Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Sloonei]

I went searching for Marcher cases to see what I think of them. This one from bronana is not unfair at all:

Spoiler: show

looked at a town and wolf game from marcher on cfc. They did the endless questions thing in the wolf game that they've been criticized for here, while the town game seemed to not have that at all, much more direct.

i'm totally trustworthy, but if you want to double check my work:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.657987/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.659154/

[/quote]

I have never played with Marcher before, but a little bit of meta perspective is useful. Not completely reliable (every game is different. I don't think that every player does the same thing from game to game, and I haven't actually clicked on either of these links), but if there is an apparently clear distinction between a past mafia game compared to a past town game from Marcher, then that should not be ignored.

But I'm less enamored with the follow-up:

Spoiler: show

How likely do you think it is that all the people that have posted so far are civilian?

...this was an opener.

I'm here if you wanna talk! I'm catching up on another tab but I'm easily distracted lol

Hey Carotenoid what do you think about tedxtr's response to your entrance? (and also like tedxtr's thing in general of making a quick retrospective on the first pages and establishing slank cover)

Now that's a w/w post.

The whole interaction from here feels suspiciously light, maybe an excuse to try and establish a townread there and try to steer the thread away.

Looking at Carot's iso again, I don't know how you could possibly have a strong townread on this person? Very dubious.

Nevermind, apparently Marcher had an issue with my interpretation of Carote’s opening?

I don’t see what the problem is there. “Hey guys, how many civillians have posted?” seems like about a pretty wolfy post, for an opener.

@Marcher Jovian Why do you like that particular post??

It feels like the kind of weird mindset post that comes from >rand town. Like mafia already know everyone's alignment. They know exactly who's posted and what their alignments are. It feels like the sort of random thoughts that town sometimes has that are hard to think of when you're mafia.

tl;dr lack of tmi

This is kinda grasping at straws as a reasoning.

Who the hell comes into an eod, sees a strong villager was misyeeted, and gets mad about people voting the counterwagon? how did lissa think that was "pure and real" wtf

I don't care at all for the "w/w" point about marcher/carot (pre-flip associative reads are the devil, etc.), and I'm not bothered by Marcher's harsh response to the people who voted for Carot yesterday. To me it just indicates that Marcher had/has a strong read on a player who was nearly eliminated. Marcher evidently did not feel as strongly about Radishes, and their focus is instead on a player they felt strongly about who was also in the vicinity of the banishment.

I am not unwilling to consider that Marcher is bad based on the first of these two points. But I think the best way to solve Marcher is to have them continue to talk about reads.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: lissa] aubergine

[tedxtr]

Sloonei, I expected some nuclear type of explosion, not a fart type of explosion :P

[Carotenoid]

I have never played with Marcher before, but a little bit of meta perspective is useful. Not completely reliable (every game is different. I don't think that every player does the same thing from game to game, and I haven't actually clicked on either of these links), but if there is an apparently clear distinction between a past mafia game compared to a past town game from Marcher, then that should not be ignored.

They said this was like their sixth game or something so I don't think a meta read serves much here

[bronana]

[VOTE: marcher] aubergine

[bronana]

I have never played with Marcher before, but a little bit of meta perspective is useful. Not completely reliable (every game is different. I don't think that every player does the same thing from game to game, and I haven't actually clicked on either of these links), but if there is an apparently clear distinction between a past mafia game compared to a past town game from Marcher, then that should not be ignored.

They said this was like their sixth game or something so I don't think a meta read serves much here

They won the wolf game after being townread the whole way, why would they make a big change? I don't understand this point. It's very similar.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, I expected some nuclear type of explosion, not a fart type of explosion :P

we're like two seconds into a prolonged explosion, hold your horses.

[Carotenoid]

I have never played with Marcher before, but a little bit of meta perspective is useful. Not completely reliable (every game is different. I don't think that every player does the same thing from game to game, and I haven't actually clicked on either of these links), but if there is an apparently clear distinction between a past mafia game compared to a past town game from Marcher, then that should not be ignored.

They said this was like their sixth game or something so I don't think a meta read serves much here

They won the wolf game after being townread the whole way, why would they make a big change? I don't understand this point. It's very similar.

Hmn
I will reevaluate but I'm not letting them be banished today

[tedxtr]

[mention]moth[/mention] would appreciate if you could answer my question when you're available

[Sloonei]

is there an easy way to iso on civfanatics?

[bronana]

Marchers d2 in this game has also been remarkably opportunistic.

[Sloonei]

Marchers d2 in this game has also been remarkably opportunistic.

how so?

[bronana]

is there an easy way to iso on civfanatics?

Search box upper right, posted by member, this thread only

The Catan game won't show all of their posts fwiw. I manually cyrl+f for a few pages of that one too see their start

[Marcher Jovian]

Sloonei what inspired you to make a big case trying to defend me when there literally wasn’t even anyone voting for me at the time

[tedxtr]

Marcher, can you state what reads you got thus far?

[moth]

at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

What makes you think it's policy?

common sense

maybe spell it out for the people who don't have any of that

what makes wilgy a policy elim over any other lurker?

hurpa durpa doo they missed day one uwu

[bronana]

Can you post a reads list marcher

[Sloonei]

Sloonei what inspired you to make a big case trying to defend me when there literally wasn’t even anyone voting for me at the time

Trying to sort out my read on you. I'm in the process of trying to sort out my reads on a lot of players. You were just the first.

[Marcher Jovian]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

[tedxtr]

Can you walk through your progression with lissa? I don't remember any of your posts where you addressed lissa.

[Sloonei]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Why are there so many nulls? If I insist that you take a stance on each of them, how would this list change?

[Marcher Jovian]

Lissa was slimy and opportunistic when pushing me last night. It felt like she already decided she wanted me banished before listening to what I had to say

[tedxtr]

Lissa was slimy and opportunistic when pushing me last night. It felt like she already decided she wanted me banished before listening to what I had to say

I haven't acted like I wanted to listen to what you had to say, why did you town read me and not her?

[Marcher Jovian]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Why are there so many nulls? If I insist that you take a stance on each of them, how would this list change?

There are so many nulls because there are so many people who haven’t done anything truly AI yet. I will not take stances because I would not believe in them.

[Marcher Jovian]

Lissa was slimy and opportunistic when pushing me last night. It felt like she already decided she wanted me banished before listening to what I had to say

I haven't acted like I wanted to listen to what you had to say, why did you town read me and not her?

Because you’ve actually made legitimate posts showing a higher fear of thinking about the game and trying to solve people into alignments and actually making and pushing causes you believe in. Lissa’s done jack all game except for making some vaguely “good-sounding” posts and sheep zack.

tl;dr: solviness and initiative

[Sloonei]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Why are there so many nulls? If I insist that you take a stance on each of them, how would this list change?

There are so many nulls because there are so many people who haven’t done anything truly AI yet. I will not take stances because I would not believe in them.

You've previously taken a stance on TonyStarkPrime. What changed?

[Marcher Jovian]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Why are there so many nulls? If I insist that you take a stance on each of them, how would this list change?

There are so many nulls because there are so many people who haven’t done anything truly AI yet. I will not take stances because I would not believe in them.

You've previously taken a stance on TonyStarkPrime. What changed?

I exaggerate things sometimes to see what happens.

[tedxtr]

Lissa’s done jack all game except for making some vaguely “good-sounding” posts and sheep zack.

When has this ever happened? Can you cite some instances

[Sloonei]

I exaggerate things sometimes to see what happens.

What happened when you exaggerated things about Tony?

[Marcher Jovian]

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Why are there so many nulls? If I insist that you take a stance on each of them, how would this list change?

There are so many nulls because there are so many people who haven’t done anything truly AI yet. I will not take stances because I would not believe in them.

You've previously taken a stance on TonyStarkPrime. What changed?

I exaggerate things sometimes to see what happens.

Like if I were to break down the list into tighter tiers I guess TSP would be in the lower null, but eh

[Marcher Jovian]

I exaggerate things sometimes to see what happens.

What happened when you exaggerated things about Tony?

a. People (correctly) called out that it was a suspicious push
b. There wasn’t really any of the sorta underhanded/sneaky defenses? People called out the case head on but it didn’t feel like there was a coordinated effort to either divert the push or follow the case. I think once there was pushback mafia got spooked and didn’t want to take the heat from jumping onto a contested case, but nor were they really interested in saving TSP, they just wanted to let it slide and exist.

[Sloonei]

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

[Marcher Jovian]

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

higher null: people who are doing things—dunya, outed wold, Sloonei
lower null: people who are not doing things—wilgy, Long Con, Mac, motobot, soneji, TSP

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: Marcher Jovian ] aubergine

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: Marcher Jovian ] aubergine

[mention]dunya[/mention] [mention]KZA[/mention] interested in this?

[Sloonei]

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

higher null: people who are doing things—dunya, outed wold, Sloonei
lower null: people who are not doing things—wilgy, Long Con, Mac, motobot, soneji, TSP

I find this uninspiring. Do you intend to refine those reads before the end of the day?

[dunya]

ted, did you play in that game where marcher was scum that bronana mentioned?

[Marcher Jovian]

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

higher null: people who are doing things—dunya, outed wold, Sloonei
lower null: people who are not doing things—wilgy, Long Con, Mac, motobot, soneji, TSP

I find this uninspiring. Do you intend to refine those reads before the end of the day?

Yes, why do you think I’m voting outed wolf?

[tedxtr]

The only meta I have with Marcher is an MU mash where I've also scum read him.

I don't really have a baseline for his town play but I don't really think I need it.

[dunya]

[VOTE: marcher jovian] aubergine

your null list and the distinctions between them is not something i cannot swallow. it seems like everyone except OW you haven't played with before fall under null. everyone you have played with before go under town.

if jovian is mafia, OW possible teammate.

[Sloonei]

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

higher null: people who are doing things—dunya, outed wold, Sloonei
lower null: people who are not doing things—wilgy, Long Con, Mac, motobot, soneji, TSP

I find this uninspiring. Do you intend to refine those reads before the end of the day?

Yes, why do you think I’m voting outed wolf?

I don't know, why are you voting outed wolf?

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: marcher jovian] aubergine

[tedxtr]

Really think the pool of

Marcher Jovian / moth / Dr Wilgy has ~at least 2 scum imo.

[dunya]

[VOTE: marcher jovian] aubergine

[Sloonei]

In the middle of a Lissa ISO while also keeping tabs on present thread action. I found this post from Marcher, which doesn't mesh well with their current behavior:

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian considering most of it was like half an hour into D0 I don't think I'd even call it that much of a thing, really

I don't have that much of a takeaway from it

I don't like this response. It feels really wishy-washy "I am neutral and have no strong opinions one way or the other".

@Lissa
Out of:
town/town
nutella wolf
sloonei wolf
scum/scum

where are you leaning right now. I don't care if you want to qualify it by saying it's only by the razor-thinnest of margins. just tell me where your head's at right now.

Insists Lissa takes a stance on a supposed dichotomy, even if it's "only by the razor-thinnest of margins" on Day 1. Refuses to take stances on nearly half the roster because they, "would not believe in them" on Day 2.

[Sloonei]

Really think the pool of

Marcher Jovian / moth / Dr Wilgy has ~at least 2 scum imo.

Why? Are these three linked in some way?

[nutella]

[VOTE: marcher jovian] aubergine

your null list and the distinctions between them is not something i cannot swallow. it seems like everyone except OW you haven't played with before fall under null. everyone you have played with before go under town.

if jovian is mafia, OW possible teammate.

OW is much more wolfy than jovian

[tedxtr]

Dr Wilgy I'm reading independently scummy (can refer to my 2nd wall)

Moth's earlier assessment of "Wilgy's an obvious policy" seems very TMI-y and agenda driven.

Marcher's just been scum for me since D1, I kind of re-evaluated but he keeps remaining underwhelming, I asked him to quote posts where Lissa has only sheeped Zack and not done anything else (which is a pretty big misrepresentation) and he just skipped on that post in order to answer your questions which were more manageable.

Moth and Wilgy are kind of linked in a way I guess, Marcher is independent, Wilgy is independent, taking a margin of error for moth although that post was pretty yikers.

[Sloonei]

i'm gonna call lissa a town read for now. where do I move my vote to?

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: marcher jovian] aubergine

your null list and the distinctions between them is not something i cannot swallow. it seems like everyone except OW you haven't played with before fall under null. everyone you have played with before go under town.

if jovian is mafia, OW possible teammate.

OW is much more wolfy than jovian

why?