Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[nutella]

All I ever wanted was a red flip with a juicy wagon to analyse to shreds.

(But I've realised I don't like night chat so I'm going to take the time off.)

alright well then

who da bussers

methinks proto, maybe wwh

I want to read you town so going to offer an olive branch.

If I am bussing, don't I want credit for the bus?

Look at my posts before voting. Do they look like they want credit?

Am I still mafia?

@nutella

Eh, probably not. I haven't totally discounted the possibility but I think you've been more towny than not since the flip.

I'm still uncertain about rabbit. He feels towny but I don't want to lock that in yet. Funnily enough, before EoD I thought that maybe he was deliberately doing some anti-TMI stuff to make people look at that as towny when Kaz flipped. That's obviously a stretch though.

I like this take. I've had moments of thinking rabbit just has to be lock town from meta, and moments of tinfoil and feeling like something's not quite right about him -- may just be the post cap cramping his style, but idk some stuff like his treatment of the amy slot and, yeah, his posturing prior to the kza flip have rubbed me wrong. Not a priority suspect but definitely someone to reevaluate later in the game.


[mention]tutuu[/mention] can you explain why I'm in your poe? I've been a major contributor to the burials of both kza and radishes and feel like I've been generally transparent with my thoughts and stuff so idk why I'm in your bottom tier? I can understand looking into me if radishes flips green but he and I are absolutely never w/w here lol.

[nutella]

Updating

town, roughly ordered
nanook
benson
tutuu
amy
--- [more reservations from here down]
hally
tim
dizzy
wwh
proto
lc (?)
iaafr

meh/lean scum
alison
colin
cbob

kill with fire
radish




I can't really remember anything from LC yesterday including when or why he voted kza. Warrants a look. I was tone reading him town earlier but now that stuff has actually happened he can't rest on that early read. Also Tim had that weirdly specific and strong interpretation of him that I never really followed the justification for, and I'm trying to sort out how I feel about Tim as well. I had reasons to think he's just town but he's made a lot of very odd posts tbh. I don't really think the nanook push is particularly likely to come from scum though?

[Benson]

All I ever wanted was a red flip with a juicy wagon to analyse to shreds.

(But I've realised I don't like night chat so I'm going to take the time off.)

alright well then

who da bussers

methinks proto, maybe wwh

I want to read you town so going to offer an olive branch.

If I am bussing, don't I want credit for the bus?

Look at my posts before voting. Do they look like they want credit?

Am I still mafia?

@nutella

Eh, probably not. I haven't totally discounted the possibility but I think you've been more towny than not since the flip.

I'm still uncertain about rabbit. He feels towny but I don't want to lock that in yet. Funnily enough, before EoD I thought that maybe he was deliberately doing some anti-TMI stuff to make people look at that as towny when Kaz flipped. That's obviously a stretch though.

I like this take. I've had moments of thinking rabbit just has to be lock town from meta, and moments of tinfoil and feeling like something's not quite right about him -- may just be the post cap cramping his style, but idk some stuff like his treatment of the amy slot and, yeah, his posturing prior to the kza flip have rubbed me wrong. Not a priority suspect but definitely someone to reevaluate later in the game.


@tutuu can you explain why I'm in your poe? I've been a major contributor to the burials of both kza and radishes and feel like I've been generally transparent with my thoughts and stuff so idk why I'm in your bottom tier? I can understand looking into me if radishes flips green but he and I are absolutely never w/w here lol.

You're almost speaking like MR has already flipped wolf. We still aren't there yet.

Fwiw, I definitely town read you, but you and MR can be a pair in some worlds. Especially when you consider that early on both of you were somewhat under the gun and distancing may not have been a terrible plan.


Random, but I'll take a stab and say the wolves are probably feeling unmotivated here, unless the general core is really compromised.

[tutuu]

ok sorry if ur town nutella when i said "didnt read lol" i actually meant it btw and like, i didnt force everyone to sheep me and stuff. i didnt want the position of mayor. ill try harder if i survive the night

[iaafr]

probably not gonna do anything in this game this next game day, consensus too strong, dc enough

[nutella]

some LC stuff

Spoiler: show

in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

I didn't know about this code. I'm going to switch to Colin for his phony post. [VOTE: Coliniscool] aubergine

Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

idk sometimes i do associatives it’s not really new for me

so like, i think radish/nanook are possible w/w because nanook kinda sandwiched radishes into his tr’s early even though i don’t think radishes really belongs there. wolves tend to like to lump teammates in with villagers

nanook/nut not aligned because i dont see any reason why nut would push on nanook here as w/w. could she? like yea it’s not out of her wolf range but like... why would she when nanook is not under threat

radishes/nut not aligned because i don’t think w!radishes would defend w!nut like that when she was getting wagoned. it had an air of tmi to it, like he knew nut was a villager and wanted to keep his hands clean of anything having to do with the push/maybe even pocket nut

that’s the associatives i have in that group of three. obviously not set in stone but yea

These associatives require a lot of assumptions and I'm mostly inclined to think you made them up honestly. Like you have a set of assumptions about how mafia would play, like never bus D1, and I'm left with more questions than answers. Why is someone who townreads someone who doesn't deserve it wolves with them, and not wolf whiteknighting/TMI-ing a town, or just town with a weird read? Why can't wolves use D1 to distance knowing full well that their interactions will be referred to later down the road?

It's not even necessarily a question of "Hally is wrong", it's like you're concocting a narrative of the spot and trying to push it on us in lieu of doing actual investigative work, which is why I was kinda skeeved out by your random associative analysis that didn't seem to lead anywhere and felt extremely premature.

nutella: Just when you're trending up on my radar, I'm trending down on yours. :P

i’m not married to any of this analysis since we don’t even have flips yet but i believe the assumptions i’m making are more often true than not. i don’t hard align nanook/radishes but i think it’s possible. i would say i’m much more confident in nut/radishes and nut/nanook not being aligned then radishes/nanook being aligned

like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk what to tell you. sometimes i have thoughts based on assumptions that may not be correct or fully formed. it’s the nature of making reads in a game in which i know nothing

i’m honestly not sure why you have a problem with this. i think you’re just calling it fake because you’re either already tunneled on sc being a wolf and don’t wanna give me a chance or a wolf who doesn’t wanna let this mislim slip away because you can see i’m already working my way out of the hole

it’s fine though, we tend to have different approaches and ways of thinking about interactions so it could just be that

I heavily vibed with the bolded take on Alison's treatment of Hally's slot. It should be a good thing that Hally came in and towned it up to pull their slot up out of a tight spot. Alison looks like she doesn't want this to happen.

I also had that thought. It might be influenced by the feeling that Hally is just very likely to be able to work herself out of the hole Scirrus had dug. It's not that deep a hole at this time, and Hally is an impassioned player who would have to sit in a shallow hole and feel sorry for herself, and I just don't see that happening. Given, then, that a Hally townread is a very high probability, Alison's continued scumread stood out quite a bit. "But we're supposed to townread Hally now! *points to script*"

Is Alison a wolf pushing hard on someone she shouldn't be, or is she just someone who doesn't accept that script?

yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

I push on mafia looking posts and events. Most of those are gonna come from town. That's the nature of day one. I'm not trying to kill Proto. I'm not really trying to kill Nanook even though I put a vote on him. This is all just stirring the day one pot and looking at what is floating around.

I am a solver sometimes, but never an instant solver. I actually count more on stronger readers than myself to analyze all this stuff. I just man the oar and keep the pot stirred, mostly.

No need to apologize for making reads. If they are wrong they are wrong, but no one bats a thousand...even if Nanook is claiming that he does.

@Master Radishes in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

@Benson I acknowledge your point and no I am no more interested in chopping him than I was in chopping Amy, and do not really expect that it will be happening.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I apologize for failing to treat you with the assumed respect that you think you have earned in previous play. I am just a rube from the hinterlands and unaware of the history and traditions of your little pond here. I have however played with Visorslash, Amrock, Pizza, Zack, and a fair number of other players of substantial reputation and have been insufficiently respectful towards all of them as well, so you are in good company.

I don’t think that was called for, I don’t remember saying “you should treat me with respect cause I’m a Very Important Player” or whatever. Certainly wasn’t my intent to give that impression anyways. Idk why this, like, condescending while at the same time painting me as condescending tone is called for, tbh?

Condescension² turnaround! Masterful!

Also, he's still voting for Hally when the script obviously says that was Day 1 Act 1 only.

"script" thing is odd. he says that both alison and colin are going off "script" in staying on hally after they subbed in (in colin's case I don't think he'd even been online in the interim lol). he's agreeing with a take I liked about Alison but the way he frames it feels like a potentially wolfy perception of the threadstate. like, "oh, that slot isn't actually a viable push anymore bc most of the towncore townreads hally now. guess I should go with the flow on that and shade anyone who doesn't"

ive never gotten the argument that scattered wagons are inherently harder to catch scum with than consolidated wagons tbqh

Well, really I'm just trying to stir things up because MOVEMENT is what really makes for reads. If there had been like consolidated wagons already I would have made a different movement inducing speech. Thanks for blowing the gig Rabbit.

Your post did make me consider my Colin vote. Is Colin a possibility? People aren't really talking about him right now, but I think his name came up a few times before. He hasn't been on in almost 24 hours and he's still voting for Scirrus... not Hally, he hasn't seen Hally yet afaict. I looked at his ISO and I am pinged by some of his posts. I like him as a candidate.

That said, if it ain't happening today, then I'm not going to cling to it as a vanity vote.

Well like I said it's not a "never ever rescind" townclear, it's "I'm never voting for these people today and probably not in the near future"
I really don't think Hally's progression was faked though. Tim maybe the slightly weaker clear for that.

I went back and forth on Scirrus a bit. I didn't like his RP entrance, but I started liking his catchup posts and felt he was responding to various things with a genuine mindset, and then I made the comparison to the lion king game and went back to feeling less good about him.

Interestingly, Dizzy had a scumread of scirrus, but hasn't acknowledged hally since the sub. I find myself kind of trapped in a loop where I've decided I'm trusting hally, so I have to trust their godread on dizzy, but if dizzy still scumreads hally I have to listen to that as well and worry if hally was just trying to pocket dizzy....

What's a godread? A read directly from God? Why do you have to trust the read of someone you profess to trust?

additional shade of colin. feels like he's trying to push him as the lhf candidate for d1, using the above reason, and then when he realized colin hadn't even been around to see hally he looks for additional backup reasoning that he is pinged by his posts in general. this could come from town, but it's not hard to see potential wolf agenda there.

Spoiler: show

Anyway, thanks tutuu and Tim. Softs aren’t my thing; unless someone says like ‘I’m gonna shoot you in the face tonight’ I probably won’t notice it.

I'm gonna shoot you in the face tonight for disrespecting my wolf game.


Also, I'm probably not putting a high priority on protecting softs in a game that's been described as "light role madness".

Conflicted in this post from Benson. Hi Benson btw never played with you. Cool dolphin. Want to townread you slightly just for that. #jokingnotjoking.

So the first bit is like setting himself up to claim frame if MR dies and then wifom defence. I don't like it. Not calling them scummy but I don't like it.

Second bit re role madness, kind of agree but how many roles do people expect in a role madness closed setup? I guess this could be NAI but I had the same thought re "I don't really care that you sorted in a role madness game" so slightly townread the post.

I don't like this post, and not just because you called his beluga a dolphin. Although a feel the same way from an 'avatar read' standpoint - how can you be mad at a whale that cute?

The waffly second line bugs me as a level 1 kind of thought that might be more likely to occur to a wolf who is going to have to think about their kill tonight.

I expect everyone to have some sort of role in a role madness closed setup. This part is waffly (waffley?) as well.

The whole post, in a nutshell: Townread (maybe not really) for NAI element. Scumread (actually not but watch out mister) on joke post. Townread (maybe NAI though) on half-mechanical subject.

All in all, boo. I'd vote proto if that were a thing today.

Anyway, thanks tutuu and Tim. Softs aren’t my thing; unless someone says like ‘I’m gonna shoot you in the face tonight’ I probably won’t notice it.

I'm gonna shoot you in the face tonight for disrespecting my wolf game.


Also, I'm probably not putting a high priority on protecting softs in a game that's been described as "light role madness".

Conflicted in this post from Benson. Hi Benson btw never played with you. Cool dolphin. Want to townread you slightly just for that. #jokingnotjoking.

So the first bit is like setting himself up to claim frame if MR dies and then wifom defence. I don't like it. Not calling them scummy but I don't like it.

Second bit re role madness, kind of agree but how many roles do people expect in a role madness closed setup? I guess this could be NAI but I had the same thought re "I don't really care that you sorted in a role madness game" so slightly townread the post.

I don't like this post, and not just because you called his beluga a dolphin. Although a feel the same way from an 'avatar read' standpoint - how can you be mad at a whale that cute?

The waffly second line bugs me as a level 1 kind of thought that might be more likely to occur to a wolf who is going to have to think about their kill tonight.

I expect everyone to have some sort of role in a role madness closed setup. This part is waffly (waffley?) as well.

The whole post, in a nutshell: Townread (maybe not really) for NAI element. Scumread (actually not but watch out mister) on joke post. Townread (maybe NAI though) on half-mechanical subject.

All in all, boo. I'd vote proto if that were a thing today.

47/60

Another interesting take. I feel that for me the initial post to me seems like a villager maybe trying to leave room to change reads later

Change what reads??

Shade on proto for being waffly. The implied strength of this read kind of feels unnatural.

Viable wagons that I see for tonight:

Hally (it's still viable if tutuu, Alison, and me (to a degree) are suspecting that slot)
MR
Amy
Kza
Colin/Bob I don't fucking care

In don't see anything outside this happening.

You don't think a nutella wagon is viable?

???? dunno what this is

There’s a significantly above rand chance KZA is mafia.

Sheep me for the glory.

@Hally this is the scumread I told you I’d have later btw

Come sheep it plz

Ok, Mr Soft, let's see where this goes then. [VOTE: KZA] aubergine

and the kza vote. it's a reasonably quick sheep of nanook, seasoned with lending credence to nanook's perceived town-importance, but if LC is a wolf I'd think he could easily sense where the winds would blow from here. earlier he was tossing colin's name in the ring as the designated lhf yeet, but as soon as he sees big bad nanook declare war on kza, that's prime bussing time.


obviously not a slam dunk but I think LC could easily be a wolf here (probably only if Colin is town)

[tutuu]

on the bright side nutella looks like me and u have like the exact same reads except replacing nutella with alison!

i feel bad for wrongly scumreading towns. but pls understand my position too, like, sometimes ur just wrong

[nutella]

LC also had never mentioned KZA before the vote, AND appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish. That's a big yikes. I'm entering a tunnel boyz

[nutella]

And yeah I'm basically treating radish as flipped wolf, I struggle to see otherwise at this point, deal with it

[nutella]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

[mention]Long Con[/mention] anything to say about this?

[iaafr]

boy I sure hope 3 of Bob radishes LC Colin are scum or else this game might get annoying

[Hally]

Spoiler: show

some LC stuff

Spoiler: show

in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

I didn't know about this code. I'm going to switch to Colin for his phony post. [VOTE: Coliniscool] aubergine

Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

idk sometimes i do associatives it’s not really new for me

so like, i think radish/nanook are possible w/w because nanook kinda sandwiched radishes into his tr’s early even though i don’t think radishes really belongs there. wolves tend to like to lump teammates in with villagers

nanook/nut not aligned because i dont see any reason why nut would push on nanook here as w/w. could she? like yea it’s not out of her wolf range but like... why would she when nanook is not under threat

radishes/nut not aligned because i don’t think w!radishes would defend w!nut like that when she was getting wagoned. it had an air of tmi to it, like he knew nut was a villager and wanted to keep his hands clean of anything having to do with the push/maybe even pocket nut

that’s the associatives i have in that group of three. obviously not set in stone but yea

These associatives require a lot of assumptions and I'm mostly inclined to think you made them up honestly. Like you have a set of assumptions about how mafia would play, like never bus D1, and I'm left with more questions than answers. Why is someone who townreads someone who doesn't deserve it wolves with them, and not wolf whiteknighting/TMI-ing a town, or just town with a weird read? Why can't wolves use D1 to distance knowing full well that their interactions will be referred to later down the road?

It's not even necessarily a question of "Hally is wrong", it's like you're concocting a narrative of the spot and trying to push it on us in lieu of doing actual investigative work, which is why I was kinda skeeved out by your random associative analysis that didn't seem to lead anywhere and felt extremely premature.

nutella: Just when you're trending up on my radar, I'm trending down on yours. :P

i’m not married to any of this analysis since we don’t even have flips yet but i believe the assumptions i’m making are more often true than not. i don’t hard align nanook/radishes but i think it’s possible. i would say i’m much more confident in nut/radishes and nut/nanook not being aligned then radishes/nanook being aligned

like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk what to tell you. sometimes i have thoughts based on assumptions that may not be correct or fully formed. it’s the nature of making reads in a game in which i know nothing

i’m honestly not sure why you have a problem with this. i think you’re just calling it fake because you’re either already tunneled on sc being a wolf and don’t wanna give me a chance or a wolf who doesn’t wanna let this mislim slip away because you can see i’m already working my way out of the hole

it’s fine though, we tend to have different approaches and ways of thinking about interactions so it could just be that

I heavily vibed with the bolded take on Alison's treatment of Hally's slot. It should be a good thing that Hally came in and towned it up to pull their slot up out of a tight spot. Alison looks like she doesn't want this to happen.

I also had that thought. It might be influenced by the feeling that Hally is just very likely to be able to work herself out of the hole Scirrus had dug. It's not that deep a hole at this time, and Hally is an impassioned player who would have to sit in a shallow hole and feel sorry for herself, and I just don't see that happening. Given, then, that a Hally townread is a very high probability, Alison's continued scumread stood out quite a bit. "But we're supposed to townread Hally now! *points to script*"

Is Alison a wolf pushing hard on someone she shouldn't be, or is she just someone who doesn't accept that script?

yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

I push on mafia looking posts and events. Most of those are gonna come from town. That's the nature of day one. I'm not trying to kill Proto. I'm not really trying to kill Nanook even though I put a vote on him. This is all just stirring the day one pot and looking at what is floating around.

I am a solver sometimes, but never an instant solver. I actually count more on stronger readers than myself to analyze all this stuff. I just man the oar and keep the pot stirred, mostly.

No need to apologize for making reads. If they are wrong they are wrong, but no one bats a thousand...even if Nanook is claiming that he does.

@Master Radishes in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

@Benson I acknowledge your point and no I am no more interested in chopping him than I was in chopping Amy, and do not really expect that it will be happening.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I apologize for failing to treat you with the assumed respect that you think you have earned in previous play. I am just a rube from the hinterlands and unaware of the history and traditions of your little pond here. I have however played with Visorslash, Amrock, Pizza, Zack, and a fair number of other players of substantial reputation and have been insufficiently respectful towards all of them as well, so you are in good company.

I don’t think that was called for, I don’t remember saying “you should treat me with respect cause I’m a Very Important Player” or whatever. Certainly wasn’t my intent to give that impression anyways. Idk why this, like, condescending while at the same time painting me as condescending tone is called for, tbh?

Condescension² turnaround! Masterful!

Also, he's still voting for Hally when the script obviously says that was Day 1 Act 1 only.

"script" thing is odd. he says that both alison and colin are going off "script" in staying on hally after they subbed in (in colin's case I don't think he'd even been online in the interim lol). he's agreeing with a take I liked about Alison but the way he frames it feels like a potentially wolfy perception of the threadstate. like, "oh, that slot isn't actually a viable push anymore bc most of the towncore townreads hally now. guess I should go with the flow on that and shade anyone who doesn't"

ive never gotten the argument that scattered wagons are inherently harder to catch scum with than consolidated wagons tbqh

Well, really I'm just trying to stir things up because MOVEMENT is what really makes for reads. If there had been like consolidated wagons already I would have made a different movement inducing speech. Thanks for blowing the gig Rabbit.

Your post did make me consider my Colin vote. Is Colin a possibility? People aren't really talking about him right now, but I think his name came up a few times before. He hasn't been on in almost 24 hours and he's still voting for Scirrus... not Hally, he hasn't seen Hally yet afaict. I looked at his ISO and I am pinged by some of his posts. I like him as a candidate.

That said, if it ain't happening today, then I'm not going to cling to it as a vanity vote.

Well like I said it's not a "never ever rescind" townclear, it's "I'm never voting for these people today and probably not in the near future"
I really don't think Hally's progression was faked though. Tim maybe the slightly weaker clear for that.

I went back and forth on Scirrus a bit. I didn't like his RP entrance, but I started liking his catchup posts and felt he was responding to various things with a genuine mindset, and then I made the comparison to the lion king game and went back to feeling less good about him.

Interestingly, Dizzy had a scumread of scirrus, but hasn't acknowledged hally since the sub. I find myself kind of trapped in a loop where I've decided I'm trusting hally, so I have to trust their godread on dizzy, but if dizzy still scumreads hally I have to listen to that as well and worry if hally was just trying to pocket dizzy....

What's a godread? A read directly from God? Why do you have to trust the read of someone you profess to trust?

additional shade of colin. feels like he's trying to push him as the lhf candidate for d1, using the above reason, and then when he realized colin hadn't even been around to see hally he looks for additional backup reasoning that he is pinged by his posts in general. this could come from town, but it's not hard to see potential wolf agenda there.

Spoiler: show

Anyway, thanks tutuu and Tim. Softs aren’t my thing; unless someone says like ‘I’m gonna shoot you in the face tonight’ I probably won’t notice it.

I'm gonna shoot you in the face tonight for disrespecting my wolf game.


Also, I'm probably not putting a high priority on protecting softs in a game that's been described as "light role madness".

Conflicted in this post from Benson. Hi Benson btw never played with you. Cool dolphin. Want to townread you slightly just for that. #jokingnotjoking.

So the first bit is like setting himself up to claim frame if MR dies and then wifom defence. I don't like it. Not calling them scummy but I don't like it.

Second bit re role madness, kind of agree but how many roles do people expect in a role madness closed setup? I guess this could be NAI but I had the same thought re "I don't really care that you sorted in a role madness game" so slightly townread the post.

I don't like this post, and not just because you called his beluga a dolphin. Although a feel the same way from an 'avatar read' standpoint - how can you be mad at a whale that cute?

The waffly second line bugs me as a level 1 kind of thought that might be more likely to occur to a wolf who is going to have to think about their kill tonight.

I expect everyone to have some sort of role in a role madness closed setup. This part is waffly (waffley?) as well.

The whole post, in a nutshell: Townread (maybe not really) for NAI element. Scumread (actually not but watch out mister) on joke post. Townread (maybe NAI though) on half-mechanical subject.

All in all, boo. I'd vote proto if that were a thing today.

Anyway, thanks tutuu and Tim. Softs aren’t my thing; unless someone says like ‘I’m gonna shoot you in the face tonight’ I probably won’t notice it.

I'm gonna shoot you in the face tonight for disrespecting my wolf game.


Also, I'm probably not putting a high priority on protecting softs in a game that's been described as "light role madness".

Conflicted in this post from Benson. Hi Benson btw never played with you. Cool dolphin. Want to townread you slightly just for that. #jokingnotjoking.

So the first bit is like setting himself up to claim frame if MR dies and then wifom defence. I don't like it. Not calling them scummy but I don't like it.

Second bit re role madness, kind of agree but how many roles do people expect in a role madness closed setup? I guess this could be NAI but I had the same thought re "I don't really care that you sorted in a role madness game" so slightly townread the post.

I don't like this post, and not just because you called his beluga a dolphin. Although a feel the same way from an 'avatar read' standpoint - how can you be mad at a whale that cute?

The waffly second line bugs me as a level 1 kind of thought that might be more likely to occur to a wolf who is going to have to think about their kill tonight.

I expect everyone to have some sort of role in a role madness closed setup. This part is waffly (waffley?) as well.

The whole post, in a nutshell: Townread (maybe not really) for NAI element. Scumread (actually not but watch out mister) on joke post. Townread (maybe NAI though) on half-mechanical subject.

All in all, boo. I'd vote proto if that were a thing today.

47/60

Another interesting take. I feel that for me the initial post to me seems like a villager maybe trying to leave room to change reads later

Change what reads??

Shade on proto for being waffly. The implied strength of this read kind of feels unnatural.

Viable wagons that I see for tonight:

Hally (it's still viable if tutuu, Alison, and me (to a degree) are suspecting that slot)
MR
Amy
Kza
Colin/Bob I don't fucking care

In don't see anything outside this happening.

You don't think a nutella wagon is viable?

???? dunno what this is

There’s a significantly above rand chance KZA is mafia.

Sheep me for the glory.

@Hally this is the scumread I told you I’d have later btw

Come sheep it plz

Ok, Mr Soft, let's see where this goes then. [VOTE: KZA] aubergine

and the kza vote. it's a reasonably quick sheep of nanook, seasoned with lending credence to nanook's perceived town-importance, but if LC is a wolf I'd think he could easily sense where the winds would blow from here. earlier he was tossing colin's name in the ring as the designated lhf yeet, but as soon as he sees big bad nanook declare war on kza, that's prime bussing time.


obviously not a slam dunk but I think LC could easily be a wolf here (probably only if Colin is town)

kinda like these takes tbh

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

i also would say that yea, if lc is a wolf i think colin and alison maybe are probably not?

not sure how tim fits into this with his read on lc that i thought was kinda weird. idk if that was a genuine tr, trying to shoehorn a teammate into being town read or tmi-ing lc town if tim is a wolf

where i’m looking for wolves is in like

tim
lc
colin
bob
alison
radishes

with the caveat that some of these players are likely not w/w with each other

i feel pretty good about everyone else being town rn i think

[iaafr]

ye

[iaafr]

kza spewed me town btw

[WerewolfHunter]

probably not gonna do anything in this game this next game day, consensus too strong, dc enough

21

I think we mostly have a consensus. However, that might mean evils are on board with it

[iaafr]

we engineered it in wolfchat

[WerewolfHunter]

And yeah I'm basically treating radish as flipped wolf, I struggle to see otherwise at this point, deal with it

22

Agreed. I have the same thought as well

[iaafr]

I consider Alison's progression on kza clearing enough to put her above my immediate Poe


so my immediate Poe is

radishes LC Tim Bob Colin (ordered)

[Hally]

i feel like all alison has done since i’ve been in the game is tunnel me

i don’t actually remember any takes she’s given on anyone else except me? but this might be my own biased view as the subject of her tunnel. would need to check her iso to see if that’s in fact true

idk i don’t think tunneling is really like... wolfy for alison? she can easily do it as town. but she’s aware enough of this and also definitely does it as wolf too when she thinks it fits her agenda

when did alison make that post like “sheep me on hally i will take responsibility for being wrong”? was that after the kza wagon grew? if so i can see that being powerwolfing but it also kinda seems twtbaw for alison idk

its hard for me to evaluate her knowing she is tunneling town nonstop but maybe others have a better perspective

[iaafr]

ya idk I think Alison town but probably 6th in my poe sure


30/30 bai

[Benson]

kza spewed me town btw

Lol. I'm leaning that way. That was like one of the few things to read into in his ISO.


Nute, the LC analysis is good and appreciated. He needs to be shoved back into the poe certainly.

[WerewolfHunter]

kza spewed me town btw

Lol. I'm leaning that way. That was like one of the few things to read into in his ISO.


Nute, the LC analysis is good and appreciated. He needs to be shoved back into the poe certainly.

23

Certainly leaning town on Iaafr here

[Long Con]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

@Long Con anything to say about this?

Not really. I haven't said anything about more players than just Radish. I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish. I'm less convinced about bob; he's appeared on quite a few scum team lists, but he feels more like the fourth player in the salad than the guy with strong cases against him,

Don't read too deeply into the "script" thing. I was just in a funny mood, it's not intended totally seriously. More like... a half-tongue-in-cheek parody of how I saw the reception of Hally's entrance, and hole-emancipation.

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

Oh, yes. I do love to bus, and I like to get in there early if possible. If you want to read this as a bus, it is exactly in line with my wolf game. I'm not a wolf this time though, I voted KZA because Nanook has something going on and I decided to trust that he knew something.

I don't want to overstep, but possibly a doctor should protect Nanook tonight? I don't think that KZA had posted enough for Nanook to nail him so confidently without something going on, so keeping Nanook around is probably in our best interest.

[Benson]

i feel like all alison has done since i’ve been in the game is tunnel me

i don’t actually remember any takes she’s given on anyone else except me? but this might be my own biased view as the subject of her tunnel. would need to check her iso to see if that’s in fact true

idk i don’t think tunneling is really like... wolfy for alison? she can easily do it as town. but she’s aware enough of this and also definitely does it as wolf too when she thinks it fits her agenda

when did alison make that post like “sheep me on hally i will take responsibility for being wrong”? was that after the kza wagon grew? if so i can see that being powerwolfing but it also kinda seems twtbaw for alison idk

its hard for me to evaluate her knowing she is tunneling town nonstop but maybe others have a better perspective

But Alison has switched to prioritizing MR now. Or are you just referring to the previous round?

That post about sheeping onto to you was almost certainly before Kaz was relevant. When Kaz finally popped-in she said it looked horrible but still quietly remained in support of your wagon over that one. Near the end she even said she thought her push was better.

So I still see this as a potential powerwolf if you are town. And that would certainly fit with her evident lack of motivation following the events of last round. It's not hard to imagine why you the wolves would be frustrated with this game if your slot is indeed town, but I shouldn't talk about that too much.
I'm not pushing Alison as a wolf here btw; but I think she rightful belongs in the upper-PoE.

[WerewolfHunter]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

@Long Con anything to say about this?

Not really. I haven't said anything about more players than just Radish. I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish. I'm less convinced about bob; he's appeared on quite a few scum team lists, but he feels more like the fourth player in the salad than the guy with strong cases against him,

Don't read too deeply into the "script" thing. I was just in a funny mood, it's not intended totally seriously. More like... a half-tongue-in-cheek parody of how I saw the reception of Hally's entrance, and hole-emancipation.

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

Oh, yes. I do love to bus, and I like to get in there early if possible. If you want to read this as a bus, it is exactly in line with my wolf game. I'm not a wolf this time though, I voted KZA because Nanook has something going on and I decided to trust that he knew something.

I don't want to overstep, but possibly a doctor should protect Nanook tonight? I don't think that KZA had posted enough for Nanook to nail him so confidently without something going on, so keeping Nanook around is probably in our best interest.

24

I might also bus as evil but not this time.

Is there somewhere to look at ideas of roles? I also don't really understand what a doctor would do if we have one. I guess sites differences are confusing

[Long Con]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

@Long Con anything to say about this?

Not really. I haven't said anything about more players than just Radish. I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish. I'm less convinced about bob; he's appeared on quite a few scum team lists, but he feels more like the fourth player in the salad than the guy with strong cases against him,

Don't read too deeply into the "script" thing. I was just in a funny mood, it's not intended totally seriously. More like... a half-tongue-in-cheek parody of how I saw the reception of Hally's entrance, and hole-emancipation.

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

Oh, yes. I do love to bus, and I like to get in there early if possible. If you want to read this as a bus, it is exactly in line with my wolf game. I'm not a wolf this time though, I voted KZA because Nanook has something going on and I decided to trust that he knew something.

I don't want to overstep, but possibly a doctor should protect Nanook tonight? I don't think that KZA had posted enough for Nanook to nail him so confidently without something going on, so keeping Nanook around is probably in our best interest.

24

I might also bus as evil but not this time.

Is there somewhere to look at ideas of roles? I also don't really understand what a doctor would do if we have one. I guess sites differences are confusing

A doctor is a protector. Choose one player in the night to target, that player will survive one or all kill attempts against them. Sorry, I don't know about a lexicon, I guess MafiaUniverse has a robust one.

[WerewolfHunter]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

@Long Con anything to say about this?

Not really. I haven't said anything about more players than just Radish. I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish. I'm less convinced about bob; he's appeared on quite a few scum team lists, but he feels more like the fourth player in the salad than the guy with strong cases against him,

Don't read too deeply into the "script" thing. I was just in a funny mood, it's not intended totally seriously. More like... a half-tongue-in-cheek parody of how I saw the reception of Hally's entrance, and hole-emancipation.

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

Oh, yes. I do love to bus, and I like to get in there early if possible. If you want to read this as a bus, it is exactly in line with my wolf game. I'm not a wolf this time though, I voted KZA because Nanook has something going on and I decided to trust that he knew something.

I don't want to overstep, but possibly a doctor should protect Nanook tonight? I don't think that KZA had posted enough for Nanook to nail him so confidently without something going on, so keeping Nanook around is probably in our best interest.

24

I might also bus as evil but not this time.

Is there somewhere to look at ideas of roles? I also don't really understand what a doctor would do if we have one. I guess sites differences are confusing

A doctor is a protector. Choose one player in the night to target, that player will survive one or all kill attempts against them. Sorry, I don't know about a lexicon, I guess MafiaUniverse has a robust one.

25

Thank you.

[Hally]

appears to have zero interactions or mentions of Radish

@Long Con anything to say about this?

Not really. I haven't said anything about more players than just Radish. I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish. I'm less convinced about bob; he's appeared on quite a few scum team lists, but he feels more like the fourth player in the salad than the guy with strong cases against him,

Don't read too deeply into the "script" thing. I was just in a funny mood, it's not intended totally seriously. More like... a half-tongue-in-cheek parody of how I saw the reception of Hally's entrance, and hole-emancipation.

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

Oh, yes. I do love to bus, and I like to get in there early if possible. If you want to read this as a bus, it is exactly in line with my wolf game. I'm not a wolf this time though, I voted KZA because Nanook has something going on and I decided to trust that he knew something.

I don't want to overstep, but possibly a doctor should protect Nanook tonight? I don't think that KZA had posted enough for Nanook to nail him so confidently without something going on, so keeping Nanook around is probably in our best interest.

i feel like you’re acting differently than the games i’ve seen you as town but i’m not sure if i can place how

do you feel like you’re different? and is that a conscious decision on your part?

can others who have played with lc also comment on this? am i seeing an actual difference here?

[Hally]

“I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish.”

this part in particular

since when does town!lc follow along with others? ime town!lc is a cowboy maverick who doesn’t give a single shit what other people are doing. he does what he wants and is not one to sheep

am i off in this assessment? [mention]nutella[/mention] [mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]

[nutella]

he does sheep sometimes as town too i think

i couldn't really tell you anything consistent about lc he's just a zany guy

i've known him for over 12 years and have probably played more games with him than with any other single player and yet he's always kind of a question mark

[Hally]

he does sheep sometimes as town too i think

i couldn't really tell you anything consistent about lc he's just a zany guy

i've known him for over 12 years and have probably played more games with him than with any other single player and yet he's always kind of a question mark

ok i stand corrected then ig

[Timsup2nothin]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

People who get to tell me who not to kill today:

Rabbit
Tutuu
Long Con
Alison
Beluga Whale

Problem being there may be one wolf in there.

People who I'm not terribly interested in killing today:

Proto
Amy
WWH
Nutella
Colin
Nanook

Likely to be a wolf in here though, maybe two.

People I would kill today out of hand with no remorse:

Dyzzy
Radishes
Hally
Bob

At least one, maybe two wolves here. Some of these people have to die to break up tunnels that are forming (or validate them).

[WerewolfHunter]

26

I still find Tim one of my top town reads here. same for Iafrr. I lean town on Hally, Nutella, Proto and Allsion. I'm with the consensus on the radish vote here.

[Timsup2nothin]

26

I still find Tim one of my top town reads here. same for Iafrr. I lean town on Hally, Nutella, Proto and Allsion. I'm with the consensus on the radish vote here.

Are you reading Alison's fixation on killing Hally as just a townish tunnel, or are you just ignoring it and reading on other factors?

[WerewolfHunter]

26

I still find Tim one of my top town reads here. same for Iafrr. I lean town on Hally, Nutella, Proto and Allsion. I'm with the consensus on the radish vote here.

Are you reading Alison's fixation on killing Hally as just a townish tunnel, or are you just ignoring it and reading on other factors?

27

For some reason, I'm bad at spotting tunnels but I'm been looking at a mix of factors there. I admit I am biased to individuals reading me well so that's one of them. I would need to iso but i feel that the overally way she is playing seems more town sided to me

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

“I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish.”

this part in particular

since when does town!lc follow along with others? ime town!lc is a cowboy maverick who doesn’t give a single shit what other people are doing. he does what he wants and is not one to sheep

am i off in this assessment? @nutella @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Could see this as an evolution of play fairly easily tbh, especially with me specifically, after a discussion we had in...jack attack, I think? Forget which game, might’ve been pyre.

That would be devil’s advocate argument anyways, idk which side I’ll fall on yet

[Timsup2nothin]

Everybody "follows along with others" lest their vote be left hanging uselessly on a vanity wagon.

Oh, hey, look...I made a big post specifically discouraging vanity wagon parking!

Oh, hey, look...LC actually supports the idea of vanity wagons being bad when he moves his vote.

The way people are luring themselves into a big discussion of his motivations when said motivations have actually been clearly spelled out is hilarious. Get to the bottom line...either you call LC a liar for misrepresenting his motives and chop with fire, or you accept his stated motives and don't. Speculation about whether some motive that he isn't claiming would be towny or wolfy for him just bypasses the important question. Did he tell the truth there?

[Hally]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

People who get to tell me who not to kill today:

Rabbit
Tutuu
Long Con
Alison
Beluga Whale

Problem being there may be one wolf in there.

People who I'm not terribly interested in killing today:

Proto
Amy
WWH
Nutella
Colin
Nanook

Likely to be a wolf in here though, maybe two.

People I would kill today out of hand with no remorse:

Dyzzy
Radishes
Hally
Bob

At least one, maybe two wolves here. Some of these people have to die to break up tunnels that are forming (or validate them).

i don’t really understand this post. i don’t think anyone is saying just to kill all lhf

like, radishes is not low hanging fruit. radishes is an amazing player who is not an easy lhf type of yeet. he’s just wolfy, but that doesn’t make him lhf

why would you wanna kill me? just because other ppl are tunneling me? that’s a bad reason if so. whats your read on my alignment though?

“I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish.”

this part in particular

since when does town!lc follow along with others? ime town!lc is a cowboy maverick who doesn’t give a single shit what other people are doing. he does what he wants and is not one to sheep

am i off in this assessment? @nutella @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Could see this as an evolution of play fairly easily tbh, especially with me specifically, after a discussion we had in...jack attack, I think? Forget which game, might’ve been pyre.

That would be devil’s advocate argument anyways, idk which side I’ll fall on yet

ok thanks

Everybody "follows along with others" lest their vote be left hanging uselessly on a vanity wagon.

Oh, hey, look...I made a big post specifically discouraging vanity wagon parking!

Oh, hey, look...LC actually supports the idea of vanity wagons being bad when he moves his vote.

The way people are luring themselves into a big discussion of his motivations when said motivations have actually been clearly spelled out is hilarious. Get to the bottom line...either you call LC a liar for misrepresenting his motives and chop with fire, or you accept his stated motives and don't. Speculation about whether some motive that he isn't claiming would be towny or wolfy for him just bypasses the important question. Did he tell the truth there?

i also don’t really understand this post lol

[Benson]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

Sir, this is a Tim Hortons.

[Timsup2nothin]

Being misunderstood is part of my charm.

Radishes in this game has made himself low hanging fruit. The people that want to chop him "have reason on their side." The people who don't will most likely bow out and let it happen rather than take a difficult stand. At best they will produce a lower hanging alternative. The village will grind complacently along until something remarkable happens. Potentially that remarkable thing might be a 'totally unexpected' green flip of Radishes...or Hally.

Hally was made LHF by absorbing the damaged slot from Scirrus. When things get tough and "everyone is soooooo towny!!!" starts echoing down the halls the murmur will start. Scirrus was the lead wagon. Scirrus was the most likely chop day one. Sure Hally towned it up, but still, that's only what we expect from Hally...

The complacent village looking for an easy way eventually gets to that. If they get to it today I will put up minimal resistance because maybe Hally is even a wolf after all. One of my strong town voices probably won't be much use until Hally is dead, so even if not a wolf some good comes of it when Hally dies.

Because once the obvious easy chops are dismissed, one way or another, the solving gets going. There's no way to talk rationally about who might be wolves right now, because too many people will just say "Radishes" until it gets tiresome.

Everyone in that lower group, to me, has about a fifty fifty chance of flipping wolf. Given that they started straight off the rand as a three to one bet AGAINST being a wolf they have obviously declined (Hally through no fault of her own). So I won't be crying for any of them. Assuming the town flips one of them, which seems far more likely than not, I hope they are a wolf. If the town makes me pick which one to flip I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[Timsup2nothin]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

Sir, this is a Tim Hortons.

Explain, for those who don't know the meme.

[Amy]

i'm probably not posting again until SOD

9/30

[WerewolfHunter]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

Sir, this is a Tim Hortons.

Explain, for those who don't know the meme.

28

I would be interesting in knowing about it

[WerewolfHunter]

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

Sir, this is a Tim Hortons.

Explain, for those who don't know the meme.

28

I would be interesting in knowing about it

[Benson]

Radish becoming a strong consensus isn't great for the thread state (if that's what you're saying) but he isn't really what I'd consider LHF. Neither is Hally in this slot. If she were maybe that elim would've happened yesterday. I'm assuming you're suggesting this to caution against the dangers of getting complacent and just eliming the easy wagons. I do agree that's a real thing. We can and should be discussing more than just Radish and Hally tomorrow.

I still am not grasping what you're arguing for, specifically? Like what do you want to happen?

Well this is exciting. I find it amusing that people who once had me as lock town are now fretting about me despite me having done nothing wolf like for me.

I put down a read on someone that everyone else claims to have no ability to read. I gave reasons. No one disagrees with my reasons, in fact most people seem to have just ignored that part. It seems they want to operate in a world of "we consensus read, then chop the LHF, and if we lose we lose with honor." I don't like to lose. If someone would invest the time they are spending tinfoiling me differentiating among the LHF since we actually don't have time to chop them all that would be great.

I point out wolfy things being done by people that you all want to just comfortably call town that might be a deep wolf you think it is okay to lose to. I'm not trying to kill them today...I just expect to be dead by the time you all rise up on your sheepy back legs and stop chopping through the LHF for the noble loss and look for who is orchestrating your doom. So I have to point at them now rather than later. Pardon me for thinking that catching the one easy wolf in the LHF doesn't justify "oh, hey, if we just chop all the LHF we'll get the rest," but I've seen that movie from the projection booth and it isn't likely to end well.

Sir, this is a Tim Hortons.

Explain, for those who don't know the meme.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sir-this-is-an-arbys
But with Tim Hortons since that was a meme in a Champs game this year (that Jimmy was in).
It doesn't sound funny when explaining it.

[nutella]

Did you not read game 7 bc smartbomb made the "sir this is a Wendy's" joke a bunch in it so that's also a champs meme lol. Ice actually done the "this is a tim hortons" combination joke before

[Benson]

Lol. Yes, that was he other part of it. I didn't feel like saying it though.
I thought I was being original here. Fuck.


Have to be honest and say I'm shook that WWH said she's regarding MR as a lock wolf basically (unless I misinterpreted that). Idk, it just doesn't fit with what I thought of her persona and I don't even know if she mentioned MR in a negative light prior to that.

[Long Con]

“I like him as scum, I'd probably follow along with a vote on him. I liked your take above with the three faces, he gets what he asked for and then buzzes off anyway. I'm pretty easy to influence when multiple towny players are feeling sure about a player, like Radish.”

this part in particular

since when does town!lc follow along with others? ime town!lc is a cowboy maverick who doesn’t give a single shit what other people are doing. he does what he wants and is not one to sheep

am i off in this assessment? @nutella @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

We haven't played that many games together. I don't know where you got that impression of me. It's pretty awesome, I'd like to think that I am that sometimes. Fuckin' cowboy maverick. I could be happy with that as my custom tagline, if I earned it sufficiently. It's been "So divine" for many years now... my avatar used to be from the George Washington song.

Following along in the first few days isn't unusual for me, I think. I get going better in the midgame.

[Timsup2nothin]

Radish becoming a strong consensus isn't great for the thread state (if that's what you're saying) but he isn't really what I'd consider LHF. Neither is Hally in this slot. If she were maybe that elim would've happened yesterday. I'm assuming you're suggesting this to caution against the dangers of getting complacent and just eliming the easy wagons. I do agree that's a real thing. We can and should be discussing more than just Radish and Hally tomorrow.

I still am not grasping what you're arguing for, specifically? Like what do you want to happen?

You have the gist.

I see "low hanging fruit" as a more dynamic thing. Even a player like Radishes or Hally can become low hanging fruit. It's a function of game state. For the vast majority of G10 I just followed along as the town chopped LHF after LHF. Some of those LHF were really good players, they just became obvious chops after everyone easier got chopped out from under them. LHF that were created by the game state as just the really obvious easy could be a wolf chop. No one turned, no one blinked, no one really put forward "unsanctioned" views...and the town died a sorrowful but totally predictable death.

I have no interest in this town doing the same. So basically what I am looking for is the people who are gonna play the "if you aren't talking chop Radishes you are probably a wolf protecting him" card. The people pushing a complacent consensus agenda.

Yes, I understand that I am opening myself up for the standard "Tim is trying to widen the POE!!!" outcry. That's fine, since the complacent consensus agenda gets broken up by that as well. The hypocrisy of trying to stuff me into the POE for trying to keep the POE from closing down to a perfunctory Radishes chop would be funny to watch.

Everyone needs to be made to defend themselves.

Even me.

Some people will say especially me. That's fine.

[Benson]

Radish becoming a strong consensus isn't great for the thread state (if that's what you're saying) but he isn't really what I'd consider LHF. Neither is Hally in this slot. If she were maybe that elim would've happened yesterday. I'm assuming you're suggesting this to caution against the dangers of getting complacent and just eliming the easy wagons. I do agree that's a real thing. We can and should be discussing more than just Radish and Hally tomorrow.

I still am not grasping what you're arguing for, specifically? Like what do you want to happen?

You have the gist.

I see "low hanging fruit" as a more dynamic thing. Even a player like Radishes or Hally can become low hanging fruit. It's a function of game state. For the vast majority of G10 I just followed along as the town chopped LHF after LHF. Some of those LHF were really good players, they just became obvious chops after everyone easier got chopped out from under them. LHF that were created by the game state as just the really obvious easy could be a wolf chop. No one turned, no one blinked, no one really put forward "unsanctioned" views...and the town died a sorrowful but totally predictable death.

I have no interest in this town doing the same. So basically what I am looking for is the people who are gonna play the "if you aren't talking chop Radishes you are probably a wolf protecting him" card. The people pushing a complacent consensus agenda.

Yes, I understand that I am opening myself up for the standard "Tim is trying to widen the POE!!!" outcry. That's fine, since the complacent consensus agenda gets broken up by that as well. The hypocrisy of trying to stuff me into the POE for trying to keep the POE from closing down to a perfunctory Radishes chop would be funny to watch.

Everyone needs to be made to defend themselves.

Even me.

Some people will say especially me. That's fine.

I agree with everything you've said. When I'm town I try to not let the game get on train tracks but it's easier said than done. That's one reason I don't often make lists unless I'm super confident in them. Because that can lock yourself into a confbiasing mindset where you start reading the game as if your reads are right. It's hard to stop yourself from doing that and gets harder the longer the game goes, of course.

So yes. Lots of players need to be examined tomorrow. I don't even think MR should actually be a sure deal at this point anyways. I mean, the cases thus far aren't much more compelling than "yeah, that's kinda wolfy".