Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[Spacedaisy]

It’s so bizarre though because he clearly planned to claim today or at least something like that

I think Chop intended to play it more subtle. I think their goal was to give me a secretive claim. After I sent my post I saw a post from Chop that echoed things said in the message. Whether or not that makes him more or less likely to be bad I don’t know. But the way it happened reads civ to me, not bad.

[Sloonei]

Can Sloony post less

Yes

[TonyStarkPrime]

This is more proof you're Metzger, cuz you are smart enough to know that viable fake character claims were provided. Especially if you know only 1 other role can dayvig

So you think I am Metzger, lucked into rolling Elridge as a fakeclaim (there aren't enough town-equivalents of each evil role to give fakeclaims to all of them), decided to shoot the most misexable slot on planet earth instead of literally any other player in a game stacked with strong town players with my unstoppable unaccountable daykill, and then holster my nightkill?

Yup.

Good for you, buddy. Have fun.

You seem perturbed. Was it something I said?

Yes, I'm annoyed that I'm getting tinfoiled for bad reasons solely because I'm me.

hashtag relatable

alison sloonei tsp getting tinfoiled for no reason core

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca
@Urist
What’s your guys read on Tony?

Town lean

[TonyStarkPrime]

big brain theory is that chop and daisy are both enclave.

That is a big brain theory. But neither Chop nor Daisy are the kind to come up with a strategy this sneaky, which means there is a mastermind directing this sequence of events from BTSC. Esooa could, I could, neither of us are Enclave. Mac could be the mastermind, but it doesn't suit his style to go full Light Yagami in scum chat and afk in the thread.

Who do you think is the mastermind if this is true? I lean towards it not being true and Daisy just being town. The mix of paranoia and emotion in her post was struck very precisely, and it is not easy to fake.

I don't believe it's true.

but i could see lc pulling something like that. maayyyyybe epi or dom. it's got a very old school syndicate feel.

but i'm not seriously entertaining the theory.

if it's got an old school syndicate feel that I'd also have to include daisy's name on the list. let's not assume she's not a capable schemer.

Aw shucks

Here I was a bit disappointed that the new people don’t have the frame of reference to think I’m sneaky.

Regardless of that, you are speculating about who is bad based upon a bunch of things needing to be true.

ChopChop must be Enclave
I must also be Enclave
Someone else is a mastermind Enclave.

It’s silly because the premise falls apart with the fact that I am not Enclave.

Also I don’t trust you anymore.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It’s so bizarre though because he clearly planned to claim today or at least something like that

I think Chop intended to play it more subtle. I think their goal was to give me a secretive claim. After I sent my post I saw a post from Chop that echoed things said in the message. Whether or not that makes him more or less likely to be bad I don’t know. But the way it happened reads civ to me, not bad.

i mean you and I have very different definitions of subtle

[TonyStarkPrime]

daisy town and stockholm syndromed

[Spacedaisy]

The thing about the "why does Chop do this if he is scum" arguments is this. What if he *is* town? He's never getting NKed. We can't have him around at FX. He has to be resolved by force because this is too huge to ignore. And if Occam's Razor holds true and he is scum, we get a headstart on analyzing all his spew. Just kill the scumslipped slot and move from there rather than mindgaming yourself into a bad exe.

This is the only good argument I’ve heard for voting Choo.

I like Alison for town.

[Spacedaisy]

Is it realistic to think that the Enclave member holding that role would actually forget to include the name of their nightkill victim?

If this team is functioning like a normal team should, that message would have been peer reviewed in the team chat before it got sent out. Somebody should have noticed that Esooa's name was missing.

As a wise man once said: Mafia ChopChop doesn't run it by BTSC.

Night actions are usually highly coordinated tho

What are the chances that the other Enclave members said something like "Chop, send a message to Daisy or something and try to fish for a claim", and they don't review the exact wording?

that would depend on the teammates. I'm too much of a control freak to let a message like that go out without checking it myself. But not everyone would be so neurotic about it.

I feel like you would also be in that camp, along with spf. Ordinarily I'd say Epi, but I feel like he's taking it easy in this game regardless of alignment, so I don't know if he'd doublecheck his student's teammate's work for obvious errors right now. Something tells me nanook would be on alert.
Mac would be crafty enough to come up with the plan, but based on his thread presence he might not be tuned in enough to check the message before sending it out. I feel similar about LC and Marmot.

I don't know enough about the scum games of everyone else to say how they'd handle having that role in the hands of a teammate.

It also depends on the person sending the message. I’m very careful sending that kind of shit, it makes me nervous, so I would have shared it with my team if it were me, and I would’ve waited until they all told me it looked good.

I don’t know what Chop would do though.

[Sloonei]

Is it realistic to think that the Enclave member holding that role would actually forget to include the name of their nightkill victim?

If this team is functioning like a normal team should, that message would have been peer reviewed in the team chat before it got sent out. Somebody should have noticed that Esooa's name was missing.

As a wise man once said: Mafia ChopChop doesn't run it by BTSC.

Night actions are usually highly coordinated tho

What are the chances that the other Enclave members said something like "Chop, send a message to Daisy or something and try to fish for a claim", and they don't review the exact wording?

that would depend on the teammates. I'm too much of a control freak to let a message like that go out without checking it myself. But not everyone would be so neurotic about it.

I feel like you would also be in that camp, along with spf. Ordinarily I'd say Epi, but I feel like he's taking it easy in this game regardless of alignment, so I don't know if he'd doublecheck his student's teammate's work for obvious errors right now. Something tells me nanook would be on alert.
Mac would be crafty enough to come up with the plan, but based on his thread presence he might not be tuned in enough to check the message before sending it out. I feel similar about LC and Marmot.

I don't know enough about the scum games of everyone else to say how they'd handle having that role in the hands of a teammate.

It also depends on the person sending the message. I’m very careful sending that kind of shit, it makes me nervous, so I would have shared it with my team if it were me, and I would’ve waited until they all told me it looked good.

I don’t know what Chop would do though.

For sure.

Based on the way he has responded to things today, he does not strike me as the most cautious or meticulous player out there.

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is more proof you're Metzger, cuz you are smart enough to know that viable fake character claims were provided. Especially if you know only 1 other role can dayvig

So you think I am Metzger, lucked into rolling Elridge as a fakeclaim (there aren't enough town-equivalents of each evil role to give fakeclaims to all of them), decided to shoot the most misexable slot on planet earth instead of literally any other player in a game stacked with strong town players with my unstoppable unaccountable daykill, and then holster my nightkill?

Yup.

Good for you, buddy. Have fun.

You seem perturbed. Was it something I said?

Yes, I'm annoyed that I'm getting tinfoiled for bad reasons solely because I'm me.

hashtag relatable

That’s my line!

Spoiler: show

Though honestly, I bring it upon myself most of the time.

[Spacedaisy]

Who kills Esooa is the other question to have in mind

That's a fairly long list. She was widely town-read, I think.

I wasn’t caught up but I didn’t trust Esooa at all, but I have no idea what others thought of her.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@ChopChop

Can you please tell the class why you messaged Daisy in particular? You express a null read on her in your note.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Spirit support for a CC or Rej yeet.

Also, I thought Esooa looked townie enough yesterday ftr.

[Spacedaisy]

Nanook stop randing mafia

do u have any thoughts on dom

Im probs one of the few ppl in this game with meta on Dom so its important to note my opinion.

I dunno.

I think Dom is town fwiw.

[falcon45ca]

@ChopChop

Can you please tell the class why you messaged Daisy in particular? You express a null read on her in your note.

Thats consistent with his message, he says he null reads her in there as well

[Spacedaisy]

ngl i'm slowly buying into the theory that chopchop and spacedaisy are both wolves

[Sloonei]

@ChopChop

Can you please tell the class why you messaged Daisy in particular? You express a null read on her in your note.

Thats consistent with his message, he says he null reads her in there as well

I think jack is asking why chop employed that strategy in the first place, and why daisy in particular?

[KZA]

For my own amusement and maybe more

What do you guys think of the fact that I was the first one to push BoKnows?

[Spacedaisy]

People saying ima PL, hurts my feelings.

What does PL mean?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@ChopChop

Can you please tell the class why you messaged Daisy in particular? You express a null read on her in your note.

Thats consistent with his message, he says he null reads her in there as well

It’s not about the consistency. It’s about the reasoning.

[Jackofhearts2005]

People saying ima PL, hurts my feelings.

What does PL mean?

Policy Yeet

[TonyStarkPrime]

People saying ima PL, hurts my feelings.

What does PL mean?

policy lynch

[Marmot]

Hi game

[Marmot]

I'm a little happy that my gutreads on BK and c4 were accurate, even though I promoted the BK yeet.

Do we know why c4 died?

[Marmot]

@Sloonei you're voting for me. Is this productive?

[KZA]

damn Marmot is a wolf

[Marmot]

damn Marmot is a wolf

No friend, that alignment belongs to you

[KZA]

here's a spicy take

[VOTE: alison] aubergine

I kind of vibe with this based on her uninspiring sus of Mac

You now know I am town.

Esooa and Urist both tried to raise suspicion on me because of my sus of Mac. Esooa is flipped mafia.

What do you think of Urist and Mac?

I feel like I'm not worried about Mac *right now* since I'm willing to buy he's just having trouble feeling engaged with the game. We're all human. Can't say he's more than null.

Urist I don't know as a player but he doesn't give me a reason to think he's town. Personal spicy theory I just came up with after ISO is there's good odds he's Vault City with Rej and possibly Grogu as teammates.

[KZA]

damn Marmot is a wolf

No friend, that alignment belongs to you

stop it ground squirrel man

[Marmot]

[VOTE: urist] aubergine

That’s a weird way to spell rej

rej can be scum too. i'm just tired of having my read on urist be ignored, especially after he hardtunneled on a town and one of his other hardtunnels (me) was wrong too. i find it difficult to believe that a presumably strong player was 0/2 on d1 than i do to believe that he was just pushing in bad faith like i suspected

I'd sheep your Urist read at this point.

I don't think people are intentionally ignoring you so much as there's just so many players to deal with.

[Spacedaisy]

big brain theory is that chop and daisy are both enclave.

That is a big brain theory. But neither Chop nor Daisy are the kind to come up with a strategy this sneaky, which means there is a mastermind directing this sequence of events from BTSC. Esooa could, I could, neither of us are Enclave. Mac could be the mastermind, but it doesn't suit his style to go full Light Yagami in scum chat and afk in the thread.

Who do you think is the mastermind if this is true? I lean towards it not being true and Daisy just being town. The mix of paranoia and emotion in her post was struck very precisely, and it is not easy to fake.

I don't believe it's true.

but i could see lc pulling something like that. maayyyyybe epi or dom. it's got a very old school syndicate feel.

but i'm not seriously entertaining the theory.

if it's got an old school syndicate feel that I'd also have to include daisy's name on the list. let's not assume she's not a capable schemer.

Aw shucks

Here I was a bit disappointed that the new people don’t have the frame of reference to think I’m sneaky.

Regardless of that, you are speculating about who is bad based upon a bunch of things needing to be true.

ChopChop must be Enclave
I must also be Enclave
Someone else is a mastermind Enclave.

It’s silly because the premise falls apart with the fact that I am not Enclave.

Also I don’t trust you anymore.

... daisy i was not actually entertaining these thoughts. I made that very clear from the beginning. I was just playing along with a thought exercise.

Fair enough, but I don’t trust you because I read your ISO before I went to bed last night. I have concerns about you.

[Marmot]

damn Marmot is a wolf

No friend, that alignment belongs to you

stop it ground squirrel man

See! I'm a ground squirrel not a wolf. There's a significant difference.

[Marmot]

Spacedaisy also has concerns about Sloonei. She's probably town too.

[Marmot]

Anyway, Sloonei and ChopChop are wolves. Still like 13 more pages of catchup.

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

[Marmot]

Awkward timing, but I was going to say Sloony is super town

Ah trying to go for the pocket I see.

Sloonei's coming under heat, and this is what Chop has to say in response to it. Shading a player who states a townread of Sloon

[Marmot]

20 caps to anyone who tells me about 1 thing that happened during day 1 or 0, even without any context

The person that got eliminated soft defended me by voting Tony who was voting me.

Someone told me that ChopChop is kinda new to the game, but I gotta say, his jargon is on point.

[Marmot]

If Sloonei is mafia, then KZA is probably town. Sloonei was pushing hard enough for KZA's head D1, that it's probably not teammie.

[Marmot]

hot take

Chop Chop & Jack are tvt

I'm decently sure I can be confident on Chop Chop being town because I have recent experiences and meta on him, and some of his interactions here line up with what town-play developments I've been seeing from him lately.

If you're expecting him to be an amazing town or someone who will check all the boxes then you're making the wrong evaluation on him. Besides all that meta stuff, he *is* new to this community and I think the way he started interacting early with emoticons was town-indicative. If he were any sort of scum I would see more hesitancy or just lesser use of emoticons.

Now I don't wish to justify his progression (as pointed out by marmot) for him, but if ChopChop is who he is as town there should be a decent reason. I don't know if he'll give that answer or something else, but I really fail to see how he is >rand scum here with my knowledge of him so far.

Jack I've concluded is probably town earlier, though I haven't really looked at their scum-play very much in past games.

This is where Martin defended ChopChop. It was a meta defense, but I misremembered what he said. Fact check: ChopChop is not new to mafia, just new to this community.

[Sloonei]

If Sloonei is mafia, then KZA is probably town. Sloonei was pushing hard enough for KZA's head D1, that it's probably not teammie.

Oh my god

[Marmot]

If Sloonei is mafia, then KZA is probably town. Sloonei was pushing hard enough for KZA's head D1, that it's probably not teammie.

Oh my god

gesundheit

[Marmot]

(am I wrong though)

[Kylemii]

oof oof oof oof. I forgot. if you put off catching up it becomes harder to catch up

[Sloonei]

(am I wrong though)

Yes.

[Kylemii]

[VOTE: rej] aubergine

I'm gonna just start throwing out punches and kicks and see what happens

[Marmot]

oof oof oof oof. I forgot. if you put off catching up it becomes harder to catch up

You could try not catching up and just making uninformed decisions.

[Kylemii]

oof oof oof oof. I forgot. if you put off catching up it becomes harder to catch up

You could try not catching up and just making uninformed decisions.

all of my decisions are uninformed decisions

[Kylemii]

head empty, heart full

[TonyStarkPrime]

this is insane