Space Invaders [END]

[Dyslexicon]

It's about my case on him.

That's what I thought. I hadn't retained that point in your case either. It's not a bad point, but I still feel there's other things that points to Proto being town. I'll look over Proto again at some point ig.

[Dyslexicon]

Just quickly another thing, though I'll go through Soneji in more detail if only for myself, but at least one player that he had interaction where he was critical or harsh is scum. Almost guaranteed. Meaningless interaction or harsh interaction is the most likely to be s/s.

[Dyslexicon]

Just quickly another thing, though I'll go through Soneji in more detail if only for myself, but at least one player that he had interaction where he was critical or harsh is scum. Almost guaranteed. Meaningless interaction or harsh interaction is the most likely to be s/s.

Plus, he's not likely to just ignore his teammates. Probably more so a bias towards interacting.

[Carotenoid]

Yeah aside from that specific point I think he's town. The thing is I just don't see how it can come from town so until there's a decent explanation it's suspicious.

[dunya]

i decided not to play mafia on my bday. i have a lot of catching up to do.

hi hally! thanks for the birthday message, i appreciate it. you can get a town pass tonight cos if it.

why do so many people suspect me, are you guys crazy or are you crazy? must be crazy ;p

[dunya]

i'm really in over my head signed up to 3 games at once at a week where office life has resumed for me. i apologize. i'm better than this.

[protocultures]

can someone reformulate the case from Carotenoid? I have tried reading this a few times and I dont get it. Ideally without reference to pronouns, just names every single time.

In relation to additional questions aimed at me.

"Have you considered that maybe Epi just thinks about it differently than you do? [yes, and I cant imagine a world where forum hall of famer town plays this way]

You know, there isn't really one way that is THE ONE TRUE way to play this setup. Even if you think so. [noted. If everyone played like epi, we would all save nutella every night because we each only know our own alignment and cant trust anyone else, and we blow 10 bunker saves night 1. This is good for town, yes? If I also decide to randomly unilaterally declarare a save on Nutella notwithstanding that there is a plan to reduce wasted bunker saves, this should lead people to townread me as well?]

I don't really get your Epi tunnel. [nobody seems to - why are not people townreading me for making an "obviously dumb read which indicates I am town"?]

Do you think scum would purposefully try to push a bad strategy on town openly? [yes and they are being TOWNREAD FOR IT] Cause I'd say that is pretty level 0 thinking from you. [I am level 0, this is entirely consistent with me being town]"

[Carotenoid]

[mention]protocultures[/mention]
Soneji's first post is #38.

@Soneji maybe u can give us good strategies to win this game since this isn't your first

No bad advice pls if you're a cheeky alien ;p

I have never played this setup, merely brainstormed with DDL a few months ago on how to improve the setup he found on another site. Haven't thought much yet about optimal strategy here, and DDL has made further changes from what we came to in our chat. Will look into it later.

Your first read of him is "Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment" (in post #140)

Soneji said he "[hasn't] thought" much about strategies, "will look into it later".

So. Where does this read comes from?

[Long Con]

What is it about Epi's play that's unimaginable?

[dunya]

macdougall is absolutely bad from his continued sr on me, regardless of drago. town mac sees town dunya. he's taking advantage of the new people in the thread. zap him next pls baby.

i wanna say i like craot more from her iso.

this is soneji's rainbow at a time he was not suspected 2nd post in the thread, at a time where drago was being heavily pushed. perfect bussing opp imo.

Good
proto
tutuu
Dunya

Still deciding
Nanook
Long Con
Carot
Dizzy
Bimbo(don't think they posted?)

Bad
Epi
TSP
Alison
Rej
Drago/Mac


he has three teammates. from his bad pile, and also posts directed towards them, i would keep rej and mac in my poe and take out alison. epi and tsp are towny to me before all this, tsp more than epi. rej's softball accusation on quoting soneji's mega post and then trying to engage him about "epi" is such a wolfy look for them both.

in his still deciding pool:
i'd sad nanook is still solid town for me. LC and Carot are meh based on interactions, but i like carot's iso and i haven't caught up with LC's posts yet. Dizzy and Hally can stay in the POE.

in his good pool:
tuutu and me are surely town, and his overeagerness to give a wordy defence of why proto is town is shady. proto can stay in my POE

my POE based on soneji's posts are:
Rej
Mac
Dizzy
Hally
Proto

now to do more reading.

[protocultures]

@protocultures
Soneji's first post is #38.

@Soneji maybe u can give us good strategies to win this game since this isn't your first

No bad advice pls if you're a cheeky alien ;p

I have never played this setup, merely brainstormed with DDL a few months ago on how to improve the setup he found on another site. Haven't thought much yet about optimal strategy here, and DDL has made further changes from what we came to in our chat. Will look into it later.

Your first read of him is "Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment" (in post #140)

Soneji said he "[hasn't] thought" much about strategies, "will look into it later".

So. Where does this read comes from?

Havent thought much = have thought about it more than zero and recognised there is a strategy to be found.

[tutuu]

The 3 maf are Tony, LC and Rej (imo)

[Hally]

idk if im convinced by that case. i agree that proto’s liiiiiiight townread of soneji for his first post wasnt deserved but idk that it strikes me as s/s. and dropping soneji to null after some time had passed and soneji hadnt posted again is reasonable given the town lean was very slight to begin with. the stuff right at EoD where he was like “dont shoot soneji shoot epi and if soneji is maf shoot me” is maybe negative against him because it seems almost intentionally wifomy. but it seems silly to go for that when there was really no point and it was more likely to make him look bad than anything. im not sure what he would think hed gain there

For his mafia teammate to not die and a townie to?

but i cant see how proto would actually think that he could get nut to shoot epi instead of soneji when she had already said she was shooting soneji and epi wasnt even on the list iirc. seems like a pointless losing battle

[protocultures]

What is it about Epi's play that's unimaginable?

its so openly selfish and uncooperative in a way where it is clear that town should be cooperating to increases chances of winning.

[dunya]

The 3 maf are Tony, LC and Rej (imo)

talk to me about tony?

[tutuu]

The 3 maf are Tony, LC and Rej (imo)

talk to me about tony?

he doesnt put himself out there like the other players

He doesnt enter fights

He doesnt push provocative reads and stuff

He just sits back and is chilling and is talking about mechanics from time to time

[protocultures]

"you guys do whatever you want, but I cant trust any of your plans because you might be aliens. My ONE job as a bunker is to save Nutella. I dont care that we discussed a plan to reduce wasted bunker shots on Night 1, I dont trust any of you or math or nothing. I am a bunker and I need to save Nutella. I insta lock in my save before anyone can say anything and then cast doubt on my own save to enocurage others to do the same because I might be an alien". Thats basically my TL;DR of their play so far and why i find it scummy.

[tutuu]

Dont shoot proto nutella i am over my annoyance however im adamant that cooperation between him and I (american english would say "him and me", in british english its "him and I" fwiw. i know this from the film scott pilgrimm vs the world) is impossible and my energy is better spent elsewhere

[dunya]

talk to me about tony?

he doesnt put himself out there like the other players

He doesnt enter fights

He doesnt push provocative reads and stuff

He just sits back and is chilling and is talking about mechanics from time to time

for my info, have you played with TSP before?

[dunya]

i hate being behind in games. really sucks the fun out of it for me.

[Hally]

Nutella you asked for strong views before you used your shot.

If you find me scummy, shoot me. You still have the difference check after I die.

why are you doing this though xD

Why am I doing this? In a game with no investigative role, its super valuable to get early camps/groups and identify people who can never be aligned. Epi said earlier if they die, shoot me next. I am reciprocating. Its not a difference check, but more like a non alien/alien check.

If I am wrong on Epi, and Epi doesnt die, its going to taint a lot of my reads on other people until they state their read on Epi is based on some meta i dont know about. Its not the worst thing in the world if I get shot because now my reads post flip are known to be pure.

i honestly dont get it. it seems more like you just disagree with his approach as opposed to actually finding him scummy? can you help me understand? because i feel like from the start you just decided epi was scum and are tunneling him and basing your whole view of the game around pre-flipping him as scum. and that is not really a great way to go about solving, but you’re obviously entitled to do as you want. anyway i still think youre town

[dunya]

Its not an alison thing its a person thing

Ppl tryhard as town more often than maf in games where stakes arent that high

Most ppl view playing maf as a chore and if ur town u can do whatever u want

i might agree with this logic in a normal mafia game, but not in this setup. we have no PRs, no investigations, no trackers, nothing. all we have to do is lock ourselves town and look super towny to be off the table.

i expect a lot of tryhards in this game.

[tutuu]

talk to me about tony?

he doesnt put himself out there like the other players

He doesnt enter fights

He doesnt push provocative reads and stuff

He just sits back and is chilling and is talking about mechanics from time to time

for my info, have you played with TSP before?

No

[protocultures]

Nutella you asked for strong views before you used your shot.

If you find me scummy, shoot me. You still have the difference check after I die.

why are you doing this though xD

Why am I doing this? In a game with no investigative role, its super valuable to get early camps/groups and identify people who can never be aligned. Epi said earlier if they die, shoot me next. I am reciprocating. Its not a difference check, but more like a non alien/alien check.

If I am wrong on Epi, and Epi doesnt die, its going to taint a lot of my reads on other people until they state their read on Epi is based on some meta i dont know about. Its not the worst thing in the world if I get shot because now my reads post flip are known to be pure.

i honestly dont get it. it seems more like you just disagree with his approach as opposed to actually finding him scummy? can you help me understand? because i feel like from the start you just decided epi was scum and are tunneling him and basing your whole view of the game around pre-flipping him as scum. and that is not really a great way to go about solving, but you’re obviously entitled to do as you want. anyway i still think youre town

I base my reads on people's play. If they play in a way that is anti town wincon, I read them as scummy.

[Hally]

I think epi is town because he pushed that im scum

And im consensus townread by like evryone

So if he was scum he would maybe read the room temperature a bit better and realize scumreading me would seem silly to most other ppl?

So if u think im town, u should maybe think epi is town too

yea maybe. proto even more so is town by the same reasoning for screaming for epi’s head despite no one (including and most importantly nut) having any desire to kill him

[protocultures]

Dont shoot proto nutella i am over my annoyance however im adamant that cooperation between him and I (american english would say "him and me", in british english its "him and I" fwiw. i know this from the film scott pilgrimm vs the world) is impossible and my energy is better spent elsewhere

I still have no idea why you got so triggered.

Interesting you wont answer my questions. People can/should read into your avoidance.

I can ignore you if you prefer because in the end, its a freakin game on the internet.

Ive seen people fake emotion in video mafia.

This doesnt seem fake, this just seems like part of your personality so its whatever.

[Hally]

I don't think I'm nutella's "one true protector." That's silly. What I'm saying is that I'm going to protect her and already did. All other bunkers can protect one another. I understand if you don't believe me and want to hedge on that. Don't, but I understand if you do.

oh i wasn’t saying i don’t believe you! i didn’t mean it in a bad way. i actually think the mindset is more townish than not

This is the level 0 mindset that I cant assign to Epi with their postcount. I would think its more towny if they were a new player.

but town can have level 0 mindsets too (and i dont really even think this is). but i think you are failing to see that how he is going about having that mindset and the mindset itself are more likely to come from town than not. that alone doesnt make him town per se but it isnt a point against him in my book. but maybe we will just have to agree to disagree here

[dunya]

Soneji
Proto
LC
Hally

works fine.

Soneji is the only one of these four names I would consider shooting D1. Proto is high effort on mech/strategy and seems +ev so far. I gut townread LC. Hally just got here and I want to give them a chance to play.

what the hell are all these abbreviations mean what is +ev

[tutuu]

Queen Nutella
Tutuu
Hally - idk they post a lot of stuff and they seem to know whats up
Dizzy - same
Proto - cuz dizzy says so
Epi - i said why and hally said everyone else says so
McDougall - rly towny attitude

Nanook - i thought hes onb town but hes maybe not as obv town anymore as the other obv towns at least from my pov?
dunya - idk i was convinced shes town but ppl r now disagreeing and im not brave enough to be different this is just like how i was in highschool man. im being forced into peer pressure here
Alison - same as dunya?

LC - i see no reason to tr them?
Tony - same
Rej - same

Im forgetting 1 person sry

also @ dizzy im less enthusiastic now because i was just more enthusiastic before cuz u know i just see a new community and i havent played mafia in a while and stuff and now im just being in my normal mood

[Hally]

Dyslexicon – I feel like they might be intentionally trying to look not massively town and aim for the middle of the pack between town and alien to avoid getting night KP on them.

Words hurt.
I'm literally playing straight up town. @Hally - Look what can happen here! Last game I played they even yeeted SuperTown!Scirrus. Like, when Scirrus is Scirrus and can't be anything but town. It's fun, really. =p

its ok bb im here for you dont listen to the haters

[tutuu]

Right carotte is like in the dunya tier for me

[protocultures]

Soneji
Proto
LC
Hally

works fine.

Soneji is the only one of these four names I would consider shooting D1. Proto is high effort on mech/strategy and seems +ev so far. I gut townread LC. Hally just got here and I want to give them a chance to play.

what the hell are all these abbreviations mean what is +ev

+EV is positive expected value

[dunya]

wow, even tuutu now lost faith in me. i mean i wouldn't be too upset if i get killed or zapped tbh i'm exhausted.

[Hally]

Shoot proto tommorow

Why?

He is annoying me. Maybe he could even be maf but that would just be a bonus

if you arent town this game i will riot

[tutuu]

wow, even tuutu now lost faith in me. i mean i wouldn't be too upset if i get killed or zapped tbh i'm exhausted.

Damn

Im really really sorry

[protocultures]

dunya just fell off slightly due to not posting for a period of time. thats it.

[tutuu]

I didnt even meant to click that sad emoji it was a coincidence but what a fitting coincidence

[Long Con]

What is it about Epi's play that's unimaginable?

its so openly selfish and uncooperative in a way where it is clear that town should be cooperating to increases chances of winning.

"you guys do whatever you want, but I cant trust any of your plans because you might be aliens. My ONE job as a bunker is to save Nutella. I dont care that we discussed a plan to reduce wasted bunker shots on Night 1, I dont trust any of you or math or nothing. I am a bunker and I need to save Nutella. I insta lock in my save before anyone can say anything and then cast doubt on my own save to enocurage others to do the same because I might be an alien". Thats basically my TL;DR of their play so far and why i find it scummy.

I don't see it as an issue because that is the personality shtick that Epi has cultivated over the years. I fully support you yanking hard on this thread though. Good to have fresh eyes. Just don't expect him to dance.

Dont shoot proto nutella i am over my annoyance however im adamant that cooperation between him and I (american english would say "him and me", in british english its "him and I" fwiw. i know this from the film scott pilgrimm vs the world) is impossible and my energy is better spent elsewhere

I was taught to take out the other person. If you say "You should pick me!" then you'd say "You should pick him and me!", and saying "I am going to the slugmarket" would inform you to say "He and I are going to the slugmarket". I don't know if "him and I" is ever good. Epi is an English teacher though, maybe he'll weigh in. Never heard of the British/American divide on that one.

[tutuu]

happy birthday @dunya im sorry for removing u from my top town read

Maybe this is a lesson for me to be more brave and insist on what i think is right

[dunya]

Let's look at the players who have it in for Mac.

Dunya - Dunya is actually bad at mafia and has everyone fooled
Alison - Probably just mafia
Rej - Obviously mafia

Have I missed anyone?

wow ok

[Hally]

I don't think Hally actually really understands Carot's point tbh. The issue isn't the light town read. It's the fact that you said you had the light townread because Soneji was offering mech solving which Soneji literally didn't do. Like, literally to the point of the actual post Soneji made being "I actually haven't played this game and can't offer mech solves". You mischaracterised a flip scum in a way that made them seem townier than they should have been being read. Your read was made up.

no i do get it! but i think it would be very silly for proto to intentionally mischaracterize a teammates post in order to town read them. it would just be kinda dumb to lie intentionally when the post is there in the thread for everyone to see. more likely he just misinterpreted what soneji said

[tutuu]

Dunya





Nutella
Everyone else

Anyone who disagrees is terrible at mafia

[Carotenoid]

Hmn okay I think protocultures is town.

Alison is still alien.

[protocultures]

What is it about Epi's play that's unimaginable?

its so openly selfish and uncooperative in a way where it is clear that town should be cooperating to increases chances of winning.

"you guys do whatever you want, but I cant trust any of your plans because you might be aliens. My ONE job as a bunker is to save Nutella. I dont care that we discussed a plan to reduce wasted bunker shots on Night 1, I dont trust any of you or math or nothing. I am a bunker and I need to save Nutella. I insta lock in my save before anyone can say anything and then cast doubt on my own save to enocurage others to do the same because I might be an alien". Thats basically my TL;DR of their play so far and why i find it scummy.

I don't see it as an issue because that is the personality shtick that Epi has cultivated over the years. I fully support you yanking hard on this thread though. Good to have fresh eyes. Just don't expect him to dance.

Dont shoot proto nutella i am over my annoyance however im adamant that cooperation between him and I (american english would say "him and me", in british english its "him and I" fwiw. i know this from the film scott pilgrimm vs the world) is impossible and my energy is better spent elsewhere

I was taught to take out the other person. If you say "You should pick me!" then you'd say "You should pick him and me!", and saying "I am going to the slugmarket" would inform you to say "He and I are going to the slugmarket". I don't know if "him and I" is ever good. Epi is an English teacher though, maybe he'll weigh in. Never heard of the British/American divide on that one.

thanks for a response that helps me understand their meta and why they are being townread for it.

[dunya]

Dunya





Nutella
Everyone else

Anyone who disagrees is terrible at mafia

eeeeeee. ily.



on another note, i retract my town read on alison based on sloneji interactions. something feels very eloquently forced about her posts and i don't really like it. the posts feel like an alien trying too hard to justify every action rather than not caring how every single thing they do is perceived because you know, they're town.

like this post: it feels like an essay on how to write and edit a perfect sounding post that no one can pick apart for any reason.

1) Why put effort for Dizzy and not Epi?

Because Epi meta wouldn't have helped unless I was willing to go to much farther lengths than I had the time, energy or inclination to. The thing with Dizzy was that I was checking up on specific, easily checkable behaviors - having a lot of townreads as town, general belief in the correctness of throwing around towncred left and right, not bussing their partners hard as scum. For Epi, my confusion was that I needed to know Epi as a player or maybe even as a person to untangle the mess of claims/hostility/rapid-fire volley of shots they took at me, and figure out how that impacted their alignment one way or another. That isn't something you can check just by skimming through a few ISOs - you'd basically have to read the entire game or get to know them properly to figure that out.

2) I suspected Dragomir in the first place primarily because the response to some people scumreading him was for Dizzy (who I theorized to be his wolf partner) to immediately bus him (or so I thought at the time). This is why when I put Dizzy and Dragomir down as scum on my initial list, I listed them together - because my theory was that they were specifically wolf buddies together and Dizzy was bussing him. I've later come into evidence about Dizzy's meta that shows that Dizzy's actions weren't necessarily a bus, which means that particular reason for suspecting Dragomir is out the window.

Later on, my suspicions on the Dragomir/MacDougall slot were renewed by MacDougall's behavior. As much as we try to keep out of game stuff from influencing out reads, the fact is that if someone is under pressure and subs out, they're >rand to be wolf (because town would be more likely to be like "okay losers, here's my reads, sheep me after I flip green"). MacDougall came into a slot like that and immediately started exhibiting a whole bunch of anti-town behavior. I put two and two together, and they add up to a scumread on Mac.

i realize she was addressing questions, but it's just a way of being perceived that sits weird with me.

[Hally]

I will add I feel extremely positive that Hally is town. She's like a shining beacon of town spark.

You have clearly never played with Hally lol

There's not one player I'm more paranoid about. You have no idea of the horrors I've seen. Sorry, Hally, but it's just the truth. BUT, that said, I mindmeld a lot with Hally here and can't find anything disagreeable with their process. So that is at least a good thing. Have no reason to think scum. They seem excited to solve. Likely town.

dizzy trying to make everyone paranoid of me smh. its ok though i still love you

[MacDougall]

Let's look at the players who have it in for Mac.

Dunya - Dunya is actually bad at mafia and has everyone fooled
Alison - Probably just mafia
Rej - Obviously mafia

Have I missed anyone?

wow ok

I don't mean that. you're the best player I know.

[dunya]

Agh mobile submission ate my post.

I don't like the shot on Soneji but don't have any super support for why not. Just here for the town cred post flip I guess.

in today's episode of posts that did not age well.

i could town read proto off of this tbh, but i have not isod them yet and i am scared to do so.

[protocultures]

I will add I feel extremely positive that Hally is town. She's like a shining beacon of town spark.

You have clearly never played with Hally lol

There's not one player I'm more paranoid about. You have no idea of the horrors I've seen. Sorry, Hally, but it's just the truth. BUT, that said, I mindmeld a lot with Hally here and can't find anything disagreeable with their process. So that is at least a good thing. Have no reason to think scum. They seem excited to solve. Likely town.

dizzy trying to make everyone paranoid of me smh. its ok though i still love you

Hally, if you are an alien, I dont even mind losing to you. I would just say "well played".

[dunya]

I will add I feel extremely positive that Hally is town. She's like a shining beacon of town spark.

You have clearly never played with Hally lol

There's not one player I'm more paranoid about. You have no idea of the horrors I've seen. Sorry, Hally, but it's just the truth. BUT, that said, I mindmeld a lot with Hally here and can't find anything disagreeable with their process. So that is at least a good thing. Have no reason to think scum. They seem excited to solve. Likely town.

dizzy trying to make everyone paranoid of me smh. its ok though i still love you

i actually find that dizzy post very scummy. if they find hally town, it's extremely counterproductive to make someone retract their town read on hally based on meta or paranoia. if dizzy had actually said they dont think hally is town, i can see motive.

i don't like that at all, the timing is bad.