Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[MartinGG99]

hot take

Chop Chop & Jack are tvt

I'm decently sure I can be confident on Chop Chop being town because I have recent experiences and meta on him, and some of his interactions here line up with what town-play developments I've been seeing from him lately.

If you're expecting him to be an amazing town or someone who will check all the boxes then you're making the wrong evaluation on him. Besides all that meta stuff, he *is* new to this community and I think the way he started interacting early with emoticons was town-indicative. If he were any sort of scum I would see more hesitancy or just lesser use of emoticons.

Now I don't wish to justify his progression (as pointed out by marmot) for him, but if ChopChop is who he is as town there should be a decent reason. I don't know if he'll give that answer or something else, but I really fail to see how he is >rand scum here with my knowledge of him so far.

Jack I've concluded is probably town earlier, though I haven't really looked at their scum-play very much in past games.

[MartinGG99]

(Note this isn't based on any single interaction between them, just based on my independent reads of them.)

[Marmot]

Here's a whole bunch of context at once have fun.

Spoiler: show

I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?

Esooa

walk me through your thought process

I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?

Esooa

walk me through your thought process

let's be honest who here understands this game

This is super towny in a way that I might articulate after a good night's sleep but that you guys can probably vaguely see the angle behind.

Anyone not dark blue would have thought hard about the setup, and wouldn't want their thoughts on the setup to come out because it would be a huge slip risk. This post doesn't read as fake because IIRC it was in the middle of some big aimless convo between me/her/Sloon.

I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?

Esooa

walk me through your thought process

let's be honest who here understands this game

This is super towny in a way that I might articulate after a good night's sleep but that you guys can probably vaguely see the angle behind.

Anyone not dark blue would have thought hard about the setup, and wouldn't want their thoughts on the setup to come out because it would be a huge slip risk. This post doesn't read as fake because IIRC it was in the middle of some big aimless convo between me/her/Sloon.

"esooa is town because she said she doesn't understand the game and that only makes sense if she's vanilla town" is not a good argument

I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?

Esooa

walk me through your thought process

let's be honest who here understands this game

This is super towny in a way that I might articulate after a good night's sleep but that you guys can probably vaguely see the angle behind.

Anyone not dark blue would have thought hard about the setup, and wouldn't want their thoughts on the setup to come out because it would be a huge slip risk. This post doesn't read as fake because IIRC it was in the middle of some big aimless convo between me/her/Sloon.

"esooa is town because she said she doesn't understand the game and that only makes sense if she's vanilla town" is not a good argument

People shit bricks when they rand 3p and need to figure out a gameplan immediately. This game is a town and a bunch of 3ps. Therefore.

People shit bricks when they rand 3p and need to figure out a gameplan immediately. This game is a town and a bunch of 3ps. Therefore.

I think literally every 3P I've seen in my time on the syndicate has been omega chill and didn't care at all about the setup or the other players

the 3Ps here are slightly different from the usual 3Ps but regardless I don't think there's any basis for assuming that roll 3P = setup spec, nor do I think that there's any basis for assuming that setup spec = understand the game

[VOTE: foresight] aubergine

your reasoning is unconvincing and reads like the type of logic that would come out of a scum trying to sound insightful

People shit bricks when they rand 3p and need to figure out a gameplan immediately. This game is a town and a bunch of 3ps. Therefore.

I think literally every 3P I've seen in my time on the syndicate has been omega chill and didn't care at all about the setup or the other players

the 3Ps here are slightly different from the usual 3Ps but regardless I don't think there's any basis for assuming that roll 3P = setup spec, nor do I think that there's any basis for assuming that setup spec = understand the game

Guess this is a TS thing then because everything that makes scum not omega chill applies ten times more to 3p and every remotely antitown 3p I've ever seen wants as little attention as possible.

Point me to where I said setup spec = understanding the setup. The point was about whether Esooa would actually voice that.

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

Okay, I'm willing to actually keep talking about this, but first I'll need input from other people here who are familiar with the site's meta about whether or not it's actually total horseshit to call someone scum for thinking relaxedness is a tell, because this is supposed to be extremely fucking basic and disagreeing is one thing and perfectly fine but then actually making an attack out of someone doing it should be out of the question.

Wallpost!!!

[falcon45ca]

Jack why did you pick one of my only remotely confident townreads?

Bad luck? I mean, my reasoning for suspecting Chop is role fishing from Tony and then what I see as a dishonest push against me.

Why do you townread him?

His opening started with poorly timed shitposting and then it turned into shitposting at any cost necessary. TWTBAW-ish. Like I've said before.

Your only remotely confident TR is based off TWTBAW?




Ooooookay

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei thoughts on ChopChop? I searched through your 230+ posts and found somehow only a single mention/interaction.

Let it rand!

I'm Nagito Komaeda and my ultimate luck will not allow me to be chopped.

Loved how all of you have decided to use the term “Chop” simply because my names ChopChop.

we've been using "chop" here for a while, actually

And it's not even on topic content.

I have no strong read on them. Gun to my head, I would lean town. If I have a concern, it is that they seem very comfortable remaining off the radar. I can't think of a single memorable thing they've done in this game.

I don't really agree with that. I mean, being comfortable remaining under the radar is probably townie behavior, but he's also asked multiple people (including myself) to give a read on him, which isn't really trying to be under the radar.

You mention a concern, but no reason to townread them, how come you GTH townread them?

I mentioned a concern as juxtaposition to my town read to indicate that it is not set in stone.

I town read them because they have not done anything overtly suspicious and I forced myself to choose a stance.

[Marmot]

hot take

Chop Chop & Jack are tvt

I'm decently sure I can be confident on Chop Chop being town because I have recent experiences and meta on him, and some of his interactions here line up with what town-play developments I've been seeing from him lately.

If you're expecting him to be an amazing town or someone who will check all the boxes then you're making the wrong evaluation on him. Besides all that meta stuff, he *is* new to this community and I think the way he started interacting early with emoticons was town-indicative. If he were any sort of scum I would see more hesitancy or just lesser use of emoticons.

Now I don't wish to justify his progression (as pointed out by marmot) for him, but if ChopChop is who he is as town there should be a decent reason. I don't know if he'll give that answer or something else, but I really fail to see how he is >rand scum here with my knowledge of him so far.

Jack I've concluded is probably town earlier, though I haven't really looked at their scum-play very much in past games.

You don't sound confident in your own confidence.

K, this is noted.

[MartinGG99]

I think I'm going to ensure the deletion here.

Give no credit if a wolf and give negative credit if town, but honestly I fail to see BK not getting deleted at some point in this game given their ISO; even if I don't find it very AI overall.

[VOTE: BoKnows] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Here's a whole bunch of context at once have fun.
[a whole bunch of context]

Nowhere in this conversation does Alison say the thing you are accusing her of saying.

[MartinGG99]

You don't sound confident in your own confidence.

..................What?

[Marmot]

Jack why did you pick one of my only remotely confident townreads?

Bad luck? I mean, my reasoning for suspecting Chop is role fishing from Tony and then what I see as a dishonest push against me.

Why do you townread him?

His opening started with poorly timed shitposting and then it turned into shitposting at any cost necessary. TWTBAW-ish. Like I've said before.

Your only remotely confident TR is based off TWTBAW?




Ooooookay

I think it said "one of my only" there

[Urist]

it is unbelievable that c4 is not the leading wagon rn

[Marmot]

You don't sound confident in your own confidence.

..................What?

I'm teasing you.

But you said that you were "decently sure" that you can be confident.

[Marmot]

it is unbelievable that c4 is not the leading wagon rn

Sorry, I started another wagon instead of finishing your assignment.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei thoughts on ChopChop? I searched through your 230+ posts and found somehow only a single mention/interaction.

Let it rand!

I'm Nagito Komaeda and my ultimate luck will not allow me to be chopped.

Loved how all of you have decided to use the term “Chop” simply because my names ChopChop.

we've been using "chop" here for a while, actually

And it's not even on topic content.

I have no strong read on them. Gun to my head, I would lean town. If I have a concern, it is that they seem very comfortable remaining off the radar. I can't think of a single memorable thing they've done in this game.

I don't really agree with that. I mean, being comfortable remaining under the radar is probably townie behavior, but he's also asked multiple people (including myself) to give a read on him, which isn't really trying to be under the radar.

You mention a concern, but no reason to townread them, how come you GTH townread them?

Also what part of this are you referring to when you say you "don't really agree"? You asked for a read and I gave a read with some loose thoughts. I did not say "being under the radar is inherently suspicious", I just said it is a reason for me feeling a twinge of concern about Chop Chop. That's just a feeling I have, not a declaration about the game of mafia.

[Sloonei]

semantics

[Urist]

it is unbelievable that c4 is not the leading wagon rn

Sorry, I started another wagon instead of finishing your assignment.

boooo

[Sloonei]

I'm about to go for a jog. If I get back and no one else cares about my KZA vote, I'll switch to BoKnows. So you all have ~1 hour to start caring about KZA.

Reasons to do so are that he is willfully avoiding saying anything substantial in this game.

[staypositivefriend]

it is unbelievable that c4 is not the leading wagon rn

what's the scummiest thing about him, in ur opinion

[MartinGG99]

You don't sound confident in your own confidence.

..................What?

I'm teasing you.

But you said that you were "decently sure" that you can be confident.

Oh. Well that's more or less something I do at the back of my head.

Its more a relative thing, I can't be really more than decently sure on most other people in the game right now; all of my current reads have at least some confidence in them. But it isn't very high.

So it's relatively confident.

[Marmot]

@Sloonei thoughts on ChopChop? I searched through your 230+ posts and found somehow only a single mention/interaction.

Let it rand!

I'm Nagito Komaeda and my ultimate luck will not allow me to be chopped.

Loved how all of you have decided to use the term “Chop” simply because my names ChopChop.

we've been using "chop" here for a while, actually

And it's not even on topic content.

I have no strong read on them. Gun to my head, I would lean town. If I have a concern, it is that they seem very comfortable remaining off the radar. I can't think of a single memorable thing they've done in this game.

I don't really agree with that. I mean, being comfortable remaining under the radar is probably townie behavior, but he's also asked multiple people (including myself) to give a read on him, which isn't really trying to be under the radar.

You mention a concern, but no reason to townread them, how come you GTH townread them?

Also what part of this are you referring to when you say you "don't really agree"? You asked for a read and I gave a read with some loose thoughts. I did not say "being under the radar is inherently suspicious", I just said it is a reason for me feeling a twinge of concern about Chop Chop. That's just a feeling I have, not a declaration about the game of mafia.

Oh, I was disagreeing that he was comfortable being under the radar, not with your read of that behavior. My point was that him asking for others people's reads on himself was an attempt to not be under the radar.

It's slightly different than your initial point I guess, but I'm satisfied with your read on him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Sloonei thoughts on ChopChop? I searched through your 230+ posts and found somehow only a single mention/interaction.

Let it rand!

I'm Nagito Komaeda and my ultimate luck will not allow me to be chopped.

Loved how all of you have decided to use the term “Chop” simply because my names ChopChop.

we've been using "chop" here for a while, actually

And it's not even on topic content.

I have no strong read on them. Gun to my head, I would lean town. If I have a concern, it is that they seem very comfortable remaining off the radar. I can't think of a single memorable thing they've done in this game.

I don't really agree with that. I mean, being comfortable remaining under the radar is probably townie behavior, but he's also asked multiple people (including myself) to give a read on him, which isn't really trying to be under the radar.

You mention a concern, but no reason to townread them, how come you GTH townread them?

Sloonei + ChopChop.

Gottem.

[Marmot]

@Sloonei thoughts on ChopChop? I searched through your 230+ posts and found somehow only a single mention/interaction.

Let it rand!

I'm Nagito Komaeda and my ultimate luck will not allow me to be chopped.

Loved how all of you have decided to use the term “Chop” simply because my names ChopChop.

we've been using "chop" here for a while, actually

And it's not even on topic content.

I have no strong read on them. Gun to my head, I would lean town. If I have a concern, it is that they seem very comfortable remaining off the radar. I can't think of a single memorable thing they've done in this game.

I don't really agree with that. I mean, being comfortable remaining under the radar is probably townie behavior, but he's also asked multiple people (including myself) to give a read on him, which isn't really trying to be under the radar.

You mention a concern, but no reason to townread them, how come you GTH townread them?

Sloonei + ChopChop.

Gottem.

Plz let mafia be this easy.

[Jackofhearts2005]

hot take

Chop Chop & Jack are tvt

I'm decently sure I can be confident on Chop Chop being town because I have recent experiences and meta on him, and some of his interactions here line up with what town-play developments I've been seeing from him lately.

If you're expecting him to be an amazing town or someone who will check all the boxes then you're making the wrong evaluation on him. Besides all that meta stuff, he *is* new to this community and I think the way he started interacting early with emoticons was town-indicative. If he were any sort of scum I would see more hesitancy or just lesser use of emoticons.

Now I don't wish to justify his progression (as pointed out by marmot) for him, but if ChopChop is who he is as town there should be a decent reason. I don't know if he'll give that answer or something else, but I really fail to see how he is >rand scum here with my knowledge of him so far.

Jack I've concluded is probably town earlier, though I haven't really looked at their scum-play very much in past games.

Oh don’t worry, it’s the exact same as my town play. That should save you some time.

Unless I’m about to get chopped, at which point I’ll throw a big fit and proclaim that my scum game and towngame are miles apart and this is obviously my towngame.

[Urist]

it is unbelievable that c4 is not the leading wagon rn

what's the scummiest thing about him, in ur opinion

the tonal hopscotch he plays going between indignant, joking, & demoralized is very unnatural and reads as 100% fake

[Marmot]

I do want to look at some other BK games. He's rolled scum in each of the last two large games here, so there should be plenty of scum meta to read up on.

[c4e5g3d5]

Here's a whole bunch of context at once have fun.
[a whole bunch of context]

Nowhere in this conversation does Alison say the thing you are accusing her of saying.

She scumreads my read because she says a townie shouldn't come up with it. She thinks that because

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

i.e. the read is scummy for these reasons. Read the first.

[Sloonei]

KZA
KZA

[Marmot]

KZA
KZA

yeah yeah, KZA's kinda scummy too

[Marmot]

but now KZA is scummy in fancy floating colors, the new and improved scummy!

[Jackofhearts2005]

I just have difficulty caring about the “Kza doesn’t use enough words per post or posts per hour. Ergo, wolf” read.

Like I tend to townread KZA based on gut and I’m not seeing the things that have made me do that in the past iirc 2 games I’ve done that to Kza so there’s that but I just find the case unconvincing, especially on D1.

[c4e5g3d5]

Eh, if I'm wrong about Alison lolme and if I'm right chances are even fewer people will listen than if I'm wrong.

[Sloonei]

Okay, that's one thing, how about saying "you're scummy for saying that relaxation is towny" in the first place?

She scumreads my read because she says a townie shouldn't come up with it. She thinks that because

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

i.e. the read is scummy for these reasons. Read the first.

I think this is an absurd interpretation for you to suggest.

Alison's reason for being suspicious of you here, as I understand it, is that your read on Esooa is the type of thing she believes a mafioso would come up with when trying to provide authentic town reads on a player. That does not mean the read is illogical or necessarily false, just that the reasoning is lacking a certain insight that Alison would expect from a civilian. She can correct me if I am mistaken on any of this.

I have no further comment on the validity of alison's suspicion in this case. It is her own. But I do not think it is remotely fair for you to characterize it the way that you have.

[Sloonei]

I just have difficulty caring about the “Kza doesn’t use enough words per post or posts per hour. Ergo, wolf” read.

Like I tend to townread KZA based on gut and I’m not seeing the things that have made me do that in the past iirc 2 games I’ve done that to Kza so there’s that but I just find the case unconvincing, especially on D1.

I was asking kza some very standard, easy questions last night and he resisted answering them at every turn. It's not just about the length of his posts. It is that extracting content from him is a challenge.

[c4e5g3d5]

Okay, that's one thing, how about saying "you're scummy for saying that relaxation is towny" in the first place?

She scumreads my read because she says a townie shouldn't come up with it. She thinks that because

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

i.e. the read is scummy for these reasons. Read the first.

I think this is an absurd interpretation for you to suggest.

Alison's reason for being suspicious of you here, as I understand it, is that your read on Esooa is the type of thing she believes a mafioso would come up with when trying to provide authentic town reads on a player. That does not mean the read is illogical or necessarily false, just that the reasoning is lacking a certain insight that Alison would expect from a civilian. She can correct me if I am mistaken on any of this.

I have no further comment on the validity of alison's suspicion in this case. It is her own. But I do not think it is remotely fair for you to characterize it the way that you have.

Yeah, obviously it wasn't her main case, but she definitely put that in there. Either she thought that or she just wanted a longer list.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I just have difficulty caring about the “Kza doesn’t use enough words per post or posts per hour. Ergo, wolf” read.

Like I tend to townread KZA based on gut and I’m not seeing the things that have made me do that in the past iirc 2 games I’ve done that to Kza so there’s that but I just find the case unconvincing, especially on D1.

I was asking kza some very standard, easy questions last night and he resisted answering them at every turn. It's not just about the length of his posts. It is that extracting content from him is a challenge.

Is wolf Kza so shit at this game that he refuses to even swing at softballs?

[Sloonei]

but now KZA is scummy in fancy floating colors, the new and improved scummy!

Why is kza scummy?

[Sloonei]

I just have difficulty caring about the “Kza doesn’t use enough words per post or posts per hour. Ergo, wolf” read.

Like I tend to townread KZA based on gut and I’m not seeing the things that have made me do that in the past iirc 2 games I’ve done that to Kza so there’s that but I just find the case unconvincing, especially on D1.

I was asking kza some very standard, easy questions last night and he resisted answering them at every turn. It's not just about the length of his posts. It is that extracting content from him is a challenge.

Is wolf Kza so shit at this game that he refuses to even swing at softballs?

I have no idea.

[Sloonei]

Okay, that's one thing, how about saying "you're scummy for saying that relaxation is towny" in the first place?

She scumreads my read because she says a townie shouldn't come up with it. She thinks that because

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

i.e. the read is scummy for these reasons. Read the first.

I think this is an absurd interpretation for you to suggest.

Alison's reason for being suspicious of you here, as I understand it, is that your read on Esooa is the type of thing she believes a mafioso would come up with when trying to provide authentic town reads on a player. That does not mean the read is illogical or necessarily false, just that the reasoning is lacking a certain insight that Alison would expect from a civilian. She can correct me if I am mistaken on any of this.

I have no further comment on the validity of alison's suspicion in this case. It is her own. But I do not think it is remotely fair for you to characterize it the way that you have.

Yeah, obviously it wasn't her main case, but she definitely put that in there. Either she thought that or she just wanted a longer list.

No she didn’t.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lol fair enough. But I wouldn’t bet a yeet on the idea.

[Marmot]

I do want to look at some other BK games. He's rolled scum in each of the last two large games here, so there should be plenty of scum meta to read up on.

This is a little harder than I thought. He replaced out Night 1 in one game and was vigged Day 2 in the other. It's harder than I thought because in neither scenario is there an example of being the primary wagon and getting chopped, so it's not straightforward to compare it to the pressure he's facing here.

That said, BK actually looks far more comfortable in this game dealing with any heat that comes his way, and there's more of it. I'm feeling less excited about chopping him now.

[Marmot]

but now KZA is scummy in fancy floating colors, the new and improved scummy!

Why is kza scummy?

I forget why, I saw something earlier and thought I posted that thought, but apparently I didn't.

[staypositivefriend]

i have some specific concerns about sloonei that i will expand upon tomorrow if something specific happens, and if we are both still alive

i'm posting this here as a reminder to myself

[Marmot]

i have some specific concerns about sloonei that i will expand upon tomorrow if something specific happens, and if we are both still alive

i'm posting this here as a reminder to myself

You have been reminded.

[falcon45ca]

Jack why did you pick one of my only remotely confident townreads?

Bad luck? I mean, my reasoning for suspecting Chop is role fishing from Tony and then what I see as a dishonest push against me.

Why do you townread him?

His opening started with poorly timed shitposting and then it turned into shitposting at any cost necessary. TWTBAW-ish. Like I've said before.

Your only remotely confident TR is based off TWTBAW?




Ooooookay

I think it said "one of my only" there

Fair enough.

[staypositivefriend]

i have some specific concerns about sloonei that i will expand upon tomorrow if something specific happens, and if we are both still alive

i'm posting this here as a reminder to myself

You have been reminded.

nice

[falcon45ca]

i have some specific concerns about sloonei that i will expand upon tomorrow if something specific happens, and if we are both still alive

i'm posting this here as a reminder to myself

Why wait?

[Marmot]

but now KZA is scummy in fancy floating colors, the new and improved scummy!

Why is kza scummy?

I forget why, I saw something earlier and thought I posted that thought, but apparently I didn't.

Oh right, it was KZA's handling of your question.

[Marmot]

EBWOP: questioning, not question.

[c4e5g3d5]

Alright well it's all binned anyway. Probably don't need to tell you guys to watch LC.

[staypositivefriend]

i have some specific concerns about sloonei that i will expand upon tomorrow if something specific happens, and if we are both still alive

i'm posting this here as a reminder to myself

Why wait?

i am a woman of intrigue and mystery