The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Master Radishes]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

[Timsup2nothin]

ok this is a bad read

More than just bad, tbh.

Look closer at Jack.

What bothered me about that read is that it is the kind of high level LAMIST play I know you are capable of.

"Mac and LC chaosed themselves, and that's towny of them" leads to the unspoken "and Jack also chaosed so he's town too." Your post there wasn't just bad, it was sneaky, and that was the first time I really had "holy cow Jack might really be woofin' here" concerns. It was just about end of twilight, if I remember right, and I just wanted to make sure in case I somehow died that there was a "look at Jack" on the record in my ISO.

I literally call the read stupid. How is that LAMIST?

Because it "being stupid" wasn't enough to have you keep it out of the thread. That's the point. You put into people's heads "gosh maybe going chaos is towny...hmmm." In heads where that takes root you create a town read for yourself.

Well thought out psychobabble is not and has never been a thing I do as a wolf.

I asked you what you thought wolf Jack was trying to do, there, pocket Mac? And I don’t remember you ever answering.

Youer suspicion of me feels all over the place and never fully pursued. It doesn’t feel like “I suspect Jack and should look closer at him and grill him to determine his alignment.” It feels like “Jack suspects me and maybe if I treat him with hostility, he’ll see that as townie and lay off.”

Ummmm....Jack, do you really think I have treated you with hostility?

That said, maybe I just don't have a strong suspicion of you? Could that maybe explain why I haven't pursued it?

[Master Radishes]

I remember liking Nacho's posts earlier, actually. But it was more of a general vibe thing. I wouldn't, like, hard defend the slot.

[Master Radishes]

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

[Timsup2nothin]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

I haven't read, I'm not gonna read....but sure I support this full on reads list order...

Radishes, is the only thing really attractive to you in this post the idea of killing Tim? Because frankly you look like a guy who really just wants to kill Tim here for some predetermined reason. If I hurt your feelings you should have said something in wolf chat, not just gone bus happy out of the blue.

[Gavial]

I love how Vulgard doesn’t even add me to his readslist.

[Vulgard]

The n2 kill, Syn, also scumreads Tim a lot throughout day 1.

Syn's EOD 1 scumreads are Falcon, Tim, Marmot and Scotty. They are all alive at this point. Can't imagine them all being mafia, because I assume a Syn kill would happen n1 in that case. But I assume he had to have been right about something. It's possible Nanook was the more appealing kill because he had a lot of correct townreads. But really, when you think about it, having accurate scumreads = having accurate townreads. Leads to the same outcome: wolves die.

D2 still thinks Falcon is a wolf. Scumreads Marmot as well. Scraps with Gavial for a bit but without scumreading him outright. Questions DaisyCloud a bit.

N2 legacy is Jack/Flanders (flipped V), pressure Gavial and Marmot. Fairly different reads from Nanook's, yet still within Nanook's PoE.

Noting that Syn was greenchecked n1 and could've been killed for that reason alone. He can't be misyeeted if he's greenchecked. That's why I'm putting a bit less stock in his ISO than in Nanook's.

[Vulgard]

Tim, if NANOOK was hard PoE day 1, then why does he only have one vote?

[Gavial]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

Explain why TF Tony’s above me after the way the ONLY flip scum treated my slot.

[Gavial]

@Jackofhearts2005

[Gavial]

Also Daisy is WAY TOO FUCKIN HIGH!

[Gavial]

Yeah I’m convinced!

[Gavial]

Scum team contains Daisy, Jack and prob Radish

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to 100% align my reads with dead villagers, we can all be wrong. But I'm trying to glean information from them.

And it's unquestionable that NANOOK has been correct about a lot of his townreads. A lot. A lot of the people he townread have either flipped V, or I townread them strongly. Or they are my slot (in the case of Enrique).

For him to have been vigged (unless his reads are super wrong and so are mine) would be an awful coincidence.

I feel like Tim's trying to snow me.

[Gavial]

Yo @Vulgard
Can you ISO Daisy and if you see what I’m seeing can you vote them instead of Falcon please!?

(TBF they could both be scum but I am GAing Falcon as I said to them Post Game)

[Gavial]

I'm not going to 100% align my reads with dead villagers, we can all be wrong. But I'm trying to glean information from them.

And it's unquestionable that NANOOK has been correct about a lot of his townreads. A lot. A lot of the people he townread have either flipped V, or I townread them strongly. Or they are my slot (in the case of Enrique).

For him to have been vigged (unless his reads are super wrong and so are mine) would be an awful coincidence.

I feel like Tim's trying to snow me.

Think Tim killed both Nanook and Mac.

[Vulgard]

Gavial. Again.

I scumread Daisy HARD at first. I even cased her. I'm not sure how you missed that, we talked about it between ourselves for an entire page.

But then she responded to my case, and that response was, without a doubt, villagery to the max. I can't push her in good faith given that response. If she's mafia, that's the best response to a case I have ever seen come from a wolf.

[Gavial]

@Timsup2gettinserious
Let’s not kill another Nanook please, let’s kill another Mac!

[Gavial]

Mac KNEW my reads were good!
That’s why he tried to discredit them!

@Vulgard

[Gavial]

Gavial. Again.

I scumread Daisy HARD at first. I even cased her. I'm not sure how you missed that, we talked about it between ourselves for an entire page.

But then she responded to my case, and that response was, without a doubt, villagery to the max. I can't push her in good faith given that response. If she's mafia, that's the best response to a case I have ever seen come from a wolf.

TBF Daisy is a good player regardless of alignment.
Can you quote me the response though?

[Gavial]

Actually Jack is better then Daisy today because if people still aren’t convinced Tim can never be Mafia, Jack flipping Mafia should prove this for sure!

[Master Radishes]

So uh. I'm feeling iffy on Falc.

He hasn't comment on me at all iirc and then came out with a strong town read on me due to meta. I prompted him to explain because I got pinged by how confident he was. (Keep in mind, btw, that he and I go back a couple years on CDC.)

It's in the way you ask questions and probe the game, your approach is def in your town meta. I mean, I guess you could be faking it, but I don't think that's the case here

That's...a pretty vague answer. It certainly doesn't make me think 'ah yeah, Falcon's got me nailed to a tee'. And that little 'I guess you could be faking but' line that's tagged on feels like it's meant to prevent anyone thinking it sounds TMI-level confident, rather than actually indicate real hesitation.

And, pre-empting my obvious follow-up, he reaches into my iso to illustrate his read.

So anyway, Tim is scum huh.

Nope, not this time. But you already knew that.

Eh. We'll see. You don't feel right. Your push on me feels inauthentic considering you've recently wolfed with me and saw how I operate.

This is towny MR

I think your reasons on Daisy are valid. Like the questions but no follow up and apathy towards wagons are definite scum behavioural tendencies.

But when she and Jack were bickering earlier it was one of the few events of the game I've been somewhat present for, and it felt quite t/t to me. I felt like the frustration and omgusing had a delicate hint of genuineness to them.

So I dunno. Despite the logic, I'm not convinced.

And this is towny MR

if you think that in this game we have drawn a scumteam with 0 slankers you will need to explain what makes that rational?

history speaks to the contrary. If anything the fact that we have chopped two slanky poos and missed makes the slanky poo pool more rich with floaters.

Not 0 slankers. Probably some.

But instead of firing blindly and lazily into the slanky pool let's do some actual work and find the active scum. And even if we miss we force said active scum to Do Stuff.

More towny MR

Those are...not great examples of 'the way you ask questions' or 'probing the game' tbh. They're very bland questions/reactions. They are at best mildly towny, but not 'strong meta read' towny. It kind of feels like he just picked out the first three 'questions/probings' that he spotted. Like how do these examples scream 'probing the game' to anyone? I'm not a great wolf, but I can fake posts like that no sweat.

As soon as I saw Falc's initial post I had one specific encounter in mind that I think is 'vintage slanky town MR' and Falc did not find it. (It was my initial response to Mac, fyi.) If he had given me that I might've given him a pass. Maybe.


tl;dr Falc's meta read is too strong based on his presented evidence of why he has it. It feels like a pocket attempt.

[Gavial]

Don’t worry Tim I can be your GA too!
Just like Falcon!

[Vulgard]

I'm not sure why I bother to engage with you when you're off in your own little world. So now Tim's a serial killer? Why are you assuming the 3p is an SK in the first place? The number of KP went 2-1-3. Doesn't HAVE to be a serial killer, although I agree it's somewhat likely.

Also, Gavial. Everyone discredits your reads because everybody knows they are awful. This is why you almost never get nightkilled. The only times you get nightkilled is when you're a town PR wolves want dead. Otherwise, you're +EV to keep alive because you push town for the majority of each game.

The reason you push town so much is because you get tunneled and your progression makes no sense. You're not evaluating. Your play is so chaotic and impulsive you get deceived by any calculated move a wolf makes. You harp on villagers who are doing their thing and never reevaluate them. When that villager dies, you move onto another.

Pinging people in every post won't make people listen to you more. Being more accurate, better at analysis, and less frustrating to deal with, will. You declared you'd RNG your reads on day 1 of this game; of course people would discredit them. Even without knowing your usual accuracy, they'd discredit them. You yourself admitted you would rely on RNG, which is <<<rand accuracy.

TL;DR Mac discrediting your reads means absolutely nothing about their accuracy. Everyone's been discrediting your reads because of the things you've done and the way you play.

[Master Radishes]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

Explain why TF Tony’s above me after the way the ONLY flip scum treated my slot.

Because I think he got a town role card.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

[Jackofhearts2005]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

Explain why TF Tony’s above me after the way the ONLY flip scum treated my slot.

Because you keep doing weird ass shit that idk what to do with.

[Vulgard]

Actually Jack is better then Daisy today because if people still aren’t convinced Tim can never be Mafia, Jack flipping Mafia should prove this for sure!

You also do THIS THING all the time. You preflip a bunch of people as a scumteam and want people to sheep you on it. The chances of you being correct are minuscule; no sane person would follow you on this.

Even when you get burned on this, time and time again, you keep doing it. You are the personification of the definition of insanity. What is that definition?

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

That's what you do. Every game.

[Vulgard]

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

Basically the same thing given how hard I townread Radishes.

I agree with his Falcon read, too.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually Jack is better then Daisy today because if people still aren’t convinced Tim can never be Mafia, Jack flipping Mafia should prove this for sure!

Tiny problem with this plan is I’m both town and unyeetable.

[Gavial]

WOLVES DON’T MANIPULATE ME!

The only one that does that is myself!

[Gavial]

I manipulate myself allot sometimes

[Gavial]

But hey I was right on Mac and Scotty 180’ed on Mac.
Foolish Scotty.

[Gavial]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

Explain why TF Tony’s above me after the way the ONLY flip scum treated my slot.

Because I think he got a town role card.

Hello Jack!
What’s up?

[falcon45ca]

So uh. I'm feeling iffy on Falc.

He hasn't comment on me at all iirc and then came out with a strong town read on me due to meta. I prompted him to explain because I got pinged by how confident he was. (Keep in mind, btw, that he and I go back a couple years on CDC.)

It's in the way you ask questions and probe the game, your approach is def in your town meta. I mean, I guess you could be faking it, but I don't think that's the case here

That's...a pretty vague answer. It certainly doesn't make me think 'ah yeah, Falcon's got me nailed to a tee'. And that little 'I guess you could be faking but' line that's tagged on feels like it's meant to prevent anyone thinking it sounds TMI-level confident, rather than actually indicate real hesitation.

And, pre-empting my obvious follow-up, he reaches into my iso to illustrate his read.

So anyway, Tim is scum huh.

Nope, not this time. But you already knew that.

Eh. We'll see. You don't feel right. Your push on me feels inauthentic considering you've recently wolfed with me and saw how I operate.

This is towny MR

I think your reasons on Daisy are valid. Like the questions but no follow up and apathy towards wagons are definite scum behavioural tendencies.

But when she and Jack were bickering earlier it was one of the few events of the game I've been somewhat present for, and it felt quite t/t to me. I felt like the frustration and omgusing had a delicate hint of genuineness to them.

So I dunno. Despite the logic, I'm not convinced.

And this is towny MR

if you think that in this game we have drawn a scumteam with 0 slankers you will need to explain what makes that rational?

history speaks to the contrary. If anything the fact that we have chopped two slanky poos and missed makes the slanky poo pool more rich with floaters.

Not 0 slankers. Probably some.

But instead of firing blindly and lazily into the slanky pool let's do some actual work and find the active scum. And even if we miss we force said active scum to Do Stuff.

More towny MR

Those are...not great examples of 'the way you ask questions' or 'probing the game' tbh. They're very bland questions/reactions. They are at best mildly towny, but not 'strong meta read' towny. It kind of feels like he just picked out the first three 'questions/probings' that he spotted. Like how do these examples scream 'probing the game' to anyone? I'm not a great wolf, but I can fake posts like that no sweat.

As soon as I saw Falc's initial post I had one specific encounter in mind that I think is 'vintage slanky town MR' and Falc did not find it. (It was my initial response to Mac, fyi.) If he had given me that I might've given him a pass. Maybe.


tl;dr Falc's meta read is too strong based on his presented evidence of why he has it. It feels like a pocket attempt.

Sure, sounds good.



I'm kinda checked out of this game right now TBH. Do what you will

[Vulgard]

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

[Gavial]

Idk who I wanna yeet but if I did, it would probably be Tim.

Made
Scotty
Daisy
Marmot
Vul
Tony
Gavil
LC
Kyle
Radishes
Falcon
Nacho
Monkey
Tim

I hate this list.

This is more or less how I'd list it if I had to. I'd reorder the top half dozen names around a bit, but the bottom half looks right.

Explain why TF Tony’s above me after the way the ONLY flip scum treated my slot.

Because you keep doing weird ass shit that idk what to do with.

Lick It!
Play with It!
Frolic in It!
Embrace it!

[TonyStarkPrime]

Imagine Tim is town. Wolf team would have to be exactly like....Monkey, Nacho, Falcon, LC.

Yeah I mean sub LC for like X and seems good

[Gavial]

Actually Jack is better then Daisy today because if people still aren’t convinced Tim can never be Mafia, Jack flipping Mafia should prove this for sure!

Tiny problem with this plan is I’m both town and unyeetable.

Your both town?
There is 2 of you?

Wanna claim scum with Daisy yet bud?

[Vulgard]

Alright, now people can't tell me I never tried to make Gavial realize the error of his ways.

Anyway. Hello, TSP. Sub LC for who? Any ideas? And why is LC town to you?

[DaisyCloud]

what would you do if you townread someone because you think they could be a town with a protective role and they are being scumread.

so then u think maybe you might be wrong and everyone else is right and the person is scum.

but literally you saw a post that heavily indicates your thoughts on the player is right. you don't want to out that player.

[Gavial]

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

The Tim one ain’t.
Tim is Not Mafia!
Jack Scum extremely spews Tim as not mafia!

[DaisyCloud]

does day end today or tomorrow?

[Gavial]

I ain’t ever voting Tim and will hard defend them until there’s only 1 Mafia left in which case I can handle it on my own from there.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Alright, now people can't tell me I never tried to make Gavial realize the error of his ways.

Anyway. Hello, TSP. Sub LC for who? Any ideas? And why is LC town to you?

LC seems pretty towny idk. There are still too many names in this game for me to get a general idea. Kyle?

[Vulgard]

what would you do if you townread someone because you think they could be a town with a protective role and they are being scumread.

so then u think maybe you might be wrong and everyone else is right and the person is scum.

but literally you saw a post that heavily indicates your thoughts on the player is right. you don't want to out that player.

You cry.

I know, very helpful. I try to subtly push somewhere else if that happens and steer the thread that way. But now that I said it, people will know if you end up doing it.

[Gavial]

Alright, now people can't tell me I never tried to make Gavial realize the error of his ways.

Anyway. Hello, TSP. Sub LC for who? Any ideas? And why is LC town to you?

Jack.

[Gavial]

@Vulgard
Still waiting for that post of Daisy you 180’ed on!

[Gavial]

You could be doing exactly what Scotty did with Mac.
180’ed from Scum to Town when Mac was Scum.

[Vulgard]

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

The Tim one ain’t.
Tim is Not Mafia!
Jack Scum extremely spews Tim as not mafia!

But Jack isn't confirmed scum by any means. Unless you have a case that buries him into the ground.