Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[nutella]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Baited x2

[DrWilgy]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Hello Doctor, what else do you dig?

I'm diggin Tim Town
Diggin Mac Town
Diggin odd feeling on Hazlenut

Hyena bad If Nook bad

Nook... Od by presence of Hazlenut.

[nutella]

For exactly the reasons stated. The Syndicate absolutely runs on feelie reads. w!Nanook uses pointless off topic interactions to butter you up, not to attract your attention in any conflict feeling way.

This is the part I do not understand. I remember the exchange between nutella and nanook (the hipster mustache post made me laugh). It was clearly and obviously meant as playful banter. If we are choosing between nanook "buttering up" nutella versus initiating conflict, I'm going with the former ten times out of ten.

Neither of these things needs to be the case. I don't really read it as much more than off-topic chatter about fruit. I liked nutella's observation that nanook was engaging there out of a sense of relief to have something to talk about, and I feel that has at least a trace of merit to it. I think that can be a thing that happens to wolves who are struggling to integrate themselves into the game. I don't think that has to mean that a wolf nanook would have had to have any particular strategy or scheme when he made those posts.

Yeah

[112]

sloonei town, anyone who disagrees is not seeing the game well

[nutella]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Sloonei has said this as mafia before. I also know what comes next.

?

[DrWilgy]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Baited x2

Vote for me you coward.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: TacoSecurityProvisions] aubergine
@TonyStarkPrime where u at?

[MacDougall]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Sloonei has said this as mafia before. I also know what comes next.

Do your best Sloonei impression please.

It would either be this



or this

"It wouldn't be a mafia game without Mac scumreading Sloonei day 1."

[DrWilgy]

sloonei town, anyone who disagrees is not seeing the game well

As someone who only read the past 5 pages... You are toying with my emotions.

[nutella]

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

You baited them by controlling me? That's some next level shit.

[MacDougall]

Actually yes DrWilgy and Hyena are actually teammates that's actually a good asf read hahaha.

[Thunal33]

sloonei town, anyone who disagrees is not seeing the game well

Why are you confident Sloonei is town? Also, what's your read on me right now?

[Sloonei]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Hello Doctor, what else do you dig?

I'm diggin Tim Town
Diggin Mac Town
Diggin odd feeling on Hazlenut

Hyena bad If Nook bad

Nook... Od by presence of Hazlenut.

What's town about tim? What's odd about nutella, and is that oddness indicative of either alignment?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Meh he’d still be better off trying to pocket Nutes or Mac unless he’s teamed with both

That’s true for multi and single ball

I know someone from MU who played a 3p scum faction exactly the way she would play town, like putting lots of thought in solving and townreading/scumreading exactly the same people she would as town with the exception of her teammates. However, if I randed 3p (which I still never have) I imagine I would strategically tweak my reads to improve my appearance and further my team's agenda. Do we think most scum members would solve just like they would as town except for their teammates or strategically change their reads from what they actually believe?

Tim will play scum whatever way he thinks gives him the best chance to win

[Sloonei]

sloonei town, anyone who disagrees is not seeing the game well

what happened?

[Hyena]

Sloonei, as far as my scumread on you goes, it started off as a couple pings here and there, but then this happened:

i dont need to case it so much, you are asking way too much of me and i have no reason to put so much effort into answering such a vague question any further than i have

This is twice already that you’ve responded to token SlooneiProds by telling me essentially to knock it off. That’s not always an unfair response. My questions can be overbearing, and sometimes that’s partially the point. It was the first time. But this time I feel like I am asking a pair of straightforward and reasonable questions as part of an early dialogue in the game. I do not think my questions are vague at all, and I am not trying to be difficult.

You said you think Mac looks different than he usually does. I don’t see it and am asking for elaboration. Maybe there’s a linguistic divide here. I am struggling with your assertion that Mac “isn’t trying to be taken seriously” as part of your accusation. I see the behavior you are pointing to but I don’t see A) why it’s unusual for him, B) why he would need to be trying to be taken seriously as town, or C) what precisely it means if he is not trying to be taken seriously. There are lots of motives for floating less-than-serious reads on Day 0/1 of a game, for instance.

I've got my own reasoning why Mac feels different this game if you want to hear it.

Yes

Mac is half-assing his prodding around. I feel like he's trying to make it look like that he's trying to get people to react to him (hence why I was saying he was trying to impersonate me), but isn't actually trying to since his bait is not believable. Like compare his accusations to the one I made against you -- which felt more real/believable to you?

And then I don't remember any sort of response from you. That made me feel like your interaction with Tutuu here wasn't really about Mac here. Otherwise, I think you would've continued talking to me about Mac, either defending him more or kinda agreeing with me or something. That means to me that you just wanted to push on Tutuu, who from my perspective seemed a little overwhelmed at the moment?

[Timsup2nothin]

I think it's really interesting how Nutella and Sloonei are both talking to me with high focus on what I said about Nutella's read on Nanook...which was a day zero nothing that was just flawed in presentation...and Sloonei is trying to pry into that as if what I said about his interaction with Nutella applied there.

Sloonei, in my book your "I like this post" was an attempt, consciously or unconsciously to blow smoke up Nut's ass. There was really nothing likeable about that post, and apparently I am not the only one to notice. Now, you're a nice guy, and the Syndicate really lends itself to smoke up the ass blowing, so I'm not gonna lock you in as scum for something that may have just been part of your regular persona...but it could be agenda driven w!Sloonei. We'll wait and see.

[tutuu]

i think the best way to form reads is to look at not only who's being towny but also who's being so towny that they would attract a night kill + non w/w interactions

but doing these things would net u dead which is bad for town if ur town and since multiball (if it is) games break the very concept of the original mafia game (uninformed majority vs informed minority), i think the correct approach is to think that if you are "town" you are just part of one of the tribes, and u should kind of play similarly to scum in the sense that self-preservation as town could be an important part just like old school syndicate games where night killed people werent given wins, therefore its suboptimal for one to do the optimal approach of solving the game (assuming that all of my opinions are correct)

in conclusion: i have no conclusion i am just in one of my pessimistic moods and i could be biased and im just overflowing with pessimism but sometimes its accurate and correct but i cant trust myself to know always if its correct or incorrect to trust. yeah. sorry for wasting ur time if u read this post

[Hyena]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Also, we played together somewhat in the game where I was stuck in a Discord chat for the first two days. We even agreed on reads, albeit while I was still stuck in Discord (Marmot communicated that to you though!).

[nutella]

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

You baited them by controlling me? That's some next level shit.

We make a great team

[nutella]

Actually yes DrWilgy and Hyena are actually teammates that's actually a good asf read hahaha.

Lmao right?

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim is probably also town cause in what world does he try to pocket me instead of nutella or Mac

he did try to pocket me

Nah, I'd just rather sheep your reads than invest heavily in reading the thread.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Also, we played together somewhat in the game where I was stuck in a Discord chat for the first two days. We even agreed on reads, albeit while I was still stuck in Discord (Marmot communicated that to you though!).

That was a good game

[tutuu]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine i had this on my mind before slooni voted; i was afraid to vote because my last game with tony i tunneled him very hard and i was wrong

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, as far as my scumread on you goes, it started off as a couple pings here and there, but then this happened:

i dont need to case it so much, you are asking way too much of me and i have no reason to put so much effort into answering such a vague question any further than i have

This is twice already that you’ve responded to token SlooneiProds by telling me essentially to knock it off. That’s not always an unfair response. My questions can be overbearing, and sometimes that’s partially the point. It was the first time. But this time I feel like I am asking a pair of straightforward and reasonable questions as part of an early dialogue in the game. I do not think my questions are vague at all, and I am not trying to be difficult.

You said you think Mac looks different than he usually does. I don’t see it and am asking for elaboration. Maybe there’s a linguistic divide here. I am struggling with your assertion that Mac “isn’t trying to be taken seriously” as part of your accusation. I see the behavior you are pointing to but I don’t see A) why it’s unusual for him, B) why he would need to be trying to be taken seriously as town, or C) what precisely it means if he is not trying to be taken seriously. There are lots of motives for floating less-than-serious reads on Day 0/1 of a game, for instance.

I've got my own reasoning why Mac feels different this game if you want to hear it.

Yes

Mac is half-assing his prodding around. I feel like he's trying to make it look like that he's trying to get people to react to him (hence why I was saying he was trying to impersonate me), but isn't actually trying to since his bait is not believable. Like compare his accusations to the one I made against you -- which felt more real/believable to you?

And then I don't remember any sort of response from you. That made me feel like your interaction with Tutuu here wasn't really about Mac here. Otherwise, I think you would've continued talking to me about Mac, either defending him more or kinda agreeing with me or something. That means to me that you just wanted to push on Tutuu, who from my perspective seemed a little overwhelmed at the moment?

I had not seen this post until now. I was not fully present in the thread at the time, and I think I said as much. I apologize for engaging but not following up. But I wasn't really here. Was it also you that called me out for not joking around in real time with everyone else? Same deal as that.

I was interested in pushing tutuu at the time, and you're right that I was more interested in her than Mac here. I eventually arrived at a comfortable town read on her. This exchange was part of that.

Do you still feel this way about Mac?

[Hyena]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Also, we played together somewhat in the game where I was stuck in a Discord chat for the first two days. We even agreed on reads, albeit while I was still stuck in Discord (Marmot communicated that to you though!).

That was a good game

I'm less salty now about being stuck in Discord for two day phases to admit that it was a good game. :P

[Thunal33]

i think the best way to form reads is to look at not only who's being towny but also who's being so towny that they would attract a night kill + non w/w interactions

but doing these things would net u dead which is bad for town if ur town and since multiball (if it is) games break the very concept of the original mafia game (uninformed majority vs informed minority), i think the correct approach is to think that if you are "town" you are just part of one of the tribes, and u should kind of play similarly to scum in the sense that self-preservation as town could be an important part just like old school syndicate games where night killed people werent given wins, therefore its suboptimal for one to do the optimal approach of solving the game (assuming that all of my opinions are correct)

in conclusion: i have no conclusion i am just in one of my pessimistic moods and i could be biased and im just overflowing with pessimism but sometimes its accurate and correct but i cant trust myself to know always if its correct or incorrect to trust. yeah. sorry for wasting ur time if u read this post

That makes the game a whole lot harder to read, and I feel like a large portion of us don't even need to hold back our town games to avoid an NK. Scum will then also hold back their games and on balance it will be the same as if nobody held back their games but there's less info being generated.

[tutuu]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

But this must be done

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: TacoSecurityProvisions] aubergine
@TonyStarkPrime where u at?

busy

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Here's the thing.

Sloonei is mafia.

I knew you'd come around on Sloonei. <3 I was seriously going to ask you about Sloonei's opininion on Tutuu compared to yours if you hadn't mentioned him soon.

Talk to me about me, Hyena. The only game I remember playing with you was U-Pick, and you scum-read me off the bat then as well. I played very very different, but I was town there as well. I forget what your alignment was, but I remember OMGUSing you a bit.

Also, we played together somewhat in the game where I was stuck in a Discord chat for the first two days. We even agreed on reads, albeit while I was still stuck in Discord (Marmot communicated that to you though!).

That was a good game

I'm less salty now about being stuck in Discord for two day phases to admit that it was a good game. :P

An award winning game even, some might say

[DrWilgy]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Hello Doctor, what else do you dig?

I'm diggin Tim Town
Diggin Mac Town
Diggin odd feeling on Hazlenut

Hyena bad If Nook bad

Nook... Odd by presence of Hazlenut.

What's town about tim? What's odd about nutella, and is that oddness indicative of either alignment?

Idk I like his read re Hazelnut just a moment ago.

Hazelnut's immediate and hardfound sus of me but took me calling her a coward twice to get a vote. I find it out of place. Indicitive of W, BUT I am aware that I must evaluate the root of this.

Now that I think about it, situation where Hyena is bad, Hazelnut is good. Situation where Hyena is bad, Nanook is good. Situation where Hazelnut is good, Sloonei is... Better.

Hyena is the root.

[tutuu]

i think the best way to form reads is to look at not only who's being towny but also who's being so towny that they would attract a night kill + non w/w interactions

but doing these things would net u dead which is bad for town if ur town and since multiball (if it is) games break the very concept of the original mafia game (uninformed majority vs informed minority), i think the correct approach is to think that if you are "town" you are just part of one of the tribes, and u should kind of play similarly to scum in the sense that self-preservation as town could be an important part just like old school syndicate games where night killed people werent given wins, therefore its suboptimal for one to do the optimal approach of solving the game (assuming that all of my opinions are correct)

in conclusion: i have no conclusion i am just in one of my pessimistic moods and i could be biased and im just overflowing with pessimism but sometimes its accurate and correct but i cant trust myself to know always if its correct or incorrect to trust. yeah. sorry for wasting ur time if u read this post

That makes the game a whole lot harder to read, and I feel like a large portion of us don't even need to hold back our town games to avoid an NK. Scum will then also hold back their games and on balance it will be the same as if nobody held back their games but there's less info being generated.

Fair

[Sloonei]

I think it's really interesting how Nutella and Sloonei are both talking to me with high focus on what I said about Nutella's read on Nanook...which was a day zero nothing that was just flawed in presentation...and Sloonei is trying to pry into that as if what I said about his interaction with Nutella applied there.

Sloonei, in my book your "I like this post" was an attempt, consciously or unconsciously to blow smoke up Nut's ass. There was really nothing likeable about that post, and apparently I am not the only one to notice. Now, you're a nice guy, and the Syndicate really lends itself to smoke up the ass blowing, so I'm not gonna lock you in as scum for something that may have just been part of your regular persona...but it could be agenda driven w!Sloonei. We'll wait and see.

You are not reading me properly, but that we'll see that later I suppose.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

TSP also town

[Thunal33]

Meh he’d still be better off trying to pocket Nutes or Mac unless he’s teamed with both

That’s true for multi and single ball

I know someone from MU who played a 3p scum faction exactly the way she would play town, like putting lots of thought in solving and townreading/scumreading exactly the same people she would as town with the exception of her teammates. However, if I randed 3p (which I still never have) I imagine I would strategically tweak my reads to improve my appearance and further my team's agenda. Do we think most scum members would solve just like they would as town except for their teammates or strategically change their reads from what they actually believe?

Tim will play scum whatever way he thinks gives him the best chance to win

I've never actually played with Tim but I did barely skim his champs qualifier at one point, does he always try really hard to look towny and post a lot as wolf or is that just a champs thing?

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

But this must be done

You are the true non coward spinning anime girl. You deserve head pats.

[Sloonei]

i think the best way to form reads is to look at not only who's being towny but also who's being so towny that they would attract a night kill + non w/w interactions

but doing these things would net u dead which is bad for town if ur town and since multiball (if it is) games break the very concept of the original mafia game (uninformed majority vs informed minority), i think the correct approach is to think that if you are "town" you are just part of one of the tribes, and u should kind of play similarly to scum in the sense that self-preservation as town could be an important part just like old school syndicate games where night killed people werent given wins, therefore its suboptimal for one to do the optimal approach of solving the game (assuming that all of my opinions are correct)

in conclusion: i have no conclusion i am just in one of my pessimistic moods and i could be biased and im just overflowing with pessimism but sometimes its accurate and correct but i cant trust myself to know always if its correct or incorrect to trust. yeah. sorry for wasting ur time if u read this post

patpat

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: TacoSecurityProvisions] aubergine
@TonyStarkPrime where u at?

busy

what percentage of this thread have you read so far?

[Thunal33]

I don't have any solid suspects right now, but I don't get the push on DrWilgy. I just don't think he's done anything I can sort as AI, why are people scumreading him already?

[MacDougall]

TRIBUNAL ASSEMBLE

[Sloonei]

I actually kinda dig the Scum Sloonei read.

Hello Doctor, what else do you dig?

I'm diggin Tim Town
Diggin Mac Town
Diggin odd feeling on Hazlenut

Hyena bad If Nook bad

Nook... Odd by presence of Hazlenut.

What's town about tim? What's odd about nutella, and is that oddness indicative of either alignment?

Idk I like his read re Hazelnut just a moment ago.

Hazelnut's immediate and hardfound sus of me but took me calling her a coward twice to get a vote. I find it out of place. Indicitive of W, BUT I am aware that I must evaluate the root of this.

Now that I think about it, situation where Hyena is bad, Hazelnut is good. Situation where Hyena is bad, Nanook is good. Situation where Hazelnut is good, Sloonei is... Better.

Hyena is the root.

Do you have an independent reason to suspect Hyena, or do you just suspect them in relation to a bunch of other people?

[tutuu]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

But this must be done

You are the true non coward spinning anime girl. You deserve head pats.

i feel bad that im voting you and you're giving me compliments T_T

im rly sorry that i pressed vote wilgy (if ur town)

but if ur not town im not sorry

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Meh he’d still be better off trying to pocket Nutes or Mac unless he’s teamed with both

That’s true for multi and single ball

I know someone from MU who played a 3p scum faction exactly the way she would play town, like putting lots of thought in solving and townreading/scumreading exactly the same people she would as town with the exception of her teammates. However, if I randed 3p (which I still never have) I imagine I would strategically tweak my reads to improve my appearance and further my team's agenda. Do we think most scum members would solve just like they would as town except for their teammates or strategically change their reads from what they actually believe?

Tim will play scum whatever way he thinks gives him the best chance to win

I've never actually played with Tim but I did barely skim his champs qualifier at one point, does he always try really hard to look towny and post a lot as wolf or is that just a champs thing?

I think he just plays however he thinks he needs to play to win? So if he thinks he needs to look townie he’ll do that, if he thinks he needs to power through scum agenda he’ll do that. He’s fairly adaptable afaik

[Timsup2nothin]

Meh he’d still be better off trying to pocket Nutes or Mac unless he’s teamed with both

That’s true for multi and single ball

I know someone from MU who played a 3p scum faction exactly the way she would play town, like putting lots of thought in solving and townreading/scumreading exactly the same people she would as town with the exception of her teammates. However, if I randed 3p (which I still never have) I imagine I would strategically tweak my reads to improve my appearance and further my team's agenda. Do we think most scum members would solve just like they would as town except for their teammates or strategically change their reads from what they actually believe?

Tim will play scum whatever way he thinks gives him the best chance to win

I've never actually played with Tim but I did barely skim his champs qualifier at one point, does he always try really hard to look towny and post a lot as wolf or is that just a champs thing?

That was my second wolf game ever and while I enjoyed the acclaim it is probably not sound reasoning to think it locked me into that particular approach. It wasn't "just a champs thing" but it also wasn't likely to become my "definitive wolf meta."

[Hyena]

Sloonei, as far as my scumread on you goes, it started off as a couple pings here and there, but then this happened:

i dont need to case it so much, you are asking way too much of me and i have no reason to put so much effort into answering such a vague question any further than i have

This is twice already that you’ve responded to token SlooneiProds by telling me essentially to knock it off. That’s not always an unfair response. My questions can be overbearing, and sometimes that’s partially the point. It was the first time. But this time I feel like I am asking a pair of straightforward and reasonable questions as part of an early dialogue in the game. I do not think my questions are vague at all, and I am not trying to be difficult.

You said you think Mac looks different than he usually does. I don’t see it and am asking for elaboration. Maybe there’s a linguistic divide here. I am struggling with your assertion that Mac “isn’t trying to be taken seriously” as part of your accusation. I see the behavior you are pointing to but I don’t see A) why it’s unusual for him, B) why he would need to be trying to be taken seriously as town, or C) what precisely it means if he is not trying to be taken seriously. There are lots of motives for floating less-than-serious reads on Day 0/1 of a game, for instance.

I've got my own reasoning why Mac feels different this game if you want to hear it.

Yes

Mac is half-assing his prodding around. I feel like he's trying to make it look like that he's trying to get people to react to him (hence why I was saying he was trying to impersonate me), but isn't actually trying to since his bait is not believable. Like compare his accusations to the one I made against you -- which felt more real/believable to you?

And then I don't remember any sort of response from you. That made me feel like your interaction with Tutuu here wasn't really about Mac here. Otherwise, I think you would've continued talking to me about Mac, either defending him more or kinda agreeing with me or something. That means to me that you just wanted to push on Tutuu, who from my perspective seemed a little overwhelmed at the moment?

I had not seen this post until now. I was not fully present in the thread at the time, and I think I said as much. I apologize for engaging but not following up. But I wasn't really here. Was it also you that called me out for not joking around in real time with everyone else? Same deal as that.

I was interested in pushing tutuu at the time, and you're right that I was more interested in her than Mac here. I eventually arrived at a comfortable town read on her. This exchange was part of that.

Do you still feel this way about Mac?

Yes, I was also the one who called you out about not joking around in real time with everyone else. I let that go and gave you the benefit of the doubt, but then, like, you did it again with that post, so I was like, "is something going on here?" Either way, I still think Mac did act weirdly at that point of the game. I also don't think I've ever seen him be, like, hilariously brutally honest about people's playstyles like he was to me ("hyena scumsides as town") and tutuu ("tends to sheep her friends" or something like that). It came off in a way to discredit what we were doing.

[tutuu]

ily slooni

[DrWilgy]

I don't have any solid suspects right now, but I don't get the push on DrWilgy. I just don't think he's done anything I can sort as AI, why are people scumreading him already?

Don't you blame them cuties, I'd scumread me too.

[Sloonei]

I don't have any solid suspects right now, but I don't get the push on DrWilgy. I just don't think he's done anything I can sort as AI, why are people scumreading him already?

It's a tradition as old as time itself to pile votes on DrWilgy the moment he shows up on Day 1. Even when he's on a sockpuppet.

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

But this must be done

You are the true non coward spinning anime girl. You deserve head pats.

i feel bad that im voting you and you're giving me compliments T_T

im rly sorry that i pressed vote wilgy (if ur town)

but if ur not town im not sorry

Do not feel bad. This is the way.