Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[TonyStarkPrime]

The unfortunate thing is that the only reports we can get about what went on in that level come from a confirmed and outed mafioso sig and the two players in question. Tony spoke a little bit about Tranq in the lower level, but it was empty. He gave Tranq a little credit for putting in effort down there, whatever that means.

the day was empty — he just showed that he had been tracking. Which I said

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

[speedchuck]

Also speedchuck, it feels like you are trying to dissuade me from speculating based on what we know about Jack. Why would you want to do that? We should all be throwing out thoughts based on whatever we have, our gut, our thoughts about a dead person, thread evidence, whatever to try and solve - at least those of us who are civs should be.

That is exactly what I'm doing.

I caught Sig trying to justify his vote on nutella with extra reasons that weren't likely (or needed) on D1. That's an observation I can and will make now. I'm not trying to shut you down, nor will I be shut down by whatever this indignant response is.

[TonyStarkPrime]

No we don’t want to kill the AM today.
I swear if the masters team has the take five bomb

[juliets]

Also speedchuck, it feels like you are trying to dissuade me from speculating based on what we know about Jack. Why would you want to do that? We should all be throwing out thoughts based on whatever we have, our gut, our thoughts about a dead person, thread evidence, whatever to try and solve - at least those of us who are civs should be.

That is exactly what I'm doing.

I caught Sig trying to justify his vote on nutella with extra reasons that weren't likely (or needed) on D1. That's an observation I can and will make now. I'm not trying to shut you down, nor will I be shut down by whatever this indignant response is.

The way I read your post is that my thoughts are bullshit. Maybe you did not intend to convey that but that's what I read. I do not want to shut you down.

[juliets]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

Tony, can you talk about what you are thinking here?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

Tony, can you talk about what you are thinking here?

I changed my mind on Epi.
I don’t think JJJ is scum. Why? Simple — going for me and Tranq is a pretty crazy last day play.
He could just be doing it to keep his teammate safe, but then I assume he’d be going hard after the Anti Monitor.

[juliets]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

Tony, can you talk about what you are thinking here?

I changed my mind on Epi.
I don’t think JJJ is scum. Why? Simple — going for me and Tranq is a pretty crazy last day play.
He could just be doing it to keep his teammate safe, but then I assume he’d be going hard after the Anti Monitor.

Hmm. I hadn't thought about it that way. It does seem like he'd be going after the Anti-Monitor on his last day. Are you thinking Epi is the AM and that's why you don't want to go for him today?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

Tony, can you talk about what you are thinking here?

I changed my mind on Epi.
I don’t think JJJ is scum. Why? Simple — going for me and Tranq is a pretty crazy last day play.
He could just be doing it to keep his teammate safe, but then I assume he’d be going hard after the Anti Monitor.

Hmm. I hadn't thought about it that way. It does seem like he'd be going after the Anti-Monitor on his last day. Are you thinking Epi is the AM and that's why you don't want to go for him today?

I have no clue who the anti monitor is. I think if we spent a good two hours on it it would become evident, but the gap for a town win requires something from the masters for that — they have to flub a kill or reveal a member or something. They should be more scared of the AM than we are, so it’s not my job to worry about it.

[speedchuck]

Also speedchuck, it feels like you are trying to dissuade me from speculating based on what we know about Jack. Why would you want to do that? We should all be throwing out thoughts based on whatever we have, our gut, our thoughts about a dead person, thread evidence, whatever to try and solve - at least those of us who are civs should be.

That is exactly what I'm doing.

I caught Sig trying to justify his vote on nutella with extra reasons that weren't likely (or needed) on D1. That's an observation I can and will make now. I'm not trying to shut you down, nor will I be shut down by whatever this indignant response is.

The way I read your post is that my thoughts are bullshit. Maybe you did not intend to convey that but that's what I read. I do not want to shut you down.

No, that is not what I was saying. It was you connecting the role Jack had to your changed vote, that I felt was overdoing it. As with sig, I suspect that kind of behavior.

[juliets]

Also speedchuck, it feels like you are trying to dissuade me from speculating based on what we know about Jack. Why would you want to do that? We should all be throwing out thoughts based on whatever we have, our gut, our thoughts about a dead person, thread evidence, whatever to try and solve - at least those of us who are civs should be.

That is exactly what I'm doing.

I caught Sig trying to justify his vote on nutella with extra reasons that weren't likely (or needed) on D1. That's an observation I can and will make now. I'm not trying to shut you down, nor will I be shut down by whatever this indignant response is.

The way I read your post is that my thoughts are bullshit. Maybe you did not intend to convey that but that's what I read. I do not want to shut you down.

No, that is not what I was saying. It was you connecting the role Jack had to your changed vote, that I felt was overdoing it. As with sig, I suspect that kind of behavior.

Ok I see now. Jay's AtE last night was the more important factor in driving my vote today because you made that point about Jay's AtE in Phenom when he was bad and it saved him. The Jack thing this morning was the final nail. But now Tony has me thinking. I need to do those ISOs.

Be back in a couple of hours.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] talk to me about Tranq immediately

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I’d rather vote for Epi maybe

Tony, can you talk about what you are thinking here?

I changed my mind on Epi.
I don’t think JJJ is scum. Why? Simple — going for me and Tranq is a pretty crazy last day play.
He could just be doing it to keep his teammate safe, but then I assume he’d be going hard after the Anti Monitor.

What precisely did you change your mind about regarding Epi?

The highlighted thing looks like hot bullshit. I see no reason why that should eliminate me in the eyes of anyone who entered the day ready to murder me. This is TMI much like Sloonei exhibited last day phase.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I believe the kids would say that the "wolves are howling". It'll be real nice if my death proves irrelevant. Y'all Masters should have lynched me before G-Man.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok I see now. Jay's AtE last night was the more important factor in driving my vote today because you made that point about Jay's AtE in Phenom when he was bad and it saved him. The Jack thing this morning was the final nail. But now Tony has me thinking. I need to do those ISOs.

Be back in a couple of hours.

I'm annoyed when this "AtE" thing is described as something that I do. speedchuck has an emotion-driven interpretation because of how that game impacted him, but I want to make it clear what that actually was: it's all on this page. I was "Bravo", currently on the sock named "Marmot." The point then was to look like a desperate civilian, not to cry and gush and "appeal to emotion". Interpret as you like and compare however you may with the present game. I don't agree with the portrayal and it bugs me when I keep seeing it game after game.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Tranq immediately

No read. Slight negative on numbers alone. But I’m willing to trust your judgment absent something else

[TonyStarkPrime]

I believe the kids would say that the "wolves are howling". It'll be real nice if my death proves irrelevant. Y'all Masters should have lynched me before G-Man.

how do you know they weren’t trying

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I believe the kids would say that the "wolves are howling". It'll be real nice if my death proves irrelevant. Y'all Masters should have lynched me before G-Man.

how do you know they weren’t trying

Because Sloonei was my best friend.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Tranq immediately

No read. Slight negative on numbers alone. But I’m willing to trust your judgment absent something else

F-

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Tranq[/mention], talk to me about TonyStarkPrime immediately

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What precisely did you change your mind about regarding Epi?

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention]

[TonyStarkPrime]

What precisely did you change your mind about regarding Epi?

TonyStarkPrime

About 12 seconds before I said maybe I’ll vote for Epi and then I changed it back 12 seconds after

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ted

Juliets

Which is which?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Discuss

[Michelle]

Ok. So Jay is wolf based on behaviour and you suspect Sloonei as his team mate.
These were exactly my town reads and now I have to change them to trust you.

Talk to me about everyone please. I have to read few pages and I should return to reread, I dropped that because I worked yesterday and I am sorry.

@Michelle @juliets @Sloonei @tedxtr

Like look at the things Jay says and ask yourself

"Is this a player who is getting fooled left and right and is about to lose the game after his teammate basically gave the whole team the middle finger or is this a player that is trying to push the next mislynch/antispew?"

Because I'm seeing Juliets being upset. I'm seeing Michelle being upset. I'm seeing Speed being upset. Maybe those things are faked but Jay's throwing out smiley emojis and giving life advice like everything's going according to plan. Cause it is. Cause he's a wolf and he can't help it.

I don't know how to be any more convincing than this. It's right in front of your faces. Probably two of you have alignment reasons to not listen but the other two of you ought to.

I am thinking at the 3 townies who litteraly gave up and the last one threw the game for a reason I don't understand.
I can't see a good part in JJJ now. Not at all.

All that he says is fitting a wolf profile from what i learned from my mentor. It's interesting how Jack used similar words without knowing this.

Jay putting my name in orange and working with a fake Poe is a bad thing. He is not teamworking with any villager, he is dictating reads. It would be sad to be a villager with this kind of behaviour.

Whoa nellie that's a quick change of heart.

I think I explained it. Also it implies a thing you hate, called emotion.

If you notice the hours the first message is on "Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:28 am" and the second is on "Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:10 am" The difference of almost 20 hours it's not a quick change of heart. It was almost all the hight phase.
The hours are my time, GMT+2.

After a deep disappointment of having the 3rd mislynch in a row I argued with Jack about the townreads I had at the beggining of the night phase. When I woke up the next day, I remembered the Sod at 5 am and I came here to play. I wasn't very active overnight, because from time to time I need a pause.
Jay was very active and reading his "updated" reads I thought they are not natural made reads like a villager makes, and Jack quoted all the posts to explain his mind and I felt he is right, both things going to my reaction and change of reads.
Why I don't believe that Jay forgot about my meta? Because I questioned his way of solving in that game, and no one likes such thing, idk how to explain it in english but from the way we interacted in that game i think he should remember me.

[Tranq]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

Read Jack's last couple of pages, Tony. It's very likely Jack tracked Jay and caught him killing someone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i think he should remember me.

I don't. Sorry pal. I have a vague idea of what your posts look like when you play, but I couldn't describe your meta with any specificity or precision. You've a way of blending by nature, and there honestly may be language barrier involved.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

Read Jack's last couple of pages, Tony. It's very likely Jack tracked Jay and caught him killing someone.

As useless as this will be coming from me:

I can unequivocally guarantee this did not happen.

[juliets]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

And me.

[juliets]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

I'm not sure what you're saying I am but you are wrong. And what is Dizzy?

[juliets]

Ok I see now. Jay's AtE last night was the more important factor in driving my vote today because you made that point about Jay's AtE in Phenom when he was bad and it saved him. The Jack thing this morning was the final nail. But now Tony has me thinking. I need to do those ISOs.

Be back in a couple of hours.

I'm annoyed when this "AtE" thing is described as something that I do. speedchuck has an emotion-driven interpretation because of how that game impacted him, but I want to make it clear what that actually was: it's all on this page. I was "Bravo", currently on the sock named "Marmot." The point then was to look like a desperate civilian, not to cry and gush and "appeal to emotion". Interpret as you like and compare however you may with the present game. I don't agree with the portrayal and it bugs me when I keep seeing it game after game.

Ok, maybe it shouldn't have been called AtE. Let me just describe what I thought I saw - "Woe is me, I have tried hard and done well but I'm being walked to the gallows. Poor me." It just didn't strike me as a Jay thing to say. Maybe I'm wrong about that and I just can't remember you posting like that in other games. It made my stomach sink when I read it, so you could call it a gut response.

I don't know what to make of Tony's read on you but I know he's dead wrong about me so I have to keep that in mind when considering his views.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sloonei on speedchuck

Spoiler: show

Mint chocolate chip is thin mints in ice cream form. Why on god’s minty green earth would anyone dislike that?

Thin Mints are nasty.

This also does not compute.

SVS asked what I think of speedchuck. I think nothing of speedchuck yet, so let's fix that.

Mint chocolate chip is thin mints in ice cream form. Why on god’s minty green earth would anyone dislike that?

Thin Mints are nasty.

Horrendous opinion, but NAI.

speedchuck. What are you doing speedchuck. What's going on with these seven posts of yours, speedchuck.

Not a whole lot. What's going on with your

*checks*

59 why the hell.

His first on-topic post is nothing.

I would rather vote nutella than jack, because nutella will start scumreading me any minute now.

His second is similarly nothing.

Like Nutella is playing what I would expect from her if she tried really hard to mimic her town game.

Or she’s just town.

Like she’s hitting her scumtell a and her towntells.

This seems to be the epicenter of the Jacktella quake. I am brought to wonder:

How do we (we who know nutella) anticipate her to respond to a post like this, where is she is told she is playing to her norms in both alignments? This is an accusation from Jack after all, even if "softened" by the town half of the presentation. I'm not surprised nutella called it garbage, or that she wondered aloud if a mafioso Jack would be so obvious as to openly hedge in this manner.

Is that where it started? Did he push any harder?

Because I'd be surprised to see nutella offended by this cushy push. More like 'meh' and 'jack do you even have an opinion'

This is his most recent post. I'd like to see it followed up on. I can't draw any conclusions from this, or from anything in speedchuck's ISO (except that he doesn't like thin mints). Underwhelming sure, but nothing in here that makes me want to vote for him. speedchuck is a player who will contribute when he's able regardless of alignment.

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I’m still sick and my head still hurts, so I probably won’t have a ton to say today again. This sucks.

I have an actual case against Radishes. I’ll post it if I find the energy. I have some things to say about speedchuck too. Saying those things requires less energy.

on closer inspection of speed, my thoughts haven't changed much: he's given us very little to work with, focusing on a limited range of topics. I do not fault him for that given his limited availability. There's nothing that makes me read him one way or the other. I would not campaign for his lynch.

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

What do you think about sloonei's point from a few posts ago?

Ah, didn't see that post. I can see it.

I've also said the same thing myself several times as town [citation needed but I think I have]. I might could do it this game, but I wouldn't have time to follow up if someone DID tell me what to do!

Some part of me realizes that not much good comes from 'tell me what to do' though, so I do see it now.
Is that why everyone is voting there? For a point that was made only after everyone already voted there?

It’s one of the reasons my vote has been on him.

Another is that his reads have been weak and none of them are sticking anywhere. Caveat to that is that he doesn’t know any of us, but I feel like his efforts to develop reads (see above) have been flat too.

speedchuck gripes

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

i n t e r e s t i n g

Seriously though, chuck termed the Jacktella thing as interesting and specifically referenced tedxtr as a source of that intrigue -- without providing any actual take or stance. I don't know what the point of this observation is.

Spoiler: show

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

chuck sharted on both the Radish and nutella wagons before engaging himself in the concurrent dialogues. At face value, I think this post looks fake. He answered this accusation already. I'm not moved.

These are the two points that move me the most. speed's answer to my my "developed thoughts" question could have been written by pete buttigieg, and the strong denouncement of both wagons on a day where he's not indicated that he's heavily informed is kinda bogus, especially given that he immedaitely followed that up by shrugging in support of one of those two wagons.
I've yet to fully articulate my Radishes case. Maybe I should do that.

Bottom 5 posters:
Tranq
Dragomir
G-man
sabie
speedchuck

Colin is 6th and Michelle is just behind him. Tranq has been AWOL. Drago was, but appeared at the start of this phase. Neither of them have done anything.
I’m frankly surprised that speedchuck has more posts than sabie and G-man; I feel like those latter two have been bigger presences in the thread.

Cross kills

Makes sense.

But if we’re talking about “keeping a low profile”, I feel like Drago and Tranq don’t really fit; they’ve simply been absent (I think). G-man and speedchuck would be the names that better fit the model of “coasting”.

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads. Their votes are on people I would like to see lynched.

I got twenty minutes. Lets go.

Expand on this, mr chuck

ColinIsCool
Dyslexicon
Turnip Head
juliets
S~V~S
Epignosis
TonyStarkPrime
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr
sig
Dragomir
speedchuck
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

If anyone wants to actually get into some nitty gritty discussion I'm keen. If there are any reads here that are wtf let's talk.

Why is nanook in the same tier as speedchuck and drago?

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Disagree. I say stuff like that all the time.

idk what nanook is talking about here

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

I think the lack of speedchuck's content is a large part of it. I am used to him being a more prominent member of the town. I think that with players like speedchuck sometimes basic is the best way to read them. If he is not living up to the normal standards of contribution then it's probably because he has a non town agenda/is putting a lot of his content elsewhere (ie. scum chat).

I take speedchuck on his word when he says he's super busy. That doesn't tell me anything about his alignment though.

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

No, he is exactly who sig thought he was.

Then why isn't everyone like 'ltnch sig immediately'

Lynch sig immediately.

My theory was that the Inception mechanic was triggered by sig. He's a role from Inception/Inception mafia with *secrets* and he was going to get lynched today, so he had nothing to lose.

My tinfoil about michelle was that she came into our small thread having already collected a bunch of posts from speedchuck to cast suspicion against. If sig triggered the thread-split, his teammate would have been aware it was going to happen and could have taken time to prepare a case against a vulnerable player who they knew would be in their reduced pool of players.

There's a lot of Ifs in there, so it's not something that would determine my vote under ordinary circumstances, but this phase was not ordinary circumstances.

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

Bad Take

This is my Michelle theory, for those who were not in our thread yesterday:

When the day began, Michelle had compiled a long chain of posts from speedchuck from this thread (the one we are all currently posting in) which she used to push a suspicion against The Chuck (and she would later walk back a fair amount of this case in a way that might have been dishonest, but that's not my main issue).

Speedchuck was one of just five people that Michelle shared that thread with. He also had apparently been singled out as a suspect by her coming into that day. This seemed either convenient or coincidental to me.

Separately, I had a theory that the events of yesterday were triggered by sig, as his role (The Architect) is derived from Inception Mafia, it contains secrets, and he was almost a sure bet to be lynched that coming day, so there would be no better time for him to trigger the hypothetical Inception event in his role card. IF this is the case (and that is an enormous if), then there are two people who would have known that the thread split was coming: sig and sig's partner. In the original Inception Mafia game (which Jay and I co-hosted), the mafia team was allowed limited control over which players submerged onto each dream level.

If sig's partner was preparing to submerge into a lower dream level, they would likely want to take a player with them who they could use as a scapegoat for suspicion, or someone who is unlikely to cast suspicion on them in particular. speedchuck could conceivably be a viable candidate for both of those things. So the theory is this: Michelle, as sig's partner/the anti-monitor, was aware that she was going to submerge into a smaller thread, and brought speedchuck with her, having pre-planned an attack against him for that day.

There are holes in this theory that I acknowledge: given that there was only one lynch yesterday (the top level/player with the most votes across all three levels) there should not have been much urgency for Michelle to need a scapegoat like this; it's also not at all impossible that Michelle suspected speedchuck and wanted to ISO him, and it was purely coincidental that they ended up in the same thread together. But the fact that Michelle had singularly prepared to launch an investigation against speedchuck yesterday (I asked her if she had compiled posts on anybody else and she said no) and then ended up in the same small group as him stood out to me as a remarkable coincidence.

so the idea was put Speed and Michelle in Div 2 when Speed is already a popular lynch option and then hope that no one emerges from Div 1?

At the time I didn't know what the lynch mechanics looked like. Maybe she would have wanted a player to scapegoat down there just to be on the safe side. Then again, if Michelle is the anti-monitor and has a -2 vote on her, then the chances of her getting lynched in a 6 person thread are pretty slim to begin with.

We even got the votes to work out perfectly to test out the theory if the mechanics had been the same as Original Inception: 3 votes on Michelle and 2 on speedchuck. If Michelle was in fact the anti-monitor, speedchuck would have been our level's non-fatal lynch victim, and we would have been able to surmise that Michelle was the anti-monitor. But alas...

^that is more in response to speed’s reception of Jay just now than my own stuff, but all of it is applicable.

I’ve argued against town reads on myself as town before.

Why though.

Sometimes because I don’t want things about me to be misconstrued, other times because I want to get a better read on the person reading me.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine for poll management

daylight saving's got me all messed up. I feel like it should only be 5 right now but my clock says 7. We seem locked in on Colin vs. speedchuck at the moment. Has anyone come up with any new points on either of them that I might have missed? If we had to pivot to a third name (assuming TH is our secret lynch), who would it be?

@Sloonei please scan the most recent few posts from Colin and speed and report your impressions.

If I was going to pick one over the other based on the previous page alone, I'd choose speedchuck. Colin's posts don't say much, but his tone is reminiscent of all those times I've driven the train over him. speedchuck was a bit more aggressive in his self-defense and I didn't find any of it particularly inspiring. He bends and shrugs at a lot of points against him and his reads weren't tremendous.

Observers: Commence to comment.

I'm keen to lynch Colin. On that front, sure. I agree with your conclusion. One question:

You noted Colin agreeing with Dyslexicon about a point against Tony. You said you sought follow-up. Later you observed Colin's Day 2 vote for Tony and said you didn't know why he placed it. And lastly you mentioned that the "Tony stuff you were looking for" was vague.

Please expand on all of that. It looks disjointed to me, and at times I struggled to follow what you were saying in general within that case.

Colin didn't bother to interact with his suspects. That's a red flag. A vote doesn't mean anything to me, especially with more than one mafia. I was looking for Colin to parse his suspicion of Tony.

This is where I am. I'll read the rest after this in about an hour. And get roaring drunk. Again.

I feel like I just spoke this post into existence.
Talk to me about ted and speedchuck.

Actually maybe there was something to my Michelle theory. I see no harm in bringing it up again. Who the hell knows at this point?
For reference:

Spoiler: show

This is my Michelle theory, for those who were not in our thread yesterday:

When the day began, Michelle had compiled a long chain of posts from speedchuck from this thread (the one we are all currently posting in) which she used to push a suspicion against The Chuck (and she would later walk back a fair amount of this case in a way that might have been dishonest, but that's not my main issue).

Speedchuck was one of just five people that Michelle shared that thread with. He also had apparently been singled out as a suspect by her coming into that day. This seemed either convenient or coincidental to me.

Separately, I had a theory that the events of yesterday were triggered by sig, as his role (The Architect) is derived from Inception Mafia, it contains secrets, and he was almost a sure bet to be lynched that coming day, so there would be no better time for him to trigger the hypothetical Inception event in his role card. IF this is the case (and that is an enormous if), then there are two people who would have known that the thread split was coming: sig and sig's partner. In the original Inception Mafia game (which Jay and I co-hosted), the mafia team was allowed limited control over which players submerged onto each dream level.

If sig's partner was preparing to submerge into a lower dream level, they would likely want to take a player with them who they could use as a scapegoat for suspicion, or someone who is unlikely to cast suspicion on them in particular. speedchuck could conceivably be a viable candidate for both of those things. So the theory is this: Michelle, as sig's partner/the anti-monitor, was aware that she was going to submerge into a smaller thread, and brought speedchuck with her, having pre-planned an attack against him for that day.

There are holes in this theory that I acknowledge: given that there was only one lynch yesterday (the top level/player with the most votes across all three levels) there should not have been much urgency for Michelle to need a scapegoat like this; it's also not at all impossible that Michelle suspected speedchuck and wanted to ISO him, and it was purely coincidental that they ended up in the same thread together. But the fact that Michelle had singularly prepared to launch an investigation against speedchuck yesterday (I asked her if she had compiled posts on anybody else and she said no) and then ended up in the same small group as him stood out to me as a remarkable coincidence.

But if the theory is that the anti-monitor was on level 2, then this thread’s evidence points more to Jay or G-man, I think. Certainly not speedchuck, and I’d be shocked if it was juliets. Maybe it is her.

I cannot provide a good reason to remove speedchuck from the suspect pool. All I have there is a feeling that he's in a similar spot to Colin, and that he's the most likely bait in the poll at present.

On the flip side of this, yesterday boiled down to a choice between speedchuck and colin. Colin was chosen. It's not impossible that speed is town. But numbers are dwindling and there are confident town reads outside of him.

so I read the sloonei case and I still can't understand why he's making the leap that I'm scum and not just town, the evidence is circumstantial at best. Who's scum other than me sloonei?

Observe the rainbow. Two of the bottom names were wrong, so it is likely flawed somewhere. But you and speedchuck remain among the oranges. Epi and Tranq were difficult to place. I would not be totally shocked if one of the light greens was also bad. I think Tony would be my first choice among them, but that's based largely on my general skepticism toward him as a player.

If everyone has suspected speedchuck forever for every position why has he not been lynched yet?

This is a real question.

Yesterday was the first day he was really mentioned as a serious candidate in a thread that included the entire active roster.

If everyone has suspected speedchuck forever for every position why has he not been lynched yet?

This is a real question.

Yesterday was the first day he was really mentioned as a serious candidate in a thread that included the entire active roster.

sure. And JJJ pushed him and voted for Colin anyways. We talked more about Speed than Colin but Colin ended up lynched.

What's the best reason you can think of to town read speedchuck?

That’s a me thing, not a game thing. I’m still here and still trying to solve things, but my mafia energy isn’t at its peak.

I think the votes for you are wrong if the theory is that you are on Mac’s team. I think they have merit if the theory is that you’re the anti-monitor, but I don’t think that conversation is closed. Epi and Tony can be in the conversation too. Juliets and Jack are my tinfoils.

I think ted is a good bet to be on Mac’s team. Interactions, POE, and his behavior today all point to it.

Would you confidently state that speedchuck is not the anti-monitor?

Tell me more about the yellow thing.

I would not. But sabie had at least one post where she took a definitive stance against speedchuck, which does not align with her handling of the other two members of her team.

In my exchange earlier with ted, he did the old “act incredulous in the face of moderate pressure” routine and I wasn’t a fan.

What’s the best reason we have to town read speedchuck?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

There was no chance of me being lynched and two or three competing viable wagons at the time. Why was Sloonei the best vote?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

Why vote at all?

what

A vote for me on Day 2 meant nothing. G-man threw his vote away.

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

All it takes is one or two vocal civilians promoting a case and the wolves can start circling.

Who are the wolves on Jay’s wagon?

From most to least suspicious:
Speedchuck
Epi
Tranq
Tony
You

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

Could be. I sort of expected you to yell at me, at least with your Sloonei voice, about that out-of-nowhere read. So I'm probably right

I am yelling. Look how angry I am.

I don't see it as out-of-nowhere. I've been forced to reconsider my read on you. It makes sense to reconsider me as well. The POE is wrong if it includes me, and you may be fully aware of that. Walk me through why speedchuck can't be bad.

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

So you think he is the Anti-Monitor or just faking it? It doesn't sound fake to me but what do I know.

I doubt it was faked. Even without knowing speedchuck has a specific objection to emotional pleas, he doesn't seem like the type to say unkind things for the sake of scoring points in a game. But given the situation right now I'm not totally willing to dismiss him as a suspect for this. To be clear, it helps his case. It just does not completely absolve him in my eyes.

I don't have an answer to things right now. This game has kind of been back-burnered for me the last few days. I hope I have a chance to do solving things later. This isn't unwinnable.

"Absent" tier in Radish review

Orange in Mac review

Light green in sabie review

~~~

This reminds me in some ways of the way Sloonei treated Epignosis. When Sloonei talked about speedchuck, he really didn't say anything. That's not what I recall of his handling of Mac. I think it's telling that at the end there, when I was prepared to clear speedchuck by way of emotional outburst, that Sloonei clung to that much-needed suspect as much as he could. He knew he couldn't afford to lose that option, and it speaks well to speedchuck.

Doubt they're teammates

The reason I said Epi at first was because that was the one where I read your interpretation and called BS the second most. I saw a very reasonable team between them.
Speedchuck is second on that list, the holding suspicion works as TMI— not willing to clear a teammate so you can end up on the positive side of it if they’re gonna flip. Also, no teammate wants to clear someone for something stupid like that.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

I'm not sure what you're saying I am but you are wrong. And what is Dizzy?

Town or maybe switch with you for the 3P spot. Clearly not scum.

[juliets]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

I'm not sure what you're saying I am but you are wrong. And what is Dizzy?

Town or maybe switch with you for the 3P spot. Clearly not scum.

Ok, my best guess is he's the 3p. He is not town.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

I'm not sure what you're saying I am but you are wrong. And what is Dizzy?

Town or maybe switch with you for the 3P spot. Clearly not scum.

Ok, my best guess is he's the 3p. He is not town.

I’m taking Monty Hall odds unless you can provide me with a reason otherwise.

[juliets]

Sloonei on speedchuck

Spoiler: show

Mint chocolate chip is thin mints in ice cream form. Why on god’s minty green earth would anyone dislike that?

Thin Mints are nasty.

This also does not compute.

SVS asked what I think of speedchuck. I think nothing of speedchuck yet, so let's fix that.

Mint chocolate chip is thin mints in ice cream form. Why on god’s minty green earth would anyone dislike that?

Thin Mints are nasty.

Horrendous opinion, but NAI.

speedchuck. What are you doing speedchuck. What's going on with these seven posts of yours, speedchuck.

Not a whole lot. What's going on with your

*checks*

59 why the hell.

His first on-topic post is nothing.

I would rather vote nutella than jack, because nutella will start scumreading me any minute now.

His second is similarly nothing.

Like Nutella is playing what I would expect from her if she tried really hard to mimic her town game.

Or she’s just town.

Like she’s hitting her scumtell a and her towntells.

This seems to be the epicenter of the Jacktella quake. I am brought to wonder:

How do we (we who know nutella) anticipate her to respond to a post like this, where is she is told she is playing to her norms in both alignments? This is an accusation from Jack after all, even if "softened" by the town half of the presentation. I'm not surprised nutella called it garbage, or that she wondered aloud if a mafioso Jack would be so obvious as to openly hedge in this manner.

Is that where it started? Did he push any harder?

Because I'd be surprised to see nutella offended by this cushy push. More like 'meh' and 'jack do you even have an opinion'

This is his most recent post. I'd like to see it followed up on. I can't draw any conclusions from this, or from anything in speedchuck's ISO (except that he doesn't like thin mints). Underwhelming sure, but nothing in here that makes me want to vote for him. speedchuck is a player who will contribute when he's able regardless of alignment.

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I’m still sick and my head still hurts, so I probably won’t have a ton to say today again. This sucks.

I have an actual case against Radishes. I’ll post it if I find the energy. I have some things to say about speedchuck too. Saying those things requires less energy.

on closer inspection of speed, my thoughts haven't changed much: he's given us very little to work with, focusing on a limited range of topics. I do not fault him for that given his limited availability. There's nothing that makes me read him one way or the other. I would not campaign for his lynch.

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

What do you think about sloonei's point from a few posts ago?

Ah, didn't see that post. I can see it.

I've also said the same thing myself several times as town [citation needed but I think I have]. I might could do it this game, but I wouldn't have time to follow up if someone DID tell me what to do!

Some part of me realizes that not much good comes from 'tell me what to do' though, so I do see it now.
Is that why everyone is voting there? For a point that was made only after everyone already voted there?

It’s one of the reasons my vote has been on him.

Another is that his reads have been weak and none of them are sticking anywhere. Caveat to that is that he doesn’t know any of us, but I feel like his efforts to develop reads (see above) have been flat too.

speedchuck gripes

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

i n t e r e s t i n g

Seriously though, chuck termed the Jacktella thing as interesting and specifically referenced tedxtr as a source of that intrigue -- without providing any actual take or stance. I don't know what the point of this observation is.

Spoiler: show

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

chuck sharted on both the Radish and nutella wagons before engaging himself in the concurrent dialogues. At face value, I think this post looks fake. He answered this accusation already. I'm not moved.

These are the two points that move me the most. speed's answer to my my "developed thoughts" question could have been written by pete buttigieg, and the strong denouncement of both wagons on a day where he's not indicated that he's heavily informed is kinda bogus, especially given that he immedaitely followed that up by shrugging in support of one of those two wagons.
I've yet to fully articulate my Radishes case. Maybe I should do that.

Bottom 5 posters:
Tranq
Dragomir
G-man
sabie
speedchuck

Colin is 6th and Michelle is just behind him. Tranq has been AWOL. Drago was, but appeared at the start of this phase. Neither of them have done anything.
I’m frankly surprised that speedchuck has more posts than sabie and G-man; I feel like those latter two have been bigger presences in the thread.

Cross kills

Makes sense.

But if we’re talking about “keeping a low profile”, I feel like Drago and Tranq don’t really fit; they’ve simply been absent (I think). G-man and speedchuck would be the names that better fit the model of “coasting”.

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads. Their votes are on people I would like to see lynched.

I got twenty minutes. Lets go.

Expand on this, mr chuck

ColinIsCool
Dyslexicon
Turnip Head
juliets
S~V~S
Epignosis
TonyStarkPrime
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr
sig
Dragomir
speedchuck
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Michelle (a)
Tranq (a)
Jackofhearts2005 (b)
sabie12 (a/b)
Dom (b)
G-Man (b)
sprityo (b)

If anyone wants to actually get into some nitty gritty discussion I'm keen. If there are any reads here that are wtf let's talk.

Why is nanook in the same tier as speedchuck and drago?

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Disagree. I say stuff like that all the time.

idk what nanook is talking about here

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

I think the lack of speedchuck's content is a large part of it. I am used to him being a more prominent member of the town. I think that with players like speedchuck sometimes basic is the best way to read them. If he is not living up to the normal standards of contribution then it's probably because he has a non town agenda/is putting a lot of his content elsewhere (ie. scum chat).

I take speedchuck on his word when he says he's super busy. That doesn't tell me anything about his alignment though.

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

No, he is exactly who sig thought he was.

Then why isn't everyone like 'ltnch sig immediately'

Lynch sig immediately.

My theory was that the Inception mechanic was triggered by sig. He's a role from Inception/Inception mafia with *secrets* and he was going to get lynched today, so he had nothing to lose.

My tinfoil about michelle was that she came into our small thread having already collected a bunch of posts from speedchuck to cast suspicion against. If sig triggered the thread-split, his teammate would have been aware it was going to happen and could have taken time to prepare a case against a vulnerable player who they knew would be in their reduced pool of players.

There's a lot of Ifs in there, so it's not something that would determine my vote under ordinary circumstances, but this phase was not ordinary circumstances.

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

Bad Take

This is my Michelle theory, for those who were not in our thread yesterday:

When the day began, Michelle had compiled a long chain of posts from speedchuck from this thread (the one we are all currently posting in) which she used to push a suspicion against The Chuck (and she would later walk back a fair amount of this case in a way that might have been dishonest, but that's not my main issue).

Speedchuck was one of just five people that Michelle shared that thread with. He also had apparently been singled out as a suspect by her coming into that day. This seemed either convenient or coincidental to me.

Separately, I had a theory that the events of yesterday were triggered by sig, as his role (The Architect) is derived from Inception Mafia, it contains secrets, and he was almost a sure bet to be lynched that coming day, so there would be no better time for him to trigger the hypothetical Inception event in his role card. IF this is the case (and that is an enormous if), then there are two people who would have known that the thread split was coming: sig and sig's partner. In the original Inception Mafia game (which Jay and I co-hosted), the mafia team was allowed limited control over which players submerged onto each dream level.

If sig's partner was preparing to submerge into a lower dream level, they would likely want to take a player with them who they could use as a scapegoat for suspicion, or someone who is unlikely to cast suspicion on them in particular. speedchuck could conceivably be a viable candidate for both of those things. So the theory is this: Michelle, as sig's partner/the anti-monitor, was aware that she was going to submerge into a smaller thread, and brought speedchuck with her, having pre-planned an attack against him for that day.

There are holes in this theory that I acknowledge: given that there was only one lynch yesterday (the top level/player with the most votes across all three levels) there should not have been much urgency for Michelle to need a scapegoat like this; it's also not at all impossible that Michelle suspected speedchuck and wanted to ISO him, and it was purely coincidental that they ended up in the same thread together. But the fact that Michelle had singularly prepared to launch an investigation against speedchuck yesterday (I asked her if she had compiled posts on anybody else and she said no) and then ended up in the same small group as him stood out to me as a remarkable coincidence.

so the idea was put Speed and Michelle in Div 2 when Speed is already a popular lynch option and then hope that no one emerges from Div 1?

At the time I didn't know what the lynch mechanics looked like. Maybe she would have wanted a player to scapegoat down there just to be on the safe side. Then again, if Michelle is the anti-monitor and has a -2 vote on her, then the chances of her getting lynched in a 6 person thread are pretty slim to begin with.

We even got the votes to work out perfectly to test out the theory if the mechanics had been the same as Original Inception: 3 votes on Michelle and 2 on speedchuck. If Michelle was in fact the anti-monitor, speedchuck would have been our level's non-fatal lynch victim, and we would have been able to surmise that Michelle was the anti-monitor. But alas...

^that is more in response to speed’s reception of Jay just now than my own stuff, but all of it is applicable.

I’ve argued against town reads on myself as town before.

Why though.

Sometimes because I don’t want things about me to be misconstrued, other times because I want to get a better read on the person reading me.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine for poll management

daylight saving's got me all messed up. I feel like it should only be 5 right now but my clock says 7. We seem locked in on Colin vs. speedchuck at the moment. Has anyone come up with any new points on either of them that I might have missed? If we had to pivot to a third name (assuming TH is our secret lynch), who would it be?

@Sloonei please scan the most recent few posts from Colin and speed and report your impressions.

If I was going to pick one over the other based on the previous page alone, I'd choose speedchuck. Colin's posts don't say much, but his tone is reminiscent of all those times I've driven the train over him. speedchuck was a bit more aggressive in his self-defense and I didn't find any of it particularly inspiring. He bends and shrugs at a lot of points against him and his reads weren't tremendous.

Observers: Commence to comment.

I'm keen to lynch Colin. On that front, sure. I agree with your conclusion. One question:

You noted Colin agreeing with Dyslexicon about a point against Tony. You said you sought follow-up. Later you observed Colin's Day 2 vote for Tony and said you didn't know why he placed it. And lastly you mentioned that the "Tony stuff you were looking for" was vague.

Please expand on all of that. It looks disjointed to me, and at times I struggled to follow what you were saying in general within that case.

Colin didn't bother to interact with his suspects. That's a red flag. A vote doesn't mean anything to me, especially with more than one mafia. I was looking for Colin to parse his suspicion of Tony.

This is where I am. I'll read the rest after this in about an hour. And get roaring drunk. Again.

I feel like I just spoke this post into existence.
Talk to me about ted and speedchuck.

Actually maybe there was something to my Michelle theory. I see no harm in bringing it up again. Who the hell knows at this point?
For reference:

Spoiler: show

This is my Michelle theory, for those who were not in our thread yesterday:

When the day began, Michelle had compiled a long chain of posts from speedchuck from this thread (the one we are all currently posting in) which she used to push a suspicion against The Chuck (and she would later walk back a fair amount of this case in a way that might have been dishonest, but that's not my main issue).

Speedchuck was one of just five people that Michelle shared that thread with. He also had apparently been singled out as a suspect by her coming into that day. This seemed either convenient or coincidental to me.

Separately, I had a theory that the events of yesterday were triggered by sig, as his role (The Architect) is derived from Inception Mafia, it contains secrets, and he was almost a sure bet to be lynched that coming day, so there would be no better time for him to trigger the hypothetical Inception event in his role card. IF this is the case (and that is an enormous if), then there are two people who would have known that the thread split was coming: sig and sig's partner. In the original Inception Mafia game (which Jay and I co-hosted), the mafia team was allowed limited control over which players submerged onto each dream level.

If sig's partner was preparing to submerge into a lower dream level, they would likely want to take a player with them who they could use as a scapegoat for suspicion, or someone who is unlikely to cast suspicion on them in particular. speedchuck could conceivably be a viable candidate for both of those things. So the theory is this: Michelle, as sig's partner/the anti-monitor, was aware that she was going to submerge into a smaller thread, and brought speedchuck with her, having pre-planned an attack against him for that day.

There are holes in this theory that I acknowledge: given that there was only one lynch yesterday (the top level/player with the most votes across all three levels) there should not have been much urgency for Michelle to need a scapegoat like this; it's also not at all impossible that Michelle suspected speedchuck and wanted to ISO him, and it was purely coincidental that they ended up in the same thread together. But the fact that Michelle had singularly prepared to launch an investigation against speedchuck yesterday (I asked her if she had compiled posts on anybody else and she said no) and then ended up in the same small group as him stood out to me as a remarkable coincidence.

But if the theory is that the anti-monitor was on level 2, then this thread’s evidence points more to Jay or G-man, I think. Certainly not speedchuck, and I’d be shocked if it was juliets. Maybe it is her.

I cannot provide a good reason to remove speedchuck from the suspect pool. All I have there is a feeling that he's in a similar spot to Colin, and that he's the most likely bait in the poll at present.

On the flip side of this, yesterday boiled down to a choice between speedchuck and colin. Colin was chosen. It's not impossible that speed is town. But numbers are dwindling and there are confident town reads outside of him.

so I read the sloonei case and I still can't understand why he's making the leap that I'm scum and not just town, the evidence is circumstantial at best. Who's scum other than me sloonei?

Observe the rainbow. Two of the bottom names were wrong, so it is likely flawed somewhere. But you and speedchuck remain among the oranges. Epi and Tranq were difficult to place. I would not be totally shocked if one of the light greens was also bad. I think Tony would be my first choice among them, but that's based largely on my general skepticism toward him as a player.

If everyone has suspected speedchuck forever for every position why has he not been lynched yet?

This is a real question.

Yesterday was the first day he was really mentioned as a serious candidate in a thread that included the entire active roster.

If everyone has suspected speedchuck forever for every position why has he not been lynched yet?

This is a real question.

Yesterday was the first day he was really mentioned as a serious candidate in a thread that included the entire active roster.

sure. And JJJ pushed him and voted for Colin anyways. We talked more about Speed than Colin but Colin ended up lynched.

What's the best reason you can think of to town read speedchuck?

That’s a me thing, not a game thing. I’m still here and still trying to solve things, but my mafia energy isn’t at its peak.

I think the votes for you are wrong if the theory is that you are on Mac’s team. I think they have merit if the theory is that you’re the anti-monitor, but I don’t think that conversation is closed. Epi and Tony can be in the conversation too. Juliets and Jack are my tinfoils.

I think ted is a good bet to be on Mac’s team. Interactions, POE, and his behavior today all point to it.

Would you confidently state that speedchuck is not the anti-monitor?

Tell me more about the yellow thing.

I would not. But sabie had at least one post where she took a definitive stance against speedchuck, which does not align with her handling of the other two members of her team.

In my exchange earlier with ted, he did the old “act incredulous in the face of moderate pressure” routine and I wasn’t a fan.

What’s the best reason we have to town read speedchuck?

There was no chance of me being lynched and two or three competing viable wagons at the time. Why was Sloonei the best vote?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

Why vote at all?

what

A vote for me on Day 2 meant nothing. G-man threw his vote away.

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

All it takes is one or two vocal civilians promoting a case and the wolves can start circling.

Who are the wolves on Jay’s wagon?

From most to least suspicious:
Speedchuck
Epi
Tranq
Tony
You

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

If the POE insists that I must be bad then the POE is wrong.

Could be. I sort of expected you to yell at me, at least with your Sloonei voice, about that out-of-nowhere read. So I'm probably right

I am yelling. Look how angry I am.

I don't see it as out-of-nowhere. I've been forced to reconsider my read on you. It makes sense to reconsider me as well. The POE is wrong if it includes me, and you may be fully aware of that. Walk me through why speedchuck can't be bad.

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

I assume this is what you are talking about. I'm less familiar with speedchuck's anti-emotional stance. This post is not enough to remove him from my POE, and it's possible the emotion is genuine but he's still bad in a multiball game. I'm not sure if he'd be aligned with mac in that scenario though. So I guess if the POE is just for that team then it might make sense.

So you think he is the Anti-Monitor or just faking it? It doesn't sound fake to me but what do I know.

I doubt it was faked. Even without knowing speedchuck has a specific objection to emotional pleas, he doesn't seem like the type to say unkind things for the sake of scoring points in a game. But given the situation right now I'm not totally willing to dismiss him as a suspect for this. To be clear, it helps his case. It just does not completely absolve him in my eyes.

I don't have an answer to things right now. This game has kind of been back-burnered for me the last few days. I hope I have a chance to do solving things later. This isn't unwinnable.

"Absent" tier in Radish review

Orange in Mac review

Light green in sabie review

~~~

This reminds me in some ways of the way Sloonei treated Epignosis. When Sloonei talked about speedchuck, he really didn't say anything. That's not what I recall of his handling of Mac. I think it's telling that at the end there, when I was prepared to clear speedchuck by way of emotional outburst, that Sloonei clung to that much-needed suspect as much as he could. He knew he couldn't afford to lose that option, and it speaks well to speedchuck.

Doubt they're teammates

The reason I said Epi at first was because that was the one where I read your interpretation and called BS the second most. I saw a very reasonable team between them.
Speedchuck is second on that list, the holding suspicion works as TMI— not willing to clear a teammate so you can end up on the positive side of it if they’re gonna flip. Also, no teammate wants to clear someone for something stupid like that.

Tony, what is the "holding suspicion" you are talking about here?

(Something funny (funny haha) that crossed my mind when I read speed's post of last night is that he could be a bad speedchuck getting revenge on a civ Jay for the Phenom game by using all that emotion to get us to civ read him. I don't believe that but that's the weird place where my mind went.)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok, maybe it shouldn't have been called AtE. Let me just describe what I thought I saw - "Woe is me, I have tried hard and done well but I'm being walked to the gallows. Poor me." It just didn't strike me as a Jay thing to say. Maybe I'm wrong about that and I just can't remember you posting like that in other games. It made my stomach sink when I read it, so you could call it a gut response.

I don't expect anyone to care about those sorts of detached lamentations. I'm just speaking to the general experience I have playing Mafia (beyond just this game) and how it differs from most other folks. My perspective is that if two players, JJJ and [any other random player X] have the exact same evidence against them in a game, I am going to tend to get a larger share of the blame than Player X by virtue of how people perceive me as a player. That may or may not be true; it's my perception.

There's little else to talk about beyond pure hunting when you don't feel like what you're doing is being read by most living players, let alone considered or trusted. Imagine how you might feel under those circumstances and what you might say. There's human nature in what I do.

[juliets]

I think Town is Jay Epi Me Michelle punch it in.

How do you delineate the other people?

Speed
Tranq

Ted

Juliets

I'm not sure what you're saying I am but you are wrong. And what is Dizzy?

Town or maybe switch with you for the 3P spot. Clearly not scum.

Ok, my best guess is he's the 3p. He is not town.

I’m taking Monty Hall odds unless you can provide me with a reason otherwise.

<snip>

Also, I know this is crazy tinfoil and maybe you guys think it doesn't matter but could sig (the Architect) have switched Mac's janitored kill Night 2 so that Mac actually killed someone on his own team (Dizzy)? sig knew Mac was bad so it makes some sense he would have targeted him. I'm telling you, ghost Dizzy said something that shows me he was bad or maybe indie. I can't discuss what he said so you will have to just believe me or not. Anyway, maybe it doesn't matter that much because we should just keep looking for scum until LC tells us it's over. Or maybe that's not the way sig's power worked. I just thought I should bring it up as a possibility, crazy as it sounds.

<snip>

Maybe you saw this and you just don't believe me which is ok, I can understand, but ghost Dizzy on Day 4 said something that shows me he is/was bad or indie.

linki

[juliets]

Ok, maybe it shouldn't have been called AtE. Let me just describe what I thought I saw - "Woe is me, I have tried hard and done well but I'm being walked to the gallows. Poor me." It just didn't strike me as a Jay thing to say. Maybe I'm wrong about that and I just can't remember you posting like that in other games. It made my stomach sink when I read it, so you could call it a gut response.

I don't expect anyone to care about those sorts of detached lamentations. I'm just speaking to the general experience I have playing Mafia (beyond just this game) and how it differs from most other folks. My perspective is that if two players, JJJ and [any other random player X] have the exact same evidence against them in a game, I am going to tend to get a larger share of the blame than Player X by virtue of how people perceive me as a player. That may or may not be true; it's my perception.

There's little else to talk about beyond pure hunting when you don't feel like what you're doing is being read by most living players, let alone considered or trusted. Imagine how you might feel under those circumstances and what you might say. There's human nature in what I do.

Ok I understand your point, thanks. And yes, I imagine I would feel really bad if I were in your situation. I sure know what it feels like to be hounded by Jack if you're a civ and what you've experienced goes beyond Jack. I empathize.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dizzy being non-civilian would be a massive boost. An entire extra civilian right now means everything. I have no means of confirming, denying, or inferring on that front though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I definitely don't think ghost Dizzy looked anything like a mafioso though. Whether they'd be independent would depend upon Akechi's win condition. If dying equates to losing, I don't know why they'd bother ghost hunting so hard. The game's over.

[juliets]

I definitely don't think ghost Dizzy looked anything like a mafioso though. Whether they'd be independent would depend upon Akechi's win condition. If dying equates to losing, I don't know why they'd bother ghost hunting so hard. The game's over.

He didn't look like he was on sig's team, thats for sure. And I thought he was town almost the whole time he was alive. I'm just really bothered about him.

[Michelle]

I have no hope to contribute much this phase. I don’t think it’s JJJ, or at least I don’t think he’s master team with Sloonei. We should consider lynching AM suspects today, of which JJJ is one.

Can you explain where do you see the connection between JJJ and the AM?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I have no hope to contribute much this phase. I don’t think it’s JJJ, or at least I don’t think he’s master team with Sloonei. We should consider lynching AM suspects today, of which JJJ is one.

Can you explain where do you see the connection between JJJ and the AM?

He is alive.
Therefore he is an AM suspect.

[Michelle]

i think he should remember me.

I don't. Sorry pal. I have a vague idea of what your posts look like when you play, but I couldn't describe your meta with any specificity or precision. You've a way of blending by nature, and there honestly may be language barrier involved.

Language barrier is another thing who makes me hard to forget. Why Nutella didn't forget me after a game where we didn't even argued? Bad thing to be lynched because of bad memory.
Don't "pal" me please, I am never blending as villager, idk where you found this idea..

[Michelle]

I have no hope to contribute much this phase. I don’t think it’s JJJ, or at least I don’t think he’s master team with Sloonei. We should consider lynching AM suspects today, of which JJJ is one.

Can you explain where do you see the connection between JJJ and the AM?

He is alive.
Therefore he is an AM suspect.

Just this? Can't be there another thing to spot after so many days of playing?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I have no hope to contribute much this phase. I don’t think it’s JJJ, or at least I don’t think he’s master team with Sloonei. We should consider lynching AM suspects today, of which JJJ is one.

Can you explain where do you see the connection between JJJ and the AM?

He is alive.
Therefore he is an AM suspect.

Just this? Can't be there another thing to spot after so many days of playing?

Give me any argument for anyone being the AM.