Modern Family Hydra Mafia [GAME END]

[Mana]

Is it mech optimal to just ask everyone to claim whether or not they blocked Mana?

If nobody admits to it, then Mana is proven a liar since a wolf roleblocker would have targeted Walrus.

If Mana is a wolf and making up being blocked, they basically have to ask a teammate to claim to block them, which commits them to a claim early and potentially outs both if someone else can disprove the claim.

I mean if nobody claims to have blocked us directly we also have to consider the other options that either someone blocked someone else which BT then redirected to us, or BT redirected actions on you to us which included our own action which could have caused it to fail. but none of this really helps us until BT claims who they redirected the actions from.

[trans rights]

i do think tspic coming to the conclusion that two and through are probably a wolf is villagery. if two and through are actually a villager the message they exchanged with toopy said so little that it probably wasn't indicative of anything. to be fair, they were responding to someone that was claiming traitor to them, but if they know they're lying anyways why not give them a legacy at minimum? it's a good enough point to where a wolf would probably try muddying information more than that.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

but obviously we didnt use it on walrus otherwise mana would have gotten deaded

Why would a wolf roleblocker not block Walrus?

[trans rights]

on top of that, their prior read on two and through is also a good look in tandem with that. if they were a wolf they would have no reason to flip on their read like that, especially since it's still slightly unclear what two and through's alignment was.

[Toopy and Binoo]

katze is posting like ted in GoC tbh tbh

im taking this as a compliment despite it being obviously shade

and im pretty sure insomnya would cry at the prospect of being compared to me in any capacity

you assume... redirection? why do you assume i'm even real?

i'll clarify on this because i think it's one of the more damning parts of the post

we are a slot in PoE

they are also a slot in PoE

if, for some reason, they are a villager, and their first thought is "wow, we must have been redirected by Bottom Text"

where is the spark of "holy shit, their claim is probably real, the PoE might just be wrong"

there isn't one

because they don't think like a villager

okay maybe this is gonna sound bad but we did discuss how this makes you probably town in our hydra chat, and I asked if we should take it to the thread since you were getting heat and made said yes but maybe not right away so we can try and learn something from the people pushing you. I've never played a closed game before or a game with roleclaiming allowed/encouraged so im rly just following his lead here.

my first thought was "oh man our action failed " and then you said we were one of your targets so my second thought was "maybe that's related to why our action failed". has anyone claimed to block us directly yet? that's definitely also an option, but I'm still quite a few pages behind

if anything, your result just means katze is a roleblocker and not a redirector

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

Vote H&V instead.
They both lovers so vote the one that’s most suspicious!

[Toopy and Binoo]

-Tooopy

[Toopy and Binoo]

My guess is if T&T were actual Mafia then that would mean Vanalizer isn’t possible in this setup and I made a boo boo on that.

-Toopy

[Toopy and Binoo]

Either that or Mafia already has one lol.

-Toopy

[Poop Explosions]

Would I be going out on a limb by saying that if TAT had a passive janitor ability, they wouldn't get bussed?

[Akemi Hazelnut]

mech is boring just vote for wolfy ppl lol

[Timsup2gettinserious]

My guess is if T&T were actual Mafia then that would mean Vanalizer isn’t possible in this setup and I made a boo boo on that.

-Toopy

this is silly and i don't know why you keep circling back around to this

you fake-claimed traitor with a vanillizer one-shot to TaT

what relevance does the bastard quality of vanillizer have

why does it matter if it's "possible" in this setup

it's not real

you made it up

[Timsup2gettinserious]

i am surrounded by wolves

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Also,
Julinook/Akemi/Mana probably contains the 3rd scum unless TAT was actual scum and knew I was fake because I said I had vanalizer and it can’t be in play or something.

incredible. every time I'm blown away by the new heights reached.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

If I had a loverizer one shot that worked like that I would probably just not use it and play as a VT.

I think the question we should ask ourselves is what would a scum loverizer do

i think exactly what they did but tbh i don't remember which one is which

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Literally being scum read based off a TR of HV and being told "no, that's not why".



Yes it is, and it's silly. Ridiculous even.

You're being scum read for the slightly opportunistic vote and your reasoning behind it. It's not that ridiculous.

It is. You're assuming HK is town. That's ridiculous.


BK read a post as having TMI. You don't have to agree with his reasoning, but to call it opportunistic when he made a legit read is disingenuous.

this makes me feel like falcon is a wolf and knows that the other slot is a wolf and is upset they're not getting town credit for the bus

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

mech is boring just vote for wolfy ppl lol

good thank you

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

alison/nutella is probably right and if town isn't lying. if no one claims to have blocked mana i see no particularly good reason why we shouldn't chop mana.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

i also think the disassociative between fk/mana is decently strong tbh

[trans rights]

i'd rather kill falconknows over mana at this rate.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Hi, I'm here now. :P

- Hyena

[Timsup2gettinserious]

BT's 4 voters - Akemi Hazelnut, Mana, trans rights, TwoAndThrough
Mana's 3 voters - Julinook, TonyStarkPlaysItCool, Poop Explosions
TwoAndThrough's 4 voters - Timsup2gettinserious, Toopy and Binoo, Honey & Vinegar, Bottom Text
TSPIC voter - The Walrus
No voters - Falcon

Hmmm. The Walrus then dies? Only voter on the TSPIC wagon. Probably never a wolf kill they would make it's too obvious.
Mana wagon is very pure.
But Mana is voting for BT in a tie. If Mana wagon is pure >rand wolf and that means their vote is >rand on a town.
So if Mana is a wolf, and TAT WAS a wolf, then the other teammate is probably either trans rights or Akemi Hazelnut, or an absent FalconKnows I guess?
But Akemi Hazelnut is currently operating inside that very POE so it's almost certainly not them. Trans Rights also playing the POE game in a tight window.
Makes me think TAT is always a wolf. Which strongly clears all the TAT voters. But then why did none of them die? Why kill The Walrus? Perhaps @Bottom Text did you actually get an action in?

Doesn't QUITE stack up. So what if TAT AND BT are both town. The janitoring might be a passive (no flips til you die) wolf role maybe.
Mana wolf equity is through the roof no matter what. I take TSPIC and Julinook as town for it. I take the kill as pure wifom. I take the mafia teammates of mana to be probably Falcon and ONE active wolf in this case.
I think this makes the most sense. Falcon + someone getting more townreads, that isn't on the Mana wagon. I feel like ... Timsup2gettingserious profiles.

So, I talked to Syn, and he's okay with me revealing what happened to us last night.

H&V loverized us last night. We've got a lover chat with them right now. I've been going back and forth whether I fully trust them or not because I don't understand why they thought we wouldn't be considered a potential NK after the amount of townreads we got D1?

Would have prefered you spoke to us first tbh

Sorry. I'm a bit impulsive. ;-;

- Hyena

[Poop Explosions]

We have two clears based on people getting overconfident on mech/angleshooty stuff, and I'd lock both of them in if I didn't just watch a bunch of the people in this list get snowed by Ran doing the exact same thing in CoV. Wanna figure out exactly how solid we are on them.

Personally I'm more confident in Syn by far, with how he instantly pulls out the red yarn and starts building conspiracy maps. I think that combined with the general subtlety of his play simply isn't a LAMIST towncred gambit. Syn simply isn't LAMIST.

I'm a lot more wary with Urist. Mac said that if Urist's town meta is tunneling, that would be his scum meta too. What makes me want to townread his thing in the first place is the sheer absurdity of his point. His flavor is thematic, therefore everyone's flavor must be thematic, therefore the janitor must be Phil because he's a "magician", even though he thinks that the janitor was a passive ability? What the fuck? So many layers to it.

Never going for either of them today anyway so it's not urgent.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

yeah you caught me good job

no, don't play this game with me

im genuinely flabbergasted

that you think

i, katze, a mechanical mastermind (as per vanity), the best wolf on FoL (citation needed), the cutest player in the game (as per Esooa), the smartest person in their own room (citation needed, the chair might compete), am a wolf roleblocker who roleblocked mana (who, in this world, is a villager, which i have doubts on) instead of literally anyone fucking else (which would imply that my teammates agreed with this roleblock, but also killed the D1 Vig claim, and when pressured to claim, instead of claiming town roleblocker with a n1 on mana (which is a very fucking villagery action), i claim to

1. have misread my abilities in a way that explains my D1 play perfectly
2. be an idiot
3. be a cat
4. be essentially a one-way bus driver

what sense does this make

Being a hyena is better than being a cat, for the record.

Also, why are you trolling my hydra partner here? :P

- Hyena

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

I'm assuming that since our chat is named "LOVERS" and since Urist told us that we were loverized with them now that we are, indeed, loverized.

- Hyena

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

hmm

another question to hyena/syn

were you told that you were loverized specifically by H&V or did they tell you

dunia told us we were loverized

but urist confirmed their hydra was the one who did it. i asked him and he said yes.

so we weren't loverized by someone outside the two slots. urist and mantis picked us specifically

Did you get put into a chat together? What do you mean by Urist confirmed? Why would they need to confirm it was them if you were forcibly added into a chat

Yes, us and H&V (well, just Urist actually since the other hydra half never showed up) were put into a chat together.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

FK seems a bit opportunistic tbh

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the FK push and think they've looked much worse today. And it's making me get cold feet on the H&V wagon a little.

Everyone in Mana/H&V/FK triangle is acting scummy and bizarre but the associatives are such that they can't all be scum.

So, like, here's the deal. Aside from getting loverized with/by them and being sketched out by it, I don't really scumread H&V. As I said D1, everyone practically ignored them, and, like, it seemed kinda towny to me based on that gamestate at that time, if that makes any sense? Don't really know how to put it in better words.

Compare that to FK, who I explicitly asked questions about D1 about what they were doing since it seemed they were posting but not really doing anything.

Mana actually approached me with questions about stuff I said/did, and I liked it, so I had them as town, too, D1.

Out of the three, I'd definitely go after FK first.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

I take that back. Looks like I did townread them briefly early on:

if you're gonna sign of ur posts please don't do code names. keeping up on who's who is already confusing enough.

First townie found

lol, mindmeld

-Hyena

Of course, after that, I just continually call them out for doing nothing:

this is me open wolfing

Considering that most of your posts before this one were, like, one-worded posts, I actually think I believe you. :3

I've noticed FalconKnows posting, but I don't think I've read anything they've said.

What have they been doing all day?

- Hyena

(okay, I'm gone now till EoD)

I don't recall getting any sort of response from anyone about the 2nd post.

- Hyena

[Timsup2gettinserious]

This is the post I was talking about from Mana where they approached me with a question about something:

Syena, why is TT scum?

TT is Tim and HK, right? Syn hasn't explained to me yet why he think they are scum, but the push on them was genuine.

Or rather, I haven't asked for an explanation yet. I've got my own process, and I haven't gotten to T&T yet.

And, I felt good enough about Mana D1 to include them in my "do not chop" list D1:

@Hyena please let me vote for TaT

I'm not caught up, but you can vote T&T! I don't have a strong preference at the moment who to go for.

Also, I can't post right now, buuuut I'll be around for EoD shenanigans. <3

- Hyena

All I ask is that for now, don't vote for Trans Rights or Nutella+Alison. :P

Probably not H&V either since it seemed like everyone was ignoring them, lol.

And if I were to be selfish, I'd probably keep Mana around too for today.

That's 4 hydras + us, right?

- Hyena

[trans rights]

im currently at like

lock v:
timsuptogettinserious
poop explosions
toopy and binoo

probably v:
akemi
julinook

shady claims (probably exactly 1 in here?):
honey and vinegar
bottom text

the rest (1-2 in here?):
tspic
mana
falconknows

and if these reads are accurate then two and through was probably just a hit, or the implication goes to tspic always wolf/deepwolf

need to mull this over to see if i'm really comfortable with it but i feel like i'm walking into a brick wall a bit solving-wise

[Timsup2gettinserious]

While I was looking for that Mana post, I also came across this post from Tony again:

i'm trying to think if i was a wolf how i would approach this position

because as a wolf sometimes i just do things because it would make me look good or because "why the hell not" sometimes. see, me defending hornet in pokemon black and white light game

c4 was pushing me as a wolf when i was pushing tim, but mac also called our slot "lack claire", which... it could be joking. i think that was more likely to be a real read from c4 than anything else, and i don't think wolves always make every post with their obvious agenda in mind.

like obviously two and through was taking massive heat. if they were a villager wolves would know that, but they would still want to look productive somehow. it's not completely absurd to me for wolves to ignore it and try doing something off the beaten path as opposed to grabbing a lawn chair and tanning.

Didn't you call me scum for TSP and myself disagreeing with the Mana read? Why is this different.

that was because i thought it could've been contrived hydra dissonance. doesn't really have anything to do with mana at all. as far as i know those two things aren't related.

C4 was wolf reading you. Mac was town reading you.

I was wolf reading Mana. TSP was townreading Mana.

It's similar imo. so im trying to understand the difference between the two?

I like this post, by the way. Specifically the intent to figure out the perceived difference between two things.

I never went back to read the context of it, but one of the things that I like to do when I'm trying to figure out someone's intentions is compare two things I perceive as similar but someone else is saying are different. I don't really see a whole lot of other people do it, and whenever I do, it's usually came from town. Thus, I'm kinda biased, but I townread Tony for this.

Right now, I think I want to go through Tony's and Mana's ISOs because they're in a similar position in my reads -- I townread them, but I haven't admitted been fully keeping up with what they've been saying/doing. Thus, I want to go read up on that to make sure I still want to townread them. If I do, I think I can put together a solid towncore without a lot of the people causing a ruckus in the game.

- Hyena

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hate that lock list ngl

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hate that lock list ngl

^ This post above was made by Syn.

I'm not going to process the list right this second, but I might later.

- Hyena

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

idk how you could group us with mana & fk who we have pushed this game

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hate that lock list ngl

^ This post above was made by Syn.

I'm not going to process the list right this second, but I might later.

- Hyena

this post above was made by hyena

[trans rights]

hate that lock list ngl

why?

i'm almost positive you're slot's a villager

i'm clearing poop explosions for mech/their push on me/general approach to this dayphase

and i'm clearing toopy and binoo for their claim because their interactions within it seem exceptionally genuine

i know you have some conflict with toopy and binoo but i'm like extremely confident they're a villager

[trans rights]

idk how you could group us with mana & fk who we have pushed this game

just because you pushed them doesn't mean you can't be wolves with them. do you believe you have some sort of clearing interactions with those slots? because i don't really buy what you're selling here

[Timsup2gettinserious]

By the way, who are the main pushers of Mana today? I want to see their arguments for why they're scumreading Mana so that I can compare them to what I'm seeing.

Also, are people pushing on Tony, too, right now? If so, I'd like the same information as above for them.

- Hyena

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

idk how you could group us with mana & fk who we have pushed this game

just because you pushed them doesn't mean you can't be wolves with them. do you believe you have some sort of clearing interactions with those slots? because i don't really buy what you're selling here

yes

[Timsup2gettinserious]

does anyone want to hear something kind of funny and also really sad

yes

people creating dichotomies between me and transrights when half of my read on them was exaggerated to kickstart the game out of RVS and i think theyre solidly above null right now

in that case, who would you like to bully instead?

i dont know i havent gotten that far ahead and esooa would rather call me cute than call people wolves

i remember the tim/hk slot writing a post that made me physically cringe though so i'm fine bullying them (they smell)

but given the obvious implication of this asking who i want to vote

idk but im not moving it off of transrights just to make a statement tbh

I'm totally down to bully Tim without voting him immediately.

I'll vote them for now tho, see if things go anywhere organically. If we play our cards right, maybe we can get HK to join us

@TwoAndThrough thoughts on bullying Tim?

I like this post. This is straight up how I'd approach Tim (and HK) about their thoughts about Bottom Text wanting to bully them. And I consider Mana a similar player to me.

- Hyena

[trans rights]

By the way, who are the main pushers of Mana today? I want to see their arguments for why they're scumreading Mana so that I can compare them to what I'm seeing.

Also, are people pushing on Tony, too, right now? If so, I'd like the same information as above for them.

- Hyena

i have more reasons to think tspic is a villager now than i did before, particularly with how they handled two and through's slot being janitored. i mostly have stronger reasons to clear other players, plus i think a lot of jpic's play can fit snuggly into the reasonable wolf archetype. tsp is a different story; it's more so that he's just... being tsp? which afaik i can't clear him for. i also have almost no experience with him, though.

i don't even really wolfread mana that much either. some of their posts are wolfy, but i don't come away from their iso with multiple reservations; only select posts that i find to either be sickeningly hedge-y or posts that don't display fluid train of thought, which i've noted back before.

[Toopy and Binoo]

Okay, finally done with work for the day and ready to start reading up! I'll be around for a while so feel free to ask me anything (although I don't know how much use that'll be if I'm like 15 pages behind lol)

- Binoo

[Akemi Hazelnut]

ftr i have a fairly confident townread on tspic at this point (and alison has them as town from mech/wagons as well)

i townread both of them correctly in vienna and they've gotten to that level in their posting imo

[Timsup2gettinserious]

(continuing Mana stuff)

I liked the interaction between T&T and Mana that followed that post I quoted in my previous post.

[VOTE: Mana] aubergine

Why?

Kinda felt you were coasting a bit and wanted to hear more of your general thoughts on the game so far

Well uh.. You could ask for those, no need to jump straight to voting bro. I haven't been around much so not many thoughts, mostly still trying to figure out the whole bottom text/trans rights situation. More thoughts will be had at a later time

I don't feel that Mana was coasting at the point Tony accused them of it. In fact, this accusation came AFTER the T&T and Mana interaction, which I felt was game-serving rather than just fluffing around.

However, the simple 'Why?' response to the vote kinda pings me? I feel like there's a dissonance between it and the general vibing they were doing beforehand.

[trans rights]

does anyone want to hear something kind of funny and also really sad

yes

people creating dichotomies between me and transrights when half of my read on them was exaggerated to kickstart the game out of RVS and i think theyre solidly above null right now

in that case, who would you like to bully instead?

i dont know i havent gotten that far ahead and esooa would rather call me cute than call people wolves

i remember the tim/hk slot writing a post that made me physically cringe though so i'm fine bullying them (they smell)

but given the obvious implication of this asking who i want to vote

idk but im not moving it off of transrights just to make a statement tbh

I'm totally down to bully Tim without voting him immediately.

I'll vote them for now tho, see if things go anywhere organically. If we play our cards right, maybe we can get HK to join us

@TwoAndThrough thoughts on bullying Tim?

I like this post. This is straight up how I'd approach Tim (and HK) about their thoughts about Bottom Text wanting to bully them. And I consider Mana a similar player to me.

- Hyena

that's actually one of the posts i had a problem with lmao. it was sickeningly hedge-y and could've easily been a bus vote. this opinion does have some value to me though.

[trans rights]

ftr i have a fairly confident townread on tspic at this point (and alison has them as town from mech/wagons as well)

i townread both of them correctly in vienna and they've gotten to that level in their posting imo

what is their favorable mech?

[Akemi Hazelnut]

ftr i have a fairly confident townread on tspic at this point (and alison has them as town from mech/wagons as well)

i townread both of them correctly in vienna and they've gotten to that level in their posting imo

what is their favorable mech?

not as much a direct mech thing but i think alison's reasoning was the reaction to toopy's claim (noting that tim's response looked real etc)

mightve been something else too idk

[Akemi Hazelnut]

what do you mean about jpic's play fitting a wolf archetype?

[trans rights]

ftr i have a fairly confident townread on tspic at this point (and alison has them as town from mech/wagons as well)

i townread both of them correctly in vienna and they've gotten to that level in their posting imo

what is their favorable mech?

not as much a direct mech thing but i think alison's reasoning was the reaction to toopy's claim (noting that tim's response looked real etc)

mightve been something else too idk

i townread them for the same reason but i wouldn't consider that to be "mech"

[Akemi Hazelnut]

sure, but it's a concrete detail with a similar weight in my mind

[Toopy and Binoo]

if we're playing the selfmeta game i'm like legitimately playing very different from any wolfgame ive ever played

still in range obviously cause im not actually doing anything but

Please don't play the selfmeta game; not only is it inaccurate, but your play should always be evolving so you should never use established meta as a crutch.

Screenshot_20210505-184755.pngScreenshot_20210505-184806.pngScreenshot_20210505-184812.png

Wearing out my scroll wheel can't stop me from playing the game lol

Two and through was prob just town tbqh

Why would you feel so strongly about town!T&T at this point in time (before we claimed)?