Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[nutella]

i can see being roleblocked receiving the same feedback as "no difference" here

nah there's no way it works like that.

but here's another thing: he said if one of them were 3p then it doesn't matter. 3p shows different to anything.

buddy i have played more syndicate games than u trust me it can

assuming is a recipe for disaster, please trust me

well i've played more than you and i think this is a silly extrapolation from a couple games and something as specific as "no difference" for a parity check would not be phrased the same when blocked i would bet, but also we dont think this is a traditional parity check so it's irrelevant lol

[nutella]

so...if he was a parity cop and said they're the same alignment, and then said if one of them is 3p it doesn't count

that kinda contradicts it, since 3p shows different to anything.

hope that makes sense.

yeah idk

[tedxtr]

i can see being roleblocked receiving the same feedback as "no difference" here

nah there's no way it works like that.

but here's another thing: he said if one of them were 3p then it doesn't matter. 3p shows different to anything.

buddy i have played more syndicate games than u trust me it can

assuming is a recipe for disaster, please trust me

well i've played more than you and i think this is a silly extrapolation from a couple games and something as specific as "no difference" for a parity check would not be phrased the same when blocked i would bet, but also we dont think this is a traditional parity check so it's irrelevant lol

that's the only line you can draw from this aorn, agreed

[nutella]

tutuu is just like "you have to assume roles on the syndicate are as maximally bizarre as possible"

i promise u epi is not quite that insane

[tutuu]

ted if u were to see "no double targetting" rule would u assume that means only power roles and not the mafia factional kill? yea? if u assume that u lose. im trying to save u kiddo. before its too late!!! grab my hand!

[tutuu]

tutuu is just like "you have to assume roles on the syndicate are as maximally bizarre as possible"

i promise u epi is not quite that insane

u know that meme with that pink blob hiding inside the big barrier walls? that says never again? yeppp. sorry gurl i cant

[tedxtr]

ted if u were to see "no double targetting" rule would u assume that means only power roles and not the mafia factional kill? yea? if u assume that u lose. im trying to save u kiddo. before its too late!!! grab my hand!

wat

[tedxtr]

alright the convo has gone pretty boring

i'll go eat

sandwiches / omelette, what should i go for?

[nutella]

make omelette put in sammich? profit?

[tedxtr]

you know what, i like how you think. i'll go ahead and try that. with cucumber too

lateeeerz

[Dyslexicon]

112 wagon is currently the cool place to be where all the cool kids are at #sheepthegoat

I'll see if I figure out what this is about. I'd love for 112 to be scum, cause then the "mafia that don't know Dizzy likes to push Dizzy" trope is still alive and well. Currently reading your ISO to get more of a window into the game. =p

[Dyslexicon]

Sheeping on 112

[VOTE: 112] aubergine

Totally didn't buy his suspicion on me and "there's not enough votes on Dizzy" on D1 anyway.
If 112 is scum, I know I thought D1 that Nanook/112 could be a thing, though tbh I don't remember why.

[Michelle]

[VOTE: Dr W] aubergine

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay so this reaction from TSP, Tutuu and Sloonei to my Thunal case. Is precisely why Made is outed mafia for his reaction to my pushing Cat. @nutella

there's a frickin cat in this game?

why are we chopping cat

@dyachei you said you want two votes and received Marmot's
If you need another one, i'll give you mine

i really want the top 2 wagons to be thunal and cat

I've explained thunal a lot and I think cat's a hit too (mostly based on mac's case)

i think that if both those wagons were to die today I'd be pretty happy

bad vibes

[VOTE: cat] aubergine

smh

This progression sucks. Possible wolf.

1) Derp clear me cause I didn’t know cat was in the game.
2) Interested in the Cat case
3) Shades a townie saying they suspect Cat
4) Votes Cat after having said absolutely nothing about Cat. TMI.

Tbf on point 4, I didn’t check if Tony like hated the cw or something.

hm u actually rite tho

I was subtle about this earlier but it bears noting: tbf on point 4, I /voted for Cat on day 2 after he flipped wolf/. so yes, I did have tmi. he had flipped wolf.

[TonyStarkPrime]

this is just so nutella tells tim to not shoot me

[Master Radishes]

Just flicked through Marmots iso again on my phone. Not quoting anything, but...

Reinforces my feeling that he spoke to tutuu not as teammates. Tutuu just town here I think. Marmot treated me the same way on D1.

I do sort of feel it's the same with Falcon. So I guess likely not aligned either and falc is just being a derp.


Marmot quietly defended Thunal. A lot. Not constantly so it didn't stand out as much at the time to me, but little comments here and there. He ignored Cat until clearly realising he had to commit and found an awkward way to join that wagon, so that's different. But looking at how Marmot treated slots like me, tutuu, made, and falcon, all of whom were lightly sussed and kept in the PoE after others had put us there, the hard defense of Thunal stands out.

Also, you know, dya was N1ed.

I'm thinking HK is a good chop choice today.

[Long Con]

If marmot is bad at tetris he carries the kill, I reject LC’s clear attempt

Why would you assume carrying the kill cancels the Tetris? Is that how the wolf team works in this one?

welp, not my best colour choice, not my fault you guise don't have grey here

Just make the three RGB values the same and you'll have grey!

[falcon45ca]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

[falcon45ca]

Tim gonna be like “TSP trying to pad posts for posting two things in a row that could have been one despite the fact that he has 180 posts and Nutella has 7 billion he in fact is the one padding posts and also I SR him because I knew that in the future if I asked Jack to look at his iSo he wouldn’t like it

This was painful to read.

[hollowkatt]

@hollowkatt

The thing with Falcon day one is that the (now flipped so KNOWN) wolves were maneuvering on the Falcon wagon early...like getting established on a likely day one LHF chop so they could be among the "oh, sad, well that's day one and they were kinda wolfy" crowd. Playing for the easy chop early.

As to me not having a read on you...I am pretty slanky this game and beyond who to chop today (not you) and who to shoot tonight (also not you) I just don't need the heartache of getting in our usual slugfest to see if you feel furry when you get hit. If I somehow survive a couple days and have to I'll sort you further, but for now there seems enough consensus that your slot is okay.

me rn

Yeah I'm not gonna carry your ass. Get out there and hop.

That was a pocket joke lol

[falcon45ca]

What's going on with Dr Wilgy?

[falcon45ca]

@hollowkatt

The thing with Falcon day one is that the (now flipped so KNOWN) wolves were maneuvering on the Falcon wagon early...like getting established on a likely day one LHF chop so they could be among the "oh, sad, well that's day one and they were kinda wolfy" crowd. Playing for the easy chop early.

As to me not having a read on you...I am pretty slanky this game and beyond who to chop today (not you) and who to shoot tonight (also not you) I just don't need the heartache of getting in our usual slugfest to see if you feel furry when you get hit. If I somehow survive a couple days and have to I'll sort you further, but for now there seems enough consensus that your slot is okay.

Martin struck me as pretty sus in that regard

[Long Con]

What's going on with Dr Wilgy?

Yeah, why shouldn't why yeet Wilgy? Also, why shouldn't we yeet Jack?

[falcon45ca]

What's going on with Dr Wilgy?

Yeah, why shouldn't why yeet Wilgy? Also, why shouldn't we yeet Jack?

What's your case against Jack?

[Long Con]

What's going on with Dr Wilgy?

Yeah, why shouldn't why yeet Wilgy? Also, why shouldn't we yeet Jack?

What's your case against Jack?

I don't have one, I just don't have a reason to find him town so I was wondering if others have reasons. If Jack is bad, how do we find him?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

[Long Con]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

[falcon45ca]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

Who are you sheeping?

[falcon45ca]

What's going on with Dr Wilgy?

Yeah, why shouldn't why yeet Wilgy? Also, why shouldn't we yeet Jack?

What's your case against Jack?

I don't have one, I just don't have a reason to find him town so I was wondering if others have reasons. If Jack is bad, how do we find him?

He's a question mark for me right now. I'll check his ISO, be back in 3 mins

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

Yep!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

Who are you sheeping?

Nutes

[falcon45ca]

Ok, Jack's ISO is on it's 4th page, but as of yesterday it was on page 2. He's really picked up the pace, and his posts have developed as well...earlier in the game his posts were more comment than post, fairly light. Jacks built quite a case against Tuutu recently, def getting more involved. I'd say that he is town and getting into their game groove.


One thing tho, early Dr W town read for reasons? And then defends the read later on, tho there hadn't been any interactions I noticed.


I'd say Jacks town

[Long Con]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

Yep!

Why would you make it a habit to do something deliberately anti-town?

[falcon45ca]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

Who are you sheeping?

Nutes

Why nutella? Do you often sheep her, are you 2 home slices, or is it specific to this game?

[Hyena]

Cat will be the day 1 chop. Sorry about your vanity cases. Make comfort with this fact people.

I am ok with this.

[VOTE: cat] aubergine

way better choice than falcon

[VOTE: cat] aubergine

way better choice than falcon

On what grounds?

Just for the record.

they're both playing the same superficial, low-content game but falcon's more willing to get into the dirt/nitty-gritty of the game

and i have experience with falcon and am inclined to think he's town, whereas with cat i don't have meta

112 was NOT a wolf during this half hour of their ISO, ergo 112 is not a wolf now. Thank me postgame for preventing the bad mischop.

@nutella @Made @Kylemii @tutuu @Hyena

Ehhh... aren't those posts (especially the "way better choice than falcon" post) the reason why Made and others are suspecting her?

Either way,
[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I'll help you with this wagon.
@Timsup2nothin

[hollowkatt]

ok to shoot:
112 (if not chop), drwilgy, dyslexicon, falcon, jack, marmot, nanook, tsp

@ towncore feel free to remove names, i'd maybe remove dizzy and falcon atp

tim, shoot in these. don't be a neg util hero shooter. thanks

I'd be fine with a shot in that pool

[Hyena]

There are some pretty heavy hitters (ie, people who claim to be reading and ISOing who post quotes and stuff) pushing back on the Tutuu and Falcon wagons...but nothing else seems to gain any traction at all. Is it just me, or does that feel like wolves have settled on a strat of holding TvT wagons in place?

Do you think there's a wolf being voted for then currently?
Looks like wagons are:
112
Wiggly
falcon
LC
Sloonei
HK
TSP
tutuu

Of those I like LC for town, TSP seems ok, haven't gotten anything on sloonei or wiggly, would sheep the 112 arguments, and really still want to brutally day murder tutuu
Falcon wagon comp: I like nutella there, and kinda Radish, and kinda tedxtr

So, just to make sure I'm understanding this correctly, you townread/lean town on everyone in that list except for 112 and Tutuu? Is there anyone outside of these people who you would brutally murder if you had the opportunity?

[falcon45ca]

ok to shoot:
112 (if not chop), drwilgy, dyslexicon, falcon, jack, marmot, nanook, tsp

@ towncore feel free to remove names, i'd maybe remove dizzy and falcon atp

tim, shoot in these. don't be a neg util hero shooter. thanks

I'd be fine with a shot in that pool

There are some pretty heavy hitters (ie, people who claim to be reading and ISOing who post quotes and stuff) pushing back on the Tutuu and Falcon wagons...but nothing else seems to gain any traction at all. Is it just me, or does that feel like wolves have settled on a strat of holding TvT wagons in place?

Do you think there's a wolf being voted for then currently?
Looks like wagons are:
112
Wiggly
falcon
LC
Sloonei
HK
TSP
tutuu

Of those I like LC for town, TSP seems ok, haven't gotten anything on sloonei or wiggly, would sheep the 112 arguments, and really still want to brutally day murder tutuu
Falcon wagon comp: I like nutella there, and kinda Radish, and kinda tedxtr

Huh, townreads TSP but is also ok with shooting TSP

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

Yep!

Why would you make it a habit to do something deliberately anti-town?

Idk I found myself doing it more and more until a couple games ago I just decided I was gonna lean into it and stop calling votes

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

Who are you sheeping?

Nutes

Why nutella? Do you often sheep her, are you 2 home slices, or is it specific to this game?

Mac’s dead

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Trying to scold me about not calling votes isn’t going to have the desired effect

[Long Con]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

Yep!

Why would you make it a habit to do something deliberately anti-town?

Idk I found myself doing it more and more until a couple games ago I just decided I was gonna lean into it and stop calling votes

I am totally down with having a style, but you haven't said *why*. The system was developed to be helpful to solving the game, right? G-Man does fun and unique things without making the game harder to solve, what's up with you?

[Long Con]

Trying to scold me about not calling votes isn’t going to have the desired effect

I don't think I have done any scolding. I want to just understand.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Does Nanook typically vote with no explanation?

Yes

I think you also vote without calling it in the thread, is that accurate?

Yep!

Why would you make it a habit to do something deliberately anti-town?

Idk I found myself doing it more and more until a couple games ago I just decided I was gonna lean into it and stop calling votes

I am totally down with having a style, but you haven't said *why*. The system was developed to be helpful to solving the game, right? G-Man does fun and unique things without making the game harder to solve, what's up with you?

I don’t really think calling votes matters that much so

[Long Con]

We've both seen vote timing analysis in gamesolving, and I am sure that at least some skilled players consider it to be a benefit. You don't see it as a benefit, I guess, and that's fine.

The thing I still don't understand is what benefit you get out of withholding the in-thread vote?

[Hyena]

@Dyslexicon Did you ever respond to any of the posts I directed to you? Also, I talked about you (and 112) a bunch last night -- have you read it yet? If so, got any comments on it?

Here are the aforementioned posts again:

Is everyone who push me as scum still people who don’t know me? Is cool, but not very smart.

I’ll read EoD at some point.

I'm an alt of someone who has played with you. Maybe.

Why am I scum to you, Tutu? Go! I don't really buy that you think so, but go anyway. Convince me, I might agree.

Also, didn't you town read Martin last day?

Process of elimination im not finding u as town and im finding other ppl as town + nutellas idea that u killed dya n1 and if u werent in a mafia team dya probably doesnt die n1

You found me as town D1. You seemed pretty sure. When did that stop? I've never low posted as mafia btw. Not that it should clear me. This answer is not good enough.

And what the fuck is that lol. @nutella Where did that come from?

Reads can't change? o:

I should do Marmot iso too I guess. Also I did no understand Marmot's role.

Oh, and @Sloonei Why did you vote Marmot?

Oof. No, I don't want to read Marmot's ISO. Didn't know it was so long.

I don't really have much motivation for this game. I'm sorry. =/

So, like, if both Wilgy and Dizzy are mafia, mafia's playing really lazily right now. Falcon might fall into that bracket, too, for the "reading Tim's ISO in 10 minutes" thing than saying Tim was 60% scum from it.

If I have Nut, Radish and Syn as hard town, does that sound reasonable? Anyone I should add?

Tim and Made for being on both the Cat and Marmot wagons unless you think scum would bus twice in two consecutive day phases. o:

[Hyena]

We've both seen vote timing analysis in gamesolving, and I am sure that at least some skilled players consider it to be a benefit. You don't see it as a benefit, I guess, and that's fine.

The thing I still don't understand is what benefit you get out of withholding the in-thread vote?

I'm so going to accuse Nanook of stuff and lie about the timing of his votes from now on in games. <3

[Sloonei]

Cat, have you paid attention to people voting you? Who do you think could be the scum jumping on your train?

(If you're town and you end up going over, it'd be good to have your perspective noted.)

No i haven't, i've made walls consistantly and the post i left off at was Dyslexicon snapping back at someone. (I forgot who ) From what i can tell the people voting me didn't like my response to MacDougall so i can't say anyone is wolfy. I don't get pinged when i'm voted so i don't know the context.
On the wagon i have a slight scumread on Nutella, and townread on tutuu. Everyone else is either a mixed bag or i have pretty much no opinion on. Like i said the most important people are the people off wagon or dancing around suspiciously and that is where town usually ignores since they are too focused on "wow, voting townie, there must be scum there".

RE: the 112 wagon, this post from cat suggests to me that those two are not teammates. 112 is the forgotten “someone” that Dizzy was “snapping back at”. I think it is less likely that cat would have forgotten a teammate’s involvement in that exchange than a random non-teammate. If you want to say it was a smokescreen or “anti-spew”, then I’d respond by saying that that would be more meticulous than is expected if anyone.

I don’t have an alternative. The response to my prods about hollowkatt have suggested that people drew more confident positive conclusions about Thunal and cat in Day 1 than I did. I don’t have a case there so much as a lack of a town read.

I think the tutuu votes are way off base. I do not know what to do with falcon.

Sorry for being such a non-participant today. I’m off to work shortly and won’t be done until well after the deadline.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

We've both seen vote timing analysis in gamesolving, and I am sure that at least some skilled players consider it to be a benefit. You don't see it as a benefit, I guess, and that's fine.

The thing I still don't understand is what benefit you get out of withholding the in-thread vote?

I find it annoying

[Justplayingitcool]

Cat, have you paid attention to people voting you? Who do you think could be the scum jumping on your train?

(If you're town and you end up going over, it'd be good to have your perspective noted.)

No i haven't, i've made walls consistantly and the post i left off at was Dyslexicon snapping back at someone. (I forgot who ) From what i can tell the people voting me didn't like my response to MacDougall so i can't say anyone is wolfy. I don't get pinged when i'm voted so i don't know the context.
On the wagon i have a slight scumread on Nutella, and townread on tutuu. Everyone else is either a mixed bag or i have pretty much no opinion on. Like i said the most important people are the people off wagon or dancing around suspiciously and that is where town usually ignores since they are too focused on "wow, voting townie, there must be scum there".

RE: the 112 wagon, this post from cat suggests to me that those two are not teammates. 112 is the forgotten “someone” that Dizzy was “snapping back at”. I think it is less likely that cat would have forgotten a teammate’s involvement in that exchange than a random non-teammate. If you want to say it was a smokescreen or “anti-spew”, then I’d respond by saying that that would be more meticulous than is expected if anyone.

I don’t have an alternative. The response to my prods about hollowkatt have suggested that people drew more confident positive conclusions about Thunal and cat in Day 1 than I did. I don’t have a case there so much as a lack of a town read.

I think the tutuu votes are way off base. I do not know what to do with falcon.

Sorry for being such a non-participant today. I’m off to work shortly and won’t be done until well after the deadline.

This is a fair point.

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine