Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[MacDougall]

we have to run through them in order to actually confirm me

Or we can just cop check you via killing your ass.

[MacDougall]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] who is your mafia POE?

[Alison]

All cops on me, all trackers on me

Also, everyone remember

There is one lie detector and one tracker on you.

yeah but you don't know if they're town tho

it doesn't matter at all.

if, for example, poison chan tells us that you're town and telling the truth, then you're just town. either she's scum in which case you aren't because there's only one mafia left, or she's town and telling the truth about her check.

the only scenario in which PC's check on you can be fake is if you're mafia and PC is 3P who townsided like crazy and is also skilled enough to be extremely townie on play despite having a history of always being executed D1 because they're super obvious mafia and is now betraying the town by faking a green check on you...

so basically the only way that falls apart is in some super contrived and unlikely scenario that I'm not going to bother playing around.

[tedxtr]

Lol Alison I was being sarcastic

It is my way of coping with the fact that I'm hard cleared since D2 and you guys decide to put every town investigative on me

[Dyslexicon]

basically there's a lot of assumptions that would have to happen in the "tim got roleblocked" scenario and while I concede it's theoretically possible it always requires a lot of stuff to go haywire or act in odd ways.

and this is why you need to see that people are going to have to suspect you no matter what @Dyslexicon, there is no use complaining about how poor our logic is when you can't refute it, and going "I'm townie on play" when you've been slanking all game and "why would I make up such a stupid lie as mafia" when it seems obvious to me that for this gamestate to happen someone has to have made up a stupid lie (note: samu got caught because he made up a stupid lie) are just not good enough defenses to stop us from suspecting you when the POE is squeezes as tiny as it is.

also I don't know why you're so unhappy about being scumread given that you've self-admittedly not done much over the course of the game and there's a 50% chance we exe ted instead depending on night results anyway

1. This has nothing to do about me slanking this game. Using "you haven't done anything" against me is a non argument, and pure smearing. I've done what I can. I've tried to cooperate all I can. I used a track and tracked a roleblocker to Tutu.

2. I have refuted your "logic" up and down as far as I'm concerned. If you want to claim that it takes a lot of assumptions to say that Tim was roleblocked when I know for a fact that something happened to his block then right back at you times a hundred for your assumptions about me being mafia here. You have have to assume that 1) I'm an idiot that chose to lie for no reason. This IS a strong defence, and you shouldn't pretend it's not. 2) I chose to track Samu to Tutu and out the result because I hate my teammates. Notice also how hedgy Samu was about being clear about that result. 3) I'm an idiot who faked a role that gets verifiable results.

3. Why I care is if PoE is "You're about 50 % to be scum" then I know you're all about 50 % to be wrong about your PoE. I still hope you're not.

It's cool if it's Ted, I tend to think it's not. Sue me. Maybe it is. I trust Mac and Tutu to be absolute town, and I trust Juliets to be town. I don't know why SPF is town, but sure why not. You're probably town just due to the fact that faking cop is long term terrible. I have my doubts only because the claim just doesn't fit well to me. Whatever. Wilgy is town by your check. It might be Oddmerta tbh. Dya at least has a track. Mafia tracker, meh. I don't remember anyone else. LC. I don't know anything about him, I think maybe you checked him as well as Nanook.

[Alison]

Lol Alison I was being sarcastic

It is my way of coping with the fact that I'm hard cleared since D2 and you guys decide to put every town investigative on me

you are not hard cleared since D2. you think you are hard cleared, but you aren't. you are about to be hard cleared if PC confirms you are telling the truth about your song.

I have no idea why you're making such a big fuss about this. We have a huge numerical advantage and a very small POE. If I was you I'd be looking forward to being unassailably green checked and watching the mafia get slowly but surely boxed in.

[tedxtr]

Because you're putting all our investigatives on me when I have cleared myself instead of checking people that can't claim anything and can never be truly confirmed.

what's the point of Dizzy tracking me when I'm already checked by poison

[tedxtr]

It is hard clearing and you choose to ignore it.

You were never able to come up with holes in the reasoning, the only hole was that I rolecopped Nanook

oh look at what Samu flipped

[Alison]

basically there's a lot of assumptions that would have to happen in the "tim got roleblocked" scenario and while I concede it's theoretically possible it always requires a lot of stuff to go haywire or act in odd ways.

and this is why you need to see that people are going to have to suspect you no matter what @Dyslexicon, there is no use complaining about how poor our logic is when you can't refute it, and going "I'm townie on play" when you've been slanking all game and "why would I make up such a stupid lie as mafia" when it seems obvious to me that for this gamestate to happen someone has to have made up a stupid lie (note: samu got caught because he made up a stupid lie) are just not good enough defenses to stop us from suspecting you when the POE is squeezes as tiny as it is.

also I don't know why you're so unhappy about being scumread given that you've self-admittedly not done much over the course of the game and there's a 50% chance we exe ted instead depending on night results anyway

1. This has nothing to do about me slanking this game. Using "you haven't done anything" against me is a non argument, and pure smearing. I've done what I can. I've tried to cooperate all I can. I used a track and tracked a roleblocker to Tutu.

2. I have refuted your "logic" up and down as far as I'm concerned. If you want to claim that it takes a lot of assumptions to say that Tim was roleblocked when I know for a fact that something happened to his block then right back at you times a hundred for your assumptions about me being mafia here. You have have to assume that 1) I'm an idiot that chose to lie for no reason. This IS a strong defence, and you shouldn't pretend it's not. 2) I chose to track Samu to Tutu and out the result because I hate my teammates. Notice also how hedgy Samu was about being clear about that result. 3) I'm an idiot who faked a role that gets verifiable results.

3. Why I care is if PoE is "You're about 50 % to be scum" then I know you're all about 50 % to be wrong about your PoE. I still hope you're not.

It's cool if it's Ted, I tend to think it's not. Sue me. Maybe it is. I trust Mac and Tutu to be absolute town, and I trust Juliets to be town. I don't know why SPF is town, but sure why not. You're probably town just due to the fact that faking cop is long term terrible. I have my doubts only because the claim just doesn't fit well to me. Whatever. Wilgy is town by your check. It might be Oddmerta tbh. Dya at least has a track. Mafia tracker, meh. I don't remember anyone else. LC. I don't know anything about him, I think maybe you checked him as well as Nanook.

no, dizzy, you know that something happened to his block. the rest of us don't. we don't share the same information as you, so there's no point arguing with me and telling me that I'm a shit player because I don't see how you're obvious town.

think about it from my point of view. I do not know that something happened to Tim's block. For all I know the block went through and the people who said it didn't are lying. The only person who knows for a certainty if you are lying is you. Which means that yes, you have strong reason to believe you're town, no shit, but the rest of us don't have that knowledge. So don't expect us to act on information we don't have. If you want to say "I know you are wrong" yeah okay fine. Obviously anyone suspected of being scum is going to tell the accuser that they are wrong. But don't start making a fuss about why it was wrong to suspect you in the first place because the reasons you have for not suspecting you rely on information that only you have.

[Dyslexicon]

required in order to arrive at "tim was roleblocked and never targeted ted on n1".

You're doing it the wrong order for me. I KNOW that Tim didn't get to Ted that night. I don't need to arrive to that conclusion since I'm already there. Do you get that?

You're trying to argue that "I should have" some sort of mindframe that I necessarily can't have.

Also:

Responding to a private question:
A roleblocker can be blocked by another roleblocker.

I interpret this as a roleblock would just block another roleblock of the latter was aimed at someone else.

[Alison]

you have have to assume that 1) I'm an idiot that chose to lie for no reason. This IS a strong defence, and you shouldn't pretend it's not. 2) I chose to track Samu to Tutu and out the result because I hate my teammates. Notice also how hedgy Samu was about being clear about that result. 3) I'm an idiot who faked a role that gets verifiable results.

again, keeping it real with you. 1) is not a strong defense. samu chose to lie for no reason. he could have easily said "I can't claim anything about my role just like spf/mac/odd, sorry". instead he chose to fake a voyeur action that was easily verifiable, and we verified it and it didn't check out, so we executed him and he flipped scum. I repeat, we have a flipped scum who lied for no reason. So "I wouldn't lie for no reason" isn't something that proves you aren't scum. It strongly suggests you aren't, and that's why I believe that you are the town between you and ted, but if everyone else is mech cleared then we have assume that you lying is a thing that could happen.

I already gave you credit for 2), another reason why I think you're the town over ted. not sure why you're hung up on this.

my response to 3) is the same as my response to 1).

I have no idea why you're so pissed off about being in the POE when you aren't even at the bottom of the POE (I explicitly said I suspect ted over you multiple times) and we can afford quite a few misexes before we're in real trouble.

[Alison]

required in order to arrive at "tim was roleblocked and never targeted ted on n1".

You're doing it the wrong order for me. I KNOW that Tim didn't get to Ted that night. I don't need to arrive to that conclusion since I'm already there. Do you get that?

You're trying to argue that "I should have" some sort of mindframe that I necessarily can't have.

Also:

Responding to a private question:
A roleblocker can be blocked by another roleblocker.

I interpret this as a roleblock would just block another roleblock of the latter was aimed at someone else.

yeah, so if you're town here, you know we're wrong. but the same can be said for anyone with a green role PM who ever got suspected of being scum.

The question is, how do we arrive at that conclusion? and if we don't, how can you possibly blame us for not assuming it's true?

[Dyslexicon]

no, dizzy, you know that something happened to his block. the rest of us don't. we don't share the same information as you, so there's no point arguing with me and telling me that I'm a shit player because I don't see how you're obvious town.

think about it from my point of view. I do not know that something happened to Tim's block. For all I know the block went through and the people who said it didn't are lying. The only person who knows for a certainty if you are lying is you. Which means that yes, you have strong reason to believe you're town, no shit, but the rest of us don't have that knowledge. So don't expect us to act on information we don't have. If you want to say "I know you are wrong" yeah okay fine. Obviously anyone suspected of being scum is going to tell the accuser that they are wrong. But don't start making a fuss about why it was wrong to suspect you in the first place because the reasons you have for not suspecting you rely on information that only you have.

I'm not saying you're a shit player. I'm saying it's obvious that I wouldn't lie about an easily verifiable thing. That is just a fact. I don't think that's very radical. I understand that nobody else knows my role for sure. If we all knew each other's roles, then mafia as a concept would't work. I'm not asking you to know, I'm asking you to deduce.

But if you don't want to do that, I can take the position of Tim 2.0 as he predicted. Sure.

This is not a "we only have your word for it problem" as you are posing it as. There's TONS of context here. The "somebody has to be lying" is the reason we've misyeeted in this game so far. I'm just reminding you. Don't say I didn't try.

[Alison]

step into my shoes dizzy. pretend you're me for a second. how would alison, with all the information she has, know for a fact that tim had his roleblock messed with?

[Alison]

no, dizzy, you know that something happened to his block. the rest of us don't. we don't share the same information as you, so there's no point arguing with me and telling me that I'm a shit player because I don't see how you're obvious town.

think about it from my point of view. I do not know that something happened to Tim's block. For all I know the block went through and the people who said it didn't are lying. The only person who knows for a certainty if you are lying is you. Which means that yes, you have strong reason to believe you're town, no shit, but the rest of us don't have that knowledge. So don't expect us to act on information we don't have. If you want to say "I know you are wrong" yeah okay fine. Obviously anyone suspected of being scum is going to tell the accuser that they are wrong. But don't start making a fuss about why it was wrong to suspect you in the first place because the reasons you have for not suspecting you rely on information that only you have.

I'm not saying you're a shit player. I'm saying it's obvious that I wouldn't lie about an easily verifiable thing. That is just a fact. I don't think that's very radical. I understand that nobody else knows my role for sure. If we all knew each other's roles, then mafia as a concept would't work. I'm not asking you to know, I'm asking you to deduce.

But if you don't want to do that, I can take the position of Tim 2.0 as he predicted. Sure.

This is not a "we only have your word for it problem" as you are posing it as. There's TONS of context here. The "somebody has to be lying" is the reason we've misyeeted in this game so far. I'm just reminding you. Don't say I didn't try.

the samu exe involved:

- scum lying about an easily verifiable thing
- us finding out and deducing that someone has to be lying and that someone was most likely him
- executing him based off that and him flipping scum

remind me again why that train of thought is so obviously wrong I should be chastised for following it again?

[MacDougall]

ISOing Samu just makes me more short his last partner is Ted tbh.

[MacDougall]

More sure lol

[tedxtr]

@tedxtr who is your mafia POE?

who cares, apart from maintaining momentum on nutella and calling out jpic I sucked this game

I'm gonna get green checked by 5 people, sort literally anyone else, my PoE does nothing for you

I had a hard time grasping this game and I'm not gonna out the last mafia right now lol

[MacDougall]

Because you're putting all our investigatives on me when I have cleared myself

We aren't and also you aren't.

[Dyslexicon]

It's not about just "lying" for no reason. It's about lying to be a role that gets verifiable results WITH a result that is in direct conflict with a town player. Hello.

Plus I fucking outed Samu.

These are premises. Now you can deduce. I'm not about blaming anyone for being wrong, but I am about telling you have it looks from my perspective. And then the rest of the game has to make a decision I guess.

We've probably won overall with the amount of abilities among us. So whatever.

*throws hands in the air* Why am I even giving this attention? =p

[tedxtr]

ISOing Samu just makes me more short his last partner is Ted tbh.

I'm getting green checked

[tedxtr]

Because you're putting all our investigatives on me when I have cleared myself

We aren't and also you aren't.

I am getting green checked tonight

[Alison]

ftr, I don't think samu is a bad player. he has experience playing on mafia sites. he was good enough to be hard townread by several good town players even while his team was falling apart around him. yet he lied about something easily verifiable. why? was it nerves? was it an elaborate way of conceding by trolling as much as possible before he gets found out? did the scum team figure that they'd go for the audacious play of just making bold role claims and hoping nobody notices they're lies?

I don't know, but I do know that an intelligent person has been caught in an easily verifiable lie that he has no reason to be making. So spare me the rhetoric about how I should never consider that possibility because it's just stupid to think someone would do that. I'm not even saying it's the most likely possibility, just that it's one possibility and we'll have to seriously consider it if every other option gets ruled out.

[MacDougall]

You have at most 2 people targeting you. One is locked the other can still do anything. Stop filling the thread with lies.

[Alison]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

[MacDougall]

Because you're putting all our investigatives on me when I have cleared myself

We aren't and also you aren't.

I am getting green checked tonight

Hopefully.

[Dyslexicon]

the samu exe involved:

- scum lying about an easily verifiable thing
- us finding out and deducing that someone has to be lying and that someone was most likely him
- executing him based off that and him flipping scum

remind me again why that train of thought is so obviously wrong I should be chastised for following it again?

I haven't read any of that. I'm not Samu. I'm not chastising you. I'm just telling you that you're wrong cause I know you are. You can listen to it or not.

Maybe it's just Ted and this is all useless anyway. Let's hope so

[tedxtr]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

At least we finally got to this part

[MacDougall]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

[Dyslexicon]

Holy shit I'll miss my deadline for arguing in a game we'll likely win anyway, baring 3p =p

[tedxtr]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

[MacDougall]

I couldn't care less if my reads are wrong at this point because mech is doing the work now.

[Dyslexicon]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

Ewwww go away. THE IRKS! THE IRKS!!!

[MacDougall]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

I tried but you refused to give reads on anyone at all.

[Dyslexicon]

You all know how annoying it is to get wrongly accused, so don't try it. =p
I'm reacting better than Tim did lol. (Love you, Tim <3)

[tedxtr]

Actually, yes, it is stupid that me and Dizzy have to be saying that we're both getting checked so you should solve the game with villa!us in your eyes until then and that all suspicion is futile.

We either are red peeked tomorrow or green peeked. If we're green peeked then you wasted 24 hours trying to prove a point.

Move on.

[Dyslexicon]

The iiiiirks! =p

[tedxtr]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

I tried but you refused to give reads on anyone at all.

I'm getting mechanically resolved, move to someone else

I'm just gonna say it until you get it tbh

[MacDougall]

Im gonna go with Ted is mafia and Dizzy is 3p that's achieved wincon already and is trying to survive to endgame. Or vice versa.

[Alison]

to be clear I'm not annoyed that you are saying "hey guys im town, you are wrong if you think im scum, heres all the evidence that proves me town" because I've done exactly that this game

I'm annoyed that you are making it sound like we're suspecting you baselessly or for no reason when that's not true

[MacDougall]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

I tried but you refused to give reads on anyone at all.

I'm getting mechanically resolved, move to someone else

I'm just gonna say it until you get it tbh

Get it? I've been saying it all along. I don't give a rats about any of this conversation.

[Alison]

Actually, yes, it is stupid that me and Dizzy have to be saying that we're both getting checked so you should solve the game with villa!us in your eyes until then and that all suspicion is futile.

We either are red peeked tomorrow or green peeked. If we're green peeked then you wasted 24 hours trying to prove a point.

Move on.

who's checking dizzy?

[tedxtr]

Im gonna go with Ted is mafia and Dizzy is 3p that's achieved wincon already and is trying to survive to endgame. Or vice versa.

ok you caught me I'll mention you post-game

We're getting mechanically resolved tonight and we're either red or green. Move to someone else.

[tedxtr]

Actually, yes, it is stupid that me and Dizzy have to be saying that we're both getting checked so you should solve the game with villa!us in your eyes until then and that all suspicion is futile.

We either are red peeked tomorrow or green peeked. If we're green peeked then you wasted 24 hours trying to prove a point.

Move on.

who's checking dizzy?

Wilgy's tracking Dizzy, no?

[MacDougall]

One thing that seems relatively clear at this point is that the 3p doesn't have kills so that points to survivor which also points to them townsiding which also points to idc about them anymore either.

[tedxtr]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

I tried but you refused to give reads on anyone at all.

I'm getting mechanically resolved, move to someone else

I'm just gonna say it until you get it tbh

Get it? I've been saying it all along. I don't give a rats about any of this conversation.

Ok, find the real last wolf then.

Solve the game with villa!us in your mind because we either get red peeked and it ends or we're both getting green peeked at which point you'd have to look for the last wolf.

Doing it now is optimal.

[MacDougall]

If we lose to a sole survivor townsiding 3p I'm gonna just not care.

[MacDougall]

arguing about ted seems stupid when we'll get solid data about his role in less than a day anyway

It seems more stupid to be doing what Ted and Dizzy are doing. Maybe they are just mafia and 3p having a last hurrah.

No it's not, we're both getting checked tonight. Talk about literally anyone else.

I tried but you refused to give reads on anyone at all.

I'm getting mechanically resolved, move to someone else

I'm just gonna say it until you get it tbh

Get it? I've been saying it all along. I don't give a rats about any of this conversation.

Ok, find the real last wolf then.

Solve the game with villa!us in your mind because we either get red peeked and it ends or we're both getting green peeked at which point you'd have to look for the last wolf.

Doing it now is optimal.

We have about 15 real world days and immense PR to do that.

I'll start when you do.

[Dyslexicon]

to be clear I'm not annoyed that you are saying "hey guys im town, you are wrong if you think im scum, heres all the evidence that proves me town" because I've done exactly that this game

I'm annoyed that you are making it sound like we're suspecting you baselessly or for no reason when that's not true

That's fine and understandable.

I get really irked being wrongfully accused sometimes. You know how much I argued in the laser game. Literally can't believe it. I think Mac is just annoying me on purpose now, and all this has no point if Wilgy will just track me tonight anyway and we'll also know Ted's alignment. Mafia is not a problem at this point. 3p might be.

[tedxtr]

I'm not solving this game because I sucked at it so I have the wrong world view and poor grasp on the game.

Happens.