Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Esooa]

or straw too tbh

[Hally]

honestly though this game is still fucked that I am considering straw

I don't really think it's hally just because I've liked them all game and specifically the way they waited for the flip for two hours feels like town? I thought it was funny and probably towny they left so soon after the flip too

wait lmao @Hally

what if Michelle was convinced I was 3p and shot me scared I'd win

it’s possible

[Esooa]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

[Hally]

what the fuck kind of fake claim is “i’m a ufo that can’t be killed and my vote doesn’t count and i don’t count for parity and i can abduct people”

who comes up with that

[Hally]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

i mean, if she’s got a red check on you she obviously would read you as a wolf lol

[Esooa]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

i mean, if she’s got a red check on you she obviously would read you as a wolf lol

I think this game is fucked enough that she should know mechanics aren't fully reliable

and she also red checked straw

so, I disagree that's the only reason

[Esooa]

I'm fr sleeping now. I really really need to

[Hally]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

i mean, if she’s got a red check on you she obviously would read you as a wolf lol

I think this game is fucked enough that she should know mechanics aren't fully reliable

and she also red checked straw

so, I disagree that's the only reason

well yea, it’s bizarre as fuck that she hasn’t questioned why she’s alive or if that means her peeks can’t be trusted

and it’s not inspiring that she can’t really give an answer to why you’d leave her alive to red check her that makes any sense

[Hally]

I'm fr sleeping now. I really really need to

gn

sleep well

[Hally]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

i mean, if she’s got a red check on you she obviously would read you as a wolf lol

I think this game is fucked enough that she should know mechanics aren't fully reliable

and she also red checked straw

so, I disagree that's the only reason

well yea, it’s bizarre as fuck that she hasn’t questioned why she’s alive or if that means her peeks can’t be trusted

and it’s not inspiring that she can’t really give an answer to why you’d leave her alive to red check her that makes any sense

to red check you, not her

[Hally]

i need to retire

[Hally]

inb4 michelle claims it was all a reaction test

[Hally]

michelle’s posts today feel wolfier than esooa’s by a long shot so if i was going off just today i’d vote michelle

i’ll have to read their iso’s tomorrow and see though

[Michelle]

like if we lunched esooa and she’s a wolf and then didn’t die at what point is that just a broken game and not our fault

there’s only so much bs that we can reasonably be expected to account for

1 shot lynch proof is NAI in a Nova game, i can link you games offsite
There is no way she is unlynchable again and she is checked scum

[Michelle]

inb4 michelle claims it was all a reaction test

No, if Straw is inded miller, there is no way we have 2 millers in the game, i have guilty result for both but if they were 2 wolves alive game would end.

They are either scum of different factions or Straw is miller and Esooa is scum.

What do you see wolfy in my posts?

[Michelle]

I hope I've not made you stressed or anything @Hally

I'm just really mrrrrrrr

and also I deferred to you if you wanted to vote straw because yeah I don't know

@Hally this is pure pocketing, she was treating bad everyone who wanted to interact with her for days but now she is treating you in a flattering way, she only wants to obtain your vote.
If you fell for this tactic, you give her the win, but town will loose

Why is today the first day she cares about the game?

[Michelle]

I hope I've not made you stressed or anything @Hally

I'm just really mrrrrrrr

and also I deferred to you if you wanted to vote straw because yeah I don't know

@Hally this is pure pocketing, she was treating bad everyone who wanted to interact with her for days but now she is treating you in a flattering way, she only wants to obtain your vote.
If you fell for this tactic, you give her the win, but town will loose

Why is today the first day she cares about the game?

Ebwop

[Michelle]

like if we lunched esooa and she’s a wolf and then didn’t die at what point is that just a broken game and not our fault

there’s only so much bs that we can reasonably be expected to account for

If you explain me my red check on Esooa, other than she is scum, i am willing to listen

[Michelle]

I do agree Michelle has done some really questionable things as wolf... I don't think it's impossible? I've disliked a lot from her especially the way she's treating me today but she's someone I often clash with as t/t tbh

how do you think town Michelle would be reading me right now?

i mean, if she’s got a red check on you she obviously would read you as a wolf lol

I think this game is fucked enough that she should know mechanics aren't fully reliable

and she also red checked straw

so, I disagree that's the only reason

well yea, it’s bizarre as fuck that she hasn’t questioned why she’s alive or if that means her peeks can’t be trusted

and it’s not inspiring that she can’t really give an answer to why you’d leave her alive to red check her that makes any sense

Hally, KZA said we have to lynch Esooa, next day KZA was dead.
She pretended she accepts the lynch yesterday. Why? Probably because before lylo/mylo she was unlychable, idk
You said last night that the game doesn't end, so she thought you can protect me probably because killing the cop is what mafia would do, so she thought differently and tried to kill you. Or she tried to kill me but i have a protection i don't know about.
Either way, i didn't receive the first result that Nova said he sent me, and he resent it when i asked for it. One of us has a protection we are unaware of, and we should ask for this, maybe we have a PM we didn't receive.

I think the way Esoos treats you is like she knows you are villager.

Idk what makes you town read her today, but her play is not a townie behaviour.

[Michelle]

why does nobody have any thoughts on the super kill failing

how did that happen again

I have no clue how

my only thought is I'm going to lose my mind if I was targeted

it's not the first time a super kill failed either

but shrugze

why would you be targeted when the last wolf knows you’re unkillable?

why not target me?

that's why I'm saying I'd lose my mind if it was me lmao but I have no clue what else does it

You are red checked missy, you are scum

so it's straw

You recognise that I am villager, cop with 2 red checks on you and Straw.
Why are you voting me then?

[Michelle]

I see you are not voting me, you only want Hally to vote for me.

This is interesting @Esooa, care to explain?

[Michelle]

@Hally this is one game i skimmed and noticed how town Esooa practically gave up as villager.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... KLE-WIN%29

And this is her last game in the database, she was mafia.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Yet-Mafia

I don't want to comment, i let you skimm/read and judge

[Michelle]

Hally, if you are into meta dive :

A recent 'normal' game (as size, because as setup was not normal), bonus Esooa was scum. Other than that I played 3 mashes so meta would not be relevant
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ripleHaven
My last finished game at Colosseum
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/ ... day-4.544/
I am sorry, i am only town this year, but this is the way I am playing, if you consider my straightforward posts are bad, I habe nothing to say.

[Michelle]

I need someone to talk.

[Strawhenge]

I need someone to talk.

Good morning, I'm working on a post.

[Strawhenge]

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday, it was a busy one.

[Michelle]

It's ok you're here now

[Michelle]

I need someone to talk.

Good morning, I'm working on a post.

Good morning!

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Alison has hard-vouched for Oddmerta. Folks who have voted for him should speak about that.

What has Alison done to receive our vote of confidence to listen to her vote of confidence on odd?

That all depends upon your view of Alison. Do you view her as a suspect or as a town read or as something else?

Spoiler: show

Falcon, Odd, Sloonei, Strawhenge, Jay, Mac are the townreads I feel okay about.

Esooa, SPF, fingersplints are lesser townreads.

JPIC is my strongest scumread atm but that's not saying much.

Maybe Oddmerta got exactly what he wanted by opposing civilian Sloonei.

I'm dropping the shield on Oddmerta. He's probably my strongest townread right now.

I also town-read oddmerta, but I think he's being rather silly.

He is but in a townie way.

Town: JJJ, MacDougall, Nanook, Oddmerta, Sloonei, Strawhenge, falcon45ca

[VOTE: Oddmerta ] aubergine

no

Oddmerta is town. Do not vote him. Trust me on this.

@Long Con, @Esooa, @tedxtr, @BoKnows -- please tell me how you feel about the contents of the spoiler above. Thanks.

I don't really feel any particular way about it

JPIC is reading more of the thread than he lets on which is generally towny from quote unquote LHF slots.

what?

The wolf of those three would be SPF I think, Sloonei

gonna have to explain this

the spf scum reads are bad, and I'm pretty inclined to believe one of them are mafia for that

anyways [VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Honestly I can't really parse this rn. I'm not gonna catch up until later

tutuu in the last page feels scummy

tutuu in the last page feels scummy

Hey @Esooa, since you're here, can I ask about your immediate bandwagon vote on Oddmerta following tedxtr's vote? Felt very scummy to me. What were you up to there?

I just wanted to vote someone to get stuff going.

tutuu in the last page feels scummy

Hey @Esooa, since you're here, can I ask about your immediate bandwagon vote on Oddmerta following tedxtr's vote? Felt very scummy to me. What were you up to there?

I just wanted to vote someone to get stuff going.

Now that stuff is going, are you sticking with that vote? Why/why not?

No. I moved onto TSP. I didn't like TSP's posts in pages 33-36, and I thought Oddmertas were ~fine

I think tutuu and spf are both scummy, but I'm having trouble with a world where they're teammates.

post

I took Bo's Iso, he doesn't talk about Esooa in the first 2 pages of his Iso, but i found the post where Jay tagged her and I wanted to check her answer.
Nothing that she posted was AI or game solving, and she didn't realy interact with someone.

This is not like town Esooa, even in the game where I said she threw the game, she had logical reads and a nice thread presence. In this game she was rejecting interactions.

Can you tell me why is this difference in your play Esooa?

[Strawhenge]

I swear this post is almost done, Michelle. It's a long one.

[Strawhenge]

Maybe it's the fatigue talking, but this is the most baffling day so far in this game.

1. The Failed Super-Kill
Occam's Razor is that Esooa's tree stump claim is true, and scum tested that, meaning that the final scum is Hally or Michelle. A tinfoily-but-not-impossible alternative is that Esooa targeted herself to make it look like scum tried to kill her. If she's not a true stump and was only 1-shot unchoppable, I can imagine someone doing this as insurance that they wouldn't be chopped today. I can't really imagine anything other than those two options. Well, I can, but it's like a tinfoil hat on the tinfoil head of a tinfoil person in a tinfoil world.

2. Hold Up, Is Michelle Scum?
Despite previous nervousnesses, my bottom line on Michelle has hitherto been that she is not only town but a true, sane cop. First she red-peeked me, which confirmed either that she can see alignment or roles, then she red-peeked Bo, and he flipped scum. Those two things are more than enough for me to fully believe that she's a town cop. Not only that, but the latter half of the game and these past couple day phases especially, Michelle has read as nothing but supertown to me. Genuine scumhunting, well-formed reads, the whole package. I would be in awe if she flipped scum. Like, I would want her to somehow put her autograph on a siren.gif so I could hang it on my wall.

Is it possible that she purposefully bussed BoKnows when she didn't have to? Is it possible she's a scum rolecop who found out I was a miller? Of course it's possible. A good chunk of my case against Odd was that he bussed Bo when he didn't have to, and I've personally won a scum game by doing the same. Do I think this is likely? I really don't.

3. The Esooa Issue-a
Michelle was not the first to point out that Esooa's attitude towards this game, and towards anyone asking her questions, could be described as uncooperative, irreverent, or even vaguely hostile. Now, I've known players in the past who have very similar playstyles, such that doing so is NAI for me. However, when it suddenly becomes a very real possibility that Esooa will get chopped again, she posts more active discussion (i.e. not spam à la D5, or just saying 'who cares lol') on D10 than she has since D2. I counted. It's weird to me that a so-claimed tree stump who has voiced disinterest so many times would suddenly care about finding the last scum.

Unless requested, I won't post the actual breakdown of her post-count, because I don't want this to be misconstrued as being suspicious of a low-poster. The brief overview is almost half of her current post count from D0-D2, significantly less until D5 when everyone was posting spam and going crazy over the fingersplints outing, 8 posts on D7 when we chopped her but only one of those posts addressing her wagon (note the nonchalance), then 63 posts so far today—which is almost as many as she made D6-N9. And to reiterate, it's not just the count of the posts, but the content. She got involved here and there with discussing the game, but whenever the discussion turned to her, it was almost like someone flipped her give-a-fuck switch to OFF.

Until D10. Huh.

The only issue that gives me slight pause is the failed super-kill and her tree stump claim. I feel like if there was no NK, nova would not have posted that a kill was attempted. The only reasonable explanation for Esooa being scum would be that she self-targeted the NK. That would mean a) she knew that she would survive because she's also un-KN-able (even if x-shot), and/or b) scum NKs fail if they are self-targeted, and she knew that.

Is it tinfoily? Yeah, but not unreasonably. As I've said before, I've seen scum carry out insane gambits in the past. Doing anything similar to what I've described is well within the bounds of possibility.

4. But What About Hally, Though?
This one is short. Hally has given me no indication that she's scum, though I am concerned about this Michelle vote. She just says that Michelle's posts 'suck' today, and then leaves her vote on her. Which apparently counts double? That's concerning but doesn't quite give me scum vibes.

Is it possible she's a secret deepwolf who has been fooling us the whole time? If she's the talented player I have observed and who others have said she is, yeah, that's possible. Do I think it's the case here? No.

[Strawhenge]

[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

[Michelle]

Thanks JPIC. I’d be interested to hear more about Esooa, tedxtr, and TSP in particular.

Esooa - insistence on questioning people that townreads them makes me townread them unironically. Most mafia would take the free read then challenge it

ted - defended me in thread so it could be a bad read by me and he has pocketed me. However, i contrast his two games of his from my memory. In GoC, he tried to take charge and and wasn’t really suspected all game only for mech to out him. In MtG, he was heavily sussed all game and was a misyeet pretty early. I feel like it’s the same here

Tsp - gut read but the exchange with him and odd was peculiar a couple of pages which I didn’t really understand. His read on you which fingersplints brought up implied he had a bigger read on marmot than just null

Mafia JPIC town reading Esooa. He could do it for a partner, because he bussed pretty heavily Bo

@Justplayingitcool quick, top four town and top three mafia go go go GO GO GO HURRY

Town:
JJJ
Straw
Esooa
Ted

Mafia:
BoKnows
Oddmerta
TSP

idk if you can tell be straw and esooa are bolded

That was unintentional

No that was me asking you about your Straw and Esooa reads

Ah, well ive explained the esooa read already.

Strawhenge was a soul read. Pretty townie entrances every time he has showed up to the thread

Soul read.. Uh. Another TMI-like read
Is a curious day today, when these 2 slots that were bolded by Bo back then are red checked and we play the last day with both of them

But i have a post i keep finding whenever i am randomly digging the thread:

Strawhenge is my top civilian read.

This is the post who put in my brain the doubt of Straw being mafia long time ago in the game.
Without Nanook I would probably not check Straw.

[Michelle]

About Hally, i took Nanook's read as granted and i didn't want to think very much at her alignament after he said she is villager and after he was night killed.

I found a flip flop read for JPIC made by Tutuu, who made me think tutuu was never mafia with JPIC, i can search for it if needed. She said he's mafia and within few posts she TR him. Mafia is never so fluid in reads. But town tutuu is.

Whether Nanook and my impression of tutuu are correct or not, i will not vote today other player than Esooa, because nothing can explain the red check, except she is scum.

[Michelle]

Straw, I as Esl i am admiring how good you put the Esooa activity report in words, better than i could ever do it.

[Strawhenge]

Straw, I as Esl i am admiring how good you put the Esooa activity report in words, better than i could ever do it.

Thank you I'm glad it came off clearly. I often worry my writer brain makes things too complicated, especially in mafia games.

[Hally]

the key to this game imo is figuring out what happened with the kill and why michelle is still alive

[Strawhenge]

the key to this game imo is figuring out what happened with the kill

Per my post (which is long, I know), the easiest answer is that the NK was aimed at Esooa. If Esooa is scum, it means she self-targeted to make it look like someone other than her is the last scum. And if she's town, that just means it really was someone other than her.

An even more tinfoily option is that someone who's not Esooa knew that self-targeted NKs would deliver a 'failed kill attempt' result, and aimed it at themselves to make it look like the kill was on Esooa, but I can't put together why a non-Esooa player would do that.

and why michelle is still alive

If Michelle is scum, the answer is simple. If she's town, the following options for the last scum are simply roles that do not fear a cop:

• A godfather or some other similar PR who knows they will be green-peeked

• A second redirector who can divert all cop checks to someone else

• An x-shot tree stump who can point to a failed chop as plausible deniability for their scumhood

• None of the above, but someone who believes they can confidently talk a cop out of believing their own check in a role madness game

At this point in the game, seeing all the roles that have flipped, any of those can be possible.

[Hally]

no wolf is ever self targeting with an nk when they could get a free win by shooting me lol

either the kill failed because someone has some unknown protection (and anyone can be the wolf) or it failed because esooa was shot out of fear she’s 3P who would steal the win from the last wolf

[Hally]

If Michelle is scum, the answer is simple. If she's town, the following options for the last scum are simply roles that do not fear a cop:
A godfather or some other similar PR who knows they will be green-peeked
A second redirector who can divert all cop checks to someone else
An x-shot tree stump who can point to a failed chop as plausible deniability for their scumhood
None of the above, but someone who believes they can confidently talk a cop out of believing their own check in a role madness game
At this point in the game, seeing all the roles that have flipped, any of those can be possible.

not really. some are not possible:

- it can’t be a godfather because that wouldn’t explain the red check on esooa. a godfather would only explain greenchecks

- a redirector is possible but that would have to be exactly you because everyone knows what my role is and i don’t have a redirect, and w!esooa is obviously not redirecting michelle to herself

- i think the tree-stump thing is silly because no wolf is going to consciously choose to fight a red check regardless of the circumstance and suggesting they would when they could kill michelle instead is... no

- again this is ridiculous because no wolf will choose to talk themselves out of a red check when they could instead just not

so really none of these are possible except you being a wolf redirector who redirected michelle to yourself so esooa would get a red peek, and obviously that’s impossible fypov

[Hally]

the real answer is that straw is the last wolf and didn’t care about leaving michelle alive because he’s already been redchecked or has an ability that messes with the cop so he tried to kill esooa because he was scared she’s 3P that would steal his win

[Hally]

straw did you send anyone a typewriter?

also do we know where bo’s pills came from? those are confirmed to exist, right?

[Hally]

i’m taking it as a given that the last wolf can mess with investigatives in some way because marmot’s team had multiple roles that could do that and the only thing that flipped on the other team is bo’s roleblock which imo is lopsided

[Hally]

@Marmot [Joe Bulo] has been eliminated.

"Management says acquire the territory, we acquire it. Whether that's cash down or sending bodies to the morgue, that's up to the Krauts"
Joe Bulo

[Passive] - The frontman for the Kansas City Mafia northern expansion, Joe’s bringing a Walmart mentality to small-town America. As the new face of corporate crime, Joe doesn't get his own hands dirty. He scans as [Innocent] to cops. [Redacted]. He is immune to any other actions as long as one of his enforcers is alive.
--- [Joe Bullo Says Hi] - Factional kills performed by him are upgraded to a super-kill. [1-shot]

[Passive] - Joe runs a tight ship. If one of his men puts his operation in jeopardy, he doesn't hesitate in taking their arms or their tongues. If one of his underlings dies, he may redistribute their abilities to another one or use them himself.

[Active] - As the specialist in negotiations of his team, Joe may each day invite a player for a chat the following night. They will gain a private chat during the night phase, and he will learn their flavor name at the end of it. If he chats with the same player twice, he will learn their full role.
--- [Cease-Fire] - Any player currently in a chat with Joe will have their actions fail if they target one of his team.

Wincon - Eliminate all threats to the Kansas City Mafia

Night 1 starts.
You have 23 hours to submit your actions (if any).

doesn’t marmot’s role literally confirm there’s a town alignment cop? so michelle is never a wolf

boom

[Hally]

well there’s a redacted part but like

it plainly says he scanned innocent to cops

and michelle is claiming cop who gets innocent/guilty results so that checks out

so michelle is never a wolf

[Strawhenge]

That's what I'm saying. I never doubted she was a cop, especially after she red-peeked my miller card.

[Hally]

[VOTE: straw] aubergine

[Strawhenge]

And no I didn't send a typewriter last night. Honestly didn't think it mattered after one finally got through to you, and you posted through nova.

[Hally]

That's what I'm saying. I never doubted she was a cop, especially after she red-peeked my miller card.

okay but

if michelle isn’t a wolf and esooa was targeted for the kill

then the only one left who can be the wolf is you

[Strawhenge]

[VOTE: straw] aubergine

It's not me, Hally.