Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Timsup2nothin]

You seem agitated. Maybe you should have a cup of tea.

I'm sitting at a keyboard man, this isn't life or death so I don't get really that excited. I'm having fun.

[Timsup2nothin]

My death doesn't "out a mafia" by the way...Wilgy is already out. This is just waste and once I'm flipped it will be impossible to go back and say "oh well at least it outs Wilgy" and I will troll you and Mac mercilessly if you try to do that.

Sure okay let's yeet Wilgy first and he flips town we turbo you? Deal?

That seems very smart. If Wilgy has some crazy town reason for lying about the track on JPIC I'll be wanting to get to DVC to ask him about it anyway.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You seem agitated. Maybe you should have a cup of tea.

I'm sitting at a keyboard man, this isn't life or death so I don't get really that excited. I'm having fun.

You should still consider a cup of tea, tea is very good.

[MacDougall]

I didn't speak out hard enough against AtE and the "yelling at people who accuse you" defense earlier in the game and now tim is incentivized to use it as much as possible to stay alive

Alison it is not your fault. It is the product of how I play as town. Sprityo and Nutella both did the same thing to me.

[Alison]

mac how high do you rate the possibility that tim is specifically 3p?

[MacDougall]

So basically the plan is we yeet Wilgy because Tim knows Wilgy is lying and going to flip mafia, and then we yeet Tim because he's outed third party.

[MacDougall]

mac how high do you rate the possibility that tim is specifically 3p?

Lol at this very second I rate it tremendously high.

[Timsup2nothin]

I didn't speak out hard enough against AtE and the "yelling at people who accuse you" defense earlier in the game and now tim is incentivized to use it as much as possible to stay alive

Pointing out the absurdity of your intentions isn't 'appealing' to your emotions, it's trolling. The way you just dig in your heels when you are caught being outright wrong is hilarious.

Wilgy lied. There is no realistic alternative to that fact. All I've done is stridently make that fact the main point here. You cannot effectively refute that fact. You know that fact really calls for chopping Wilgy. But you are so upset that you want to make a (not really since we are so far ahead) game throwing move and chop me anyway. That's okay, I always piss off town cores when I'm right and they are wrong. On many levels that's what I play the game for.

[Timsup2nothin]

So basically the plan is we yeet Wilgy because Tim knows Wilgy is lying and going to flip mafia, and then we yeet Tim because he's outed third party.

Well, I'm not 3P either but at least you are making sense here. Chop the outed wolf, and since there's really no evidence that I am NOT the 3P, start shooting at random. I don't have any better way to suggest hunting for the 3P.

[MacDougall]

So basically the plan is we yeet Wilgy because Tim knows Wilgy is lying and going to flip mafia, and then we yeet Tim because he's outed third party.

Well, I'm not 3P either but at least you are making sense here. Chop the outed wolf, and since there's really no evidence that I am NOT the 3P, start shooting at random. I don't have any better way to suggest hunting for the 3P.

I think it's pretty evident that you are the 3p based on how much you give a shit about your survival.

[Timsup2nothin]

You seem agitated. Maybe you should have a cup of tea.

I'm sitting at a keyboard man, this isn't life or death so I don't get really that excited. I'm having fun.

You should still consider a cup of tea, tea is very good.

I'm actually drinking a 7up and lemonade mixture.

[Alison]

mac how high do you rate the possibility that tim is specifically 3p?

Lol at this very second I rate it tremendously high.

what do you think of the possibility that tim has a massive bomb waiting to blow up on night 3 as a 3P (soup genocide or whatever) and is this desperate to exe wilgy because he just needs 1 more night to survive to win the game?

I'm thinking pretty hard about this and I don't think "kill wilgy kill wilgy kill wilgy" is actually a winning line for tim if he is mafia. I think the way mafia tim wins if he convinces us the thunderdome is false and it's actually V/V somehow, because if he's mafia and he just gets wilgy misexed all that happens is he dies tomorrow if scum team is even more in the shit. as you pointed out, he also pushed for sprityo over jpic pretty hard day 2. his actions make sense if he is 3P though.

[MacDougall]

mac how high do you rate the possibility that tim is specifically 3p?

Lol at this very second I rate it tremendously high.

what do you think of the possibility that tim has a massive bomb waiting to blow up on night 3 as a 3P (soup genocide or whatever) and is this desperate to exe wilgy because he just needs 1 more night to survive to win the game?

I'm thinking pretty hard about this and I don't think "kill wilgy kill wilgy kill wilgy" is actually a winning line for tim if he is mafia. I think the way mafia tim wins if he convinces us the thunderdome is false and it's actually V/V somehow, because if he's mafia and he just gets wilgy misexed all that happens is he dies tomorrow if scum team is even more in the shit. as you pointed out, he also pushed for sprityo over jpic pretty hard day 2. his actions make sense if he is 3P though.

I agree.

Wilgy can still be town too. Dyslexicon can be lying. Hell maybe Tutuu is mafia herself. She has been going on and on and on about how dudded the mafia have been with the roles.

[Alison]

I didn't speak out hard enough against AtE and the "yelling at people who accuse you" defense earlier in the game and now tim is incentivized to use it as much as possible to stay alive

Pointing out the absurdity of your intentions isn't 'appealing' to your emotions, it's trolling. The way you just dig in your heels when you are caught being outright wrong is hilarious.

Wilgy lied. There is no realistic alternative to that fact. All I've done is stridently make that fact the main point here. You cannot effectively refute that fact. You know that fact really calls for chopping Wilgy. But you are so upset that you want to make a (not really since we are so far ahead) game throwing move and chop me anyway. That's okay, I always piss off town cores when I'm right and they are wrong. On many levels that's what I play the game for.

all I want to hear is one point, and one point only. i don't want to hear anything else.

you argue that wilgy lied. then, you argue that i should exe wilgy because he lied.

I also think you lied. under your logic, why not exe you too?

[Timsup2nothin]

So basically the plan is we yeet Wilgy because Tim knows Wilgy is lying and going to flip mafia, and then we yeet Tim because he's outed third party.

Well, I'm not 3P either but at least you are making sense here. Chop the outed wolf, and since there's really no evidence that I am NOT the 3P, start shooting at random. I don't have any better way to suggest hunting for the 3P.

I think it's pretty evident that you are the 3p based on how much you give a shit about your survival.

I already told you I just want outted wolf chopped rather than a chop wasted on me. I woke up expecting to check in, see that the chop on the outted wolf was proceeding fine, and say "I'm gonna get some work done, see y'all at EoD." Apparently greater adult supervision was required to get the chop of the outted wolf back on track. But it needed to be done and I really don't have all day, so here we are.

[Timsup2nothin]

I didn't speak out hard enough against AtE and the "yelling at people who accuse you" defense earlier in the game and now tim is incentivized to use it as much as possible to stay alive

Pointing out the absurdity of your intentions isn't 'appealing' to your emotions, it's trolling. The way you just dig in your heels when you are caught being outright wrong is hilarious.

Wilgy lied. There is no realistic alternative to that fact. All I've done is stridently make that fact the main point here. You cannot effectively refute that fact. You know that fact really calls for chopping Wilgy. But you are so upset that you want to make a (not really since we are so far ahead) game throwing move and chop me anyway. That's okay, I always piss off town cores when I'm right and they are wrong. On many levels that's what I play the game for.

all I want to hear is one point, and one point only. i don't want to hear anything else.

you argue that wilgy lied. then, you argue that i should exe wilgy because he lied.

I also think you lied. under your logic, why not exe you too?

LOL..because IDGAF what you think. Wilgy DEMONSTRABLY lied. The only way he wasn't outright caught lying was if the vig shot cancelled JPICs night action which is why I asked the host...because I personally hate being wrong. Once Sloonei clarified that the only way Wilgy could be telling the truth was off the table...you decided to chop me instead. And since you are the leader you probably can. So I will be able to mock you for it. I'm just giving you a foreshadowing.

[dyachei]

so many egos at play here

[Alison]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

[Timsup2nothin]

so many egos at play here

Mine's bigger.

[Alison]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

Like FMPOV, okay, let's say I buy this stuff about Wilgy being outed scum. You're outed scum too because you lied about Ted. So I exe the outed scum with the higher equity for being 3P with a bomb to drop on the town at night first.

It's a simple decision for me. You can berate me and tell me I am making this decision because of my ego, but that simply isn't true. I'm making this decision because I think it's the best decision for town, that's all.

[dyachei]

so many egos at play here

Mine's bigger.

you all have the biggest penis, ok? no one cares

do we think 1 or 2 wolves?

if 2 who else besides wilgy or tim?

I feel like we should be thinking about that

[Alison]

so many egos at play here

I think playing egoistically is generally playing suboptimally and try to make decisions that are fuelled by calculation rather than ego. I think I've done so here. I can't speak for any of the others.

[dyachei]

was mostly talking about tim and mac, alison

[Timsup2nothin]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

There is no defense to that aspect, and if you want to leave the outted wolf and start randomly popping for 3P more power to you.

But consider that there is no evidence that you aren't the 3P either. Or Mac. Or Oddmerta who is my personal favorite based on the way he has played his way into "towny enough for the towncore but certainly not solvy enough to risk an NK" territory. You wanna start popping random caps trying to hit 3P, cool, so long as you admitthat's your priority here.

[Alison]

so many egos at play here

Mine's bigger.

you all have the biggest penis, ok? no one cares

do we think 1 or 2 wolves?

if 2 who else besides wilgy or tim?

I feel like we should be thinking about that

Probably 2 wolves. Wolves have not unveiled anything particularly stupendous in terms of their role power, and town has quite a bit of power to it, so I will err on the side of assuming there's a larger wolf team.

I'm not really sure who else besides Wilgy or Tim, but I suspect they're hiding in the POE at the moment, since everyone else has either really compelling thread evidence or blatant mech info townclearing them.

[Timsup2nothin]

so many egos at play here

Mine's bigger.

you all have the biggest penis, ok? no one cares

do we think 1 or 2 wolves?

if 2 who else besides wilgy or tim?

I feel like we should be thinking about that

We actually know there are two wolves, unless I lied.

[dyachei]

wait, how did you get that info tim?

[Alison]

wait, how did you get that info tim?

His claimed role scales based on the % of civillians in the game. Based on the ability he received, civillians must be 80% or above.

[Alison]

wait, how did you get that info tim?

His claimed role scales based on the % of civillians in the game. Based on the ability he received, civillians must be 80% or above.

But they were 79% or below yesterday, which means that there can't be 1 wolf. So 2 wolves and a Rogue is what fits the numbers.

[dyachei]

so he just did the math?

[dyachei]

ok cool I must have missed that earlier

[Timsup2nothin]

so many egos at play here

I think playing egoistically is generally playing suboptimally and try to make decisions that are fuelled by calculation rather than ego. I think I've done so here. I can't speak for any of the others.

Or by speculation rather than fact.

The speculation was "well, Tim might be a lying wolf". The FACT is that Wilgy is caught outright in a lie.

Now the speculation is "Tim might be 3P". The FACT is still that Wolgy is caught outright in a lie.

If you are "calculating" that it is a good time to start acting on speculations rather than facts, knock yourself out. But acknowledge what you are doing. Don't lie to yourself.

[MacDougall]

so many egos at play here

I'm gonna take this as a point of order so I can make a PSA lol.

I think I am good at mafia but the posturing is one part trolling, one part to generate laughs and one part because it's a productive way to play mafia. People think that my ego is this big fragile egg around me but the reality is that I get results by playing this way. People think that I get all hurt from trolling but I really never do. Often I get a little bit riled up initially but I get over it in about 30 seconds because my brain just immediately resolves to react whatever way is required for the gamestate at the time and "be a butthurt baby" is literally never the correct answer. Sometimes I miss the subtlety in the trolling and respond with a direct and forceful answer but it's not because I'm being a butthurt baby it's because I have put my brain in gamesolve mode and not "social chameleon" mode. Worse still is people think that I give a shit about being wrong which is laughable. When you take risks and force the game the way I do being brutally and clearly wrong comes with the territory. Because of that I have no problem being wrong, nor do I have a problem over-exaggerating how strong my reads are, nor do I have a problem completely reevaluating, nor do I have a problem giving credit to my fellow players or opponents when it's due.

I am currently working on getting better at identifying when people are trolling so that I stop responding to them seriously but I feel this needs said because I've noticed in this game and many others I've played recently that other players, particularly scum players, make a habit of constantly attacking my credibility and tbh I think it gives people unfamiliar with me a negative impression of who I am as a person and begun to characterise me negatively.

[Alison]

so many egos at play here

I think playing egoistically is generally playing suboptimally and try to make decisions that are fuelled by calculation rather than ego. I think I've done so here. I can't speak for any of the others.

Or by speculation rather than fact.

The speculation was "well, Tim might be a lying wolf". The FACT is that Wilgy is caught outright in a lie.

Now the speculation is "Tim might be 3P". The FACT is still that Wolgy is caught outright in a lie.

If you are "calculating" that it is a good time to start acting on speculations rather than facts, knock yourself out. But acknowledge what you are doing. Don't lie to yourself.

to be clear, I believe that you have been caught outright in a lie

[Timsup2nothin]

wait, how did you get that info tim?

His claimed role scales based on the % of civillians in the game. Based on the ability he received, civillians must be 80% or above.

But they were 79% or below yesterday, which means that there can't be 1 wolf. So 2 wolves and a Rogue is what fits the numbers.

This is correct. Maybe it would be wise to flip me so you can look at my role yourself and verify how many wolves you are looking for, rather than flip Wolgy.

[MacDougall]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

Like FMPOV, okay, let's say I buy this stuff about Wilgy being outed scum. You're outed scum too because you lied about Ted. So I exe the outed scum with the higher equity for being 3P with a bomb to drop on the town at night first.

It's a simple decision for me. You can berate me and tell me I am making this decision because of my ego, but that simply isn't true. I'm making this decision because I think it's the best decision for town, that's all.

From my perspective the notion that you are making this decision because of your ergo is preposterous Alison. You were fighting with me about Wilgy being scummier last night and reevaluated constantly in this game. So have I. Neither of us can be accused of any kind of ego driven agenda here tbh it's just Tim flailing.

Tim if this is actually how you treat locktowns when you are town then consider reevaluating your strategies.

[Timsup2nothin]

so many egos at play here

I think playing egoistically is generally playing suboptimally and try to make decisions that are fuelled by calculation rather than ego. I think I've done so here. I can't speak for any of the others.

Or by speculation rather than fact.

The speculation was "well, Tim might be a lying wolf". The FACT is that Wilgy is caught outright in a lie.

Now the speculation is "Tim might be 3P". The FACT is still that Wolgy is caught outright in a lie.

If you are "calculating" that it is a good time to start acting on speculations rather than facts, knock yourself out. But acknowledge what you are doing. Don't lie to yourself.

to be clear, I believe that you have been caught outright in a lie

You mean the tracker role blocker thing that you are assuming works a certain way and I already asked Sloonei about how it works?

[Timsup2nothin]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

Like FMPOV, okay, let's say I buy this stuff about Wilgy being outed scum. You're outed scum too because you lied about Ted. So I exe the outed scum with the higher equity for being 3P with a bomb to drop on the town at night first.

It's a simple decision for me. You can berate me and tell me I am making this decision because of my ego, but that simply isn't true. I'm making this decision because I think it's the best decision for town, that's all.

From my perspective the notion that you are making this decision because of your ergo is preposterous Alison. You were fighting with me about Wilgy being scummier last night and reevaluated constantly in this game. So have I. Neither of us can be accused of any kind of ego driven agenda here tbh it's just Tim flailing.

Tim if this is actually how you treat locktowns when you are town then consider reevaluating your strategies.

Ah but how sweet it will be when the facts come out. You are trying to chop the guy who caught Wilgy in a lie for you. I have suggested some unflattering motives for why you are doing that. At some point it becomes obvious that in fact that is what you did. And then you will say "well, Tim's just a bad player and made us do it." But will that really satisfy?

[Timsup2nothin]

BTW, I hope everyone is having fun, because I'm having a blast here. I do plan to mock you unmercifully in DVC, but then we're all friends and on to the next game as far as I'm concerned.

[Alison]

when a townie is this angry and upset that they are being wrongfully tunneled, and convinced that they will receive sweet vindication in the dead chat where they get to mock all the people who were wrong about them, their usual response is to almost beg for death, because it gives them the vindication they crave; it makes their fantasies about everyone else weeping for ever suspecting them and apologizing tearfully to them come true.

this is doubly true if that death confirms the identity of a wolf.

I'm not seeing any "please kill me now" attitude from tim. He says it with his lips that he wants to die and mock us in DVC, but he clearly wants to be let off the hook for today.

[Timsup2nothin]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

Like FMPOV, okay, let's say I buy this stuff about Wilgy being outed scum. You're outed scum too because you lied about Ted. So I exe the outed scum with the higher equity for being 3P with a bomb to drop on the town at night first.

It's a simple decision for me. You can berate me and tell me I am making this decision because of my ego, but that simply isn't true. I'm making this decision because I think it's the best decision for town, that's all.

From my perspective the notion that you are making this decision because of your ergo is preposterous Alison. You were fighting with me about Wilgy being scummier last night and reevaluated constantly in this game. So have I. Neither of us can be accused of any kind of ego driven agenda here tbh it's just Tim flailing.

Tim if this is actually how you treat locktowns when you are town then consider reevaluating your strategies.

Telling you that you are wrong when you are seems a good strat, even if you are mech locked as town by the host himself.

[Alison]

also can we not have any historical revisionism about the wilgy lie thing

you did not "catch wilgy in a lie"

he claimed it first thing in the day, and then we asked tutuu if she was blocked and she said no, and then we were all like "uh, that's weird".

[Timsup2nothin]

when a townie is this angry and upset that they are being wrongfully tunneled, and convinced that they will receive sweet vindication in the dead chat where they get to mock all the people who were wrong about them, their usual response is to almost beg for death, because it gives them the vindication they crave; it makes their fantasies about everyone else weeping for ever suspecting them and apologizing tearfully to them come true.

this is doubly true if that death confirms the identity of a wolf.

I'm not seeing any "please kill me now" attitude from tim. He says it with his lips that he wants to die and mock us in DVC, but he clearly wants to be let off the hook for today.

Why would I want to rush? The facts will out. I'm not a treestump.

But letting you waste a chop when there is an outed wolf is against my win condition and I NEVER throw.

[Timsup2nothin]

also can we not have any historical revisionism about the wilgy lie thing

you did not "catch wilgy in a lie"

he claimed it first thing in the day, and then we asked tutuu if she was blocked and she said no, and then we were all like "uh, that's weird".

Sure. Oh, wait, I doubt anyone reading would say that Wilgy was on the chair before I put him there.

[Alison]

#5417 - Wilgy says that JPIC targeted tutuu
two irrelevant posts
#5420 - tutuu says "i am not post capped"
five irrelevant posts
#5426 - Wilgy quotes tutuu and responds "That's good. He tried to cap you at least."
#5427 - Alison says "I don't believe wilgy's claim" and suggests that we powerexe Wilgy

Some discussion about the legitimacy of Wilgy's claim ensues. You were there and actively making posts, but you didn't comment on Wilgy's claim or the discrepancy between Wilgy's claim and the fact that tutuu was not postcapped at all.

So no, you did not "catch Wilgy in a lie", we all saw the discrepancy immediately and were trying to decide what to do about it.

[MacDougall]

I have give you about 10 chances to explain why your own actions are lesser than Wilgy's but all you seem to want to do is harp on the same line about Wilgy being outed scum. I am going to exe you to guard against the possibility of you being 3P since I have heard no defense from you to that respect.

Like FMPOV, okay, let's say I buy this stuff about Wilgy being outed scum. You're outed scum too because you lied about Ted. So I exe the outed scum with the higher equity for being 3P with a bomb to drop on the town at night first.

It's a simple decision for me. You can berate me and tell me I am making this decision because of my ego, but that simply isn't true. I'm making this decision because I think it's the best decision for town, that's all.

From my perspective the notion that you are making this decision because of your ergo is preposterous Alison. You were fighting with me about Wilgy being scummier last night and reevaluated constantly in this game. So have I. Neither of us can be accused of any kind of ego driven agenda here tbh it's just Tim flailing.

Tim if this is actually how you treat locktowns when you are town then consider reevaluating your strategies.

Ah but how sweet it will be when the facts come out. You are trying to chop the guy who caught Wilgy in a lie for you. I have suggested some unflattering motives for why you are doing that. At some point it becomes obvious that in fact that is what you did. And then you will say "well, Tim's just a bad player and made us do it." But will that really satisfy?

So be clear, what are you suggesting that my unflattering motive for voting you is exactly? Like just spit it out succinctly so everyone can read it.

[Timsup2nothin]

[mention]Oddmerta[/mention]

Add to my legacy that I think voting me over Wilgy is just plain silly. You have an excuse of sorts because you have been tunneling right along off your day zero nonsense read so while silly it's at least consistent. Lots of people are gonna try to defend their silliness with "I only did what Alison said." Make the point that while that excuses the silliness it is laziness.

[juliets]

also can we not have any historical revisionism about the wilgy lie thing

you did not "catch wilgy in a lie"

he claimed it first thing in the day, and then we asked tutuu if she was blocked and she said no, and then we were all like "uh, that's weird".

Sure. Oh, wait, I doubt anyone reading would say that Wilgy was on the chair before I put him there.

But Tim you're wrong. Wilgy had a ton of votes that over time shifted to you. You just missed that part. The question for me remains where to end up but I'm not parsing through it tonight while I'm tired.

[MacDougall]

was mostly talking about tim and mac, alison

Yeah see this is actually what I mean. I get into these battles with people and people read my drunk "I'm the entire town" crap and they assume I'm this big ego driven asshole when the reality is that I am entirely not that. The amount of times I'm just sitting there playing mafia while someone big bad wolves my house and I get co-accused of whatever it is their doing is really frustrating lol.

[staypositivefriend]

i prescribe to the rule of thumb that not everyone who ATEs is mafia, but that all mafia ATE

tim being performatively angry & outraged about being killed while simultaneously making comments about how he's excited to die so that he can rub it in our faces does nothing but make me think he's scum/3p that's relying on overly emotional language in a last-ditch effort to get people to townread him. if he wants to make the logical case for why he's town, then i'll listen, but all he's doing right now is making me want to dig in my heels and stop reading his posts. i do not care about emotional appeals or ego-battles