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

Okay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.

Mr. Stark I know you're a billionaire Playboy genius but there's two mafia teams...

TonyStarkPrime
Yes because Ted is bad and unsure if Mac is on the other team, but leaning towards him not being in the other tean

@Turnip Head
I see you why not switch to Mac?

Tell me why your voting me vs him?

Mac is town and you're maybe town. The thread seems convinced that you're both bad, if I had my way we'd be lynching Ted or pressuring jack

Gripes, starting with colored stuff:

Yellow: TH isn't merely defending Mac, they're telling us what Mac's instincts are. How should they know? That looks bogus to me.

Orange: TH's read on Mac is standout; the language they used and confidence they expressed were one of a kind in his posts. And there's close to nothing to justify that confidence. What follows is as much as there was:

Burnt orange: The read is heavily predicated upon Mac's flip of his nutella read. First of all, the entire premise that this is something mafia don't do is just balogna. Of course they do that. They do it all the time. Second, assigning that assessment to MacDougall of all people is additionally hard to believe. Mac is capable of just about anything, and one needn't play many games with him to determine that. Third, even if one accepts the premise that this was a "good look", it makes no sense to me for the look to be so good that Mac is rendered beyond reproach.

The read looks fake to me.

I was wrong but my read looks and feels authentic, you even said so yourself earlier. It wasn't until Mac actually flipped that you've now started calling my reads "disingenuous" and considering my contributions to be "nothing". I will pull your quotes if I have to. I can see now that you were being opportunistic at the time when you called my read of him authentic, and you are being opportunistic again after his flip, calling my reads "disingenuous" and "nothing".
You're taking advantage of my reads
when
they
suit
your
agenda

You are Mac's actual teammate, I'm the unwitting pawn on your chessboard.

He hadn't flipped yet = turnip's reads look real and good
After Mac flips = I hate all of turnip's read, bullet point by bullet point

Pull the quotes.

I'm very inclined to believe you over Jay if you show your work.

[Jackofhearts2005]

One thing I will grant with Turnip Head is that my mindset may be at least in part a product of process of elimination -- if it's not him, then who?

I think the following people could be Mac teammates at least to the extent of a shrug, in that I don't overtly read them as civilians and cannot dissociate them confidently from Mac:

ColinIsCool
Epignosis
Michelle
speedchuck
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq
Turnip Head

It's not process of elimination if you have 7 suspects.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hero play and lynch Jay instead of Sig.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing I will grant with Turnip Head is that my mindset may be at least in part a product of process of elimination -- if it's not him, then who?

I think the following people could be Mac teammates at least to the extent of a shrug, in that I don't overtly read them as civilians and cannot dissociate them confidently from Mac:

ColinIsCool
Epignosis
Michelle
speedchuck
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq
Turnip Head

It's not process of elimination if you have 7 suspects.

The point is that if I remove TH from that group, I'm left with 3 of 6 with a bunch of default options (people that could work, but drawing a confident connection is a tall order) like Tranq or Tony. It amounts to shrugging.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

Expand

I can't remember posts from him that made me feel like he is innocent. He has floated around and amounted to next to no production or memorable anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: sig ] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] tell me about that vote

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] what is your read on me?

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

I can’t get a grasp on Jack. It makes me uncomfortable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

Cool. Can you try to expand to some degree on the poorly formed idea?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don’t feel comfortable with anyone. Except Epi.
So why is Epi town?
Because why not?
There’s no one I feel has adequately separated themselves from scum enough on interaction to avoid suspicion, and outside of interaction my instinct trigger is that Epi is good. That’s all.
Dom can be good too.
Jack can be good but I don’t like that I can’t feel it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

I can’t get a grasp on Jack. It makes me uncomfortable.

I doubt he's Mac's teammate. The anti-monitor team is plausible; I think he looks generally authentic though.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei what is your read on me?

town

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei what is your read on me?

town

I feel like we've been less connected in this game than in games past. I grant that we've both had less time to be here for whatever reasons.

What do you think of Epignosis?

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

Cool. Can you try to expand to some degree on the poorly formed idea?

Day 4 I would have advocated hard for the lynch Sig plan. I did, to some extent, in our three person bubble. Today I think that we’re perhaps better off searching elsewhere — for two main reasons:
1) Three townies just died. With a missed Night 5 kill and then a likely Day 6 AM lynch (since the masters team knows who AM is, I think), we’re at 10v3 going into day 7 with no leads. With a good Night 5 kill, 11v2. I think we can pull off better than that with other options.
2) I don’t want this day to go nowhere.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei what is your read on me?

town

I feel like we've been less connected in this game than in games past. I grant that we've both had less time to be here for whatever reasons.

What do you think of Epignosis?

I do not have a firm read on him. I haven't given him much attention.

[Sloonei]

I plan on doing things tomorrow. I should have clearer reads then.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@TonyStarkPrime tell me about that vote

That was the first “not Sig” candidate vote. It’s representative of an idea, and a poorly formed one.

I can’t get a grasp on Jack. It makes me uncomfortable.

I could be a godfather.

[Sloonei]

I have noticed a specific trend in past games in which I've caught mafia epi. I have not observed that trend in this game, but I haven't looked very closely at him either.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 4 I would have advocated hard for the lynch Sig plan. I did, to some extent, in our three person bubble. Today I think that we’re perhaps better off searching elsewhere — for two main reasons:
1) Three townies just died. With a missed Night 5 kill and then a likely Day 6 AM lynch (since the masters team knows who AM is, I think), we’re at 10v3 going into day 7 with no leads. With a good Night 5 kill, 11v2. I think we can pull off better than that with other options.
2) I don’t want this day to go nowhere.

I don't necessarily disagree with your strategic perspective. I'm lynching sig anyway to eliminate his role. I was referring to the idea underlying your vote for Turnip Head instead of [insert some other non-sig player here].

[TonyStarkPrime]

As an aside, I don’t feel as comfortable in bigger games. Now that we’re down to 17, this is more manageable, but it’s still a lot to keep track of.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

Do you think juliets is bad?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Cause then you wouldn't be so suspicious of him.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Day 4 I would have advocated hard for the lynch Sig plan. I did, to some extent, in our three person bubble. Today I think that we’re perhaps better off searching elsewhere — for two main reasons:
1) Three townies just died. With a missed Night 5 kill and then a likely Day 6 AM lynch (since the masters team knows who AM is, I think), we’re at 10v3 going into day 7 with no leads. With a good Night 5 kill, 11v2. I think we can pull off better than that with other options.
2) I don’t want this day to go nowhere.

I don't necessarily disagree with your strategic perspective. I'm lynching sig anyway to eliminate his role. I was referring to the idea underlying your vote for Turnip Head instead of [insert some other non-sig player here].

first option that came to mind. It’s not instinct, it’s a “this person has been talked about as possible scum”. No other reason. Instinct would be pointed at Sloonei still.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

Do you think juliets is bad?

Tbd.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Cause then you wouldn't be so suspicious of him.

One of your biggest blind spots as a player is your inability to view the suspicions of your suspects through an objective lens. You suspect me. Great, wonderful, super. Tell me why Epignosis isn't Mac's teammate. I am literally asking for your perspective here. Maybe I'll agree with it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

Do you think juliets is bad?

Tbd.

Then you're probably the anti-monitor.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Is it likely that AM used both night kill protections?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], thoughts please

[Jackofhearts2005]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

Do you think juliets is bad?

Tbd.

Then you're probably the anti-monitor.

K. Push me.

[Dom]

Jay-- put Turnip and sig aside.
Who do we lynch?

Gun to my head lynch choice: speedchuck

Expand

I can't remember posts from him that made me feel like he is innocent. He has floated around and amounted to next to no production or memorable anything.

...what game are you trying to solve?
It isn't this one.

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

K. Push me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

...what game are you trying to solve?
It isn't this one.

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

I suspect more than one player.