Grasslands [Game Thread]

[Thunal33]

i'm admittedly feeling a little bit stressed because i most likely have to vote/out my final reads tonight (roughly about 12ish hours before the deadline), and i feel like i don't have the time to delve into as many players as i would like.

setting that aside, my top suspicions as of right now are sloonei/martin/alison, in that order, and i'm likely going to end up with a vote (or a ghost vote) on one of them

out of the three names i listed in that post, does anybody strongly object to any of them being voted?

I think Martin has really given towny takes all game. He's freely sharing his scum meta which is something I associate slightly more with town and I've been mindmelding with him quite a bit on Alison and others this game. He also shares the same view we do that something seems off and wolves aren't just in the D1 PoE.

[Alison]

Sloonei + Thunal compatibility is low. Not completely impossible, but low.

Hally has sort of fallen out of my suspect list today. A lot of my gripes with her turned out to have reasonable answers and she hasn't handled the JJJ/Alison interactions and Alison/Thunal interactions the way I expected she would if she was scum. I'm leaning towards more of a null or slight townlean on Hally now I think.

I don't know who's my third suspect. Probably LC by a slim margin since I have some reason to townread everyone else, but I'm not really feeling it on an LC exe. The only argument as to LC being scum is that he's widely suspected but nobody wants to go after him. But that happens in every game LC is in, and the one time I saw him scum, everyone went after him, so...

This kind of gets at why I asked then. If Hally is out, and you're not really feeling it on Long Con, and Sloonei and Thunal are not compatible -- then from a holistic game theory perspective you have one true suspect right now --> Sloonei OR Thunal. Does this concern you at all?

Why would it? Some scum are hiding from me. I'll get there on them. I've set my sights on Sloonei/Thunal - I think there's a very high chance at least one of them is scum, so that's who I'm voting in. I expect interaction analysis on the one who flips red to yield more suspects, and for me to get a better understanding about who the mafia is as the game goes on. I don't expect to have 2/3 or 3/3 nailed on Day 2 in a player list this strong, so this is not particularly concerning or alarming to me.

[Long Con]

I looked through nutella's posts, and was looking at how her opinions developed. I'm up to Wed morning and I want to take a break.

She pushed the idea that she was really sure that Hally and Sloonei are a difference check, which looks to me like setting up yeets based on town getting yeeted. @nutella why caqn't Hally and Sloonei be t-t? What is it about their interactions? I think it's because you thought they were both wolves, but then their interactions unaligned them for you.

Something that does bother me is that you really don't interact with Sloonei until almost 24 hours in, and that's after a great deal of suspicion you have directed toward him. I have been caught before as scum for a lack of interactions with my partner, and Sloonei, up to this point, is basically your only scumread (aside from a couple of jabs at Carotte). This is the first post I see that gives opinions of anyone else, and it's extremely tentative. For someone who prefers to put it all out there on Day 1, with 8 hours left you have a lot of talk and very few suspects. You have a Sloonei mega-focus, and a Carrote "sure".

I think SPF seems town. The more careful language there is deliberate.

I had to chew on this tidbit of self-awareness for a while

Can you talk about this a little?

Spoiler: show

fwiw, i kind of doubt that this is how jagged would react to his partner being pressured this early into the game. jagged sticking his neck out for a player that everyone scumreads would be such a blatant angle for jagged to take with his partner that it feels unlikely. but the fact that i dont particularly tr sloonei/jagged yet is genuinely concerning to me

this sounds almost identical to a post you made in finale lol. i hope you're right

Was SPF town in the finale? I don't know what this means to you.

that can't be right, im not vanilla. my pm said hazelnut town

I liked this post, quite witty.

[Long Con]

Crap, there's part of that post that I forgot to add the link on my clipboard: "This is the first post I see that gives opinions of anyone else..."

[Alison]

Okay, belated catchup time.

@Alison what happens to your present view of the game if Sloonei is town? If Thunal is town?

If Thunal is town I'd probably have to admit I'm barking up the wrong tree entirely and try to take a few steps back and re-evaluate my understanding of the gamestate entirely. If Sloonei is town then I'd just be back onto Thunal. The difference here, I think, is that a Sloonei green flip doesn't give me much info, but a Thunal green flip means I have to reconsider my thoughts on a lot of things.

Is there anything that would convince you I'm town except my town flip? What are your thoughts on LC?

Thoughts on LC posted a bit above. This is not going to be a satisfactory answer, but basically you'd have to start acting more townie lol. Obviously I'm not going to give you the exact details on what you're supposed to do because then you'd just copy it and it becomes totally meaningless.

[staypositivefriend]

i'm admittedly feeling a little bit stressed because i most likely have to vote/out my final reads tonight (roughly about 12ish hours before the deadline), and i feel like i don't have the time to delve into as many players as i would like.

setting that aside, my top suspicions as of right now are sloonei/martin/alison, in that order, and i'm likely going to end up with a vote (or a ghost vote) on one of them

out of the three names i listed in that post, does anybody strongly object to any of them being voted?

I would very much prefer that Alison is eliminated before me.

Sloonei I feel is probably town, but if you feel that's they're scum right now then I suppose I can't convince you since I don't know them personally as a player. (That and I only have 6 games of experience)

does alison defending you incredibly hard even when her life is on the line change your perception of her at all? how confident do u feel about her being mafia?

i feel you on sloonei. it just feels like there’s something missing here. in champs i felt his thoughts were so fluid but simultaneously like i could understand every single step of his thought process and how one thing led to the next. his solving had such a clarity to it that was impossible not to tr and which resonated with me deeply, and i can’t say that i’ve felt that here. i don’t know if i can say he’s scummy in a level 1 sense but it’s pretty clear to me that he’s not fully “in his zone” so to speak, and if i try to think of how he’d feel as mafia, i imagine it would be like that

can you talk more about martin? specifically, can you cite examples of scum reads he’s given that feel off or dishonest to you? martin has been on a consistent trend down for me in my reads but i don’t really have a reason other than that i feel his presence is lacking and like i have no idea what his reads are or where he’s trying to take the game. but idk if that’s just because he’s new-ish. but anyway, i’m curious to hear you expand on your concerns there

that is an excellent summation of my issues with sloonei in this game - i do not feel as though he is actively scumtelling, but i do feel that he is out of his element to the extent that it concerns me that he is mafia who is having trouble integrate themselves into the game. i felt the same way on d1 and ive been waiting to see if there would be a moment where i really felt like sloonei "integrated" himself and shone through, but that hasn't happened yet

as for martin, the biggest issue that i've taken with him is his initial "tinfoil" on tutuu. when martin saw that tutuu had a relatively inconsistent approach to alison, i felt like he pounced to make tutuu look bad instead of questioning & interrogating her like i would expect him to. martin's play has been very measured and analytical, and the way that he jumped to frame what is (imo) a personality tell from tutuu as some kind of scumtell came across as opportunistic to me, pairing that w/the fact that he hasn't done much with his read on tutuu since that point. i explained it a little more succinctly here:

i can't really articulate why, but martin's push on tutuu from the post i just quoted-#1014 sort of gives me bad vibes

it might be the contrast btwn martin's reasoning for townreading thunal and martin's reasoning for scumreading tutuu. i thought martin's reasoning for townreading thunal at the start of the game was thoughtful and contrasted against this idea of what he would expect mafia to be doing. but his scumread on tutuu actually feels the opposite - martin is describing why tutuu's reads are somewhat inconsistent and not explaining why that inconsistency makes tutuu mafia. it seems pretty clear from tutuu's playstyle that she would bounce around reads and change her mind as either alignment - and i dont love that martin jumped immediately to "tinfoiling" tutuu over this discrepancy instead of questioning her about it and figuring out if it was coming from a genuine place

additionally, i do think his suspicion of alison could be coming from a legitimate place - but the framing that he uses to push for the alison chop really rubs me the wrong way. for example, in this post:

I read through Alison's ISO, and I spent awhile thinking about it.

There are posts in there that I liked, but most of those have been early game. A lot of their posts though, I've been feeling neither too particularly towny or scummy.

However, I get the feeling that if Alison does have a playstyle or thought process very similar to me then if she's scum....all she's doing just making points and that's it.

Or something. I'm not entirely sure. I haven't read any of their scum games.

Either way, I wouldn't feel too comfortable going forward if it wasn't Alison that was executed next. I just need to know if they're town or mafia.

[VOTE: MartinGG99] aubergine (Because I'm not going to be the doc save lol, and even if town agreed with me getting it I would think you all are insane)

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine


I mean, think about it. If she's scum and her plan is to discredit (or scum-paint) as much people as possible (like Thunal, Sloonei, JJJ, etc at times) then she's done a decent or good job of it at times. Like trying to prevent some sort of town-core from forming.

And while I can completely understand if she's town, I think if she's scum it may be too dangerous to leave her alive beyond D2. As to whether she has spewed or anti-spewed if scum, I'm not sure but I think she would've made it difficult to know.

he frames the main reason for why we should chop alison to be to "find out" if alison is town or mafia - and not because alison is actually suspicious. i also am concerned by the fact that alison's strong defense of martin does not seem to be influencing martin's perception of alison, or making him doubt himself. i feel like he's both hedging on alison's alignment while pushing for her chop at the same time

none of this definitely makes martin mafia, but it's enough to make me concerned that he is not solving with a genuine mindset

[MartinGG99]

i apologize but i cannot understand this at all. could i trouble you to type out a list?

[mention]Hally[/mention]

I'll give you a more updated list, in a more proper or informative format. My thoughts were kinda all spread-out earlier but now I feel a fair bit more cohesive after reading some ISO's.

Towniest to Scummiest:

Thunal33
Tutuu
Staypositivefriend
JaggedJimmyJay
Sloonei
Hally
Long Con
Nanook
Alison

Green = Mostly Confident in this position.
Yellow = Unsure
Red = I've put not much effort into this read.

This is my tentative reads list for now. Might change in the future.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General frustration with the state of the game:

Almost everything is nebulous. I barely have strong town reads beyond tutuu and SPF. I might be ready to include Hally in that group. Otherwise I have infuriating "leans", the kinds of reads that I rail against in every philosophy of Mafia thread, and just about zero confidence in anything. nutella is a town lean. Martin and Thunal seem town but there's a case to be made against them. Sloonei is a billowing mass of fog hovering over my head. Nanook and Long Con are the silence between tracks on your favorite studio album. Alison seems suspicious but could easily be town anyway.

We've got to find a way to break out of this reads malaise. I am getting the vibe that others are experiencing something similar, so I say "we". I'm kind of trying to force the issue with stuff like the blind interactions, and it still doesn't feel like the game state is progressing. Maybe another flip will help. We'd better hope so, or this game is in trouble. I don't blame anyone for this, and I don't particularly know how we've ended up in this position. But it needs to change.

[Long Con]

Wow, I had to read the instructions on that one.

[Long Con]

General frustration with the state of the game:

Almost everything is nebulous. I barely have strong town reads beyond tutuu and SPF. I might be ready to include Hally in that group. Otherwise I have infuriating "leans", the kinds of reads that I rail against in every philosophy of Mafia thread, and just about zero confidence in anything. nutella is a town lean. Martin and Thunal seem town but there's a case to be made against them. Sloonei is a billowing mass of fog hovering over my head. Nanook and Long Con are the silence between tracks on your favorite studio album. Alison seems suspicious but could easily be town anyway.

We've got to find a way to break out of this reads malaise. I am getting the vibe that others are experiencing something similar, so I say "we". I'm kind of trying to force the issue with stuff like the blind interactions, and it still doesn't feel like the game state is progressing. Maybe another flip will help. We'd better hope so, or this game is in trouble. I don't blame anyone for this, and I don't particularly know how we've ended up in this position. But it needs to change.

Hey, I'm trying to give the game some time tonight.

[Alison]

@Alison evidently feels that I have not engaged with her in any meaningful way. I object, but she is right to point out that we've not had any extended exchanges. Direct interaction is always the best way to read people.
So, Alison, if there's anyone in this game that we are not talking about enough, who would it be? Why?

I'm leaving for work relatively soon so I won't be able to carry on a conversation for very long at present, but we can at least get the ball rolling.

I kinda feel we're talking about everyone enough in the sense that the people who are not talked about much (nutella, nanook, SPF) are all people I don't have much worries about. I certainly don't feel that there's scum lurking under the radar or anything - everyone's being put under some amount of scrutiny except for those 3, and I do townread them.

Do you feel you've made yourself obvious town to JJJ?

[staypositivefriend]

General frustration with the state of the game:

Almost everything is nebulous. I barely have strong town reads beyond tutuu and SPF. I might be ready to include Hally in that group. Otherwise I have infuriating "leans", the kinds of reads that I rail against in every philosophy of Mafia thread, and just about zero confidence in anything. nutella is a town lean. Martin and Thunal seem town but there's a case to be made against them. Sloonei is a billowing mass of fog hovering over my head. Nanook and Long Con are the silence between tracks on your favorite studio album. Alison seems suspicious but could easily be town anyway.

We've got to find a way to break out of this reads malaise. I am getting the vibe that others are experiencing something similar, so I say "we". I'm kind of trying to force the issue with stuff like the blind interactions, and it still doesn't feel like the game state is progressing. Maybe another flip will help. We'd better hope so, or this game is in trouble. I don't blame anyone for this, and I don't particularly know how we've ended up in this position. But it needs to change.

i'm dealing with the exact same frustration - my reads feel weirdly stagnant and even though the trustfall/distrustfall i did earlier helped me a little bit, i still don't get the sense that my gamesolving is making as much progress as i want it to

[Long Con]

General frustration with the state of the game:

Almost everything is nebulous. I barely have strong town reads beyond tutuu and SPF. I might be ready to include Hally in that group. Otherwise I have infuriating "leans", the kinds of reads that I rail against in every philosophy of Mafia thread, and just about zero confidence in anything. nutella is a town lean. Martin and Thunal seem town but there's a case to be made against them. Sloonei is a billowing mass of fog hovering over my head. Nanook and Long Con are the silence between tracks on your favorite studio album. Alison seems suspicious but could easily be town anyway.

We've got to find a way to break out of this reads malaise. I am getting the vibe that others are experiencing something similar, so I say "we". I'm kind of trying to force the issue with stuff like the blind interactions, and it still doesn't feel like the game state is progressing. Maybe another flip will help. We'd better hope so, or this game is in trouble. I don't blame anyone for this, and I don't particularly know how we've ended up in this position. But it needs to change.

For the record, I'm not participating in any of your GTH shenanigans.

[Alison]

not actually here but uh

what on earth happened in that treehouse

Did you look at the chat yet? I just linked it.

Dont tell me u DMd her rofl

No, I just wanted to try a weird trap and see if Hally had access to the treehouse from scumchat.

I did not link it, I wanted Hally to say something like "yeah I skimmed it" so that I could potentially catch them.

Oh was a joke lol soz

Ur like, a dry humor type of gal aint ya? Or how do u call it. Pan faced? Stone faced

Not really a joke either. I just thought I maybe had a 0.001% chance of catching scum!Hally in a small gambit.

I'm doing blind interactions. This bit inspired me to ask a general question to the game:

Are Thunal and Hally compatible as mafia teammates with the above posts in mind?

I don't think this interaction is super out of their scum range if they were buddies. They'd also feel more compelled to fake "non-partnery" interaction since this was after I came out with my suspicions on them being buddies together.

That said I'm no longer actively pushing a world where those two are scum together; I think it's plausible that Hally is town and being pocketed by Thunal here.

[MartinGG99]

he frames the main reason for why we should chop alison to be to "find out" if alison is town or mafia - and not because alison is actually suspicious. i also am concerned by the fact that alison's strong defense of martin does not seem to be influencing martin's perception of alison, or making him doubt himself. i feel like he's both hedging on alison's alignment while pushing for her chop at the same time

none of this definitely makes martin mafia, but it's enough to make me concerned that he is not solving with a genuine mindset

Well, I hope this game reveals to me either:

1. I act scummy
2. I think scummy
3. I'm bad at reads
4. I think + act scummy
5. All of the above

I'm honestly getting really tired of people swinging on, at separate parts of the game, "Oh I think this is a really towny post" to "this post makes me doubt Martin" (I can't recall you specifically doing that to me).

It just seems like no matter what I do for either alignment I always seem to end up on the rear end of people's PoE's or "Null".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General frustration with the state of the game:

Almost everything is nebulous. I barely have strong town reads beyond tutuu and SPF. I might be ready to include Hally in that group. Otherwise I have infuriating "leans", the kinds of reads that I rail against in every philosophy of Mafia thread, and just about zero confidence in anything. nutella is a town lean. Martin and Thunal seem town but there's a case to be made against them. Sloonei is a billowing mass of fog hovering over my head. Nanook and Long Con are the silence between tracks on your favorite studio album. Alison seems suspicious but could easily be town anyway.

We've got to find a way to break out of this reads malaise. I am getting the vibe that others are experiencing something similar, so I say "we". I'm kind of trying to force the issue with stuff like the blind interactions, and it still doesn't feel like the game state is progressing. Maybe another flip will help. We'd better hope so, or this game is in trouble. I don't blame anyone for this, and I don't particularly know how we've ended up in this position. But it needs to change.

For the record, I'm not participating in any of your GTH shenanigans.

That...

is a fantastic idea.

Saddle up gang, we're going to the shootin' range!

[MartinGG99]

That...

is a fantastic idea.

Saddle up gang, we're going to the shootin' range!

I've given a GTH before to SPF earlier today.

It was shoot Alison or Nook, and I ended up on Alison as scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everyone is participating, because I make the rules. I'm the boss. I will limit this to just a few posts for each of us so I don't eat up the post cap. Y'all who know the drill, let's play Bun To Head.

Those who don't (perhaps Thunal and Martin?), the following exercise is simple. I am going to throw out the names of players at random. Simply quote the post I throw out and respond with a read on each player with NO NULL OR NEUTRAL OR IDK ALLOWED. You may say "mafia" or "town" (or whatever wolf/villager/civilian/cucumber variant you wish). Imagine a bun is being pointed at your head, and your assailant is threating to pull the bun trigger if you don't provide a stance immediately.

[staypositivefriend]

he frames the main reason for why we should chop alison to be to "find out" if alison is town or mafia - and not because alison is actually suspicious. i also am concerned by the fact that alison's strong defense of martin does not seem to be influencing martin's perception of alison, or making him doubt himself. i feel like he's both hedging on alison's alignment while pushing for her chop at the same time

none of this definitely makes martin mafia, but it's enough to make me concerned that he is not solving with a genuine mindset

Well, I hope this game reveals to me either:

1. I act scummy
2. I think scummy
3. I'm bad at reads
4. I think + act scummy
5. All of the above

I'm honestly getting really tired of people swinging on, at separate parts of the game, "Oh I think this is a really towny post" to "this post makes me doubt Martin" (I can't recall you specifically doing that to me).

It just seems like no matter what I do for either alignment I always seem to end up on the rear end of people's PoE's or "Null".

for what it's worth, i do not think that youre bad at reads by any means, and i also don't think that you're super scummy - i'm just having trouble townreading you, and i do have concerns about your game. i'm sorry if i'm adding to your frustrations at all

[JaggedJimmyJay]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[MartinGG99]

for what it's worth, i do not think that youre bad at reads by any means, and i also don't think that you're super scummy - i'm just having trouble townreading you, and i do have concerns about your game. i'm sorry if i'm adding to your frustrations at all

Oh no one here is responsible for it at all, though I do appreciate the apology.

I just have to keep a positive mindset about it and remember that I can learn from this game. Some day I will get better and I just have to not give up on that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

town
town
mafia

[staypositivefriend]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

maf
town
town

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Town
Idk
Town I guess

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nutella/jay team confirmed

[MartinGG99]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Martin Idk not allowed
Nutella Town
Nanook Mafia

[Long Con]

Nope
I said
No

[JaggedJimmyJay]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

[Alison]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

town
town
town

[staypositivefriend]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

town
town
maf
maf

[JaggedJimmyJay]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

town
town
mafia
mafia

[MartinGG99]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

Hally mafia
Tutuu town
Sloonei Town
Alison mafia

[Alison]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

town
town
mafia
town

[nutella]

I looked through nutella's posts, and was looking at how her opinions developed. I'm up to Wed morning and I want to take a break.

She pushed the idea that she was really sure that Hally and Sloonei are a difference check, which looks to me like setting up yeets based on town getting yeeted. @nutella why caqn't Hally and Sloonei be t-t? What is it about their interactions? I think it's because you thought they were both wolves, but then their interactions unaligned them for you.

this is very outdated. that was a super early d1 take that I no longer believe in. i'm pretty sure i explained this way back when it was a thing though -- i just suspected both of them enough to think at least one of them had to be scum, and at first didn't think they couldn't be w/w but then something unaligned them yeah. but then later on d1 i was townreading hally more.

Something that does bother me is that you really don't interact with Sloonei until almost 24 hours in, and that's after a great deal of suspicion you have directed toward him. I have been caught before as scum for a lack of interactions with my partner, and Sloonei, up to this point, is basically your only scumread (aside from a couple of jabs at Carotte). This is the first post I see that gives opinions of anyone else, and it's extremely tentative. For someone who prefers to put it all out there on Day 1, with 8 hours left you have a lot of talk and very few suspects. You have a Sloonei mega-focus, and a Carrote "sure".

I'm not sure what your point is here -- that i suspected sloonei but didn't directly engage with him?

I think SPF seems town. The more careful language there is deliberate.

I had to chew on this tidbit of self-awareness for a while

Can you talk about this a little?

I was struck sort of off-balance by that particular hedge from Jay on spf. I don't recall my exact thought process at the time but it just sort of made me stop scrolling for a minute and try to process whether to tinfoil him for being so overt about the hedge itself, sort of like "is this a caricature of jay's precision with his language, or just the real thing" but I ultimately didn't come away feeling like it was a significant point to suspect him for.

Spoiler: show

fwiw, i kind of doubt that this is how jagged would react to his partner being pressured this early into the game. jagged sticking his neck out for a player that everyone scumreads would be such a blatant angle for jagged to take with his partner that it feels unlikely. but the fact that i dont particularly tr sloonei/jagged yet is genuinely concerning to me

this sounds almost identical to a post you made in finale lol. i hope you're right

Was SPF town in the finale? I don't know what this means to you.

yes

[JaggedJimmyJay]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

[staypositivefriend]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

Hally mafia

i feel like im really bombarding you w/questions tonight but im very interested in hearing you expand on this read

[JaggedJimmyJay]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

town
miserable sack of shit
town
mafia

[MartinGG99]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

SPF town
JJJ town
Thunal town
Long Con mafia

[staypositivefriend]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

100% mafia
town
town
town

[Alison]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

town
town
mafia
town

[MartinGG99]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

Hally mafia

i feel like im really bombarding you w/questions tonight but im very interested in hearing you expand on this read

I can't put Null there. See my latest reads list that had @ hally in it. I haven't looked into her a lot.

If I exchanged ideas with you it wouldn't be of much worth.

[nutella]

he frames the main reason for why we should chop alison to be to "find out" if alison is town or mafia - and not because alison is actually suspicious. i also am concerned by the fact that alison's strong defense of martin does not seem to be influencing martin's perception of alison, or making him doubt himself. i feel like he's both hedging on alison's alignment while pushing for her chop at the same time

none of this definitely makes martin mafia, but it's enough to make me concerned that he is not solving with a genuine mindset

I'm getting similar feelings about martin. His angle toward chopping alison feels disingenuous somehow. I'm also getting weird vibes from the frequency with which he's cited the fact that he's a pretty new player. Like I got it the first time, no need to keep pointing that out, it's starting to seem like an odd defense.

[nutella]

Oh shit I'm missing gth

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh shit I'm missing gth

There's still time go hurry be like the wind

[nutella]

BUN TO HEAD GO

MARTINGG99
NUTELLA
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

scum
meerkat
town

[nutella]

HALLY
TUTUU
SLOONEI
ALISON

town
town
scum
town

[nutella]

STAYPOSITIVEFRIEND
JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
THUNAL33
LONG CON

town
town
town
town

[Alison]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll chart our findings in proper APA format.

[nutella]

Saddle up gang, we're going to the shootin' range!

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