nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:38 pm
If MR was scum I don't believe anything anymore. I have no beliefs. I am an apostate of the school of mafia. I give up.
I don't believe this reaction.
That could not be more diametrically opposed to my view, so it'd be cool if you could talk to me more about this. I think it looks completely stream of consciousness, especially given the string of multiple posts prior to it.
Consider: It is D2. Both you and Nutella could flip town and Speed could flip wolf right now and I wouldn’t be that dramatic about it.
I didn’t even know that was such a strong townread of hers or why.
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:09 am
I am astounded at the in-thread agreement over voting me as the secret vote. Regardless of one's confidence in scum reads, and that's always a terrible use of the mechanic in my opinion.
We need in-thread agreement, or the baddies could take the secret vote.
I understand that, and I absolutely agree, but I think it should not be used to vote for an active participant.
It's like we all have a day vig shot in a way. The secret vote serves as a fantastic way for us all to agree to resolve a slot that otherwise will be difficult to assess. I think the lynch then could still function as normal. I totally get why I'd have public votes given the suspicion, just not the private ones.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:30 pm
Yeah, a lot of these quotes look really icky in retrospect. And lol the 112 stuff too
I'm sold. [VOTE:
M Plus 7] aubergine
Explain to me better what you were thinking here.
I just thought that it looked plausible that you were involved in saving MR -- the point about knowing Nanook would self-pres so you specifically chose sig to make the 4-4-4 made sense. In retrospect though I don't necessarily view your EOD behavior as having that much agenda to it though, we seemed to be in similar boats then just flailing around and spontaneously deciding to go for the tie there.
Also at the time Hyena made that case I was feeling so at sea after MR's flip that when I saw a case on my OG first suspect appear it was like a life preserver I could latch onto. At the time very few things were making sense to me and that seemed like it potentially could. The feeling faded when you returned and now I'm the captain of HMS Juliets.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:38 pm
If MR was scum I don't believe anything anymore. I have no beliefs. I am an apostate of the school of mafia. I give up.
I don't believe this reaction.
That could not be more diametrically opposed to my view, so it'd be cool if you could talk to me more about this. I think it looks completely stream of consciousness, especially given the string of multiple posts prior to it.
Consider: It is D2. Both you and Nutella could flip town and Speed could flip wolf right now and I wouldn’t be that dramatic about it.
I didn’t even know that was such a strong townread of hers or why.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:38 pm
If MR was scum I don't believe anything anymore. I have no beliefs. I am an apostate of the school of mafia. I give up.
I don't believe this reaction.
That could not be more diametrically opposed to my view, so it'd be cool if you could talk to me more about this. I think it looks completely stream of consciousness, especially given the string of multiple posts prior to it.
Consider: It is D2. Both you and Nutella could flip town and Speed could flip wolf right now and I wouldn’t be that dramatic about it.
I didn’t even know that was such a strong townread of hers or why.
I had him and speed in the "never lynch" tier of my list complete with a "these people are never scum here" description so I thought I'd made it pretty clear I had locked him town. I gave reasons a couple times though admittedly they weren't the most fleshed out, a lot of it was gut. Maybe in the future I shouldn't have lock town reads without more substantial reasons (I do still consider my reasons for Speed substantial lol) but it felt really really strong to me. I can't really defend it.
MP makes a good point though, if you think the way I locked MR town makes sense as a way I would treat a mafia teammate, I don't know what to say about your nutellameter lmao. If it's that beyond repair you might not be able to trade it in for anything better than a glorfindar.
It would be a different kind of move, but if "your teammate" Radishes was generally looking like the team's F3 possibility, you might say such nice things.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
M Plus 7 you actively TR nutes and I actively TR Jules. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
My vote is absolutely subject to change. If you have spoken to your town read of juliets elsewhere, feel free to point me to it.
Not more than briefly I think, it’s primarily a tone read. She reads exactly the same to me as last time I played with her, in GOC I think it must’ve been. Like she’s hitting all the same townie pings for me.
Tbh it’s also partly a function of who’s pushed on her, specifically chuck and now nutella. Not necessarily because they’re mafia (although I do think it’s nonzero they are), but also because I suspect their reads are fairly inverted this game if town.
These aren't very good reasons lol. She is very good at mimicking the same style as scum fyi. May be worth looking into a scum game of hers (Girl Genius comes to mind). And yeah my reads haven't been great so far in this game but do me a favor and look at the two posts where I assessed her and MR's interactions and just see what you think. They hardly talked about each other at all, and when they did it was quite handwavey and extremely compatible imo.
I’m barely reading this game I’m not gonna go read another one. And as a matter of principle I refuse to.
You can say “Jules has good tone regardless of alignment” but until I’m wrong I’m going to continue to TR her the way I have successfully before, small sample size be damned.
I'm likely wrong about at least one of my maybe town, but otherwise considering my familiarity with this game and my general state of being I feel alright about those reads.
Given that, Nanook, I'm a bit more inspired to be voting for juliets over speed, but I'm listening. I'm torn on his defense of me earlier, could be some TMI there.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
M Plus 7 you actively TR nutes and I actively TR Jules. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
My vote is absolutely subject to change. If you have spoken to your town read of juliets elsewhere, feel free to point me to it.
Not more than briefly I think, it’s primarily a tone read. She reads exactly the same to me as last time I played with her, in GOC I think it must’ve been. Like she’s hitting all the same townie pings for me.
Tbh it’s also partly a function of who’s pushed on her, specifically chuck and now nutella. Not necessarily because they’re mafia (although I do think it’s nonzero they are), but also because I suspect their reads are fairly inverted this game if town.
These aren't very good reasons lol. She is very good at mimicking the same style as scum fyi. May be worth looking into a scum game of hers (Girl Genius comes to mind). And yeah my reads haven't been great so far in this game but do me a favor and look at the two posts where I assessed her and MR's interactions and just see what you think. They hardly talked about each other at all, and when they did it was quite handwavey and extremely compatible imo.
I’m barely reading this game I’m not gonna go read another one. And as a matter of principle I refuse to.
You can say “Jules has good tone regardless of alignment” but until I’m wrong I’m going to continue to TR her the way I have successfully before, small sample size be damned.
OK fine, but don't ignore the other thing I said. Give my case a look.
To expand on the Tony read, I'm feeling him town in my soul in large part. I'm also giving him and Nanook some credit for being potential MR counterwagons, which I'll have to re-evaluate.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.
And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--
The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.
Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.
And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--
The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.
Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.
I don’t believe this stuff.
I really don't understand why you're not believing it. You just saw nutella in the baseball game with me. Talk to me about this some more.
Idk man, I’m getting serious deja vu to GoC where there was a lot of “maybe juliets is mafia?” Early in the game and I didn’t understand it then and I don’t understand it now. Maybe she has an incredible wolf game and I don’t know it but idk, she just looks the same to me
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
M Plus 7 you actively TR nutes and I actively TR Jules. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
My vote is absolutely subject to change. If you have spoken to your town read of juliets elsewhere, feel free to point me to it.
Not more than briefly I think, it’s primarily a tone read. She reads exactly the same to me as last time I played with her, in GOC I think it must’ve been. Like she’s hitting all the same townie pings for me.
Tbh it’s also partly a function of who’s pushed on her, specifically chuck and now nutella. Not necessarily because they’re mafia (although I do think it’s nonzero they are), but also because I suspect their reads are fairly inverted this game if town.
These aren't very good reasons lol. She is very good at mimicking the same style as scum fyi. May be worth looking into a scum game of hers (Girl Genius comes to mind). And yeah my reads haven't been great so far in this game but do me a favor and look at the two posts where I assessed her and MR's interactions and just see what you think. They hardly talked about each other at all, and when they did it was quite handwavey and extremely compatible imo.
I’m barely reading this game I’m not gonna go read another one. And as a matter of principle I refuse to.
You can say “Jules has good tone regardless of alignment” but until I’m wrong I’m going to continue to TR her the way I have successfully before, small sample size be damned.
OK fine, but don't ignore the other thing I said. Give my case a look.
I don’t know how radishes or Jules normally handle partners so it’s pretty meaningless for me.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.
And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--
The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.
Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.
I don’t believe this stuff.
Do you have anything better?
It's strong enough for me, when I townread everyone else And I do actually think it's quite strong. That's a teammate interaction pairing if I've ever seen one.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:26 am
Idk man, I’m getting serious deja vu to GoC where there was a lot of “maybe juliets is mafia?” Early in the game and I didn’t understand it then and I don’t understand it now. Maybe she has an incredible wolf game and I don’t know it but idk, she just looks the same to me
Hmmm, talk to me some more about this. I'm also not sure what happened in GoC.
Like there’s 14 other players D1 and 12 others D2, there’s gonna be a lot of handwavey fluff interactions. I don’t see it as meaningful either way without meta that says one of them specifically interacts with partners that way, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a scum game from either one, so....it’s a big ol shrug and an “ok, sure.” from me.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:30 am
Like there’s 14 other players D1 and 12 others D2, there’s gonna be a lot of handwavey fluff interactions. I don’t see it as meaningful either way without meta that says one of them specifically interacts with partners that way, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a scum game from either one, so....it’s a big ol shrug and an “ok, sure.” from me.
Interactive analyses are a helpful tool in my opinion. Shouldn't be the end all be all, but they're worthwhile considerations.
To those of you still considering voting me, may I offer one other consideration.
I'm not even playing at anywhere remotely near 100% of my capacity, and I have almost 300 posts halfway-ish through Day 2. If that doesn't also suggest I'm town, then *shrug*.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:26 am
Idk man, I’m getting serious deja vu to GoC where there was a lot of “maybe juliets is mafia?” Early in the game and I didn’t understand it then and I don’t understand it now. Maybe she has an incredible wolf game and I don’t know it but idk, she just looks the same to me
Hmmm, talk to me some more about this. I'm also not sure what happened in GoC.
Uh, Jules was town that I correctly TR fairly early (D2 I wanna say), there was some early pushing against her (I don’t recall if she actually got voted up or not), it seemed silly to me, the pushing this game feels just as...I don’t wanna say stupid cause that’s too harsh, so let’s go with specious. Like it just feels like a paranoia “Jules has a good scum game” push to me.
Idk, I haven’t actually seen her mafia game so I’m wary of hard defending her, but if she looks the same to me as in a previous game I correctly TR her then I’m going to TR her again.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
M Plus 7 you actively TR nutes and I actively TR Jules. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?
My vote is absolutely subject to change. If you have spoken to your town read of juliets elsewhere, feel free to point me to it.
Not more than briefly I think, it’s primarily a tone read. She reads exactly the same to me as last time I played with her, in GOC I think it must’ve been. Like she’s hitting all the same townie pings for me.
Tbh it’s also partly a function of who’s pushed on her, specifically chuck and now nutella. Not necessarily because they’re mafia (although I do think it’s nonzero they are), but also because I suspect their reads are fairly inverted this game if town.
These aren't very good reasons lol. She is very good at mimicking the same style as scum fyi. May be worth looking into a scum game of hers (Girl Genius comes to mind). And yeah my reads haven't been great so far in this game but do me a favor and look at the two posts where I assessed her and MR's interactions and just see what you think. They hardly talked about each other at all, and when they did it was quite handwavey and extremely compatible imo.
I’m barely reading this game I’m not gonna go read another one. And as a matter of principle I refuse to.
You can say “Jules has good tone regardless of alignment” but until I’m wrong I’m going to continue to TR her the way I have successfully before, small sample size be damned.
OK fine, but don't ignore the other thing I said. Give my case a look.
I don’t know how radishes or Jules normally handle partners so it’s pretty meaningless for me.
On radish's front I'd say we did a pretty dang good job of catching his teammates in the GOC based on interactive reads. And I know you like individual-specific reasons, but I'll argue that the way they treated each other here is more broadly very teammate compatible based on a general pattern of scum behavior. Plus, when you specifically compare it to how each of them treated almost everyone else, it's notably lacking. Like, when reading through MR's iso I found reasons to dissociate most other players from him, and juliets talked about most other players a fair amount as well. So the hole is gaping and conspicuous when it comes to their pairing.
Now I would love to help further solve the game right now, and I will do so as much as I can, but I reaaaaaaaaally need to go pass out from exhaustion. I encourage as much effort from everyone else as possible.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:30 am
Like there’s 14 other players D1 and 12 others D2, there’s gonna be a lot of handwavey fluff interactions. I don’t see it as meaningful either way without meta that says one of them specifically interacts with partners that way, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a scum game from either one, so....it’s a big ol shrug and an “ok, sure.” from me.
Interactive analyses are a helpful tool in my opinion. Shouldn't be the end all be all, but they're worthwhile considerations.
I’m not saying they aren’t or that other people shouldn’t do them, just that I personally doubt I’m gonna get much out of it given my entire lack of meta knowledge regarding Radish’s and juliet’s scum games.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:30 am
Like there’s 14 other players D1 and 12 others D2, there’s gonna be a lot of handwavey fluff interactions. I don’t see it as meaningful either way without meta that says one of them specifically interacts with partners that way, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a scum game from either one, so....it’s a big ol shrug and an “ok, sure.” from me.
My vote is absolutely subject to change. If you have spoken to your town read of juliets elsewhere, feel free to point me to it.
Not more than briefly I think, it’s primarily a tone read. She reads exactly the same to me as last time I played with her, in GOC I think it must’ve been. Like she’s hitting all the same townie pings for me.
Tbh it’s also partly a function of who’s pushed on her, specifically chuck and now nutella. Not necessarily because they’re mafia (although I do think it’s nonzero they are), but also because I suspect their reads are fairly inverted this game if town.
These aren't very good reasons lol. She is very good at mimicking the same style as scum fyi. May be worth looking into a scum game of hers (Girl Genius comes to mind). And yeah my reads haven't been great so far in this game but do me a favor and look at the two posts where I assessed her and MR's interactions and just see what you think. They hardly talked about each other at all, and when they did it was quite handwavey and extremely compatible imo.
I’m barely reading this game I’m not gonna go read another one. And as a matter of principle I refuse to.
You can say “Jules has good tone regardless of alignment” but until I’m wrong I’m going to continue to TR her the way I have successfully before, small sample size be damned.
OK fine, but don't ignore the other thing I said. Give my case a look.
I don’t know how radishes or Jules normally handle partners so it’s pretty meaningless for me.
On radish's front I'd say we did a pretty dang good job of catching his teammates in the GOC based on interactive reads. And I know you like individual-specific reasons, but I'll argue that the way they treated each other here is more broadly very teammate compatible based on a general pattern of scum behavior. Plus, when you specifically compare it to how each of them treated almost everyone else, it's notably lacking. Like, when reading through MR's iso I found reasons to dissociate most other players from him, and juliets talked about most other players a fair amount as well. So the hole is gaping and conspicuous when it comes to their pairing.
Oh man I totally forgot he was mafia in that game! My memory is trash sometimes.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:30 am
Like there’s 14 other players D1 and 12 others D2, there’s gonna be a lot of handwavey fluff interactions. I don’t see it as meaningful either way without meta that says one of them specifically interacts with partners that way, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a scum game from either one, so....it’s a big ol shrug and an “ok, sure.” from me.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.
And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--
The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.
Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.
I don’t believe this stuff.
I really don't understand why you're not believing it. You just saw nutella in the baseball game with me. Talk to me about this some more.
I read part of the baseball game, didn’t see opportunism, called her town, died, was spoiled, was impressed, immediately began to see opportunism.
She’s actually not that deep in her scum meta here. I think Juliets is the only opportunistic push I’ve seen. Seen a lotta other shit that looks fake, though.
But yeah I do actually think they talked about each other less than they talked about most other players. I haven't quantified that, it's from a glance, but it felt like a significant difference when I looked for each other's names in their isos.
Like I’m not discouraging you from doing it, I’m not even telling you that you’re definitely wrong, I just don’t find it particularly helpful for me personally
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:57 pm
Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.
And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--
The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.
Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.
I don’t believe this stuff.
I really don't understand why you're not believing it. You just saw nutella in the baseball game with me. Talk to me about this some more.
I read part of the baseball game, didn’t see opportunism, called her town, died, was spoiled, was impressed, immediately began to see opportunism.
She’s actually not that deep in her scum meta here. I think Juliets is the only opportunistic push I’ve seen. Seen a lotta other shit that looks fake, though.
Duly noted, thanks Jack. I'll consider your perspective.
Alright alright, droopy MP7 is droopy. I'll uh keep my vote where it is for now but I'm open to further suggestions there. As for the secret vote, I'll make sure I'm around in plenty of time to coordinate and I've made my opinion on that made clear at least.
And I do actually think it's quite strong. That's a teammate interaction pairing if I've ever seen one.
No prob, Bob!
I still suspect Juliets even if she was the only one to explain her Sig vote.