Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Benson]

That hypo has no meaning other than me trying to understand how the wolves are submitting actions.

[Hally]

proto the fact that you strongly thought i was town D1 and now AFTER i 1) vote mafia D1, 2) push another mafia D1, 3) push another mafia D1 and correctly link him to his teammate that’s about to get yeeted and 4) claimed a role/action that is corroborated by like three other people

now... now you think i’m a wolf.... it’s kind of astounding

this is what i mean when i say stop the tinfoils and read the game. you had the correct read on me D1. if anything your read on me should now be stronger because of my push on bob who flipped mafia. but instead since i claimed something its tinfoil city time and i’m a wolf and you’re telling tutuu to waste her check on me

like... why don’t you just stick with your correct read on my alignment and stop focusing on the claims

[Benson]

Hally, in your world I think we find one of the prominent wolves within tim and rabbit. And I suppose it's not impossible for them to be teammed as well.

Colin's claim keeps getting worse with every development (now proto's).

[Benson]

Did you actually push Bob hard though? The only association that would clear you is MR which is...well destroyed now.

The vote on Kaz is meaningless. Why is that support for you?

[protocultures]

23/30

i edited my draft to death and had to start over. fml

Ill do it without the quotes.

Hally claims AFTER Nutella claims the shot AND after LC claims ping. This is extremely convenient.

The interesting part.

*insert flavor here*

ColonialBob has been killed! He was Plato (MAFIA), a member of the School of Athens!

GOTTEM

tutu lock clear

nut lock clear

lc lock clear

nanook lock clear

me lock clear

we’re rollin folks

Why does Hally clear Nutella? There isnt any reason to unless their town redirect ONLY works from mafia to town. Why cant MR be town who got redirected to LC by Hally? Why does this redirect clear nutella to Hally? I cant see any mech clear.

Also another interesting question. Why does Hally target Radishes in the first place? Thier last POE looked like this.

ezworld still colin bob radishes probs?

could rly be the world

imagine signing a light game and not expecting to get dunked on by a bunch of tryhards

yea, i wanna flip all of colin, bob and radishes

radishes first though

kinda like these takes tbh

i don’t think lc has really been towny and am not sure why he is being tr by some people. also doesn’t lc like to bus? if so i think he can easily be a bus vote on kza

i also would say that yea, if lc is a wolf i think colin and alison maybe are probably not?

not sure how tim fits into this with his read on lc that i thought was kinda weird. idk if that was a genuine tr, trying to shoehorn a teammate into being town read or tmi-ing lc town if tim is a wolf

where i’m looking for wolves is in like

tim
lc
colin
bob
alison
radishes

with the caveat that some of these players are likely not w/w with each other

i feel pretty good about everyone else being town rn i think

If Hally thinks mafia would use scummiest person to carry KP, why didnt they target their highest scumread? Was MR objectively the scummiest? Someone else gonna have toi say cos i cant get a sense of what the thread was feeling at the time on a catchup.

Now, another interesting question. Why does Hally redirect to LC instead of Tim or Bob or Colin?

It all just seems very convenient, and a great way to pocket LC because they would be mech confirmed from Hally POV if their claim was true.

[mention]tutuu[/mention] can you give thoughts on this? I know I been spamming with tinfoil all day, but this one needs a proper look imo.

[Hally]

Did you actually push Bob hard though? The only association that would clear you is MR which is...well destroyed now.

The vote on Kaz is meaningless. Why is that support for you?

i pushed for bob pretty hard

i called him wolfy repeatedly and he was at the bottom of my poe along with radishes

i didn’t call for his head because i was distracted by defending myself and pushing back on radishes. i viewed yeeting w!radishes as a higher priority than yeeting bob because i thought his flip would be more valuable to the town and that he was more dangerous if left alive

i’m about to be capped. here is my parting words for the night

i suggest [mention]tutuu[/mention] check wwh or colin. we won’t be able to actually resolve their alignments with anything but a check or a yeet

if it’s green, i think nanook should kill the other. if it’s red, kill the check

i wouldnt check proto or dizzy. i think both are town and they can be cleared through play more easily

if you wanna burn a check in the lc/nut/me group i can’t stop you but i think it’s suboptimal. i would be fine with it if it stops the tinfoils though

i’m unsure who i will redirect tonight but mafia can wifom that

gl

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool @WerewolfHunter please flavorclaim

@protocultures please fullclaim

dizzy should probably fullclaim too but i'm not tagging him yet

16/30

Camus

[tutuu]

@ColinIsCool @WerewolfHunter please flavorclaim

@protocultures please fullclaim

dizzy should probably fullclaim too but i'm not tagging him yet

16/30

Camus

Are you French or Algerian? (In your role PM)

[ColinIsCool]

French Existentialism (irl, born in Algeria)

[Timsup2nothin]

Hally here is why people are tinfoiling you.

I think the only way this game can get away from us is if you are bad. That doesn't mean that I think you are bad. It's a real observation on the state of the game. If you are exactly as you have presented the PoE is narrowed down so far and the town has so much mech power working that I think the game is effectively locked unless the one, maybe two, remaining wolves have some way to uncork massive kill power we can just investigate and kill through the POE and win this.

That does go sideways in the unlikely event that you are bad. It would put your power on the other side, throw a bunch of people back in the POE, and make it actually hard to win. Genuinely, no other single player does that if they are wrongly cleared. I mean, I'm a tinfoil favorite, but if I am bad all it means is that town wins later rather than sooner. I'm not the key to two other clears. I'm not a redirector that can screw with towns investigative power. I built a soapbox so Rabbit could talk more. That isn't going to salvage the game for the downtrodden wolves.

I'm not gonna push to have you investigated. I'm not even inclined to come up with any more tinfoily far fetched theories. I just wanted to explain that it isn't about you or your play here. It's just that circumstances have landed you at the focal point where really the only potential wolf that could pull this thing out for the wolf side seems to be you.

Or me I guess if:

A) I was a wolf, which I'm just not.
B) Tony really would let me build a nuclear weapon and blow up the whole town, which seems pretty extreme.
C) I wasn't spending my time building things to protect Tutuu instead, which she will be able to verify here at SoD.

Anyway, I'm done for the night phase. I know you can't answer until morning but I just wanted you to know that even though I was joking about tinfoiling just to aggravate you that wasn't really what it was about...and I don't think that's what it is about for anyone else either. Really you don't need to answer anything here anyway. I mostly just wanted to clarify in case the remaining wolf decides to NK me.

[WerewolfHunter]

I guess technically WWH belongs in the POE still but they seem so genuine when I’ve talked to them that I’m reluctant to include them lulz

25

I fully understand and think I should be in the poe personally. I am also more than happy being yeeted to help lead to a town read. lol. At this point I'm weirdly somewhat disappoinred I'm not

[WerewolfHunter]

I guess technically WWH belongs in the POE still but they seem so genuine when I’ve talked to them that I’m reluctant to include them lulz

25

I fully understand and think I should be in the poe personally. I am also more than happy being yeeted to help lead to a town read. lol. At this point I'm weirdly somewhat disappoinred I'm not

[nutella]

[mention]protocultures[/mention] I believe your claim and will not be voting for you tomorrow. However your tinfoil of hally makes zero sense and is really just annoying at this point where we have a clear direction on where to go next. Your last post that I think hally didn't see to respond to before running out of posts just doesn't make any sense. Radish was Hally's top suspect, I don't understand what you're missing there. He was the obvious target. And I think part of why they cleared me was also just how hard I went after radish, in addition to the mech clear stuff which really makes sense if you just think about it logically.

Chill with the tinfoil. We have this shit locked down. We're not using a fucking cop on a mech clear townie when we can use it on a poe target. WWH and Colin are priority POE. We start there. I don't really think it's Colin, and I've gone back and forth on whether WWH is TWTBAW or just a losing wolf. But if it's not in them, and not dizzy (or you but I believe your claim is legit), I really really think there is a wolf in iaafr/tim.


My personal order of likelihood is wwh > iaafr > tim > colin > dizzy



Also [mention]Benson[/mention] yes it is common for the wolf who is carrying kp to also be able to use a different ability. Sometimes hosts make them forgo their other ability when they're doing the kill but I think being able to do both is more common and more what I'd expect in this game.

[WerewolfHunter]

27

Sorry when the submit doesnt go through and makes me redo.

My current order was on proto but I'll move to dizzy for tomorrow.

i also do start to agree that proto has been genuine

[WerewolfHunter]

28

I would be honored to be misyeeted lol to help solve this game.

I really don't see Tim, Colin, or Iaafr. I think its dizzy then if not proto

[WerewolfHunter]

29

Although, I would be honored to be misyeeted to help solve the game is their a chance I could be cop checked?

One of my concerns is if tutu is protected then they might go for Benson instead when ideally we dont lose either

[Amy]

gonna target dizzy glgl

21/30

[Dyslexicon]

I will claim tomorrow. I can help, that’s all I can say now.

[Dyslexicon]

gonna target dizzy glgl

21/30

With what?

[Dyslexicon]

[mention]Hally[/mention] Is Tim out of PoE?

[Dyslexicon]

I think Proto seems town from what I’ve read and how I know them. So people who say me/Proto has a bad poe, cause I’m town. I know I haven’t done shit, but I’m still town and I think I can clear myself reasonably

[Timsup2nothin]

@Hally Is Tim out of PoE?

She's out of posts. I'm sort of fringe POE but I would guess people are waiting to see if I actually deliver the promised protective device to Tutuu at least before they get really wild about chopping me.

[Dyslexicon]

Yeah, I’m just out of the loop. I don’t know what’s going on. But I can still be of use. Yeet me next day if you must, but not before that.

[Dyslexicon]

Someone asked me if I protected Tutu, and I didn’t. I can’t protect.

[Benson]

Also @Benson yes it is common for the wolf who is carrying kp to also be able to use a different ability. Sometimes hosts make them forgo their other ability when they're doing the kill but I think being able to do both is more common and more what I'd expect in this game.

That's what I thought too. Which makes it less likely for what Hally claims to have happened to have actually happened. It's reasonable to expect MR to have an action if he's a wolf. Like if every villager has an action then all the wolves sure as heck do too. So he probably used that action because why not. If there exists a Town Redictor for some reason, then it makes the most sense to let them redirect the lesser action and not the actual kill itself. Because redirecting their kill is absurd with those stipulations that were described. And I understand this action has unlimited shots too? Anyways, why would it default to the kill, rather than say an investigative action?
I'm sorry but that role is stupid to give to the town for that reason - that the wolves can carry multiple actions. That's why I've only ever seen it given to the wolves.

Plus, we already fucking had a half doc, my 2 shot doc, plus the BPV. Why would the town have the capability to redirect their NK as well?

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE


----

On another note, why does WWH desperately want to die or get checked? The way they keep asking for that makes me uncomfortable. But whatever, I'm still TRing her.

[Amy]

gonna target dizzy glgl

21/30

With what?

your postcap's getting halved tomorrow

i have to alternate between granting and removing 30 posts and i don't really have any better targets

22/30

[Dyslexicon]

gonna target dizzy glgl

21/30

With what?

your postcap's getting halved tomorrow

i have to alternate between granting and removing 30 posts and i don't really have any better targets

22/30

Oh yeah, that probably won’t be a problem xD

[Benson]

29

Although, I would be honored to be misyeeted to help solve the game is their a chance I could be cop checked?

One of my concerns is if tutu is protected then they might go for Benson instead when ideally we dont lose either

I will gladly fucking die and be gone from this game. My role is basically through next round anyways (unless I lied ) so I'm probably not a priority to kill. Or maybe I am if my theories are solid or if they want to WIFOM. It's possible that I could be in misyeet contention depending on how things go as well.

[Amy]

honestly i'm at the point where unless there's shenanigans afoot the PoE is like

idk i have reasons to townread literally everyone except colin

maybe that means i'm bad but shrug

23/30

[Benson]

I'm sorry nutella. I like you a lot as a mafia player, but if you're town and shot MR, knowing it would be covered up, it wasn't a good play for the health of the town. From my pov, at least. I'm willing to eat crow on that if MR is a wolf anyways (which I still believe is a good chance), but that left SO much uncertainty in this town when we could've just quick chopped him instead and got our result. That meant more than the kill. We'd be in the same place but there would be no tinfoil (unless the wolves still had a way to clean the chop result too). So this is why I have a hard time reconciling why that role is given to the town and why you'd use it that way. I can imagine scenarios where it would work, but not here. Sorry.

I'll stop complaining about that now.

[nutella]

....there's no uncertainty

hally's thing mechanically flipped mr red


yeah, I didn't know that. so yeah you can argue I made a bad choice. but like I said I was treating him as a red flip, and I was right, so you're welcome

[nutella]

and I get why you're skeptical of hally's role but I already said and will reiterate that town redirectors are not a new concept to the site or to tsp

[Long Con]

I'm wary of Hally's claim. Maybe radishes is just a convenient patsy, and Hally knows they tried to kill me and went with it.

[Long Con]

But then again, the question of why they would choose me directly as a Kill is pertinent.

[Amy]

But then again, the question of why they would choose me directly as a Kill is pertinent.

this is... actually a good point.

24/30

[WerewolfHunter]

I'm wary of Hally's claim. Maybe radishes is just a convenient patsy, and Hally knows they tried to kill me and went with it.

Agreed.

30/30

See you all tomorrow

[Benson]

I'm wary of Hally's claim. Maybe radishes is just a convenient patsy, and Hally knows they tried to kill me and went with it.

Yeah.
I also don't subscribe to you all needing to be wolfing to together for part of this claim chain to be a plot.

I think you were certainly an unlikely kill. That does give me pause. It could be the thought you had an important role based on something you implied or maybe by how you were playing. It's possible. Or just the top of my head, say they thought you and Tim were masons or something and they wanted to shut that down. Idk.

[Benson]

Ok, that example isn't a great one. Leave me alone.

....there's no uncertainty

hally's thing mechanically flipped mr red


yeah, I didn't know that. so yeah you can argue I made a bad choice. but like I said I was treating him as a red flip, and I was right, so you're welcome

Mechanically is a strong word.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@tutuu

If you think I'm town, I think you need to check benson to clear up the claims. There are too many potential worlds and too many doctors imo.

If Nutella is real, where did mafia KP go in the night? Actually can mafia holster?

Benson claims they saved you. Sounds reasonable enough as consensus townread that you get shot after you ask for saves to go onto me.

But we now have it confirmed that Alison also saved Tim. Think it was Tim who got RNGed as the save. I don't see mafia putting KP on Tim really. Maybe they did.

Why do you check benson?

Its potential 2 for 1 because if Benson is mafia, Nutella is also mafia unless mafia out KP onto Tim.

But if mafia can redirect you, they will to avoid you checking Benson. My priority power is gone, I can't boost you to ensure your next check is clean from redirect or roleblock or similar. This isn't code. I am now just a vanilla town now.

MR may also have just been a night Vigi who shot LC and then Hallys claim is entirely a fabrication. Nobody is confirming Hally visited MR at all. Hally is acting like they are confirmed. I don't like it.

These tinfoils a won't stop from me btw until something gets actually confirmed (to the extent it can be in a closed game).

To clear things up, the claims in question went like this:
First nutella claims her janitor/vig shot and that it killed and cleaned MR. Then LC claimed his vest broke. Hally then steps in to say they redirected MR's action onto LC and thus redirected the MK.

On the surface it looks probably fine but Hally is not confirmed from that play. It could have been a brilliantly planned move to claim that in the moment. In the worlds where nutella is legit town, it's technically possible the MK was directed in LC in the first place (I cannot explain why yet) or the kill went onto tutuu or Tim and was saved. And then there's the world where nutella/hally are w/w and concocted a great scheme last night. Not saying these are THE worlds. But like, why should we just also assume the wolves are already buried and had night actions and claims that are ultimately inconsequential?

Another q: on this site, is one wolf usually designated to carry the kill? Or is it often a factional thing?
Lets say MR has a night action like a roleblock or something. Can he submit that action and carry the kill or would that never happen here? I'm not sure how you guys do things.

Really depends on the GM. Some will allow kills and roles to be done at same time, a couple don’t (for something reason I don’t super get). In an open claim game I would assume scum can do both or it’s potentially pretty outing.

I would also assume that KP has to be carried given that there’s likely a tracker/trackers and/or redirectors in the setup.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Also lol at Hally thinking I have another shot. Sadly I don’t get to keep blasting fools, why do you think I waited until d2 to shoot

[ColinIsCool]

I’m not going to be online at EON most likely so (assuming I survive) don’t expect me to be in the thread right away to reveal whatever info I gather.

[Benson]

Benson (my cat) is not doing well. Please send your thoughts and prayers as I prepare him for nirvana. (in addition to being a mafia player extraordinaire i happen to double as a trans-species shaman)

he's an old dude and this was expected for a while, but i need to give the guy some love and might not be around the thread as much as yesterday

this is my best pic of him

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

this a meme before anyone is legit concerned

[tutuu]

dude tf Benson i legit felt terrible about your cat, I was sittin here vibin, then I see you posting this and I lowkey wanna cry, and then the dude is like "lmao its a prank"

[Benson]

Sorry I actually lied about my role.

I'm the 2 shot janitor cop. I can peek players but the results return with ???? because they get cleaned.
You're probably wondering why that would be a town role. Me too.
Last night I peeked Hally. No result because it was cleaned.

[Amy]

Sorry I actually lied about my role.

I'm the janitor postcap increaser. I can grant players 30 extra posts, but I can't read what they say beacuse they're cleaned.
You're probably wondering why that would be a town role. Me too.
Last night I gave iaafr 30 extra posts, but I have no idea how he used them, because they were cleaned.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

dude tf Benson i legit felt terrible about your cat, I was sittin here vibin, then I see you posting this and I lowkey wanna cry, and then the dude is like "lmao its a prank"

It’s a meme from an MU champs wildcard game last year, 112 made up a fictional dying cat named benson.

[Benson]

Lmao Amy


And what Nanooks referencing was why I went with this meme username last year. Otherwise I'd be beluga obviously.

[iaafr]

bros im tunneling nutella/hally hardcore proto/wwh r 2 cute and innocent they cant be the scum

[Amy]

i mean it could just be colin

[iaafr]

ya but idts

but ya maybe