The Lion King [MAFIA WIN]

[Urist]

[mention]1612[/mention] hasn't posted yet right, do the moderators usually search for a replacement if someone hasn't confirmed on d0?

[Long Con]

A player can do that as scum or town.

Yes. Good. And what do you feel is the case for Proto? Do you have any feels so far? I know you said you were going to chill on D0, but since you're here and the table is set?

Watch out for m plus 7, she can fake emotion expertly and is not above using it to manipulate you.

Daaaamn, I mean, it's true but thanks LC.

I'll never let it slide.

[cobbler]

Since this is becoming more of a distraction than it's worth...

Urist - I take the song as slightly scummy if anything. Reasoning? Trying too hard.

They scumread dizzy as 99% mafia. Not sure how they can do that this early. Reeks of a fake read or bussing for credit.

Softing PR this early is also kid of scummy imo. Its bad if you are really PR, and Urist is pretty good at mafia from looking at the insane setup they created on 451, and its confusing for town if you are softing as a vanilla town, and makes it more likely to make a real PR pressured to out. Overall I hate it.

"I am town, and yes it's very cool. I get so emotionally exhausted when playing scum, it's ridic. Glad I don't have to do that here" - dislike statements like these and read them as slightly scummy, might just need to get some more forum games under my belt since I seem to see a lot of these "phew im so glad im town" posts on day 1 in forum games.

1. I posted in the signup thread that I already had my first post ready. Also I copy-pasted the lyrics and replaced like 5 words in an existing song, I barely did anything. So it's NAI and I was barely trying regardless. Plus y'know I wrote the rulebook for Needlessly Complicated in one night, effort is not a resource I'm stingy with generally.

2. It was obviously a fake read, not sure what you think the scum motivation is, esp since I never followed up. & setting up associatives at this stage is bad for business.

3. Not getting into this.

4. I actually asked dunya pregame to give me a town role PM, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to follow her rules. I'm pretty bad as scum bc I get overinvested, spend a ton of effort on the early game and burn out and unintentionally throw the game later on. It's a problem that I need to solve, but not in my first game on TS. I think I referred to this in the intro thread when Jay said I was not terrible.

this is all perfectly reasonable. i don't know why you were so hesitant to just post this or something similar originally. thank you though for engaging

[Tangrowth]

Is there anything you want to talk to me about specifically while we have realtime together?

Do you have an opinion on Long Con?

Ehhh I had the slightest of town reads for that first post, but let me ISO real fast here. Long Con can be a tough nut to crack.

Hey Urist, I got nothing other than the previously expressed read that I referenced here. Hmmm.

[mention]Long Con[/mention], say more things please, hehe.

[Tangrowth]

A player can do that as scum or town.

Yes. Good. And what do you feel is the case for Proto? Do you have any feels so far? I know you said you were going to chill on D0, but since you're here and the table is set?

Watch out for m plus 7, she can fake emotion expertly and is not above using it to manipulate you.

Daaaamn, I mean, it's true but thanks LC.

I'll never let it slide.

Oh hey, my ping worked retroactively!

[Tangrowth]

You know, what do you think is the best way to read me, LC? How do you try to go about it? Is it completely game dependent?

[cobbler]

would someone be kind enough to give me the smallest crash course in voting here? i see the poll now but i assume you also have to make a post in the thread?

[Tangrowth]

would someone be kind enough to give me the smallest crash course in voting here? i see the poll now but i assume you also have to make a post in the thread?

So it depends on the Host, but typically, the poll is what matters in terms of your vote counting. It's generally also heavily preferred that you post at the time of your poll vote. There is the [ vote ] function, but you don't necessarily have to use that in most games from my knowledge.

[Tangrowth]

@1612 hasn't posted yet right, do the moderators usually search for a replacement if someone hasn't confirmed on d0?

This also depends on the Host I would say. If I had to summarize I would say that collectively we tend to be pro-active about replacements but not aggressively so?

[Lavender]

hi everybody please enjoy the following reads which i had a great time making and consist of a combination of my brain and heart

notes:

1612 - if he ever says "oh no" it's a sure sign of absolutely nothing because its nai. we play all the time on mafia.gg. if he doesn't tunnel me he is likely mafia. if he does tunnel me we're both town
Alison - gut townread, i like the early reaction test voting on michelle cuz it's something i do a lot, will be watching to see if it was really a reaction test or something else
cobbler - gut scum read
Dyslexicon - they and mp7 are not both scum, see below ⬇
jeraldooo - now u may or may not know this but jeraldoo and i have a psychic connection where we can pretty much always townread each other when we are both town. on the other hand we also townread each when one of us is mafia and one of us is town. or at least when i'm mafia and he's town. i don't actually know if this holds true if we are both mafia. but anyway i'm gonna bus him if he doesn't show up soon
Long Con - gut scum read, i don't like the warning to dyslexicon about mplus7
Michelle - probably pr, come at me
M Plus 7: apparently universally townread. into transparency. has lots of interaction with dyslexicon. so...doubt they are both scum
proto - in mafia.gg and daily mafia my scumtells for proto are scumreading someone quickly d1 and then backing off. so i'm watching to see if he backs off urist. on the other hand he put a lot of effort into his reads. but i guess that's the point of forum. also proto and i aren't both scum cuz would we really use the same format of posting notes, hell no we wouldn't, like i actually copy pasted it, come on now
Scirrus - putting lots of effort into their posts, but i townread them more than urist
tutuuu - town, i like their style. this is probably going to be my gut tr that causes me to lose the game for town in f3, which will be an excellent opportunity for me to become the forum player i was born to be, next game of course
Urist - posted scar poem, nai all the way down. putting lots of effort into their posts. i kinda want to vote them to pocket proto, also they seem like the kind of town player that mafia would be scared to push, so we can just banish them and then vote the nonvoters when they flip blue, game solved pog

so long story short i'm voting long con. now i have to figure out how to vote, hold up

[Tangrowth]

And I think Dizzy is probably town as well. That read is the one I'm least confident on but I liked the interaction with cobbler. Can anyone with a townread on Urist talk to me about them?

@Alison can you confirm dizzy's meta for having a bunch of early townreads as town? Thoughts on likelihood dizzy is faking a bunch of early townreads to be consistent with this established meta?

So I'm not Alison but I can separately confirm this. As for faking it, it's possible.

[Tangrowth]

Hello, Lavender, nice to meet you! Gosh I'm so excited to play with all you!

[Urist]

this is all perfectly reasonable. i don't know why you were so hesitant to just post this or something similar originally. thank you though for engaging

because it's not alignment indicative, it's basically just fluff and if i hadn't posted anything proto would have come eventually come around to town-reading me anyway.

[Tangrowth]

If Alison doesn't have 200 posts and hasn't lynched at least 2 mafia by the end of day 0 then she's mafia.

stuff like this is why I feel obligated to bus a lot when I'm scum

I too understand the burden of crushing meta expectations.

[Tangrowth]

And I think Dizzy is probably town as well. That read is the one I'm least confident on but I liked the interaction with cobbler. Can anyone with a townread on Urist talk to me about them?

@Alison can you confirm dizzy's meta for having a bunch of early townreads as town? Thoughts on likelihood dizzy is faking a bunch of early townreads to be consistent with this established meta?

I did an entire meta trawl on them in Space Invaders! Like, I was doing it for a nefarious purpose, but I did read their games, and I think this seems pretty in line with what Dizzy usually does as town. It can be faked, of course, but they aren't doing anything out of the ordinary here and they give me good vibes with the way they talked about cobbler and their general enthusiasm for the game. (Dizzy hates playing scum and I expect them to be less enthusiastic in general if they're mafia.)

For whatever my opinion is worth, I felt pretty good about interacting with Dizzy in realtime last night.

[Urist]

oh my god emoji overload
also why are the chat mafia players the one giving full-playerlist reads, i don't remember doing that way back in my cm days

[Lavender]

Hello, Lavender, nice to meet you! Gosh I'm so excited to play with all you!

nice to meet you, what do u think of my read on long con?

[Tangrowth]

What does this mean?

the words tutuu chooses to use seem like they were chosen by town

[mention]Urist[/mention]

Did you ever expand on this? If so, ignore me, I'll see it in due time. If not, can you talk to me about it some more please? Thanks!

[cobbler]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

[Tangrowth]

Hello, Lavender, nice to meet you! Gosh I'm so excited to play with all you!

nice to meet you, what do u think of my read on long con?

I can see why that conclusion would be reached. Knowing LC, it's too close to NAI. I'll have to think more about whether he says those things as town or wolf more, but off the top of my head I don't think there's a significant difference.

[Lavender]

Since this is becoming more of a distraction than it's worth...

Urist - I take the song as slightly scummy if anything. Reasoning? Trying too hard.

They scumread dizzy as 99% mafia. Not sure how they can do that this early. Reeks of a fake read or bussing for credit.

Softing PR this early is also kid of scummy imo. Its bad if you are really PR, and Urist is pretty good at mafia from looking at the insane setup they created on 451, and its confusing for town if you are softing as a vanilla town, and makes it more likely to make a real PR pressured to out. Overall I hate it.

"I am town, and yes it's very cool. I get so emotionally exhausted when playing scum, it's ridic. Glad I don't have to do that here" - dislike statements like these and read them as slightly scummy, might just need to get some more forum games under my belt since I seem to see a lot of these "phew im so glad im town" posts on day 1 in forum games.

1. I posted in the signup thread that I already had my first post ready. Also I copy-pasted the lyrics and replaced like 5 words in an existing song, I barely did anything. So it's NAI and I was barely trying regardless. Plus y'know I wrote the rulebook for Needlessly Complicated in one night, effort is not a resource I'm stingy with generally.

2. It was obviously a fake read, not sure what you think the scum motivation is, esp since I never followed up. & setting up associatives at this stage is bad for business.

3. Not getting into this.

4. I actually asked dunya pregame to give me a town role PM, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to follow her rules. I'm pretty bad as scum bc I get overinvested, spend a ton of effort on the early game and burn out and unintentionally throw the game later on. It's a problem that I need to solve, but not in my first game on TS. I think I referred to this in the intro thread when Jay said I was not terrible.

this is all perfectly reasonable. i don't know why you were so hesitant to just post this or something similar originally. thank you though for engaging

oh wait nvm i have townreads on both cobbler and urist

[Lavender]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

[Tangrowth]

[Wall]

A couple of things. I give town reads (or scum reads) if I have them early game. Doesn't always happen, just if I get a feeling for someone (easier with meta). Anyway, I think I had like 7 town reads on D0 in Space Invaders and they were all correct. Not saying this is always going to happen, I'm not that magical, but it is possible to read people off of small things and details, which is often how I get my reads early on (and probably how I should get most of my reads for the whole game which I'm definitely alive for. I'm also not open wolfing, I'm just in love with Scar. Let me feel my oats. I'm actually open towning. =p

I'm going to be transparent with you and say that I didn't actually scum read you off of zero posts lol. I just thought you were a player likely to give some reaction or take it more seriously. And you're reaction was kind of feeling out if I was serious and kind of saying I shouldn't keep doing it.Which we'll see. =) What I will say is that you seem very self aware here. I wish I had seen your scum game, cause I remember you saying you weren't past your scum range at a point last game where I felt you were past most people's scum game.

Also, I disagree with your read on Scirrus for those things and that saying you're happy to be town is scummy in general. I actually think the opposite usually. Depends on how genuine it seems, but I know a lot of players who prefer town much more than scum, myself included. Scirrus should do things though, but he vibes like normal Scirrus to me. But we have all the time in the world to figure this out.

Small thing, but why is would it be a problem to explain why you potentially flipped a read? Can't you just explain why you flipped it? Really not trying to throw shade here, but it's just confusing to me. I know we have very different styles, so I'm more so trying to get even more into how you think about the game.

Gut town reading Dizzy a bit more for the "Small thing" part. I'm not sure wolf Dizzy thinks to say that, and even if so, not sure if it would be posted anyway.

[cobbler]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

oh sick

[Urist]

What does this mean?

the words tutuu chooses to use seem like they were chosen by town

@Urist

Did you ever expand on this? If so, ignore me, I'll see it in due time. If not, can you talk to me about it some more please? Thanks!

i actually don't remember if i talked about it... basically the essence of what i was saying specifically of tutuu is that mafia doesn't have to struggle to find words that express their thoughts because their thoughts are fake, so her looking for metaphors to express herself is townish.

[Tangrowth]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

Can you explain in more detail what prompted the swap?

[Tangrowth]

What does this mean?

the words tutuu chooses to use seem like they were chosen by town

@Urist

Did you ever expand on this? If so, ignore me, I'll see it in due time. If not, can you talk to me about it some more please? Thanks!

i actually don't remember if i talked about it... basically the essence of what i was saying specifically of tutuu is that mafia doesn't have to struggle to find words that express their thoughts because their thoughts are fake, so her looking for metaphors to express herself is townish.

I see, so it's like the active thought process that leads tutuu to even post the metaphors, okay yeah, that makes sense to me. Thanks!

[Lavender]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

Can you explain in more detail what prompted the swap?

hard reaction test. i don't like the "oh sick" response tbh

[Tangrowth]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

Can you explain in more detail what prompted the swap?

hard reaction test. i don't like the "oh sick" response tbh

Would you say normally employ reaction tests? Why did you decide to employ one here? What don't you like about the response?

[Lavender]

cobbler - gut scum read

is there anything in particular that contributed to this read that i can address?

yeah no i changed my mind, ur town af

Can you explain in more detail what prompted the swap?

hard reaction test. i don't like the "oh sick" response tbh

Would you say normally employ reaction tests? Why did you decide to employ one here? What don't you like about the response?

all the time, old habits die hard, i was expecting a "why do u townread me"

[Long Con]

I'll say more things eventually.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for the quick response, Lavender!

[Tangrowth]

I'll say more things eventually.

I look forward to it!

[Urist]

hey lavender is there anything you dislike about mafia.gg and if so what
open question to anyone who wants to answer

[Urist]

Thanks for the quick response, Lavender!

your politeness is unnerving pls be ruder

[Long Con]

I'll say more things eventually.

I look forward to it!

I don't have the energy for the early-game frenzy these days.

[Tangrowth]

The actual reason I'm reading MP as town is just the excitement I felt when he was writing in all caps to me. It just felt genuine to me. It's been a curse that we have randed different alignments for about any game we've played, which is a horrible curse and I'm really hoping that this is the game we're both town. I don't think he's outside any range with his other posts, but I want to go with that good feeling right now.

[insert pronouns reminder about she/hers], sorry, I don't want to be annoying about it, only doing so reflexively every time for informational reasons. I know it's tougher for people who have developed habits for my pronouns, haha. And... hey, that's right, this is my first game as trans on this site! That's pretty cool.

I appreciate the thoughts nonetheless! It has been a curse, I wanted nothing more than to rand the same alignment as you here. I suppose w/w would have been pretty dope too! Hehe!

[Lavender]

hey lavender is there anything you dislike about mafia.gg and if so what
open question to anyone who wants to answer

that it's not open source. at the very least i wish there was a more precise description of how the roles and abilities interact with each other, e.g. what order night actions happen in when there is some ambiguity. makes designing setups kinda annoying sometimes

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for the quick response, Lavender!

your politeness is unnerving pls be ruder

What you are requesting goes against the fiber of my being. I want everyone to have a good time! I also strongly believe in town players working together, and I believe town morale goes a long way to accomplish better results, and I happen to also think I'm pretty good at keeping it up, at least when I'm in a position to do so. That changes if I feel like people aren't working together well and/or the game is dire and/or I get unwarranted suspicion, etc., so I can get angsty.

My emotions are a rollercoaster and you all are along for the ride whether you want to be or not, hehe.

[Urist]

that it's not open source. at the very least i wish there was a more precise description of how the roles and abilities interact with each other, e.g. what order night actions happen in when there is some ambiguity. makes designing setups kinda annoying sometimes

yeah i get that, i think one of the best arguments against auto-hosted mafia is that knowing how the host program works gives a significant advantage.

Thanks for answering

[Tangrowth]

If Alison doesn't have 200 posts and hasn't lynched at least 2 mafia by the end of day 0 then she's mafia.

stuff like this is why I feel obligated to bus a lot when I'm scum

btw you always post with a capital letter and end with punctuation and this is the first time i see u post with lowercase and no punctuation it felt like a special gift just for me cuz its like normally ur at the office talking business right but then ur at the coffee shop with me and thats why u dropped the capital letter and punctuation omg omg omg tysm alison ur wonderful and amazing and i wish u all the best

I really want to townread this.

[Lavender]

that it's not open source. at the very least i wish there was a more precise description of how the roles and abilities interact with each other, e.g. what order night actions happen in when there is some ambiguity. makes designing setups kinda annoying sometimes

yeah i get that, i think one of the best arguments against auto-hosted mafia is that knowing how the host program works gives a significant advantage.

Thanks for answering

no kidding, it's definitely an argument to keep setups simpler imo. have u played there? what else don't u like about it?

[protocultures]

If Alison doesn't have 200 posts and hasn't lynched at least 2 mafia by the end of day 0 then she's mafia.

stuff like this is why I feel obligated to bus a lot when I'm scum

btw you always post with a capital letter and end with punctuation and this is the first time i see u post with lowercase and no punctuation it felt like a special gift just for me cuz its like normally ur at the office talking business right but then ur at the coffee shop with me and thats why u dropped the capital letter and punctuation omg omg omg tysm alison ur wonderful and amazing and i wish u all the best

I really want to townread this.

I hard townread Tutuu currently but fyi in case you haven't played with them before, they have said they would use ATE without hesitation as mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

Good morning, apparently..
Waking up at 4.30 is the new me =p

[Tangrowth]

did u rly have 7 correct townreads d0 in space invaders?

holy shit. i saw u mentioning it earlier and only now my brain computed

WOW

I did. I had all 4 scum in my bottom 5 (with a null poster who later turned into Hally). That game is the biggest tragedy I've seen in a very long time. I have no words for how much I absolutely hated the "logical" NK analysis idea and the shot on me and Dunya. And the salt is real. It's still real. It's the realest. And I'm going to stop talking about it. But yeah, my D0 reads that game were practically spot on. And now I feel I need to do the same here, which there is no guarantee for. But I feel good about quite a few people here already.

Isn't it great to be able to reflect on performances like that? Sometimes I get so caught up in following a trail, especially early on in games but I'm not immune to it later, that I need to remember that locking others as town and solving via POE is a Thing I'm good at as well.

[protocultures]

On a skim of lavenders posts, I disagree with a lot of it but read them likely town. I confirm reaction testing and doing non standard plays is within his town meta. It's within their maf meta too, but I lean it town for now.

[Urist]

that it's not open source. at the very least i wish there was a more precise description of how the roles and abilities interact with each other, e.g. what order night actions happen in when there is some ambiguity. makes designing setups kinda annoying sometimes

yeah i get that, i think one of the best arguments against auto-hosted mafia is that knowing how the host program works gives a significant advantage.

Thanks for answering

no kidding, it's definitely an argument to keep setups simpler imo. have u played there? what else don't u like about it?

I've never played there, I'm developing my own
and yes it's open source. :P

[Scirrus]

Dyslexicon - confusing for me. Need to sort later. Giving out townreads like candy. Apparently this is in line with their townplay meta. Alison can confirm/correct me on this since they did a meta dive in Space Invaders, although they were mafia in that game. Dizzy scumreading me for not posting a wall (here it is buddy) is... confusing. I kind of read it as a trap post, rather than an actual scumread on me. I think Dizzy wants to find scum by seeing who agrees with the read that I am scum for not having posted a wall yet. If they keep pushing me for not writing mechanical walls, I would kind of scumread them, but I think they will back off this strat anyway now I have called it out as a potential tactic.

Kind of openwolfing maybe with all the scar references (roleclaiming characters is not allowed so not sure how much they are flirting with that rule). Feel pretty safe that they wouldnt kill me Night 1 since although I am now new to Syndicate, I am still new enough they would give me a N1 pass. Not 100% on that. A bit selfish of me to put this out there because now there are wifom reasons to keep me alive if they are mafia, but ho hum, I need my forum mafia fix and I like still being in the game.

I can confirm that he does that with early town reads. That's the way most of the strong town players on our site play. They're all about forming town cores early and solving through POE. Hally does that as well (not sure if you've played with them yet). Having everyone as null or focusing mostly on pushing scum reads isn't isn't as effective because it doesn't focus on building trust within the town.

Scirrus - I read as hard scum.

"Lol I love this. Are you town? It would be cool if you are " - scummy imo

"(I swear if you let me get misyeeted this game I will have give you the worst berating a 9 can possibly give)" - implying town alignment again

" I hope we get to both be town again too! But only time will tell I suppose " - implying town alignment again

liking Urist for asking if they should wait to give townreads is weird to me. Someone asking if they should wait to give reads is more likely mafia trying to avoid giving reads for as long as possible to make their alignment more difficult to determine.

"Wouldn't it be awesome if we were all town" - implying town again

How is that first sentence scummy? if you're gonna call me hard scum I'd think you should have something a little more developed than that

Disagree on Urist. Mafia would generally be more self-aware than that imo. They would ask their scummates in scumchat, not ask a question to the thread that makes them look bad.

Overall I dislike the spamming of posts which just repeat that they are town, and how great it is to be town, and hoping others are town with them.

Explain what is scummy about this. I'm curious

I like being town and I'm not sorry about it

Urist - I take the song as slightly scummy if anything. Reasoning? Trying too hard.

They scumread dizzy as 99% mafia. Not sure how they can do that this early. Reeks of a fake read or bussing for credit.

Softing PR this early is also kid of scummy imo. Its bad if you are really PR, and Urist is pretty good at mafia from looking at the insane setup they created on 451, and its confusing for town if you are softing as a vanilla town, and makes it more likely to make a real PR pressured to out. Overall I hate it.

"I am town, and yes it's very cool. I get so emotionally exhausted when playing scum, it's ridic. Glad I don't have to do that here" - dislike statements like these and read them as slightly scummy, might just need to get some more forum games under my belt since I seem to see a lot of these "phew im so glad im town" posts on day 1 in forum games.

Eh, vanilla town soft PR roles all the time, or try to make themselves seem like they are a a PR, to draw the NK and protect the real PRs. Hard claiming is different though.

I don't really get your reads. I don't like that you have any town reads other then a null to town

I'm not exactly sure what the mafia motivation for you to narrate what you plan to do is though. Like narrating that you will scum read dizzy if he keeps doing X where obviously he can read this.

[Tangrowth]

If Alison doesn't have 200 posts and hasn't lynched at least 2 mafia by the end of day 0 then she's mafia.

stuff like this is why I feel obligated to bus a lot when I'm scum

btw you always post with a capital letter and end with punctuation and this is the first time i see u post with lowercase and no punctuation it felt like a special gift just for me cuz its like normally ur at the office talking business right but then ur at the coffee shop with me and thats why u dropped the capital letter and punctuation omg omg omg tysm alison ur wonderful and amazing and i wish u all the best

I really want to townread this.

I hard townread Tutuu currently but fyi in case you haven't played with them before, they have said they would use ATE without hesitation as mafia.

I am glad you've reminded of this.

I also think... mafia players have a bad habit in general of lumping all emotional playing into AtE when in reality reading players on emotion is so much more grey than that... and despite that it should be often used in my opinion! But I also realize everyone plays differently.

[Dyslexicon]

MP, I'm sorry about messing up your pronouns. I'm usually better with that. I hope it won't happen again. <3