Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Now that I'm more confident in juliets being scum, I feel better about townreading everyone else so much lol. Assuming there are 3 mafia, the third could just be one of the two nothing-slots and I can still be right with all my townreads, or if not then at worst I'm just wrong about one of them.


And YOU can be town, and YOU can be town, and--

The justification for being “confident in Juliets being scum” is so weak.

Radishes didn’t talk about her a bunch. Juliets asked a question and then didn’t follow up.

I don’t believe this stuff.

Do you have anything better?

It's strong enough for me, when I townread everyone else And I do actually think it's quite strong. That's a teammate interaction pairing if I've ever seen one.

I do.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, having known nutella for ~10 years now, I will give you all a little secret about the way I read her.

If she's at some point in the game annoyed the ever loving fuck out of me, she's probably town.

“Locktown” baby!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Why do you think my juliets push is opportunistic? Nobody else even talked about her before I did. It's an original case.

Because it’s weak and you’re pretending it’s strong.

[nutella]

Why do you think my juliets push is opportunistic? Nobody else even talked about her before I did. It's an original case.

Because it’s weak and you’re pretending it’s strong.

I think it's strong. We just disagree. I feel like you're using "opportunistic" wrong.

[nutella]

Yall I caught you a free scum and everyone's just ignoring me.

[nutella]

I guess we'll just see who's right in the end. If you must lynch me, just promise you'll lynch juliets next.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

“If you must lynch me” is pretty dramatic for someone with one vote on them

[nutella]

“If you must lynch me” is pretty dramatic for someone with one vote on them

I'm not too worried about it, but I recognize that a lot of people suspect me and if resolving me is what's going to get them to believe my juliets case and solve the game, so be it. Obviously I'd much rather we just lynch juliets today and see if I'm right.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like unflipped associative reads aside, Juliets is null. I read those posts and they don’t even move my Juliets needle. They give you a confident scumread on her. That smells to me.

I think Hyena believes his MP read even if it’s wrong.

I’m inclined to think Nutella doesn’t believe her Juliets read.

In the event I find myself shaken by flips not going how I plan on them going, I lose confidence. So if I was in Nutella’s shoes and I did find those posts suspicious, I’d be like “Sooooo maybe Juliets is scum. Idk. It’s the best I’ve got” not “I am confident in my scumread of Juliets so I’m keeping all the townreads I have even though I just lost my shit over an incorrect townread.”

It doesn’t feel like an actual town mindset.

Supposing Nutella is scum with MP. MP comes charging in. Nutella gives out an easy townread and then pushes on one of the null quartet off flimsy shit. That may not be what we’re seeing but that scenario feels consistent with Nutella’s actions and mindset in a way her being town doesn’t.

Or she’s scum and MP isn’t and figures she isn’t getting the lynch, accepts her pocket and shifts elsewhere. Also not necessarily the case but consistent.

[nutella]

I'm looking forward to speedchuck coming back in the morning to all this. I think it's like 50/50 whether he fully agrees with me on juliets or fully decides I'm scum.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean, you flipping town would have basically no bearing on my desire to kill juliets tbh.

[nutella]

Like unflipped associative reads aside, Juliets is null. I read those posts and they don’t even move my Juliets needle. They give you a confident scumread on her. That smells to me.

I think Hyena believes his MP read even if it’s wrong.

I’m inclined to think Nutella doesn’t believe her Juliets read.

In the event I find myself shaken by flips not going how I plan on them going, I lose confidence. So if I was in Nutella’s shoes and I did find those posts suspicious, I’d be like “Sooooo maybe Juliets is scum. Idk. It’s the best I’ve got” not “I am confident in my scumread of Juliets so I’m keeping all the townreads I have even though I just lost my shit over an incorrect townread.”

It doesn’t feel like an actual town mindset.

Supposing Nutella is scum with MP. MP comes charging in. Nutella gives out an easy townread and then pushes on one of the null quartet off flimsy shit. That may not be what we’re seeing but that scenario feels consistent with Nutella’s actions and mindset in a way her being town doesn’t.

Or she’s scum and MP isn’t and figures she isn’t getting the lynch, accepts her pocket and shifts elsewhere. Also not necessarily the case but consistent.

I don't know what to tell you. I believe in my scumread of juliets. It's an actual town mindset. Sorry.

Like, I was starting to suspect juliets before all this anyway. Even before MR's flip. It's not like I pulled this out of nowhere.

[Long Con]

I liked your juliets case, nutella. And MP is doing a lot of Civvish legwork. I also like the angle Jack was putting forth.... I was thinking about it myself. Would nutella double down on the townread of her teammates, given that the first one blew up in her face?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’ve got a death grip and this Juliets nullread.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*on this

[Long Con]

Like unflipped associative reads aside, Juliets is null. I read those posts and they don’t even move my Juliets needle. They give you a confident scumread on her. That smells to me.

I think Hyena believes his MP read even if it’s wrong.

I’m inclined to think Nutella doesn’t believe her Juliets read.

In the event I find myself shaken by flips not going how I plan on them going, I lose confidence. So if I was in Nutella’s shoes and I did find those posts suspicious, I’d be like “Sooooo maybe Juliets is scum. Idk. It’s the best I’ve got” not “I am confident in my scumread of Juliets so I’m keeping all the townreads I have even though I just lost my shit over an incorrect townread.”

It doesn’t feel like an actual town mindset.

Supposing Nutella is scum with MP. MP comes charging in. Nutella gives out an easy townread and then pushes on one of the null quartet off flimsy shit. That may not be what we’re seeing but that scenario feels consistent with Nutella’s actions and mindset in a way her being town doesn’t.

Or she’s scum and MP isn’t and figures she isn’t getting the lynch, accepts her pocket and shifts elsewhere. Also not necessarily the case but consistent.

I don't know what to tell you. I believe in my scumread of juliets. It's an actual town mindset. Sorry.

Like, I was starting to suspect juliets before all this anyway. Even before MR's flip. It's not like I pulled this out of nowhere.

I've pulled cases out of nowhere, as a result of thinking about the game somewhere else, and developing conclusions that I bring back to the thread. But is that the accusation? That you pulled it out of nowhere? Does "opportunistic" play into that idea a little?

[Long Con]

I’ve got a death grip [on] this Juliets nullread.

You should definitely work on that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’ve got a death grip [on] this Juliets nullread.

You should definitely work on that.

Her tone is so damn consistent.

Imma imo Radishes tomorrow.

[nutella]

My suspicion of juliets before MR flipped:

Spoiler: show

Juliets and DDL have similar problems. They haven't stood out or made any impact. I don't like that.

The more I think about it the worse I feel about juliets. She has shown the bare bones of her meta without any of the meat. Her most content-ful post was a lengthy justification of her sig vote after sig had flipped. Not great.

juliets' big moment of scumhunting this game was justifying her vote on Sig after Sig flipped.

I know it's juliets and she doesn't reallly... hunt. But I'm not sure how else we are supposed read her, assuming we can even read her.

Early game just isn't my thing. I hope that I'm better today.

DDL already called out the sig thing and she handwaved it without responding to the point.

Juliets and DDL have similar problems. They haven't stood out or made any impact. I don't like that.

The more I think about it the worse I feel about juliets. She has shown the bare bones of her meta without any of the meat. Her most content-ful post was a lengthy justification of her sig vote after sig had flipped. Not great.

Is this what you are talking about? I can't think of a game where I've made an impact Day 1. I acknowledge that you feel bad about me because of that. My justification for my sig vote after he flipped was because speedchuck requested we ALL talk about why we voted for the person we did. I don't know why you would see that as a bad thing.

It was an overly elaborate justification, and the only content you've produced. I get that it was answering a question, but one would think you could produce content that thorough about living players at some point.

I've got some swirling thoughts about DDL and juliets mixed in there as well. I'd love to hear more from both of them and especially about each other and Hyena/Nanook.

Then MR flipped and I started to think about her in relation to him:

@nutella, regarding Nanook:

He started the game out as the same Nanook I know from previous games where he's been civ. One liners and such.

He said he thought Tony was town because Tony leaned town for his thinking Alex Jones was town after you and Nanook said differently. I thought that was a decent read.

Said he was pro-lurker kills which for whatever reason surprised me but I didn't read that as bad.

He did not town read 112 as town because of her progression on MR and felt it was a way to just get him (Nanook) out of the game. He also said if he had his choice he would vote her or sig. I read 112 as town but we don't have to agree on reads to both be civs. Also, her progression on MR did turn out to be wrong. I could see why someone said he could have been on a team that killed her.

He didn't like your thoughts on needing to lynch MP because he would be impossible to get out later. I didn't really like that either so I don't see that as wrong headed.

Made a deal with Hyena to self preserve by voting for MR. It's not AI, he could have done that good or bad but I can't hold that against him. He then voted sig to self preserve and avoid a tie, I think that was in the last minutes.

Then there is the disagreement between you and he. I don't know what to make of that honestly. I don't think I've ever seen Nanook that frustrated. I don't know whether thats something that happens when he's bad or he's town or it's NAI. Can someone who's played with Nanook when he's bad weigh in on whether you see this as AI?

So in the end, I'm not seeing anything saying "scum" to mean loud letters but nutella I know you feel differently. It would be helpful if you could give me your read on his game so far.

Okay, thanks for responding. I need to think about him some more in light of the MR flip but in the case he is scum I do think that you are compatible with him which is why I asked for this. Will have to come back to this topic in a bit

And then later I did the actual interactive analysis and felt kinda like I struck gold.



How you can apply the term "opportunistic" to any of this is beyond me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Iso. Jesus. I’m a typo machine this game.

[Long Con]

To those of you still considering voting me, may I offer one other consideration.

I'm not even playing at anywhere remotely near 100% of my capacity, and I have almost 300 posts halfway-ish through Day 2. If that doesn't also suggest I'm town, then *shrug*.

One side of me says "he makes a good point". The other side says "I wish someone else had said it. This level of self-awareness only leads to the conclusion that he would be able to fake it."

I'll be honest, I feel like not voting you now. But Mafia isn't about feelings. I can distinctly recall you performing some very theatrical deceptions, so I know how far you can go to win the hearts and minds. With two lynches on the go (that was confirmed, right?), it's going to take a lot to find two players I suspect more than you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I will say at least one of Juliets or MP should be a wolf based on wagonomics.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I will say at least one of Juliets or MP should be a wolf based on wagonomics.

Ie five townie didn’t vote Sig while 3 votes were on a wolf.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Currently like


Speedchuck
Nanook
Tony
Hyena
LC

Sloonei
DDL
Wilgy

Juliets
MP
Nutella

Juliets or Nutella flipping scum will probably send the other way up my readlist.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk why mafia has to be on Sig wagon over mine? Both were close to as viable IIRC.

Maybe that’s my bias of TRing more people on Sig than me tho

[Long Con]

Yeah, but that second tier from the bottom is really just laying lower than the main group.

[nutella]

Not to get all hubrisy with my reads again but I really think I'm right lol. I look at the player list and feel like I have legitimately good reasons to believe most of them are town to the point that I think if we lynch juliets and the correct one of wilgy/sloonei, that's just game over we win. I keep wanting to second guess that because i really shouldn't be so confident in all the town reasons after what happened with MR, but most of them are based on much more substantial evidence now and I'm left with an easy POE. It can really be that simple sometimes, right?

[nutella]

Like if I'm right we legit just win this game this phase lmao.

[nutella]

The wilgy/sloonei thing does feel kind of bad though. Like that's just empty and if they start to see that I'm onto juliets they'd have to come and try. So I probably am wrong about one person. Sigh.

[Long Con]

I could try the juliets-Sloonei lynch.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean I get what you’re saying but I think normal logic may not entirely apply given that radishes wasn’t even around to self prez and we had/have two non entities. Seems entirely possible that in a 3 scum world a more active partner would feel compelled to vote radishes, especially if one of the non entities is mafia, yeah?

Like I’m not pushing that world but I think it’s entirely plausible.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Currently like


Speedchuck
Nanook
Tony
Hyena
LC

Sloonei
DDL
Wilgy

Juliets
MP
Nutella

Juliets or Nutella flipping scum will probably send the other way up my readlist.

can you give me two sentences on LC?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

Hey Tony, can you expand on both of these for me?

I think I've opened the last three games I've played with Juliets with a case against her very early, only to be told that's just Juliets. I think someone else did that in this game. I don't have any sense of Juliets' meta and it always strikes me in some ways as disingenuous -- consequently, I have no sense if cases against her carry real weight.

As for the latter, I think Hyena's placing too much emphasis in the last ten minutes of yesterday in which you were acting as an agent of chaos. The idea is that you overplayed acting as an agent of chaos in order to distract from the fact that you were saving your teammate from a lynch. Maybe, but a lot of people on the Sig Lynch did a lot worse than you did (me included) and haven't received the same kind of pressure. You're a capable player and I wouldn't put that kind of gambit past anyone, but I generally assume that scum tries to avoid the theatrical.
That assumption has gotten me burned in a few recent games. Maybe I should reconsider.

[Hyena]

But yeah, I also suspect that's why 112 was killed. 112 might've been on to something.

I'm going to try to say this without sounding rude, Hyena, because I really like you and your effort is commendable.

This is... low-level analysis type of conclusion at this stage in the game especially.

Just that part of my argument? Or the entire thing? If the latter...

Yeah, a lot of these quotes look really icky in retrospect. And lol the 112 stuff too

I'm sold. [VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine

Explain to me better what you were thinking here.

I just thought that it looked plausible that you were involved in saving MR -- the point about knowing Nanook would self-pres so you specifically chose sig to make the 4-4-4 made sense. In retrospect though I don't necessarily view your EOD behavior as having that much agenda to it though, we seemed to be in similar boats then just flailing around and spontaneously deciding to go for the tie there.

Also at the time Hyena made that case I was feeling so at sea after MR's flip that when I saw a case on my OG first suspect appear it was like a life preserver I could latch onto. At the time very few things were making sense to me and that seemed like it potentially could. The feeling faded when you returned and now I'm the captain of HMS Juliets.

Thanks, I appreciate this.

... why would you thank Nutella here for making a point similar to the main one I made? What's different in the way she laid out her points versus the way I laid out mine? Like, you didn't really seem to address the meat of why I thought you were scum -- you only addressed the minor points, like 112's suspicion of you and you coming off as panicked to me.

[Hyena]

Sorting people into don't want to vote and could vote today. There is not an order within groups:

Won't vote:
nutella
112
Hyena
MP7
LC
speedchuck
Jack (not on his anniversary even though I don't have a read on him)
DDL
MR
Nanook

Could vote:
Dr. Wilgy
Poison Chan - but probably not because he hasn't been here at all
sig
Tony

I have to go fix and eat dinner but before I go I'm putting a vote on sig.

Ok I'm back and see that we've gone from a lot of little wagons to MR as the main wagon. What did he do or what came to light?

Ok I'm back and see that we've gone from a lot of little wagons to MR as the main wagon. What did he do or what came to light?

I made a compromise. I didn't like how fast the Sig wagon grew, and although I suspect Nanook, I don't feel confident enough to vote him yet. I'd prefer a Tony lynch, but I can settle for MR given the current alternatives.

Thanks for explaining Hyena. I admit I'm torn on sig.

She pretended to be interested in why MR was getting votes but then didn't really acknowledge it afterward and instead focused on sig.


This was her only reaction to MR's sudden demise:

But also wtf just happened

A day vig?

Hardly even looks surprised.

...Aaaaaand that's all we got fellas. I'm not impressed.

juliets has moved from being just the only active player I don't actively townread to being an active suspect based on MR interactions and/or lack thereof.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

I like this case, as it doesn't rely on, like, tone(?) for a read on Juliets, but on something Juliet has actually done in the thread that looks sketchy in hindsight.

[Hyena]

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

By the way, I'm not ignoring this Tony. :P As much as I enjoy going at people, I'm actually going to decline this time.

[Hyena]

Can I vote for speedchuck then

Or maybe I’m too focused on the “people pushing me for bad reasons” genre

Are you talking about him suggesting that you might struggle as scum to come up with reasons to scumread town players? I remember thinking it was a bad reason, too, and correcting him on that. However, I didn't think the way he presented his reason was, like, opportunistic or scummy. Plus, he seemed to retract that opinion in a later post if I remember correctly?

[Hyena]

Okay, got some chores to do. Will be back later to finish catching up and stuff as well as post some thoughts.

[juliets]

[VOTE: JackofHearts2005] aubergine

I’m mechanically cleared.

“Nice try.”

As much as I hate to admit, this is probably true. Like, you could have pulled that as a gambit but if that's the case you deserve to win lol. I really really really want to think you are bad here because you're being so boneheadedly wrong about me, but I have to take the role thing into account and it just makes a hell of a lot more sense if you're town.



Juliets is bad though trust me. I did my homework.

Just like you did your homework on MR. You were wrong there and you are wrong here. You claim to be able to read my reactions, that is what is going on in my head such as when you said I showed no emotion when MR was killed. How do you know how I felt? Even if I was bad I would have still been shocked. I just didn't put my 'yippee' emotions in the thread. You've handed in your math homework for English class.

Anyway, I'm only concerned because we will lose a civ presence and vote if I get lynched. Personally, I asked before I signed up for this game when EODs would be and I was told 7 or 8 pm so I agreed to play. The fact that they are at 10 or 11 is a personal hardship for me and I would never have signed up had I known. We are running through our replacements so I won't try and replace out. Bottom line is personally I won't be fussed if you convince everyone I am the baddie here, even though I'm playing the same game I always play. As long as I'm in though I will fight your desire for a town lynch.

@Hyena you make a great case. And when I suggested MP might be trying to look civ with his first day behavior he said it was the silliest thing that had ever been said about him. Maybe not.

[VOTE: MPlus7] aubergine

What's great about it?

I really don't understand your sentences after the question. The "maybe not" reads particularly... unnatural, but I also realize you're juliets so I'm conflicted as to how to feel about that.

The "Maybe not" refers to your saying my take on your first day behavior was silly. I'm saying maybe it's not so silly after all. As for the case, Hyena's case was the strongest case I've seen on anyone this game. You said in another post it was weird that I didn't comment on it because I'm almost as verbose as you - lol, that's not my style though I don't mind it with you.

I still suspect Juliets even if she was the only one to explain her Sig vote.

Lol ok

Diction here is weird for juliets as well. I would have guessed this was Wilgy.

Discord's done a number on her.

So first off, it just struck me as funny that speedchuck asked for opinions from everyone, I'm the only one who responded yet Im the only one he picks out as scummy. I answered because I wanted to hear everyone's reasons too which I stated. Second, your comment is the second thing you've set about me that is probably true.

I have mixed feelings about MP this morning. Nanook's post where he says he thinks MP is town and has another reason for thinking that based on something he can't talk about from another game makes me think we are wrong about MP. I'll re-read Hyena's case because as I said above I think it's the best case that has been presented in the game.

For now these are the people I would not Lynch today in no particular order:

Hyena
Nanook
Jack
Tony
Speed

LC probably belongs in there too but I've forgotten why I cleared him so I just need to revisit that.

I also need to read DDL as I have no read on him right now.

Please feel free to ask me questions, I'll be around for another hour and a half or so.

Oh and since we agreed not to vote MP in the poll I will take my name off and put it in the non-players for the time being.

[juliets]

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] do you think MR was voting Tony for distance? I've somehow missed your reasons for putting a vote on him.

[juliets]

I like these posts by DDL. He was onto MR pretty early. I don't read them as distancing because I don't see a reason to distance at that time.

Did Nanook vote for me?

Yes, Nanook voted for you, and he still is!

Extra ugly, due to non-call in the thread.

I want to townread LC for not noticing a vote on him.

Either that or he's wolf/wolf with Nook.

"I want to townread LC".

Then do it. Townread him. Or not.

You just watched me play a very distinctive scumgame sir. Is it my town game you're missing?

read: compare this to my other scum game which is nothing like this one

You are being very uncharitable sir. I'll have you know my town games are nothing like this one either.

But i wanted to know what nanook thought of that

Tony and Nanook might be mafia partners. +112, that might be the scum team right there.

Dang you got us. Where’s the resign button

I wasn't very serious about the LC/Nook thing, but actually this post pings me. I feel the 'haha guess you got me' thing is such a scum thing to say here.

"I wasn't serious"

"this post actually pings me"

Then uses a superlative in the next post, to make it sound like he's sure LC is bad.

I wonder which over-discusser of 'spew' is the wolf?

Love this thought. Another townie point for LC.



Caveat: I've read LC wrong every game I've played with him.

Caveat: I'm full of shit.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

It's okay to be unsure about someone's alignment, but go ahead and say you are unsure. This feel like playing both sides at once.

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

Language is everything.

If you are sure LC is town say that. Don't add caveats. Don't theorize about him being w/w with someone then say you are "not very serious about it". The way you did it leaves it open for you to vote LC if other people do that later.

[juliets]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME do you think MR was voting Tony for distance? I've somehow missed your reasons for putting a vote on him.

Nanook so sorry I got confused looking at the votes. You don't have a vote on Tony so never mind my question.

[juliets]

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] please come and play today. I'm getting worried about your slot.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Master Radishes has been assassinated. He was People Who Feel Compelled to be on Tik Tok.

Like those who copy different dance moves, you may steal any person’s role during the Day, but you must use it that Night. You may not elect to refrain from using it. You need the attention. You will die without the attention.

You are mafia.

Carry on.

Fucking awesome.

And this is really a scum role. I hate those TikTok pyramid posts.

[112]

This is my favourite song of all time. Thank you for posting it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

If MR was scum I don't believe anything anymore. I have no beliefs. I am an apostate of the school of mafia. I give up.

Can I still say "I told you so?"

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So anyone wants to lynch the "lololololol lets tie the day 1 poll" crew?

Starting with MP and nutella.

Especially MP, who hopped his vote about 5 times before settling on Sig.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm still 300+ behind though so imma finish cathing up before I vote.

[juliets]

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

Tony, when were you right to suspect me?

[speedchuck]

Why do you think my juliets push is opportunistic? Nobody else even talked about her before I did. It's an original case.

Okay admittedly I didn't have the best case but gutttt