Space Invaders [END]

[protocultures]

when is EoD?

roughly 12 hours from now I think

[protocultures]

my sole mission is this game is to bury rej and i must be alive D2 to see this through

I am back.
I see Hally got killed and I saw this weird post. I was on her shotlist and idk how. I wish things had ended differently.

Seems like a simple frame kill to me. I am not interpreting much into the night kill but I am really curious about what others have to say about it.

I am at work but once I read all opinions about the NK, I might get a fresh and super cool PoE!

Hally was a widely townread player, what makes you jump to "frame kill" as opposed to "this player was killed because they were widely townread"?

Frame kill, because Hally suspected me before she said Sayonara, tho one could think it would be profitable for me to kill people that suspect me if I were scum, but nah
I am bashed by everyone anyway.

This is how they welcome back Rej

I am a Bunker and if anyone wanna know who I protected last night, it was Epi

Why did you use a bunker save at all?

Why did you think Epi would be an alien target?

Did you read the arguments for/against using bunker saves on non-nutella people?

Where did you land on those arguments?

Do you think you made yourself a higher laser target for Day 2 because you now only have 3 bunker saves remaining?

[Rej]

my sole mission is this game is to bury rej and i must be alive D2 to see this through

I am back.
I see Hally got killed and I saw this weird post. I was on her shotlist and idk how. I wish things had ended differently.

Seems like a simple frame kill to me. I am not interpreting much into the night kill but I am really curious about what others have to say about it.

I am at work but once I read all opinions about the NK, I might get a fresh and super cool PoE!

Hally was a widely townread player, what makes you jump to "frame kill" as opposed to "this player was killed because they were widely townread"?

Frame kill, because Hally suspected me before she said Sayonara, tho one could think it would be profitable for me to kill people that suspect me if I were scum, but nah
I am bashed by everyone anyway.

This is how they welcome back Rej

I am a Bunker and if anyone wanna know who I protected last night, it was Epi

Why did you use a bunker save at all?

Why did you think Epi would be an alien target?

Did you read the arguments for/against using bunker saves on non-nutella people?

Where did you land on those arguments?

Do you think you made yourself a higher laser target for Day 2 because you now only have 3 bunker saves remaining?

It is easy why I used a shot, I suspected Epi to be a mafia target this NP and I thought I wouldn't make it far, also if I would had blocked the kill surprisingly people would clear me. So I gambled. Like my only chance.
Also I didn't worry much when I saw that the Soneji flip, so I thought it was okay.

Since I wanted to play the game and since I try to avoid two things:
Getting shot by mafia and getting lynched.
Tho I have an asswork to do and it is hard to avoid latter one...


[mention]Epignosis[/mention] yo I listened to your music on bandcamp and it is dope, will you move me out of your PoE? like lock me town?

[Rej]

I wish night chat would be a one shot ability from a PR...but this is not the case

[Rej]

If anyone has any objection to rej getting pew pewed speak now

I have, move me out of your PoE and I will bunker protect you

[Long Con]

Tony, don't you think that everyone revealing their bunker saves gives the aliens too much info?

[protocultures]

my sole mission is this game is to bury rej and i must be alive D2 to see this through

I am back.
I see Hally got killed and I saw this weird post. I was on her shotlist and idk how. I wish things had ended differently.

Seems like a simple frame kill to me. I am not interpreting much into the night kill but I am really curious about what others have to say about it.

I am at work but once I read all opinions about the NK, I might get a fresh and super cool PoE!

Hally was a widely townread player, what makes you jump to "frame kill" as opposed to "this player was killed because they were widely townread"?

Frame kill, because Hally suspected me before she said Sayonara, tho one could think it would be profitable for me to kill people that suspect me if I were scum, but nah
I am bashed by everyone anyway.

This is how they welcome back Rej

I am a Bunker and if anyone wanna know who I protected last night, it was Epi

Why did you use a bunker save at all?

Why did you think Epi would be an alien target?

Did you read the arguments for/against using bunker saves on non-nutella people?

Where did you land on those arguments?

Do you think you made yourself a higher laser target for Day 2 because you now only have 3 bunker saves remaining?

It is easy why I used a shot, I suspected Epi to be a mafia target this NP and I thought I wouldn't make it far, also if I would had blocked the kill surprisingly people would clear me. So I gambled. Like my only chance.
Also I didn't worry much when I saw that the Soneji flip, so I thought it was okay.

Since I wanted to play the game and since I try to avoid two things:
Getting shot by mafia and getting lynched.
Tho I have an asswork to do and it is hard to avoid latter one...


@Epignosis yo I listened to your music on bandcamp and it is dope, will you move me out of your PoE? like lock me town?

I am unmoved by your explanation. My summary of your answers as I understand them are below. Please correct/elaborate to assist me in finding you non-alien.

Why did you use a bunker save at all? Wanted to play the game (suboptimally but okay), thought landing a save would clear you (it wouldnt).

Why did you think Epi would be an alien target? "I suspected Epi to be a mafia target this NP" is a reformulation of the question into a statement, and doesnt go to the why aspect at all.

Did you read the arguments for/against using bunker saves on non-nutella people? This is totally ignored so please address this.

Where did you land on those arguments? This is totally ignored so please address this.

[protocultures]

Explain your logic for why landing save would clear you.

Nobody help them please.

Want to hear their own thoughts.

[protocultures]

Tony, don't you think that everyone revealing their bunker saves gives the aliens too much info?

Town needs the info too and think on early days its fine to share with aliens.

Need to track who has 3 and 4 bunkersaves remaining as the people with 4 bunkersaves should be in the pool to protect Nutella in the night.

Also we can question people as to why they did what they did.

[Alison]

I don't think there was a wolf pushing for Soneji to die. Does that clear anyone?

It clears you. :P

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tony, don't you think that everyone revealing their bunker saves gives the aliens too much info?

No. Do you?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don't think there was a wolf pushing for Soneji to die. Does that clear anyone?

It clears you. :P

Anybody else? I'm hoping so. Someone has cred that they're not receiving if so.

[tutuu]

Okay, generally providing role information is bad becuase it gives scum better ability to adapt, but given that it's day 1 and everyone has at least three bunkers left,

EVERYONE WHO USED A BUNKER LAST NIGHT, PLEASE REVEAL THIS INFO.

bullshit

this is only relevant if we stopped the alien kill

we did not

there is literally nothing to gain

[tutuu]

unless your plan was for us to lie (as town) to fool the aliens in which case my bad I guess. i just dont like doing stuff like that

i dont like organized lying as town and i dont like unnecessary outing of info as town aswell

[Long Con]

Tony, don't you think that everyone revealing their bunker saves gives the aliens too much info?

No. Do you?

I'm concerned enough about it to not just blurt it out. In a few days, it's going to matter a lot who has shots left and who used theirs up. It's not unlikely that this information will decide who wins the game.

[tutuu]

(repeating) im protecting nutella tonight

[Dyslexicon]

Killing Hally is garbage.

I realised I have almost no time to play at all this day, since it's 24 hours phases.

I have 15 min to skim - @ me for instructions/questions/requests please

[Long Con]

(repeating) im protecting nutella tonight

I don't like this. I don't trust it. This is how the Aliens kill nutella. nutella is supposed to dictate the saves for a reason. You could easily be an Alien trying to subvert the plan to get through. Epignosis as well, really. It worked so well on Night 1, Epi went rogue and everyone accepted it. Time for phase two of the plan, follow the Epi "I do what I want" strategy, and maybe the rest of us will just say, "Well, okay, fine, as long as SOMEONE is protecting her!" If we get two people (Epi, tutuu) forcing the issue, how many people does that leave for nutella to pick? How many will she pick? How safe is that.

[tutuu]

(repeating) im protecting nutella tonight

I don't like this. I don't trust it. This is how the Aliens kill nutella. nutella is supposed to dictate the saves for a reason. You could easily be an Alien trying to subvert the plan to get through. Epignosis as well, really. It worked so well on Night 1, Epi went rogue and everyone accepted it. Time for phase two of the plan, follow the Epi "I do what I want" strategy, and maybe the rest of us will just say, "Well, okay, fine, as long as SOMEONE is protecting her!" If we get two people (Epi, tutuu) forcing the issue, how many people does that leave for nutella to pick? How many will she pick? How safe is that.

ok

[Alison]

(repeating) im protecting nutella tonight

I don't like this. I don't trust it. This is how the Aliens kill nutella. nutella is supposed to dictate the saves for a reason. You could easily be an Alien trying to subvert the plan to get through. Epignosis as well, really. It worked so well on Night 1, Epi went rogue and everyone accepted it. Time for phase two of the plan, follow the Epi "I do what I want" strategy, and maybe the rest of us will just say, "Well, okay, fine, as long as SOMEONE is protecting her!" If we get two people (Epi, tutuu) forcing the issue, how many people does that leave for nutella to pick? How many will she pick? How safe is that.

nutella picked 3 people to protect her last night and they did so in addition to Epi. I see no reason why she wouldn't do the same thing today. Just because tutuu says she is protecting nutella doesn't change that, just like Epi's declaration that he was protecting nutella didn't change it, either. So I don't see how tutuu saying she'll protect nutella is subverting anything.

[Dyslexicon]

I just brought you down to my level that time. You went slummin'.

I don't know why Dizzy is getting so uptight about his placement on my list. I don't even have any power here.

Nice shade. I'm "uptight" because I wonder about YOUR thought process. I don't give a duck if I don't have power to kill anyone, I'm going to scum hunt as normal. Instead of dodging, explain yourself or get yeeted.

RIP Hally, you will be missed.

You can still answer all the direct questions they had to you.

The answer is no, never.

For my ref so I can use this in the future for meta.

I kind of just want to believe this, because I'm simple.
There's three scum, so one might be outvoted, but this seems more likely to just be the truth.
I'm not giving LC a pass though, as he even listen Hally as a laser target when Hally had just subbed in.

The name that stands out here to me is tutuu. Their general demeanour has been quite weird since the Soneji flip. They feel like a hit to me. Their reaction to dunya's ate was super opportunistic and weird buddying.

This has been in the back of my mind too. Their attitude after Soneji died was drastically different imo.

---

I'm not sure if I like Epi now. He picks out weird things like to Carrotte "Do you know Dizzy can protect???" Weak. "Tony, there are 4 scum hmm!" Weak.

[Long Con]

I think it's mostly to do with that things earlier on where you said you think we have four protects each.

[Long Con]

I remember reading some reactions to that and agreeing that it was suspicious.

[Long Con]

I'm not so sure about Epi anymore either, after thinking about a few things. Making us believe that Nutella is protected when she is not is one of the best strategies that aliens can use.

[tutuu]

i dont understand how am i getting shade. you cant all be maf. did i overestimate how much i was consensus towncleared? i dont rly know what to say

[Long Con]

i dont understand how am i getting shade. you cant all be maf. did i overestimate how much i was consensus towncleared? i dont rly know what to say

Well, I mean, I explained why I think that subverting the defense plan is suspicious, because it is a good way for the aliens to lull us into complacency, thinking she's protected, when she's not so protected.

Does your confusion include my suspicion of you? I thought I stated my reason comprehensively.

[Long Con]

Or are you just so sure that you need to be read as Town that the only possible reason to doubt you would be because I'm an alien?

[dunya]

I am still adamant carot is not doing helpful carot townie things. Discuss?

[tutuu]

i dont understand how am i getting shade. you cant all be maf. did i overestimate how much i was consensus towncleared? i dont rly know what to say

Well, I mean, I explained why I think that subverting the defense plan is suspicious, because it is a good way for the aliens to lull us into complacency, thinking she's protected, when she's not so protected.

Does your confusion include my suspicion of you? I thought I stated my reason comprehensively.

dude what are you even fucking writing

"tutuu wants to be one of the nutella defenders. tutuu MIGHT be scum because she is not confirmed town. therefore its scummy of tutuu to suggest it"

thats how i perceive the thing you are writing and i might be wrong but i am cringing

like, do you even have a read on me? if u think i might be scum independently then fair enough

if you didnt think im scum beforehand then this is just cringe

[Dyslexicon]

I believe Dizzy is also cleared btw, I know there's an argument to be made for him wanting cred off it but I just straight up dont think he'd have killed them n1

Please explain? Cos my first thought was dizzy did this so Hally couldn't sus him out, then I thought hmmm maybe frame job? But I'm leaning former?

Do I have to smack you in your face with my role card in order for you to stop this nonsense? Hally dying doesn't clear me, but Hally screaming in your face that I'm obvious town, which should honestly be obvious already, does clear me. Hally is never wrong there. They know me in and out. Again you're starting with a bad assumption and building worlds from there. Simplest and most obvious solution is that me and Hally have played 100 town games together where we always work well together and always mindmeld and therefor can read each other super well. Hally can read me better than I can read them, cause Hally is a little bit stronger as scum. You're totally turning this on its head. Hally ALREADY didn't sus me out and they would've if I was scum. If you're town, which I think you are now, why don't you just take the simple clear? I know I'm spending a lot of energy on this, but I just can't fathom the stubbornness.

I think it's mostly to do with that things earlier on where you said you think we have four protects each.

What about that? I have no idea what could be perceived scummy about it. I said I think 4 cause I was in the middle of catching up and I had reads something about "running out of protects on D5" so then I assumed 4, which it is. I didn't check my role, but I could. What is the problem? And I have a ton of other content.

---

I want to believe Dunya when she say she wouldn't want to kill Hally. Other than that I don't see a point of wifoming over the kill. It's not really a strange kill. There's 3 people who made that decision for whatever reasons.

I also half or maybe more than half want to believe Rej when he says he protected Epi.
[mention]Rej[/mention] If you are town, I would urge you to see if there's anyone who has not given much of an opinion on you or not been so vocal about suspicion towards you and rather just let it happen. Only you know if you're town. You've been a consensus scum read, an in my experience scum would rather sit back a bit and let town hand themselves or just float the suspicion rather than being the main aggressor. [mention]nutella[/mention] Can see if she agrees with this or not, in the case Rej is town.

I'm actually interested in checking Tutu out.

If Dunya is not scum, and if Rej is actually town as well (just from the feeling I could see him actually protecting Epi there) then rip reads. Not sure about Rej. Dunya I'm just bying the kill thing, rip me.

I don't have more time. I'm sorry.

[Dyslexicon]

I am still adamant carot is not doing helpful carot townie things. Discuss?

Maybe. I'm glad nut has the laser. She did good last day. Obv will hit scum again

[tutuu]

hally was consensus townread and died with 4 bunker shots because of the dumbass plan

i (thought) im the next biggest consensus townread and im dying tonight hence i wanted to at least do something but i guess im no longer consensus townread after a quarter of the game start shading me

u guys do what u want im sure u know what youre doing

[Dyslexicon]

I'm bitching and moaning, but I'm super stressed. And I feel like this game deserves more attention, but I just can't with it being 24 hours. I trust Nut's decisions more anyway. I have more time on Sunday.

[dunya]

Alright Dizzy, let's say I believe you.

My poe goes back to
Alison
Carot
Rej
LC
(MAComir) <---- I cannot suspect him tho.

I had reasons to TR nanook but I don't remember them now. I'll check back and ISO them but feels townie GTH.

I guess I could do with a new ISO of Tony but I was townreading him and nutella is too so meh.

Tutuu is super town. I won't sway on that.

[protocultures]

(repeating) im protecting nutella tonight

I don't like this. I don't trust it. This is how the Aliens kill nutella. nutella is supposed to dictate the saves for a reason. You could easily be an Alien trying to subvert the plan to get through. Epignosis as well, really. It worked so well on Night 1, Epi went rogue and everyone accepted it. Time for phase two of the plan, follow the Epi "I do what I want" strategy, and maybe the rest of us will just say, "Well, okay, fine, as long as SOMEONE is protecting her!" If we get two people (Epi, tutuu) forcing the issue, how many people does that leave for nutella to pick? How many will she pick? How safe is that.

This so much. Glad someone else sees what I see.

If everyone just does what they want, town loses. The end.

I predict Epi is going to do the same thing again and get townread again. Its so frustrating.

Now tutuu wants to do the same thing. They dont even realise why its bad. How am I supposed to read into that. Wilful ignorance? Alien? stubbornness? distrust of math?

We have 24 hours to ask questions if people have any, nobody asks question, they just do random things which have been discussed and concluded as bad for town.

if they think it is not bad for town, they havent voiced any option on it.

Theres 3 aliens left and 9 bunkers. In Night 2, aliens have 2KP, so we need to land at least 2 saves onto Nutella.

If we decide to go with the Nutella picking strategy, the math looks something like this assuming we use a pick 4 strategy. If I made a mistake, feel free to ping it out - towncredit available. trying to recall highschool is hard.

4 towns: 9/12 x 8/11 x 7/10 x 6/9 = 3,024/11,880 = 25% (safe outcome)

3 towns/1 alien: 9/12 x 8/11 x 7/10 x 3/9 x 4 combos = 6,048/11,880 = 51% (safe outcome)

2 town/2 alien: 9/12 x 8/11 x 3/10 x 2/9 x 6 combos = 2,592/11,880 = 22% (safe outcome)

1 town/3 alien: 9/12 x 3/11 x 2/10 x 1/9 x 4 combos = 216/11,880 = 1.8% (Nutella dies if aliens stack 2KP)

If anyone has questions, happy to talk through it.

We got lucky hitting an alien day 1, so this helps out a lot for Night 2.

Anyone still want to waste random bunker saves other than those nominated by Nutella? Other than Epi because 1.8% is greater than zero so they need to use their save every night obviously.

[Alison]

LC attacking Epi and tutuu for horrible reasons here is super bad and I think it is the scummy kind of bad. Town tunnels tend to be one person just going in like a freight train and dredging up 10 reasons why someone is scum and building a case, while the scum version tends to be a lot of shade-throwing while leaving plausible deniability, and LC's attack on tutuu for a post that I think is frankly innocuous (and I explained why there is nothing wrong with it) rubs me the wrong way.

[dunya]

Actually I don't think mac would kill a brand new player either Just as much as I wouldn't tbh. He does the impossible to get people to sign up and play games here.

Remove him. Rip my sanity.

[dunya]

I prefer if everyone doesn't call out their saves tho. It's a bad idea for scum to keep track of how many are left.

[dunya]

Or everyone call them out and then flip a coin whther you'll go through with it.

Confuse mafia. I like that strategy more.

[Dyslexicon]

Actually I don't think mac would kill a brand new player either Just as much as I wouldn't tbh. He does the impossible to get people to sign up and play games here.

Remove him. Rip my sanity.

I think Mac is towny on his own. I just think wifoming the kill, or any kill for that matter, is a pretty fruitless endeavour. I'm not positive, but I think Mac knows Hally at least a bit from specchat. Hally isn't some random new player. They are experienced, played in champ, and is known to quite a few here. It's not like Hally will feel unwelcome if they are killed N1. It's a complement. I don't know. Just my however many cents. NK analysis is rarely a great way to solve imo. Requires too many assumptions.

And I'm not saying believe me, I'm saying if you for some reason can't town read me then believe Hally.

[tutuu]

i am not suggesting that i will be an independent agent like epi i am suggest that i be one of the person assigned to protect nutella

i (think) she has me as lock town, and this is me, a member of the TOWN, giving a suggestion to another member of the fucking TOWN on what should we do

im rage closing my internet tabs because i cant stand people sea-lioning me

for reference sea-lioning is

"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate"."



at least thats how i perceive it and i could very well be wrong etc etc whatever

[Dyslexicon]

If Dunya is lying about the Hally kill I'm vigging her, lynching her and NKing her in any and all future games forever.

[dunya]

I have good feelings about LC attacking epi and tutuu tbh

[dunya]

If Dunya is lying about the Hally kill I'm vigging her, lynching her and NKing her in any and all future games forever.

Right back at you, dizz-ster

[protocultures]

hally was consensus townread and died with 4 bunker shots because of the dumbass plan

i (thought) im the next biggest consensus townread and im dying tonight hence i wanted to at least do something but i guess im no longer consensus townread after a quarter of the game start shading me

u guys do what u want im sure u know what youre doing

real question without intending to throw shade. Are you just a non math person?

There is an opportunity cost to try and save a bunker. It costs 1 bunker save.

There is a 1/10 chance to land a save because at the time, there were 10 bunkers up.

If you miss, you lose a bunker save achieving nothing.

Due to the 4 protects onto Nutella (3 nominated plus maverick Epi), we have a remaining pool of 36 bunker saves distributed in the pool of 10 bunkers. This assigns an average of 3.6 bunkers saves per bunker.

This means when you guess correctly, you "saved" 3.6 bunker saves at the cost of 1. So a net gain of 2.6 bunker saves. Thats IF you guess correctly. Thats one in ten times.

The other 9 times, you miss, you have spend a bunker save anyway and alien still get to kill resulting in a loss of 3 to 4 bunker saves. This is exactly what happened when rej did it, and why i hate it.

Do you just not understand this or what is your issue. Why is the plan to let bunkers die unprotected the first few nights a "dumbass plan".

Explain what YOUR plan is. Do you have one? If so, I dont recall. If you dont have a plan, and cant find any issues with the above, and didnt voice any concerns, your comments with 20/20 hindsight are unhelpful and still wrong.

[dunya]

LC attacking Epi and tutuu for horrible reasons here is super bad and I think it is the scummy kind of bad. Town tunnels tend to be one person just going in like a freight train and dredging up 10 reasons why someone is scum and building a case, while the scum version tends to be a lot of shade-throwing while leaving plausible deniability, and LC's attack on tutuu for a post that I think is frankly innocuous (and I explained why there is nothing wrong with it) rubs me the wrong way.

Like I just totally disagree with all this, but maybe it's cos I know LC.

Can't wait for LC to make me look bad again...

[Dyslexicon]

Or are you just so sure that you need to be read as Town that the only possible reason to doubt you would be because I'm an alien?

Yes.

This is me always.

For all future.

Please comply and thank you.

[protocultures]

I have good feelings about LC attacking epi and tutuu tbh

agree.

[Dyslexicon]

Right back at you, dizz-ster

I haven't claimed I would never kill Hally. If Hally's read on me is wrong, feel free to never listen to our advice on each other again. I feel like I'm getting antsy about it because on PerC, literally a chosen method for reading both Hally and myself for others is to see how we read each other. We basically have the same brain and play style. Ok. I think I've talked about it more than enough.

[Dyslexicon]

The funny thing is that if Epi flips scum I will be more suspicious of Proto and not less.