Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

If there's a weak point I have it's that I don't handle suspicion of me very well, especially if I feel like I'm actually trying to solve the game and/or I don't understand the suspicion and in this case I felt like both of those were true.

[speedchuck]

I might could switch to Nanook or MR. I've had my beefs there, though some of my issues with nanook have been dismissed by meta. TSP has also not improved his standing with me, and not just because he's been sitting on me for a long time without doing anything with it.

Or we could be super lame and go after a low poster. Like Jack. >:D

[Tangrowth]

Also his read of me and 112 is fake af. Like. That cannot be a real take.

I called it a hot take on two separate occasions because yes, I thought it, but I also thought it sounded pretty dumb, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.

[speedchuck]

Also his read of me and 112 is fake af. Like. That cannot be a real take.

I called it a hot take on two separate occasions because yes, I thought it, but I also thought it sounded pretty dumb, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.

Yeah, I saw that.

Is there another reason you are voting 112? Because they are in my top 3-4 townreads.

[Tangrowth]

Ok this sounds more like the civ MPlus7 I remember.

What about it specifically?

You came out firing questions off, trying to pin people down for their opinions and takes.

What do you think I would do differently if I was scum?

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Tony has very few game relevant posts. He's spent more time talking about spew and alex jones than actually playing. I don't have a problem with his initial ddl vote, but the fact that his only suspicions come down to ddl=bad and speed=disingenous is not great.

He did say he was playing in three games at once, but he's had time to post here. Even gut reactions would be nice, but scum don't have guts.

Yeah, I noticed the lack of game relevant posts, too. I think the main thing that had kept me from joining his wagon in the last 12-24 hours was that Long Con was on the wagon. I like him more now though, and MR has been continuing to settle into town territory in my head.

I might try to start a wagon on a lurker though (Poison in this case since Nanook seems open to them), just to see what happens.

What do you think would happen, and how would that inform your reads if the subject of your vote isn't really posting?

I never really know what will happen when I make votes like that. What I hope for though is chatter, banter, and all sorts of other reactions. I didn't vote for Poison to get a read on Poison. I voted them to get a read on other people. I wanted to see what they'd do, what they'd say, etc. It's pretty much why I like tying wagons so much, too. I already talked about some of what I gained out of it, namely the 'never more than one scum in {nutella, MR, Speedchuck}' read that no one seemed to comment on.

Thanks for this.

[Master Radishes]

It's 11:30pm and I'm normally asleep by now. My eyes are drooping and my wife is already asleep.

I'm seeing the game in a new light.

Update: turns out I'm not.

[Tangrowth]

@M Plus 7, I'm not following your read on 112 and nutella. Did you think that interaction between them was distancing? What about it made you think that as opposed to just a normal interaction (assuming that's what you thought). I'm not reading either of them as scum right now so whatever you're seeing I'd like to know.

@Hyena I see your vote for 112 but I think you have talked about why you find her scummy so I'll go back to your posts.

I thought it could be, yeah, but I'm not sold on it by any means.

For the record, I don't prefer to lynch 112 here... I think, but after a strong entrance I've had my doubts and I wanted to see what others were thinking.

[Tangrowth]

Hey MR, what are your current reads and/or POE? Sorry if this question is answered somewhere else.

[Tangrowth]

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

Feeling this out.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Against my typical habits, I'm actively avoiding sharing a rainbow list right now because my reads are very much in flux right now regarding the most active posters, and otherwise more people need to be pressured before this game is over.

Hey LC, what are your reads buddy?

I'm generally feeling suspicious of 112 and Nanook across the day. I haven't really pinpointed for myself why, but I would join those wagons if they were a go at crunch time.

I don't suspect Mplus7, and even if I did, I am unlikely to contribute to his Day 1 lynch after I specifically called for and performed his Night 1 kill in the last game we played, Mafia is fun online social time, and I want to hang with my old friend.

I am not suspicious of DDL for the Radishes accusation. nutella sure is, but that's ok. Not really down with voting nutella.

Juliets could be an option. I don't have a townread of her.

My vote has been on Tony for too long. He could be bad, but I'd rather vote 112 or Nanook. [VOTE: Nanook] aubergine because 112's wagon is already revving up.

Thanks for responding. Talk to me about 112 and/or Nanook if you want. I know you said you haven't pinpointed anything specific... is it more like a general feel or are there any posts that you think people should be taking a look at?

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

I think his exhaustion is more likely due to rolling mafia than anything else. He says he's not as interested and doesn't know why he signed up, which in my experience is more of a wolf tell than a town one.

Is this broadly true?

[TonyStarkPrime]

why is there no one suspicious with votes what happened from page 7 to page 13

[nutella]

My point is, if MP is scum, he'll be dangerous if we don't catch him early and nip the powerwolf potential in the bud. Yes, it could be argued that if I turn out to be wrong it's a net worse loss for thread productivity, but if we don't solve his slot I'll be nervous about it all game and I just know that nobody else will be on board with it after a point. It's a... sacrifice I'm willing to make.

This is the dumbest logic of all time, and I suspect you for it because you should know better.

It's like lynching Jay or Epi or anyone else on Day 1 out of fear. It's cowardice.

No, it's not like that, because I actually suspect you, lol. You can be salty about it but that's just the truth.

[Tangrowth]

I don't have any specific reason to scumread 112, but I don't have the strongest townread of her either and she deepwolfed really well in wc1 so I understand and respect Hyena's paranoia there. I probably won't be voting for 112 today unless something big happens, but she's in the back of my mind as someone to be careful about getting too comfortable with.

Can you tell me more about how 112 normally plays?

[Tangrowth]

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

I still think he's mildly suspicious tbh, but he is actively contributing and I want to pressure elsewhere before this EoD.

What else you got?

Nothing I particularly feel like lynching, tbh.

Just a few civ reads I already mentioned. Nutella, 112 and I guess speedchuck.

Solving by POE is of course a thing. Is there anyone else you'd prefer not to lynch against the field?

[nutella]

Like come on guys, that slot is probabilistically more likely town than not, whereas we have thread content to analyze for all other slots that may help us determine that someone has more likelihood to be scum. Not to get mathy about it but it's just all around a dumb thing to do to lynch that slot. Allow me to say it -- it's -EV.

I agree don’t lynch 0 posters but I kinda dislike how much Nutella is leaning on “probably town anyway cause reasons.”

Could be tmi.

I didn't say that. I said more likely town, just mathematically.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

DrWigly's entrance was fishy and I agree with Nute's quick wit about calling him on it.

Hyena is a tricky player but I think is deserving of the benefit of the doubt at least until LyLo (or later this round, your call).

Hey 112, I believe I spoke to Wilgy and said his NAI entrance is always something like "I'm (not) a doctor / X and whatever", so can you talk to me about why you think it was fishy if there is a point otherwise?

mostly i didn't like his tone lol

that's all i go by when i don't have meta on page 1

i didn't think anything of you saying his normal entrance has something to do with being a doctor or not

Got it, thanks.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

I still think he's mildly suspicious tbh, but he is actively contributing and I want to pressure elsewhere before this EoD.

What else you got?

Nothing I particularly feel like lynching, tbh.

Just a few civ reads I already mentioned. Nutella, 112 and I guess speedchuck.

How about me?

You lean civ so far but not strongly.

You post a lot, say interesting things, but I tend to second guess myself when someone seems too likable.

You are basically Turnip Head, and it takes a while for me to form an opinion on Turnip Head.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

@Hyena could you talk to me about your 112 read? My first impression of her today was town, mostly because her posts seemed free flowing and not thought out. What are you seeing that leads you to think she might be scum? I don't play regularly with her so I don't really have meta data.

Okay, so for 112, it's more of a gut read at the moment. I'm getting vibes similar to the ones I got from both her AND Evenstar in the champs game I played with them in last year. Specifically, it's the "Hyena's a tricky player" thing she said. Evenstar said something to that effect and pocketed me with it, so it pings me whenever I see something along those lines. It's even more suspicious to me since 112 also said she immediately townread me and Nutella from, like, page 1.

OK, here's what I'm remembering. By the way I have pulled up that WC game and am making my way through 112's posts there. It's slow going because I'm reading her in isolation as opposed to trying to read the whole game.

Is this still how you feel about her? Has anything that's happened since furthered your suspicion?

No, nothing has happened to further my suspicion. It hasn't gotten any better either though. It's remained static throughout D1. The reason why I'm still considering 112 as an option is because I feel like I was able to read her town in the Inception game. Thus, it's not like I can't find her as town when she is town. She's just not showing she's town right now.

What do you think of her entrance and reads progression on MR?

[Tangrowth]

Nutella has convinced me.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine

What was convincing?

[Tangrowth]

I feel like the scum team is largely caught at this point but I'm still not too sure who it is, which is sort of to say they're not caught, but I think in generally we're doing a good job of sorting them somehow if that makes any sense. I have no justifications for saying this.

That's odd because I feel like the game is very cloudy and unpredictable right now.

[Tangrowth]

So I'd say I'm an amazing reader of Nanook, the best in fact, there are no better readers of nanook than I Sigurd the best reader of nanook.
I've been right every game so far. Last game doesn't count since I had no genuine reads, but Mac.

I got distracted and didn't finish my point. Oops.

Okay so, I'm not seeing the suspicion thrown his way yet. Wouldn't wanna lynch him today.
112 has an odd playstyle, but not worth being a D1 lynch. He seems kinda like a more active Wilgy type. So I'm hesitant to lynch based off that.

Nutella seems hella confident this game, which is generally outside of her civ meta correct? Having said that I agree with her on MP, so Imma reread both real fast and see what's up there.

"MP seems weird in a bad way he cleared Nutella really quickly and is a gut bad ping right now."

This is also just... I can't even. It's like he still doesn't know how I play this game all these years later.

I don't like this reaction from him. Especially since it was my first post and had no real solid reads.

Can you seriously ever not suspect me? It's relatively agitating.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

ok

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

.....Didn't you say MR was lock town

It wasn't a serious post.

And let me throw the shade back at you whataboutistically and ask: how do I know you're not playing up the 'I suck as mafia' angle in order to get people to look away from you?

Because it's true? Because I'm not worried about anyone looking at me in the first place?

Hot take: this interaction is between two scummates.

I do not understand this post. I guess it attracts attention, which hot takes are supposed to do by definition, but I don't see the reasoning behind it.

I guess I'm probably off then. It just was an immediate interpretation my gut had as I was reading it even if my brain discarded it.

[nutella]

I'm honestly more incensed at nutella because I think she's being a bone-headed townie than anything nefarious, but admittedly my viewpoint on the matter is biased.

Fine, I'll stop being boneheaded about it. I'm not tunnelling. I just suspect you. Is that okay?


I honestly don't know how you enjoy the game if you get so upset that you have to leave the thread any time someone suspects you.

[Tangrowth]

I will say that I feel I'm seeing 112's town game here. I get the hesitation because of WC1, but that was seriously the best scum game from her I've ever seen, and I had her locktown in spec chat right up till 'bye'. So if the case against her is just 'she's bouncing around a lot' that's not enough.

I will take this into consideration, thank you.

[nutella]

I don't know what to do with MP anymore. I'm probably not going to lynch him today but... dang, trying to play mafia here.

I voted there because the entry posts and prodding questions felt obligatory and lackluster, as a gut thing. I wanted to see what fire he brought and what defense he tossed up.

There was some fire brought. But I read the defense as "you guys are freaking stupid and not making any sense" which not only doesn't work as a defense for me, but basically boils down to an Appeal to Emotion, which I despise.

That doesn't mean it's NAI or even scummy as a defense, but it doesn't work.

Yeah. The tilting didn't help, but the last post I quoted where he says he thinks I'm just a mistaken townie felt a little better. Except that he had just been pointing his finger at me earlier. So idk.

[Tangrowth]

I’m never lynching MP7 D1 for fear of his wolf game.

Does he even have a good wolf game? I think I’ve only seen him rand town.

I honestly think the difference between my games is pretty clear by D3.

Agenda? Faked dogpee? I'm scum.

No agenda? I'm probably more often wrong? I'm town.

Easy.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.

This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.

[Tangrowth]

I don't know what to do with MP anymore. I'm probably not going to lynch him today but... dang, trying to play mafia here.

I voted there because the entry posts and prodding questions felt obligatory and lackluster, as a gut thing. I wanted to see what fire he brought and what defense he tossed up.

There was some fire brought. But I read the defense as "you guys are freaking stupid and not making any sense" which not only doesn't work as a defense for me, but basically boils down to an Appeal to Emotion, which I despise.

That doesn't mean it's NAI or even scummy as a defense, but it doesn't work.

It's not something I'm posting with the intention of wanting it to work.

[Master Radishes]

Hey MR, what are your current reads and/or POE? Sorry if this question is answered somewhere else.

Probs town: LC, 112, Speed, maybe Jack based off recent posts, maybe Hyena?

Not lynching per activity: PC, Wilgy

Inner PoE: TSP, DDL, sig

Outer PoE: Nook, nutella, I guess Juliets (not SRing her really, just don't know what her scum game looks like), making my mind up on you still


Ask me in a few minutes and I'll probably shuffle my PoE around.

Link: jfc MP stop posting

[Tangrowth]

At this point the absolute worst thing I've seen from MP is probably the 112 vote. I see nothing suspicious in 112, the one MP post I've seen about his suspicion is just about connecting nutella and 112 (why not just vote nutella if that's the only reason), and if perchance MP doesn't actually want to lynch there I don't know what the point of the vote is.

I'm going to get yelled at for this.

My reads are lacking confidence, I had a ping, and I wanted to interact with her and pressure it a bit. Not that I wanted her lynched by EOD per se.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m never lynching MP7 D1 for fear of his wolf game.

Does he even have a good wolf game? I think I’ve only seen him rand town.

I honestly think the difference between my games is pretty clear by D3.

Agenda? Faked dogpee? I'm scum.

No agenda? I'm probably more often wrong? I'm town.

Easy.

There are a lot of players that read this way. I get deciphered on day 4, I always have Jack on day 3, etc. Eventually, you reach a critical mass of those players and have to start picking up on things earlier.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

In general I'm town reading DDL for going against quo on the page, but the phrasing seems ___stilted___ and repetitive -- forced in a sense (the same "I don't see it" idea). I'm not one of those micro-post analysts but it throws me off.

[Tangrowth]

I might could switch to Nanook or MR. I've had my beefs there, though some of my issues with nanook have been dismissed by meta. TSP has also not improved his standing with me, and not just because he's been sitting on me for a long time without doing anything with it.

Or we could be super lame and go after a low poster. Like Jack. >:D

What do you think of juliets now by the way?

[Tangrowth]

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

I think his exhaustion is more likely due to rolling mafia than anything else. He says he's not as interested and doesn't know why he signed up, which in my experience is more of a wolf tell than a town one.

Is this broadly true?

I'd say it depends.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Now I know sig is one of the most often mislynched players on our site, but let's talk about this post some more:

Not a fan of Nanook/Nutella interaction. But, on their own they're Null.
Radish is my first civ lean, not only was his joke funny, but he doesn't seem bad.
Speed seems okay.
MP seems weird in a bad way he cleared Nutella really quickly and is a gut bad ping right now.
Hyena seems so excited that it's tiring.
Juliet seems like her normal self
LC is a bit off, which probably means he's civ.
112, DDL, Wilgy no clue.
TSP is a gut ping.

I just did a quick skim will probably dig in a bit more later tonight.

linki: Heeeeey

What do people think of this? Is it a reasonable set of perceptions based on thread happenings?

It feels kind of unimpressive.

I expect Sig to start unleashing crazy tinfoil theories at some point.

If he fails to, lynch him.

[Tangrowth]

My point is, if MP is scum, he'll be dangerous if we don't catch him early and nip the powerwolf potential in the bud. Yes, it could be argued that if I turn out to be wrong it's a net worse loss for thread productivity, but if we don't solve his slot I'll be nervous about it all game and I just know that nobody else will be on board with it after a point. It's a... sacrifice I'm willing to make.

This is the dumbest logic of all time, and I suspect you for it because you should know better.

It's like lynching Jay or Epi or anyone else on Day 1 out of fear. It's cowardice.

No, it's not like that, because I actually suspect you, lol. You can be salty about it but that's just the truth.

Sorry, I just must really not understand it then. If I understood it better I wouldn't have felt so upset about it.

I thought the main reason was my entrance, but then I thought you retracted that, so... ?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

"MP seems weird in a bad way he cleared Nutella really quickly and is a gut bad ping right now."

This is also just... I can't even. It's like he still doesn't know how I play this game all these years later.

I can't speak for others but I couldn't describe your playstyle if you pointed a gun to my head, other than with "posts a lot". You stopped playing not along after I started playing here.

[TonyStarkPrime]

MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad on him, like he can't pick anyone else who warrants a vote on them.

is this a serious take

[Master Radishes]

I actually drifted off with my laptop still open. Too many games going on.

I'm just going to go back to [VOTE: TSP] aubergine and fall asleep now. Good night.

[Tangrowth]

I'm honestly more incensed at nutella because I think she's being a bone-headed townie than anything nefarious, but admittedly my viewpoint on the matter is biased.

Fine, I'll stop being boneheaded about it. I'm not tunnelling. I just suspect you. Is that okay?


I honestly don't know how you enjoy the game if you get so upset that you have to leave the thread any time someone suspects you.

I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, I assure you. Mafia is a game of highs and lows for me, that's true every time. I just... I don't hold anything against you or LC at all for being killed N1 in the last game, but the very last thing I want in this game is to roll town and then start off the game as a mislynch for you guys because I'm a much better player in the mid-game than I am now, and so in addition to settin town back mathematically I really don't want that to happen. Then add in that I just felt like I didn't really understand, I also felt like I was getting piled on between sig, speedchuck, and then coming back to the thread and seeing I'm the leading wagon, and I just haven't played here much in a while and I don't mean to say stuff like that to guilt anyone, by all means if you genuinely suspect me you should vote me, but yeah. And then, add to that -- being introspective, the multigaming is likely increasing the amount of mafia-related stress I have on my plate right now.

I apologize, truly, but I hope that better explains this specific frame of mind and why I got particularly upset this time. I'll try to act more maturely about it.

[Tangrowth]

settin' town bayck

I roleplayed without meaning to.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My point is, if MP is scum, he'll be dangerous if we don't catch him early and nip the powerwolf potential in the bud. Yes, it could be argued that if I turn out to be wrong it's a net worse loss for thread productivity, but if we don't solve his slot I'll be nervous about it all game and I just know that nobody else will be on board with it after a point. It's a... sacrifice I'm willing to make.

You can always count on me to consider starting a surprise MP lynch later on, if he becomes suspicious. I don't cultivate townreads permanently.

The key is later on, though. I don't want to lynch someone as fun as MP on day fucking 1, after not playing with him for 4 years.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also his read of me and 112 is fake af. Like. That cannot be a real take.

I don't recall even explaining the take tbh.

[Tangrowth]

I don't know what to do with MP anymore. I'm probably not going to lynch him today but... dang, trying to play mafia here.

I voted there because the entry posts and prodding questions felt obligatory and lackluster, as a gut thing. I wanted to see what fire he brought and what defense he tossed up.

There was some fire brought. But I read the defense as "you guys are freaking stupid and not making any sense" which not only doesn't work as a defense for me, but basically boils down to an Appeal to Emotion, which I despise.

That doesn't mean it's NAI or even scummy as a defense, but it doesn't work.

Yeah. The tilting didn't help, but the last post I quoted where he says he thinks I'm just a mistaken townie felt a little better. Except that he had just been pointing his finger at me earlier. So idk.

I honestly couldn't figure out your alignment during all of that because I kept flipping between thinking town!nutella should know me better but then only town!nutella could be tunneling me like this because surely scum!nutella would rather not bring all this attention to herself, pocket me, and just NK me if I ever become a problem.

[juliets]

Ok this sounds more like the civ MPlus7 I remember.

What about it specifically?

You came out firing questions off, trying to pin people down for their opinions and takes.

What do you think I would do differently if I was scum?

Maybe you would do more of what you were doing yesterday. Maybe you would be less direct. Maybe you would just pop in with a question or two, a few reads, a vote then be busy again. Or, maybe you would come in firing questions off, trying to pin people down for their opinions and takes. I didn't see it that way though.

linki

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.

This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.

Hey Tony, what do you mean by this?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So I agree the speed on juliets was kind of dumb. That kind of arguments works on a generic mafia player but not on juliets since she is doing the usual juliets thing. That said speed is the kind of guy who makes crappy cases on day 1 just to produce reactions. I think the last two times I saw him doing that he was town? So yeah not super sus about him rn.

Nutella feels very town. Also liked 112's train of thought even if I'm not sure she is right, so she feels town too. Radishes defended it with a generic "I always do that" defense which is annoying but might as well be true.

Not reading anyone else tbh. I guess LC feels like a bit of nonpresence so I might vote there? Maybe.

Would you say that's different than LC normally?

Not sure yet. LC eventually becomes more engaging, maybe he will get there, maybe it's still to soon for it. He is not my favorite lynch target though, just was the one I had some feeling about wanting to lynch this morning, but now I'm feeling MR more.

Imo he's been a hell of a lot more engaging than you, lol. At least until you got more involved today.

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town's playbook.

[Tangrowth]

Hey MR, what are your current reads and/or POE? Sorry if this question is answered somewhere else.

Probs town: LC, 112, Speed, maybe Jack based off recent posts, maybe Hyena?

Not lynching per activity: PC, Wilgy

Inner PoE: TSP, DDL, sig

Outer PoE: Nook, nutella, I guess Juliets (not SRing her really, just don't know what her scum game looks like), making my mind up on you still


Ask me in a few minutes and I'll probably shuffle my PoE around.

Link: jfc MP stop posting

I'll try to be more efficient with my posting, I promise.

Thanks for this though. I'll throw one out once I feel like my reads are less cloudy, I feel like I haven't found my footing yet even though I should have.