Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[Sloonei]

i keep seeing mikey vs other person boxing matches and his actual alignment is like a coin flip when that happens. personally it doesn't help me read him so i guess i'm being selfish when i say "pls stop"

honestly i think we really gotta have a talk about the root vegetable crew, and leetic should lay some words down 'cause he says some good stuff when he's present

Let's talk about vegetables then. Why do you single out our nutritious duo?

[Dragomir]

I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.

Because I town read them both?

Chief, that's not good enough.

[Dragomir]

fine it's not what you want your d1 discussion to be

What would you like us to be talking about today?

well i mean i WANNA meme 'til an hour before eod but since that's UNPRODUCTIVE i wanna see a boxing match that doesn't... include mikey lol

Why not? It seems that you guys have plenty of experience with each other. What is your read on him here?
Is there anyone or anything we're not talking about enough?

She knows I am town, but it remains to be seen whether that is because she is a wolf or because she has the good read on me.

i mean you have some townie points but you're not there yet

can't trust you too soon >:O

Why does he have townie points? What did he do to get them?

[ts account]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

[ts account]

That felt like a waste of my time honestly so I really hope you do not want to talk about it any more.

[Funnygurl555]

i keep seeing mikey vs other person boxing matches and his actual alignment is like a coin flip when that happens. personally it doesn't help me read him so i guess i'm being selfish when i say "pls stop"

honestly i think we really gotta have a talk about the root vegetable crew, and leetic should lay some words down 'cause he says some good stuff when he's present

Let's talk about vegetables then. Why do you single out our nutritious duo?

what's their story? are they friends? how did they decide on root vegetables? uhh they haven't said all that much despite viewing the thread for a hot minute each

fine it's not what you want your d1 discussion to be

What would you like us to be talking about today?

well i mean i WANNA meme 'til an hour before eod but since that's UNPRODUCTIVE i wanna see a boxing match that doesn't... include mikey lol

Why not? It seems that you guys have plenty of experience with each other. What is your read on him here?
Is there anyone or anything we're not talking about enough?

She knows I am town, but it remains to be seen whether that is because she is a wolf or because she has the good read on me.

i mean you have some townie points but you're not there yet

can't trust you too soon >:O

Why does he have townie points? What did he do to get them?

it looks like he's alone rn. and while y'all might not agree with what he's saying he's tryna solve. always good

[Sloonei]

I knew there was precedent for me arguing that suspicion based on mechanics talk is as bad or worse than mechanics talk itself, so II did a quick search through some old games because it's 3 AM and we're locked in quarantine so what the hell else am I supposed to do? Anyway, the results were even better than I had hoped for! Here is me in Arrowverse Mafia saying pretty much the exact same words as I've said today.

But it gets even better! I was prompted to make this point because I suspected nutella for focusing too much on mechanics talk as the basis for her primary suspicion. Nutella was mafia. I was correct about her. I'm cool. Validate me.

[ts account]

it looks like he's alone rn

This is compelling to me, for several reasons.

[Sloonei]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

I'm better than all those clowns who write in that dumb book and I just provided evidence to prove it.

[ts account]

I knew there was precedent for me arguing that suspicion based on mechanics talk is as bad or worse than mechanics talk itself, so II did a quick search through some old games because it's 3 AM and we're locked in quarantine so what the hell else am I supposed to do? Anyway, the results were even better than I had hoped for! Here is me in Arrowverse Mafia saying pretty much the exact same words as I've said today.

But it gets even better! I was prompted to make this point because I suspected nutella for focusing too much on mechanics talk as the basis for her primary suspicion. Nutella was mafia. I was correct about her. I'm cool. Validate me.

I would link you a game from Zeldadungeon where [ragnarokio] was engaging in heavy setup discussion, several other players were scum reading her for it, and I town read her because I felt the setup justified the mechanical discussion. It goes both ways and is probably a moot point.

[Sloonei]

I knew there was precedent for me arguing that suspicion based on mechanics talk is as bad or worse than mechanics talk itself, so II did a quick search through some old games because it's 3 AM and we're locked in quarantine so what the hell else am I supposed to do? Anyway, the results were even better than I had hoped for! Here is me in Arrowverse Mafia saying pretty much the exact same words as I've said today.

But it gets even better! I was prompted to make this point because I suspected nutella for focusing too much on mechanics talk as the basis for her primary suspicion. Nutella was mafia. I was correct about her. I'm cool. Validate me.

I would link you a game from Zeldadungeon where [ragnarokio] was engaging in heavy setup discussion, several other players were scum reading her for it, and I town read her because I felt the setup justified the mechanical discussion. It goes both ways and is probably a moot point.

Sloonei agrees, with an assist from Dragomir:

Spoiler: show

Suspecting people for mechanics talk is an easy strategy for scum to latch onto than mechanics talk. Discuss.

But it can also be pretty valid if all the player is doing is mechanic talk without any actual scum hunting/game solving in their posts. An easy way to look contributive.

It can be. But it’s also an easy thing to call a person out on. That is my point.

Everything's always going to be a case-by-case basis. But once "Mafia talks about mechanics" becomes a supposed scumtell, then "mafia talks about mechanics" can become an easy thing for mafia members to latch onto, and thus "mafia talks about mafia talking about mechanics" is the new tell, and so on.

[ts account]

None of this discussion makes it any less of a scumtell, however.

[Sloonei]

None of this discussion makes it any less of a scumtell, however.

I think any hard adherence to a belief in "scumtells" is a flawed way to play the game because it hinges on something other than the particular events of the ongoing game. It is better to ask "Do Player X's actions in this instance reflect an honest mindset?" than to ask "Is what Player X did a scumtell?" There are definitely certain general behaviors that can indicate alignment one way or another, it is always shortsighted to deal in absolutes.

I also think there is value in discussing the absence of two players from the roster in this game right now.

[Sloonei]

i missed a but in there.

[ts account]

None of this discussion makes it any less of a scumtell, however.

I think any hard adherence to a belief in "scumtells" is a flawed way to play the game because it hinges on something other than the particular events of the ongoing game. It is better to ask "Do Player X's actions in this instance reflect an honest mindset?" than to ask "Is what Player X did a scumtell?" There are definitely certain general behaviors that can indicate alignment one way or another, it is always shortsighted to deal in absolutes.

I also think there is value in discussing the absence of two players from the roster in this game right now.

I agree.

[MacDougall]

4 pages ... dang

[MacDougall]

Let us review:

Spoiler: show

I have a soft mindmeld with leetic re: sloonei. However, I'm more suspicious of it because I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way. Since it is early enough in the game, this read is more of a town read on leetic than a condemnation of sloonei. I also want to point out TonyStarkPrime's callout of LongCon (and sloonei's somewhat, but Tony was not involved before this) which I think is not justified.

Defers to another player's initial suspicion before tacking on his own bogus justification.

Spoiler: show

To be clear: my entry posts were not intended as “mechanical speculation”, or at least that was not my primary mindset in making them. I was genuinely concerned that the host had made a mistake.

It's a problem, because you were framing it as a potential game mechanic, when I do not think discussion of that avenue is fruitful for town.

Pursues bogus justification further when confronted with alternative explanation. Fails to elaborate.

Spoiler: show

If you say this was not your intent, then what exactly did you mean by this? I can't interpret it as anything else.

i'm genuinely unsure what's going on. We have two players who signed up for this game that aren't listed on the roster or the poll.

could there be a thematic reason for this? @ anyone who's familiar with the games? We waited a few extra days to get to exactly 15 players. I don't think it's likely that nanook would simply forget to include two people.

Ignores crucial context in first part of Sloonei's posts (highlighted).

Spoiler: show

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

It is a hypothetical pointing out just how useless it is to seek clarification on whatever is going on. If it turns out to be a game mechanic, it's not like we can use that to our advantage, so we should rather focus on generating content and interacting with each other.

Awkward backtracking and re-justification.

Spoiler: show

Suspecting people for talking about mechanics is more suspicious than talking about mechanics.

[VOTE: Ts account] aubergine

This is a lazy read and weak justification for not really anything at all. Will omgus you later.

Calls Sloonei lazy for doing the exact thing he was advocating for one post earlier.

I am sheeping you til one of us dies

[tedxtr]

Sounds like scum mac so far. When is drunk mac gonna post? :P

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: leetic ] aubergine

leetic is my strongest town read at the moment.

Drag me into the darkside... Why?

[Master Radishes]

ok i gotta ask what's up with radish and turnip accs viewing the thread

at first i saw a turnip and was like "cool" but now there's also a radish and does the syndicate have a root vegetable fetish?

Turnip was the original. I come from a different land and am edging in on his soil.

Also, I tend to leave the game open on the page I read up to as I do other things. So you'll probably see me 'online' a lot, but I'm not necessarily reading the thread.


'They're viewing the thread but not posting' is kind of a level 1 read. What was your reasoning behind it?

[Master Radishes]

I see no need for me to add my two cents on the Sloonei/TS discussion. Okay, just one cent: I'm pretty much on board with everything Sloonei said and found TS' line of reasoning lacking, but at the moment I don't particularly read him scum him for it.

Moving on...

[Master Radishes]

It's early days still, but Ted is popping out to me as someone to ISO. Everytime I read his post I'm thinking along the lines of 'Can a scum make that? ...Sure'.

I'm supposed to be working right now (from home, so it's easy for me to get distracted), but next time I take a break I'll do a proper ISO.

[Master Radishes]

I am not someone made to work from home. I need to be trapped in another building with other working people around me.

[Master Radishes]

Okay, here are a couple posts from Ted that pinged me:

Disclaimer: it's early D1 etc etc.

@tedxtr what is your read on sloonei?

Yeah I was gonna get to that, I think you're town and I'm trying to wrap my head around the mess.

This is a cop out to talking about the (at the time) ongoing Sloonei-TS debate. 'Trying to wrap my head around the mess' comes across to me as a scum uncertain how to slip into the predominant conversation.

If ts account is [NSM] Mikey I don't remember him being this jumpy actually.

linki : I liked how you reacted to ts account's push on you, particularly one post somewhere. I guess you handled the callout pretty well, it's maybe something to do with how bad the votes on you were that deceives me into it, but idrc for now, you're sloonei.

(Quote chain that I cut)

A light shading on TS (who I assume is Mikey), followed by a rather qualified reason for TRing Sloonei. Again, just reads as someone who is hesitant to lay down solid reads.

I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

For one thing, it had definitely petered out by this point. But mainly, it has the tone of a scum who is trying to appear frustrated, e.g. 'quite frankly' and such phrasing.


The rest of his ISO is uninspiring. Mostly null posts that don't really indicate alignment either way, and nothing that looks townie enough to overrule my suspicions. Some of the other posts that don't sit well with me include a minor mechanics comments, a seemingly random and unexplained vote on Leetic ('this feels good for now', really?), and some weird commentary on a Mac who had barely entered the thread at that point. Even his entrance posts look a bit questionable under this light, but admittedly by this point I may be tunneling a bit.


Ted sits at the bottom of my list at the moment. I don't normally vote this early into the game, but hey, sometimes it's fun to switch things up. [VOTE: tedextr] aubergine

[tedxtr]

I never thought "Digging into diamonds in order to find shit" was a saying but it probably describes this post.

[Master Radishes]

I never thought "Digging into diamonds in order to find shit" was a saying but it probably describes this post.

A+ defence.

Which diamonds did I not see sparkle?

[Master Radishes]

Actually, don't worry about it. It'll just be 'I read it this way' 'but I meant it this way' sort of discussion, which I don't find particularly useful, myself.

Ted, why did you vote Leetic? I know it's a common enough tactic for civs to vote without reasoning, but 'this feels good for now' is a sort of pseudo-justification that sends sirens off for me. Why does/did it feel good?

[tedxtr]

Horrendous Sloonei vote.

>votes Sloonei for setup speculation
> votes Mikey for pushing Sloonei for setup speculation when Mikey was speculating himself
> ends up on Mikey

Mikey = ts account

Also, it all feels contrived and fake and very surface level. Like he had no real suspicion in the first place. He just bounced out between reads even though it made no sense from a logical standpoint.

[tedxtr]

The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!

[tedxtr]

Word salad. Leetic's post about Sloonei's activity at SoD felt out of place, so did his "setup speculation" post. In Sloonei's position as town, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand. If Leetic were scum though, it wouldn't be an issue because he'd know that his scum buds aren't missing so who the fuck cares about two townies missing.

[Turnip Head]

ok i gotta ask what's up with radish and turnip accs viewing the thread

at first i saw a turnip and was like "cool" but now there's also a radish and does the syndicate have a root vegetable fetish?

I'm named after a quote from the television show LOST. I actually have no idea where Master Radishes came from, though I did catch him as scum from like his second post in the last game

[Turnip Head]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

You could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down here

[MacDougall]

Sounds like scum mac so far. When is drunk mac gonna post? :P

Meh

[Master Radishes]

ok i gotta ask what's up with radish and turnip accs viewing the thread

at first i saw a turnip and was like "cool" but now there's also a radish and does the syndicate have a root vegetable fetish?

I'm named after a quote from the television show LOST. I actually have no idea where Master Radishes came from, though I did catch him as scum from like his second post in the last game

Yeah, well, I once caught a scum before they even posted, so nyah.

JJJ and I played Champs together years ago. We caught up whilst spectating last year's Champs at MU, where both the Syndicate reps (Mac & Nutella) and mine (112) ended up playing together. He invited me for the Inception game and I promised to come play on Syndicate now and then.

[Master Radishes]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

You could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down here

This is my concern with TS too. I don't scum-read him for his overall reasoning/argument, as poor as I found it, but equally I don't get why I've seen one or two people say he and Sloonei must be civ/civ, as his general stubbornness does feel a bit like a scum who doesn't want to be seen backtracking.

This is not a strong enough feeling for me to commit to an SR, as basing a read off a single prolonged discussion is not, in my experience, always the best tell. I'd rather see him get engaged in different discussions first.

[Epignosis]

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I would also say the same about JaggedJimmyJay, but he's Schrödinger's player right now. I'll join you on the Sloonei vote, he has three posts and they're all about an issue that's above his pay grade as a player. In A World Asunder, town Sloonei opened Day 1 with two town reads and a vote on a suspect. [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is perhaps worse than the Leetic but it’s heart is in the right place

Can you clarify this remark?

[tedxtr]

I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

On the weaker side of things, I kind of want to town read this post by Drago :

I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.

Because I town read them both?

Chief, that's not good enough.

Because it's obviously wrong to the point where a scum would be self-aware knowing that they are attacking an angle of "the outcome of this discussion is more fruitful than the fact two people that ted town reads are arguing" is going to put him in the spot light a bit. Or maybe I'm being confbiased into thinking it would look bad, because to me it seems like a silly comment for a wolf to even make, especially when the whole debate was reaching an ending.

I don't care, I'm rocking with it!

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.

[Master Radishes]

Horrendous Sloonei vote.

>votes Sloonei for setup speculation
> votes Mikey for pushing Sloonei for setup speculation when Mikey was speculating himself
> ends up on Mikey

Mikey = ts account

Also, it all feels contrived and fake and very surface level. Like he had no real suspicion in the first place. He just bounced out between reads even though it made no sense from a logical standpoint.

I have no issue with leetic's vote on Sloonei. It was a random vote to kick things off, and that's fine. In a vacuum it doesn't stand out to me.

But I agree that his transition to Mikey felt a bit...opportunistic?

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

Funnygurl, please tell me you are not a wolf.

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.


I know Sloonei liked Leetic's progression, and I see what Sloon is saying about it, but this post from Leetic is still a bit...weird, IMO.

[tedxtr]

Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.

This is also what I wanted to point out but somehow failed to do so anyway, it felt like a really easy standpoint to take while fanning the flames. I think that's the most appropriate way to put it.

[Master Radishes]

@ted I'm not done with you. Next question.

Sounds like scum mac so far. When is drunk mac gonna post? :P

Was this a serious read on Mac? If so, what amongst his first two short posts made you think scum?

[tedxtr]

Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something

[Master Radishes]

I guess there's not much more I can properly question you on, actually. The rest of my case is mainly based around tone/phrasing/opportunism, which is more subjective and difficult to have a proper debate about.

I should go back to preparing home learning for students who are never actually going to do it.

[speedchuck]

btw i don't think sloonei's posts have been incriminating so idk what you're tryna do mikey but alright

so anyway i came across a wattpad entry called "my girlfriend is actually a wolf girl" and about half of my six brain cells have atrophied

Link or it didn't happen.

[Long Con]

I also voted for long con.

Why did you do that?

His vote is silly.

Agreed.

What is silly about it?

His entire premise for the vote is dumb. He assumes that you'll open the same way as you did in another game and since you didn't, it's justification for why you're scum. It's meta and it's stupid meta. Most people don't always open up the exact same way in games that they're in regardless of alignment. I'm confident that I could easily find a game in which he opened differently from this one and day that he's scum.

He's either...
1. Ignoring how dumb his logic is and is just trying to create something against you to contribute.
2. Not realizing how dumb his logic is.

If it's 1, then he's a lazy scum. If it's 2, then he's a lazy townie.

This was the post I liked from Drago. I asked him why he agreed with something I said. The reason he stated mirrored what I was thinking but had not said.

I'd also add that LC just got done hosting a game in which I was mafia and did not appear to lend any weight to that particular game, but cited instead an older game from over a year ago.

That was the last Job in which you were town. That's what I was comparing. Thanks for the add, I guess.

And I liking that inane Drago post is one of the first things that has actually made me suspect you.

[Epignosis]

[speedchuck]

Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.

Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.

[leetic]

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

That's cool. Are you in particular worried about me pocketing you? Just answer the question. It's not like it could hurt you to answer, right?

No, and any player who knows me will tell you that I'm not particularly easy to pocket. But why even ask me in the first place, this seems like a weird question to ask to someone who asked a question to you

I think I'm fine making a town core of Sloonei and Mikey for now. Perhaps my more confident town reads / the only ones I feel like I have some reason for.

By the way, full disclosure, I will be aiming for accuracy over stating reads for the sake of being town read for them, which, surprisingly, is what I was usually doing.

I don't know why you want to make a towncore this early in the game. Even ignoring that it's still too early to say for sure whether they're both town, at this point in the game everyone should be participating.

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

Funnygurl, please tell me you are not a wolf.

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.

This is kinda how I usually talk, y'know

The activity comment felt out of place, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand, it wouldn't be an issue if, on the other hand, he knew what was going on or his scum buddy wasn't missing. Although that's reaching a bit. Or maybe not. After all, in what world would a scum care if two townies weren't put in the main thread. Kudos to the mod!

I don't really like this post or the post succeeding it. It seems to make the assumption that the two missing players are town, without even considering the possibility that either might not be. I mean, if you operate under the opposite assumption, then you can make the opposite point just as easily ("Scum would be much more concerned about the missing players because their scumbuddy might be missing!"). Overall, it's grasping at straws for a reason to suspect.

[speedchuck]

[mention]ts account[/mention] never voted Sloonei through all of this.

Why not?

[Dragomir]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

No, I'm not happy.

[Epignosis]

There exists somewhere a big imaginary