Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Long Con]

not in spite of anything. Maybe its zack after all

Hold on, can you break down your view on Caro and Nutella then? Because what you are saying now doesn't align with where I thought your head was.

Are you town? You're town, right? Assuming you are, what do you think would be wolfy behaviour in the last lynch when the vote was spread comfortably across two Civilians?

[outed wolf]

you got any reads long con

[DrWilgy]

not in spite of anything. Maybe its zack after all

Hold on, can you break down your view on Caro and Nutella then? Because what you are saying now doesn't align with where I thought your head was.

Are you town? You're town, right? Assuming you are, what do you think would be wolfy behaviour in the last lynch when the vote was spread comfortably across two Civilians?

I already told you I'm a doctor.

Its seems to be in the realm of WIFOM at the moment.

Either a behavior of comfortable apathy or mad shifting to stay on a preferable choice and it's hard to say without more information. I.e. did Nutella vote me to bring me ahead of MJ in a save? Did the TH wagon take off in response to the Outed Wolf push that popped up towards the end? The lines are pivotal, but very blurry.

But again, while there may be some truth in that, there's the TSP and Nanook votes.

On that line of thinking how do you view MJ and OW following?

[dunya]

dr wilgy has been saved twice.

based on my mafia experience, i'd say odds of him being bad are like 7:3

[DrWilgy]

dr wilgy has been saved twice.

based on my mafia experience, i'd say odds of him being bad are like 7:3

Please tell me why I was a wagon in the first place.

[dunya]

don't ask me that, you're the biggest enigma in mafia to me

[dunya]

but you were obviously saved twice now, so i'm just thinking "logically" because apparently that's what all the cool cats do nowadays and i'm old fashioned because i don't follow that.

moth can take a scum lean too. he intentionally left his vote on someone who doesn't matter in day 2 and that's bad. he should have took a stance and weighed in. there's no way a townie only has 1 scum read in a game with 20+ players.

[dunya]

also, wilgy, moving back to soneji after you "self pressed" feels a little manipulative to me tbh. like you wanna be town read for not voting out of self preservation, but idk, it doesn't have the same effect on my senses anymore like it did when there were several wagons. maybe it's a distancing ploy in case you did flip (since votes power is messy in this game and not conclusive based on number of people on someone). like, if someone is town, they will always self pres vote because they cannot be 100% sure the other is town: hence, better someone else than them who they know is town.

[DrWilgy]

don't ask me that, you're the biggest enigma in mafia to me

Then why would I need to be saved in the first place?

but you were obviously saved twice now, so i'm just thinking "logically" because apparently that's what all the cool cats do nowadays and i'm old fashioned because i don't follow that.

moth can take a scum lean too. he intentionally left his vote on someone who doesn't matter in day 2 and that's bad. he should have took a stance and weighed in. there's no way a townie only has 1 scum read in a game with 20+ players.

In the time that I returned, I went from being behind MJ and TH, to being in front of them, then TH was killed. Why am I being saved specifically here dunya? was MJ not saved here? was Any other wagon even entertained by people other than Sloonei, TH, OW, or Moth that would've also been prompting for a save if I was saved?

also, wilgy, moving back to soneji after you "self pressed" feels a little manipulative to me tbh. like you wanna be town read for not voting out of self preservation, but idk, it doesn't have the same effect on my senses anymore like it did when there were several wagons. maybe it's a distancing ploy in case you did flip (since votes power is messy in this game and not conclusive based on number of people on someone). like, if someone is town, they will always self pres vote because they cannot be 100% sure the other is town: hence, better someone else than them who they know is town.

Dude, idk what you want from me? I could repeat the same thing I did day 1 and self pres on what I felt like a bs vote or I could hunt. If I were to self pres every single cycle, what's the point of me being here? I'm not going to be forced into a position where I can't hunt because every day I have to vote to save myself. May as well die, give the information, and hope others can hunt better with it because I'm tired.

I know I've only really been able to play for the past two irl days, but boy by golly am I finding myself frustrated at this. I have players wanting to lynch me for hell if I know still and you are telling me that my efforts now aren't even worth it. It's very much 1 thing to say 'We need to clip a wallflower, kill Wilgy.' but very much another to say 'Wilgy is going against his META of contributing (which is a joke)' when I just didn't have the time over the weekend.

The worst part is that I don't know how to read you on this interaction. You're the only one to actually provide something in regards to why I should be lynched, but still lead with the fact that I'm an enigma. I know you play oldschool and am pretty sure you play on rationalized based feeling, and I won't fault you for that, but I have no idea if it's genuine.

And that may also be because of my frustration that I've stated above.

[dunya]

sorry, i don't want you frustrated. i'm not fixated on you or tunneling you. do your thing and i'll do mine, separate from you.

[dunya]

btw, i think you've contributed more in these two days than a lot of people (maybe myself included), so don't feel hard on yourself.

[cayvie]

my townread on him is that nobody seemed interested in pushing there. which gave me an impression scum wasnt into going that way.

could you talk about this/why you think this a bit more

alot of the reason my scumreads fall out in games is that I subscribe to the idea that if my push is wrong eventually, at least 1 scum will sheep me and join that read. After X amount of hours if zero people join me or even comment I usually conclude that scum is way too scared to try to join a moth led lynch- or thay scum doesnt see that lynch being successful.


there have been instances where ive caught scum right away, made the case, and everyone thought I was just really stupid/slow/weird and my ideas had no merit. The last thing id expect is to catch scum early, and other scum to bus based on a moth push.

Alas, I concluded my reasoning for a scumread on outed were lackluster and id not understood we werent even in day 1. but basically nobody agreed that outed could be scum when I was pushing him. only after I decided he could be town was there sudden dismay and discord about outed suddenly being wolfy

well if you value accuracy over results youre doing fantastic

are both of the words you used here the ones you meant to use

Yes
If you value the fact you got my alignment correct then youre doing well.

if you value a successful mafia game where town gets quality lynches; im not sure we have a rapport necessary to correctly bring scum down because I feel like youd be more inclined to compartmentalize me into a corner where just knowing im town is all im useful for.

ok so moth is depressed, which is nai

my one read is that two random people I'm not voting for could be paired that seems like a terrible strategy

MacDougall seems to be joking, why the serious answer?

Carote defends MacDougall, ok

Why are the possibilities you're envisioning the two extremes?

Not sure what you'd like me to respond with here.

However, I think you have me at about a null or something, how do you feel about my vote on you?

You're thinking that I'm either 1) Right and pushing wolfy people, 2) Wolf bussing. So either way, you think that I'm interacting with wolves. That makes the vote on me feels really opportunistic.
I'm trying to not OMGUS-read you but I have you as null-leaning bad because of that.

this post zigs where i thought it would make a point about "why not vote those wolves then?"

Hmmn okay.

The game does feel really... Calm? A lot of things feel v/v so maybe some wolves are MIA.

DrWilgy, dunya, motobot & Soneji fall in this category.

i'll reply to this first since it has my name and is right above my post.

drwilgy is nototiously low poster in either alignment, but i say he makes a little more effort as scum as the game goes on.

motobot is the host's 8year old son and makes a very limited amount of posts in general.

soneji just flipped mafia in space invaders, so i'll let you judge what his inactivity means.

i am never a low poster in either alignment. incoming crazy dunya.

im playing with an 8 year old? i wasn't told about this, i wasn't warned

[DrWilgy]

sorry, i don't want you frustrated. i'm not fixated on you or tunneling you. do your thing and i'll do mine, separate from you.

Thanks. Let me reiterate, my frustration wasn't just from you, but more so the double day wagon that I can't seem to find a reason for. Sorry if it sounded like that was just directed at you (Dunya is my friend and I don't want to lash out at her in my explanation of how I'm feeling).

If you think I'm bad and think there was a save, by all means let's elaborate on that and discuss with me. I want to know if you are thinking of which line exist here. I am still very curious as to why there seemed to be pivot wagons and no other names were being tossed. Specifically Soneji, why do you think so few were not mentioning them, but would rally against me? If I was saved, who specifically saved me? I want to know what lines you see here.

[cayvie]

Marcher just stopped posting while you two knights raised your sword at me, fwiw.

Let the man explain himself, if you can't see the inconsistency then it isn't really my problem, if it's on me, then we'll all see it, if it's not, he's gonna start burying his own grave and it's gonna be obvious.

Stop defending him. You're helping nobody.

I like ted's towniness right now.

Why is it towny?

don't like these from bro in context. feels like fanning the flames in a scummy way.

[cayvie]

ted: scum
bronana: town

Why? x2

ted started out just reading the thread, meming with a few gifs at stuff, and peacing out. Then there was a brief period where ted was doing stuff. now ted's just tunneling me for bad reasons and is ignoring anything else. no one really wants to vote out the tunneler. they'll just say "oh it's town but wrong" and if he gets his way and I flip they're more likely to look at the bandwagoners than at ted himself. It's an easy strategy that'll end up with ted spewing nothing, avoiding talking about half the game, and safely getting through probably at least the first 2 days with limited suspicion.

bronana: like the questions he's asking, they're ones I would have asked ones I wish I would have asked

marcher can be town, i think.

the missed edit caught my eye here but i don't think it means anything.

(is posting my thoughts as i go helpful to people? i'd normally be doing this at night in my own notes, but since we can post at night i thought i'd do it here. but if people feel it's cluttery, i can shift gears)

[Sloonei]

Yes, please keep going

[cayvie]

oh ted is insomnia from my research.

[VOTE: tedxtr] aubergine

dude's a wolf

is insomnia a character? i do not think epi assigns characters that can be easily scum-town read like that in their respective alignments.

it's the name he plays under on mu

i fully agree with nutella's recent ketchup posts

ok nutella scummy bronana scummy but this post makes me think they're not w/w

nutella bronana bread mm why is everyone in this game a food

k nvm zack is fine

yeah i dont think 2 scum would just hard thumbsup each other in succession then

[tedxtr]

Wilgy, you can harp on my angle shooting, but my overall qualm with you was that on D1 you didn't care for your wagon or what that meant for the other wagon's alignments that were competing against you.

I've drawn a "Wilgy's mindset" picture with "I want this wagon off me and I don't care who started it or why I'm one in the first place" colours.

[tedxtr]

Hello cayvie, I got you wrong in your champs game and underestimated you, will make sure not to make the same mistake again!

Glad to have you on board, if you subbed in a wolf slot, I look forward to the challenge of getting to a scum lean on you.

[tedxtr]

Marcher just stopped posting while you two knights raised your sword at me, fwiw.

Let the man explain himself, if you can't see the inconsistency then it isn't really my problem, if it's on me, then we'll all see it, if it's not, he's gonna start burying his own grave and it's gonna be obvious.

Stop defending him. You're helping nobody.

I like ted's towniness right now.

Why is it towny?

don't like these from bro in context. feels like fanning the flames in a scummy way.

Fanning the flames...in what context?

[tedxtr]

Thanks. Let me reiterate, my frustration wasn't just from you, but more so the double day wagon that I can't seem to find a reason for.

Interesting.

[cayvie]

Marcher just stopped posting while you two knights raised your sword at me, fwiw.

Let the man explain himself, if you can't see the inconsistency then it isn't really my problem, if it's on me, then we'll all see it, if it's not, he's gonna start burying his own grave and it's gonna be obvious.

Stop defending him. You're helping nobody.

I like ted's towniness right now.

Why is it towny?

don't like these from bro in context. feels like fanning the flames in a scummy way.

Fanning the flames...in what context?

like you and mj were getting into it, it looked like mj was getting more thread support and you were getting a little frustrated, then in comes bronana with some sarcasm that reads to me as an attempt to provoke you into full-on frustration/anger

to me it doesn't read as "oo let's prod ted and see if he drops useful clues" so much as "let's see if i can push here and maybe make the thread a chaotic mess"

[cayvie]

I gotta re-evaluate Zach at some point.

I don't really town read Carot, but I don't have any hard reasoning to believe she's scum either.

radishes has 48 posts. that's a good chunk. since i've been on, apart from the failed GTH exercise, he's been posting mostly fluff stuff. what do you make of him in this game?

hmm. putting a pin in this labeled "dunya/carot???"

Listen, I'm a very emotional player, if I'm gonna get accused on BoP with one game as experience, at least provide the environment for me to hunt properly in.

I always prioritize defending myself over solving, and will continue on doing it until this whole push is over. It's how I operate.

I'm gonna do it tomorrow morning when I'm not gonna be tilted. Just talk about something else.

i guess maybe it won't be helpful to get into this, but... "it's how i operate" is not a good enough excuse if you're town imo? like, do something else, change your behavior if you know you're being antitown.

[dunya]

telling a townie to change how they town isn't very helpful either tbf.

[dunya]

"do something intentionally different to look "townier" or you're gonna be antitown"

yeah no thx

[dunya]

Wilgy, you can harp on my angle shooting, but my overall qualm with you was that on D1 you didn't care for your wagon or what that meant for the other wagon's alignments that were competing against you.

how is that angle shooting? i dont follow.

[dunya]

sorry, i don't want you frustrated. i'm not fixated on you or tunneling you. do your thing and i'll do mine, separate from you.

Thanks. Let me reiterate, my frustration wasn't just from you, but more so the double day wagon that I can't seem to find a reason for. Sorry if it sounded like that was just directed at you (Dunya is my friend and I don't want to lash out at her in my explanation of how I'm feeling).

If you think I'm bad and think there was a save, by all means let's elaborate on that and discuss with me. I want to know if you are thinking of which line exist here. I am still very curious as to why there seemed to be pivot wagons and no other names were being tossed. Specifically Soneji, why do you think so few were not mentioning them, but would rally against me? If I was saved, who specifically saved me? I want to know what lines you see here.

forget about asking me what i think, you're the target.

do you think people who were on your trains both days are bad?

[cayvie]

"do something intentionally different to look "townier" or you're gonna be antitown"

yeah no thx

not to look townier. to be townier.

it's closer to a townie being like "i always self-vote, sorry, that's just how i play"

[dunya]

p.s. [mention]DrWilgy[/mention] friend4ever

also wanna add i don't think cayvie is bad from that advice/observation, but we have conflicting opinions on what the correct behavior is. i think townies shouldn't filter or intentionally change their behavior as it reflects badly on you when someone notices "something is different about you hmmmm" and you can't defend it. i'm enjoying the catchup either way.

[dunya]

"do something intentionally different to look "townier" or you're gonna be antitown"

yeah no thx

not to look townier. to be townier.

it's closer to a townie being like "i always self-vote, sorry, that's just how i play"

you're not telling ted to stop self-voting, which is a physical action that can be controlled. you're telling ted to stop reacting impulsively with emotion. there's a pretty big difference there.

[cayvie]

Reads that come from other games, having a baseline of exactly one game that you didn't even play is exactly the type of reads that wolves make and that villagers never actually care for.

I have no reason to accept or believe that this statement is true.

He also changed the reasoning for his read. When he replied to me in the first place, he moved the goal posts in order to make the read sound legitimate.

What was Position #1, and what did it change into when it became Position #2?

Position 1 : Moth is town for complaining about not being engaged in thread by people (later on he implies that this is an indicator of nervousness, by the way)
Position 2: It's not exactly the talk, it's the tone behind it

So which one is it, is he town because in a world where he'd be a wolf, he'd conceal information from the main thread and post it in wolf chat, or is he town because of his tone?

This is absurdly binary lol

Think you're probably a villager who legit thinks they "caught" something that matters though

is this how a villager approaches a villager tho

ok going to work, cyall later

[Marcher Jovian]

but you were obviously saved twice now, so i'm just thinking "logically" because apparently that's what all the cool cats do nowadays and i'm old fashioned because i don't follow that.

moth can take a scum lean too. he intentionally left his vote on someone who doesn't matter in day 2 and that's bad. he should have took a stance and weighed in. there's no way a townie only has 1 scum read in a game with 20+ players.

Why aren’t you talking about me here? Like I’ve been a wagon at both eods and have dodged the elimination both times. You’ve already been suspicious of me and voted me before? Where’s your read at right now?

[dunya]

but you were obviously saved twice now, so i'm just thinking "logically" because apparently that's what all the cool cats do nowadays and i'm old fashioned because i don't follow that.

moth can take a scum lean too. he intentionally left his vote on someone who doesn't matter in day 2 and that's bad. he should have took a stance and weighed in. there's no way a townie only has 1 scum read in a game with 20+ players.

Why aren’t you talking about me here? Like I’ve been a wagon at both eods and have dodged the elimination both times. You’ve already been suspicious of me and voted me before? Where’s your read at right now?

after reading your iso, i lean town on you.

i hate null reads especially when it's more than half the player pool, but i feel like you actually *believe* in them and i can't tell you that my method is better than yours. plus, after weighing in on how the null were basically a list of people you've never played with, i sorta get it.

[TonyStarkPrime]

uh oh pidgey’s a wolf

[tedxtr]

Wilgy, you can harp on my angle shooting, but my overall qualm with you was that on D1 you didn't care for your wagon or what that meant for the other wagon's alignments that were competing against you.

how is that angle shooting? i dont follow.

Was quoting an earlier post where I basically downplayed Wilgy’s posting time at exactly EoD to avoid the cuddle, and he called me out on it

Basically implying he only ever does care / post when he’s in danger of being cuddled

But my actual push has nothing to do with that, I sometimes point out things that are simple and that appeal to people, occam’s razor

[tedxtr]

Marcher’s only asking people what they’re doing when it involves only their dynamic around him and nothing else

If he’s a villager it’s starting to get really annoying

[tedxtr]

God damnit dunya you better not be wolf

I hate being pocketed

[tedxtr]

If there’s a vigilante, please, PLEASE, shoot Marcher.

[tedxtr]

Marcher / Wilgy / moth / ow

Didn’t read last EoD, don’t know if they got townier

Leaning very hard scum on both Marcher and Wilgy

[tedxtr]

I think I’d shoot Wilgy over Marcher.

Really feeling the Wilgy suspicion.

[tedxtr]

The “I’m still trying to figure out why I’ve been wagonned on both days” reads as an emotional angle for “Why the fuck am I being suspected”

Except that this emotion was not shown on D1 and Wilgy was looking to avoid the cuddle, rather than actually finding out why he was wagonned and whether the push was wolf motivated.

Very disingenuous mentality.

[Lissa]

i've read over eod ~several times and i still can't really parse it

[MacDougall]

game game game game

[Long Con]

but you were obviously saved twice now, so i'm just thinking "logically" because apparently that's what all the cool cats do nowadays and i'm old fashioned because i don't follow that.

But was he "obviously saved"? Or was it wagons based on inactivity where none of the voters were all that attached to the "case"?

[dunya]

why wasn't soneji ever a wagon then? or motobot?

also turnip was not a low poster.

[dunya]

i asked @outed wolf a question and they never answered me. what flavor things can you tell us about the game? who is tariq and the other character? wrt upgrades and what we buy with our sols, what's most important for us to focus on in your opinion?

[outed wolf]

Lol. I just posted in the wrong thread, thanks

I answered all of that

As an aside, glory for Nas, presence for voting power

[dunya]

speaking of glory, did anyone else get fucked in glory?

sorry, OW, i'll check your ISO.

[dunya]

[mention]outed wolf[/mention] i didnt see them yet, but im sure i'll find them if you said you answered me

but what does it mean when tariq or celeste anoint someone? i googled what anoint means, but i don't understand what it does itg?

[outed wolf]

From memory when people are chosen in the liberation rite, they pick a member of each triumvirate

Could be wrong here

I'm not entirely sure how that translates to this game as liberation doesn't seem to be a factor in it

I'm not even sure where to begin guessing, perhaps they are chosen in that they get a buff if there is a wolf Lynch? No idea