The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Marmot]

Yeah, I think abilities happening despite being nightkilled is a somewhat common occurrence.

[Marmot]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

[Scotty]

KZA is voting Gavil.

Wait, did I miss an announcement where KZA was allowed to vote?

I thought the person letting that happened died.

Activated before the kill maybe? Artifacts gonna artifact?

It’s just that all the times before this we got a host announcement of such

[Scotty]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

Got for it, marmot.

Yes, but I’d like a fresh take

[Timsup2nothin]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

I claimed vig and outed you as bulletproof.

[Marmot]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

I claimed vig and outed you as bulletproof.

If you mean yeet-immune, then yes, yes I am.

I'm not terribly surprised by that claim based on your earlier comments about vigs in the game. Did you claim which kills?

[Marmot]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

Got for it, marmot.

Yes, but I’d like a fresh take

Word.

[Timsup2nothin]

Sorry for slanking, I'm very behind, have I missed anything important? Has anyone read through falcon for spew yet?

I claimed vig and outed you as bulletproof.

If you mean yeet-immune, then yes, yes I am.

I'm not terribly surprised by that claim based on your earlier comments about vigs in the game. Did you claim which kills?

I killed Mac.

I totally lied about outing you as bulletproof.

[Marmot]

Lol, I thought you were suggesting that you gave me a bulletproof, which I was happy to play along with.

[Timsup2nothin]

Lol, I thought you were suggesting that you gave me a bulletproof, which I was happy to play along with.

If I gave you bulletproof when you are already yeetproof you would be an indestructible Marmot...

[Marmot]

Lol, I thought you were suggesting that you gave me a bulletproof, which I was happy to play along with.

If I gave you bulletproof when you are already yeetproof you would be an indestructible Marmot...

I've been an indestructible role twice in my mafia career lol, not my first rodeo.

[Marmot]

How could tim have killed Mac, that doesn't check out with the earlier claims you've made.

[Marmot]

Maybe? I read back on his posts, he talked about a vig shrine a lot, in multiple capacities.

I might just bury Qwags because I cant force vigs to exist and if they do exist I cant force them to listen to me

FWIW I am operating under the theory that there is a vig granting shrine, but only one player who goes there actually gets the vig shot. IF someone looked at "hey I could go to this vig shrine, but I'll wait for N2" we may have a vig shot coming. However it is distinctly possible that everyone who had that shrine available said "oh boy a vig!!!" and none of them can go back until N4.

Tim made this theory on Day 2.

Night four is when whoever went to the vig shrine N1 and shot Nanook got to go back again, so I am assuming they shot Nacho.

It seems to be fine-tuned more today in this post.

Actually, this does check out. I thought tim was suggesting earlier in the game that there is someone who can vig, and they had to wait until Night 4 after shooting Nanook N1, but this makes more sense, especially if tim went to that shrine.


Does tim shoot a teammate to preserve himself? Probably not. I've done it once (Long Con probably remembers hehe), but there's no reason for that there.

[Timsup2nothin]

@Marmot

I do think there is a shrine granting someone vig shots, and that they shot Nanook N1 and Nacho N4...standard shrine, have to wait three days to go back, accessed it N1.

I am a separate system. I go to a shrine and get 'money' based on how many other people go to the shrine. I get no info about what the shrine does for anyone else, so for all I know I have been to the vig shrine. But the money I collect, when I collect enough, turns into a vig shot. Problem is it took me three nights to get enough for the first shot and that was with a LOT of other players in the game. Last night was a zero. I am a loooooong way from getting another shot. So it was time to just out and clear myself with the one shot I got. If I get CCed, cool, outed a wolf. If the fact that I am town reduces the POE and we bag a wolf, great. If I eat an NK, that's fine I did my part.

[Timsup2nothin]

I do want to add that if I were a wolf with extra KP on N3 with town on a three consecutive mischop run, the regular NK, and a razor kill...no, that wolf NEVER shoots Mac. I shoot the towniest town in the town, day four dawns with three more dead townies and not a sniff of a wolf, and that's game. If anyone suggests a hellbus Mac kill I will genuinely flip out and just wash my hands of this town.

[Marmot]

I have no clue how the vigs work, and the fact that no one has claimed them tells me that they are not friendly.

Before I check, have any roles flipped with an ability to vig?

[Timsup2nothin]

Well if I could just go to shrine every third night and get a shot I wouldn't claim...N7 isn't that far away. And their shots haven't been great, but they haven't been wolfy.

[Marmot]

Well if I could just go to shrine every third night and get a shot I wouldn't claim...N7 isn't that far away. And their shots haven't been great, but they haven't been wolfy.

That's fair.

I don't hate the Nanook shot, but I myself wouldn't have taken a vig shot Night 1 without absolute certainty. Certainly not on a player like Nanook.

Nacho was a good option, even if it was a miss.

[Scotty]

Hey @Vulgard are you privy to any of Enrique’s first few night actions and shrines?
Like.,had he used this jail keeper ability yet?

[Gavial]

@KZA
Bad!
You should know better!
I’m obvious town!

[Marmot]

I do want to add that if I were a wolf with extra KP on N3 with town on a three consecutive mischop run, the regular NK, and a razor kill...no, that wolf NEVER shoots Mac. I shoot the towniest town in the town, day four dawns with three more dead townies and not a sniff of a wolf, and that's game. If anyone suggests a hellbus Mac kill I will genuinely flip out and just wash my hands of this town.

There is a world where a 3P killed Mac, and you're claiming it because they can't cc without consequences, but that is a risky claim to make yes, and therefore unlikely.

I have this timfoil in my head after Syn's hydra that this money role you have is really just another gambit. I'm not voting for you today, because I know there's evidence that points to the contrary of that, but your role also sounds like nothing anyone else has.

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

[Timsup2nothin]

I do want to add that if I were a wolf with extra KP on N3 with town on a three consecutive mischop run, the regular NK, and a razor kill...no, that wolf NEVER shoots Mac. I shoot the towniest town in the town, day four dawns with three more dead townies and not a sniff of a wolf, and that's game. If anyone suggests a hellbus Mac kill I will genuinely flip out and just wash my hands of this town.

There is a world where a 3P killed Mac, and you're claiming it because they can't cc without consequences, but that is a risky claim to make yes, and therefore unlikely.

I have this timfoil in my head after Syn's hydra that this money role you have is really just another gambit. I'm not voting for you today, because I know there's evidence that points to the contrary of that, but your role also sounds like nothing anyone else has.

I'm kinda surprised tbh. When whoever it was flipped as the "Ashlander Trader" I was kinda thinking they would be similar.

[Scotty]

Looking into Enrique because he was a player in this game for a time,,,

Did y’all remember that in D1 the next highest wagon was falcon? I forgot this.

I think Flanders is wrong about a lot of stuff, which doesn’t make someone bad, in fact, I tend to town-read players with radically different interpretations of the game. But this time I think they’re scum!

Wrong.

I don’t think falcon should have 3 votes.

First mention of falcon. Why did he think this

I forgot what I thought about falcon lol

Yikes. Lol indeed. This was his last post of D1, and of anything of substance for that matter.

Oh, except for this random defense of Mac on D3:

So either one of Mac or Made is lying. GTH I'm saying Mac

Did Mac say he saw everyone at the same shrine or is that just the assumption from his “I found the baddies” post? Because those are very different and neither is as condemning as it’s being played.

Like shit man, I forgot about Enrique because what did his posts matter? We didn’t get a red flip until D4 and now knowing what we know...this is a bad look for Enrique.

Onto his successor

[Marmot]

Oh hey, Scotty's doing the same thing I am. ISOing Enrique. I'll just post those thoughts here.

Not a lot on Enrique. He gave him a GTH scumread Day 1, but then turned it into a townread 30 minutes later. He has one brief spat with Vulgard. Enrique had an amusing progression on falcon here and here. Vulgard looked a little better. He mentions a suspicion, calling falcon out for targeting LHF all game. (Mac wasn't LHF, but that was obvious distancing). Probably one of the more bizarre posts I've seen from Vulgard so far was this one. He posts his readlist, and compares his Day 4 reads with Nanook's Day 1 reads. Uh... Can you explain the reasoning for that one @Vulgard? Or rather, why compare to Nanook, but not someone with more up-to-date reads?

Enrique is definitely compatible, Vulgard a little less so.

[Marmot]

LoMo - LoMo has been kinda of absent all game. He's only made one vote thus far, on Day 3. He did state Day 4 he wanted to vote falcon. Except he never actually did. It's been consistent with his play thus far I guess. Falcon shaded him here and here early on, and seemed like it was another piece of LHF he wanted to yeet. Falcon then puts LoMo on a viglist. (Why is Kyle on this list).

I don't think they're teammates, but it's not a strong feeling. If LoMo had been around and/or voted for falcon yesterday, I'd feel better about him.

@lost monkey where's your head at today?

[Scotty]

YO. Vulgard/Enrique is a WOLF.

Hi. Hello there, welcome to whiterun. Here’s all of Vulgard’s posts on d4 regarding Falcon and the lead up to it:
(Now I do entreat you to read it all in sequence, because it’s QUITE enlightening)

Spoiler: show

Nachomamma's ISO I could best describe as inoffensive. There's nothing in it that definitively told me they have no TMI. But it is not a dumpster fire and I do not want to kill this yet.

Falcon's ISO is a step below that. He spent most of the game pushing LHF. The push on Marmot is especially notable because he's tunneled on it hard. If Marmot's mafia, then this looks better for him, but I currently don't think Marmot's a wolf.

I'm looking at falcon/Nacho/LC/Tim right now as my PoE with Gavial 3p.

Marmot is an outside possibility but I still think it's a town slot.

Still going to check Scotty to determine if clearing him's okay.

Made
MR
DaisyCloud
Jack
TSP

lost monkey
Marmot
Kyle

FMPOV the above are town.

Gavial is my primary 3p read. He's not a pack wolf. I trust he has no TMI based on his play thus far.

If Tim's a wolf, he's partnered with LC. He gave LC an early townshield. "But wolves don't want to look like partners!" Tim's MO as a wolf includes doing those things, I'm sure.

For the record, I reviewed Tim's ISO and I don't townread him. If there's a deepwolf/powerwolf/whatever other than Mac, might be Tim.

I hate that LC pulled this fake redcheck thing. Now I need to read Scotty again.

I'm not sure I've ever seen someone assemble a town core so quickly with so few interactions

Do you have a problem with it because you're not in it, wolf?

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

Basically the same thing given how hard I townread Radishes.

I agree with his Falcon read, too.

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

Current wagon composition:

Falcon (4): Vulgard, Tim, TSP, Nachomamma
Tim (3): MR, Jack, Scotty

Tim's wagon looks far more pure to me. Falcon still isn't self-pressing, either. It matters less pre-EoD, but still.

I won't vote Tim yet, but I'm leaning that way given the wagon formation.

For out-of-game reasons, I'll be busy for a few hours. I hope I'm able to study EoDs before I have to cast a final vote for the day.

Read EoD1. I concede to Tim that he may be right about Nanook getting vigged in the night. Alison advocated for it and even the yeeted villager found Nanook wolfy. Which means that the kills should be swapped around (Nanook vigged, Alison SPKed). There's also the fact Alison claimed a super pro-town role early d1, so killing her would be +EV for wolves either way.

LC's EoD looks kinda wolfy. He parks a vote on Seanzie and it looks like he's shrugging when he places it.

Seanzie goes down flailing and giving us legacy reads. Nanook scum (wrong). Tim scum (we don't know). "Nook W, Enrique W." Nook is V, and I'm not W. "Tim W, Made V." Made's been greenchecked and Tim is in my PoE.

Tim/Mac EoD 1 interactions look mildly not W/W. I still think it's possible they are partners, though.

Tim disliked the Falcon wagon, and Alison defended Falcon hard for gamestate reasons. Yet now Tim's voting Falcon with me. Tim, what changed?

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

I was curious how Tim would react to me pushing Falcon over him, and I don't like it. He posted from the mindset of "well, I can still get Falcon before I die. If Falcon's my partner, I'm bussing here and maybe this'll give me townpoints. If Falcon's V, at least I get one more villager before I go down." The way he reacted to my thinking looks like he's scrambling to find wolfy things in my posts when there aren't any.

Swapping to Tim, we're killing him today. The mindset of "if Falcon flips town, we're just screwed" isn't villagery. It's the mindset of someone who wants to get another misyeet. Where's the analysis of other slots? If Tim's doubting that Falcon's a wolf (and him debating V!Falcon suggests that), why not look elsewhere? He suggests I'm a wolf, but he doesn't push me. In fact, he's voting with me on Falcon. He seems to believe I'm town and mafia at the same time, since I'm in Enrique's slot. He votes on the same wagon as me and wants to vote out the same player as me, but isn't voting me...

This mindset is inconsistent with what he says. Tim is mafia.

Ok so. Did you see it? Lemme break it down for you.
-he comes out swinging with fresh eyes
-gives everyone a patdown (including a ‘meh’ falcon wedged in there)
-ultimately comes away with a scum team of falcon/nacho/LC/tim. What are the odds...only one of those is bad?
-Tim is baaaad
-the falcon/Tim/LC 2-2-2 tie is a-ok
-(once the falcon wagon picked up steam) well, I’m fine leaving my vote there
-(the falcon wagon is screaming out of the station) that Tim tho. He BAD! Votes Tim

I don’t believe that Vulgard ever really thought falcon would be lynched that day. He was looking for something-{anything}-to slander Tim for, and could justify him switching off and still making it look like he was actually cool with falcon.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

[Marmot]

I've gotta run to a meeting, but I'm hoping to continue later tonight/tomorrow.

[Gavial]

Oh hey, Scotty's doing the same thing I am. ISOing Enrique. I'll just post those thoughts here.

Not a lot on Enrique. He gave him a GTH scumread Day 1, but then turned it into a townread 30 minutes later. He has one brief spat with Vulgard. Enrique had an amusing progression on falcon here and here. Vulgard looked a little better. He mentions a suspicion, calling falcon out for targeting LHF all game. (Mac wasn't LHF, but that was obvious distancing). Probably one of the more bizarre posts I've seen from Vulgard so far was this one. He posts his readlist, and compares his Day 4 reads with Nanook's Day 1 reads. Uh... Can you explain the reasoning for that one @Vulgard? Or rather, why compare to Nanook, but not someone with more up-to-date reads?

Enrique is definitely compatible, Vulgard a little less so.

I mean they are the same slot but this effort looks promising Marmot!

[Gavial]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

[Gavial]

I've gotta run to a meeting, but I'm hoping to continue later tonight/tomorrow.

Maybe vote Radish or Vulgard when you get back?
Thanks!

[Marmot]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

I just wanted this reaction tbh. :P

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

[Gavial]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

KZA

Sheep’s dead town with nothing else to add?
Lol.

Um, @Master Radishes
What’s your individual Read on me?
Give me more then “idk wolf”.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

I just wanted this reaction tbh. :P

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

So you agree with my post or you came to that conclusion on your own?

Because you just said Vulgard was less compatible than Enrique

[Gavial]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

I just wanted this reaction tbh. :P

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

*Pats Marmot on Head*

[Scotty]

Just because gavial is also voting for vulgard doesn’t make me think he’s town because of it

[Gavial]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

I just wanted this reaction tbh. :P

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

So you agree with my post or you came to that conclusion on your own?

Because you just said Vulgard was less compatible than Enrique

Maybe re-read what you just said Scotty...

[Gavial]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Why TF are you voting Obv Town?
Especially this late in the game.

I just wanted this reaction tbh. :P

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

So you agree with my post or you came to that conclusion on your own?

Because you just said Vulgard was less compatible than Enrique

Just because gavial is also voting for vulgard doesn’t make me think he’s town because of it

I mean fair enough.
I can’t make you think otherwise so be it.
I’ll just use my watcher tonight and vote scum tomorrow.
If you vote for me over the scum I’ll just respond to you with “I’m Obvious Town”.

[Gavial]

Dang it, I still had the other post quoted!

[Timsup2nothin]

YO. Vulgard/Enrique is a WOLF.

Hi. Hello there, welcome to whiterun. Here’s all of Vulgard’s posts on d4 regarding Falcon and the lead up to it:
(Now I do entreat you to read it all in sequence, because it’s QUITE enlightening)

Spoiler: show

Nachomamma's ISO I could best describe as inoffensive. There's nothing in it that definitively told me they have no TMI. But it is not a dumpster fire and I do not want to kill this yet.

Falcon's ISO is a step below that. He spent most of the game pushing LHF. The push on Marmot is especially notable because he's tunneled on it hard. If Marmot's mafia, then this looks better for him, but I currently don't think Marmot's a wolf.

I'm looking at falcon/Nacho/LC/Tim right now as my PoE with Gavial 3p.

Marmot is an outside possibility but I still think it's a town slot.

Still going to check Scotty to determine if clearing him's okay.

Made
MR
DaisyCloud
Jack
TSP

lost monkey
Marmot
Kyle

FMPOV the above are town.

Gavial is my primary 3p read. He's not a pack wolf. I trust he has no TMI based on his play thus far.

If Tim's a wolf, he's partnered with LC. He gave LC an early townshield. "But wolves don't want to look like partners!" Tim's MO as a wolf includes doing those things, I'm sure.

For the record, I reviewed Tim's ISO and I don't townread him. If there's a deepwolf/powerwolf/whatever other than Mac, might be Tim.

I hate that LC pulled this fake redcheck thing. Now I need to read Scotty again.

I'm not sure I've ever seen someone assemble a town core so quickly with so few interactions

Do you have a problem with it because you're not in it, wolf?

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

Basically the same thing given how hard I townread Radishes.

I agree with his Falcon read, too.

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

Current wagon composition:

Falcon (4): Vulgard, Tim, TSP, Nachomamma
Tim (3): MR, Jack, Scotty

Tim's wagon looks far more pure to me. Falcon still isn't self-pressing, either. It matters less pre-EoD, but still.

I won't vote Tim yet, but I'm leaning that way given the wagon formation.

For out-of-game reasons, I'll be busy for a few hours. I hope I'm able to study EoDs before I have to cast a final vote for the day.

Read EoD1. I concede to Tim that he may be right about Nanook getting vigged in the night. Alison advocated for it and even the yeeted villager found Nanook wolfy. Which means that the kills should be swapped around (Nanook vigged, Alison SPKed). There's also the fact Alison claimed a super pro-town role early d1, so killing her would be +EV for wolves either way.

LC's EoD looks kinda wolfy. He parks a vote on Seanzie and it looks like he's shrugging when he places it.

Seanzie goes down flailing and giving us legacy reads. Nanook scum (wrong). Tim scum (we don't know). "Nook W, Enrique W." Nook is V, and I'm not W. "Tim W, Made V." Made's been greenchecked and Tim is in my PoE.

Tim/Mac EoD 1 interactions look mildly not W/W. I still think it's possible they are partners, though.

Tim disliked the Falcon wagon, and Alison defended Falcon hard for gamestate reasons. Yet now Tim's voting Falcon with me. Tim, what changed?

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

I was curious how Tim would react to me pushing Falcon over him, and I don't like it. He posted from the mindset of "well, I can still get Falcon before I die. If Falcon's my partner, I'm bussing here and maybe this'll give me townpoints. If Falcon's V, at least I get one more villager before I go down." The way he reacted to my thinking looks like he's scrambling to find wolfy things in my posts when there aren't any.

Swapping to Tim, we're killing him today. The mindset of "if Falcon flips town, we're just screwed" isn't villagery. It's the mindset of someone who wants to get another misyeet. Where's the analysis of other slots? If Tim's doubting that Falcon's a wolf (and him debating V!Falcon suggests that), why not look elsewhere? He suggests I'm a wolf, but he doesn't push me. In fact, he's voting with me on Falcon. He seems to believe I'm town and mafia at the same time, since I'm in Enrique's slot. He votes on the same wagon as me and wants to vote out the same player as me, but isn't voting me...

This mindset is inconsistent with what he says. Tim is mafia.

Ok so. Did you see it? Lemme break it down for you.
-he comes out swinging with fresh eyes
-gives everyone a patdown (including a ‘meh’ falcon wedged in there)
-ultimately comes away with a scum team of falcon/nacho/LC/tim. What are the odds...only one of those is bad?
-Tim is baaaad
-the falcon/Tim/LC 2-2-2 tie is a-ok
-(once the falcon wagon picked up steam) well, I’m fine leaving my vote there
-(the falcon wagon is screaming out of the station) that Tim tho. He BAD! Votes Tim

I don’t believe that Vulgard ever really thought falcon would be lynched that day. He was looking for something-{anything}-to slander Tim for, and could justify him switching off and still making it look like he was actually cool with falcon.

You steal my case NOW? Where were you BEFORE I volunteered to eat a night kill?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Last time I played with wolf Enrique, he treaded water by arguing with iirc wolf Long Con about them sorta claiming the same role for the entire game.

Idk if he’s so basic as to spend like half his posts defending packmates.

[Gavial]

Last time I played with wolf Enrique, he treaded water by arguing with iirc wolf Long Con about them sorta claiming the same role for the entire game.

Idk if he’s so basic as to spend like half his posts defending packmates.

Remember Jack.
I think you and Radish are his wolf mates.

[Scotty]

I also found this amusing in my iso:

I'm not sure why I bother to engage with you when you're off in your own little world. So now Tim's a serial killer? Why are you assuming the 3p is an SK in the first place? The number of KP went 2-1-3. Doesn't HAVE to be a serial killer, although I agree it's somewhat likely.

Also, Gavial. Everyone discredits your reads because everybody knows they are awful. This is why you almost never get nightkilled. The only times you get nightkilled is when you're a town PR wolves want dead. Otherwise, you're +EV to keep alive because you push town for the majority of each game.

The reason you push town so much is because you get tunneled and your progression makes no sense. You're not evaluating. Your play is so chaotic and impulsive you get deceived by any calculated move a wolf makes. You harp on villagers who are doing their thing and never reevaluate them. When that villager dies, you move onto another.

Pinging people in every post won't make people listen to you more. Being more accurate, better at analysis, and less frustrating to deal with, will. You declared you'd RNG your reads on day 1 of this game; of course people would discredit them. Even without knowing your usual accuracy, they'd discredit them. You yourself admitted you would rely on RNG, which is <<<rand accuracy.

TL;DR Mac discrediting your reads means absolutely nothing about their accuracy. Everyone's been discrediting your reads because of the things you've done and the way you play.

I've already explained my thought process behind blocking Gavial. I'm surprised he's still alive. He may be Gavial, but he hardclaimed early day 2 and still hasn't died. I understand the logic behind killing greenchecks, but his role is dangerous. It has the potential to out wolves or clear townies every night.

The fact it hasn't is suspicious, like someone brought up before me. I jailkept him to verify if he has been killing people behind our backs.

The fact you're looking at it at such a surface level is wolfy. You're reducing my actions to the bare minimum.

"Didn't read the OP and see the number of wolves, must be mafia." Am I not MORE likely to know the number of wolves if I'm a wolf myself? I know how many partners I have, they sit in my wolfchat. This is the dumbest possible thing to suspect me over. Have you never seen villagers make mistakes about the number of wolves before? I doubt you haven't.

"Jailkept a tracker/watcher claim, must be mafia."

The tracker/watcher claim that's survived this long since an early day 2 claim. Sure, it's Gavial, but it's also a tracker/watcher. Really dangerous to the wolves. Maybe there's a wolf roleblocker that keeps blocking him; that's the only world I can see. But then again, this game won't let you use the same ability many times in a row. You can't visit the same shrine all the time, so I found that world unlikely.

In essence, I thought Gavial could be a hidden non-town KP owner, whether mafia or 3p. And if he wasn't, it was possible I'd protect him from getting nightkilled. Because, like you said, his role can give us clears if he's town. It hasn't, at least so far, but it could.

Me hardclaiming the jailkeep as mafia carries a certain risk. It looks wolfy on the surface, and people could push me for it. "Who would jailkeep someone who gives us clears?" But since I'm town, I have no TMI on Gavial's alignment. I'm not afraid to out it and explain the thought process behind the action.

You're ignoring the nuance behind my actions, and that's wolfy.

Lots of explanation for his decision. Seems like overjustification. He’s also like the only person peddling how important gavial is for wolves to kill.

The biggest benefit of being a jailor role if you’re bad is to block a powerful role that you know might ruin you.

[Gavial]

Also like Vulgard dropping his read on me didn’t feel real.

[Scotty]

YO. Vulgard/Enrique is a WOLF.

Hi. Hello there, welcome to whiterun. Here’s all of Vulgard’s posts on d4 regarding Falcon and the lead up to it:
(Now I do entreat you to read it all in sequence, because it’s QUITE enlightening)

Spoiler: show

Nachomamma's ISO I could best describe as inoffensive. There's nothing in it that definitively told me they have no TMI. But it is not a dumpster fire and I do not want to kill this yet.

Falcon's ISO is a step below that. He spent most of the game pushing LHF. The push on Marmot is especially notable because he's tunneled on it hard. If Marmot's mafia, then this looks better for him, but I currently don't think Marmot's a wolf.

I'm looking at falcon/Nacho/LC/Tim right now as my PoE with Gavial 3p.

Marmot is an outside possibility but I still think it's a town slot.

Still going to check Scotty to determine if clearing him's okay.

Made
MR
DaisyCloud
Jack
TSP

lost monkey
Marmot
Kyle

FMPOV the above are town.

Gavial is my primary 3p read. He's not a pack wolf. I trust he has no TMI based on his play thus far.

If Tim's a wolf, he's partnered with LC. He gave LC an early townshield. "But wolves don't want to look like partners!" Tim's MO as a wolf includes doing those things, I'm sure.

For the record, I reviewed Tim's ISO and I don't townread him. If there's a deepwolf/powerwolf/whatever other than Mac, might be Tim.

I hate that LC pulled this fake redcheck thing. Now I need to read Scotty again.

I'm not sure I've ever seen someone assemble a town core so quickly with so few interactions

Do you have a problem with it because you're not in it, wolf?

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

Basically the same thing given how hard I townread Radishes.

I agree with his Falcon read, too.

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

Current wagon composition:

Falcon (4): Vulgard, Tim, TSP, Nachomamma
Tim (3): MR, Jack, Scotty

Tim's wagon looks far more pure to me. Falcon still isn't self-pressing, either. It matters less pre-EoD, but still.

I won't vote Tim yet, but I'm leaning that way given the wagon formation.

For out-of-game reasons, I'll be busy for a few hours. I hope I'm able to study EoDs before I have to cast a final vote for the day.

Read EoD1. I concede to Tim that he may be right about Nanook getting vigged in the night. Alison advocated for it and even the yeeted villager found Nanook wolfy. Which means that the kills should be swapped around (Nanook vigged, Alison SPKed). There's also the fact Alison claimed a super pro-town role early d1, so killing her would be +EV for wolves either way.

LC's EoD looks kinda wolfy. He parks a vote on Seanzie and it looks like he's shrugging when he places it.

Seanzie goes down flailing and giving us legacy reads. Nanook scum (wrong). Tim scum (we don't know). "Nook W, Enrique W." Nook is V, and I'm not W. "Tim W, Made V." Made's been greenchecked and Tim is in my PoE.

Tim/Mac EoD 1 interactions look mildly not W/W. I still think it's possible they are partners, though.

Tim disliked the Falcon wagon, and Alison defended Falcon hard for gamestate reasons. Yet now Tim's voting Falcon with me. Tim, what changed?

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

I was curious how Tim would react to me pushing Falcon over him, and I don't like it. He posted from the mindset of "well, I can still get Falcon before I die. If Falcon's my partner, I'm bussing here and maybe this'll give me townpoints. If Falcon's V, at least I get one more villager before I go down." The way he reacted to my thinking looks like he's scrambling to find wolfy things in my posts when there aren't any.

Swapping to Tim, we're killing him today. The mindset of "if Falcon flips town, we're just screwed" isn't villagery. It's the mindset of someone who wants to get another misyeet. Where's the analysis of other slots? If Tim's doubting that Falcon's a wolf (and him debating V!Falcon suggests that), why not look elsewhere? He suggests I'm a wolf, but he doesn't push me. In fact, he's voting with me on Falcon. He seems to believe I'm town and mafia at the same time, since I'm in Enrique's slot. He votes on the same wagon as me and wants to vote out the same player as me, but isn't voting me...

This mindset is inconsistent with what he says. Tim is mafia.

Ok so. Did you see it? Lemme break it down for you.
-he comes out swinging with fresh eyes
-gives everyone a patdown (including a ‘meh’ falcon wedged in there)
-ultimately comes away with a scum team of falcon/nacho/LC/tim. What are the odds...only one of those is bad?
-Tim is baaaad
-the falcon/Tim/LC 2-2-2 tie is a-ok
-(once the falcon wagon picked up steam) well, I’m fine leaving my vote there
-(the falcon wagon is screaming out of the station) that Tim tho. He BAD! Votes Tim

I don’t believe that Vulgard ever really thought falcon would be lynched that day. He was looking for something-{anything}-to slander Tim for, and could justify him switching off and still making it look like he was actually cool with falcon.

You steal my case NOW? Where were you BEFORE I volunteered to eat a night kill?

I just had to look at it myself.

No offense, but you’re not the most trusted person in town. But i appreciate that you had me look at all

[Gavial]

I also found this amusing in my iso:

I'm not sure why I bother to engage with you when you're off in your own little world. So now Tim's a serial killer? Why are you assuming the 3p is an SK in the first place? The number of KP went 2-1-3. Doesn't HAVE to be a serial killer, although I agree it's somewhat likely.

Also, Gavial. Everyone discredits your reads because everybody knows they are awful. This is why you almost never get nightkilled. The only times you get nightkilled is when you're a town PR wolves want dead. Otherwise, you're +EV to keep alive because you push town for the majority of each game.

The reason you push town so much is because you get tunneled and your progression makes no sense. You're not evaluating. Your play is so chaotic and impulsive you get deceived by any calculated move a wolf makes. You harp on villagers who are doing their thing and never reevaluate them. When that villager dies, you move onto another.

Pinging people in every post won't make people listen to you more. Being more accurate, better at analysis, and less frustrating to deal with, will. You declared you'd RNG your reads on day 1 of this game; of course people would discredit them. Even without knowing your usual accuracy, they'd discredit them. You yourself admitted you would rely on RNG, which is <<<rand accuracy.

TL;DR Mac discrediting your reads means absolutely nothing about their accuracy. Everyone's been discrediting your reads because of the things you've done and the way you play.

I've already explained my thought process behind blocking Gavial. I'm surprised he's still alive. He may be Gavial, but he hardclaimed early day 2 and still hasn't died. I understand the logic behind killing greenchecks, but his role is dangerous. It has the potential to out wolves or clear townies every night.

The fact it hasn't is suspicious, like someone brought up before me. I jailkept him to verify if he has been killing people behind our backs.

The fact you're looking at it at such a surface level is wolfy. You're reducing my actions to the bare minimum.

"Didn't read the OP and see the number of wolves, must be mafia." Am I not MORE likely to know the number of wolves if I'm a wolf myself? I know how many partners I have, they sit in my wolfchat. This is the dumbest possible thing to suspect me over. Have you never seen villagers make mistakes about the number of wolves before? I doubt you haven't.

"Jailkept a tracker/watcher claim, must be mafia."

The tracker/watcher claim that's survived this long since an early day 2 claim. Sure, it's Gavial, but it's also a tracker/watcher. Really dangerous to the wolves. Maybe there's a wolf roleblocker that keeps blocking him; that's the only world I can see. But then again, this game won't let you use the same ability many times in a row. You can't visit the same shrine all the time, so I found that world unlikely.

In essence, I thought Gavial could be a hidden non-town KP owner, whether mafia or 3p. And if he wasn't, it was possible I'd protect him from getting nightkilled. Because, like you said, his role can give us clears if he's town. It hasn't, at least so far, but it could.

Me hardclaiming the jailkeep as mafia carries a certain risk. It looks wolfy on the surface, and people could push me for it. "Who would jailkeep someone who gives us clears?" But since I'm town, I have no TMI on Gavial's alignment. I'm not afraid to out it and explain the thought process behind the action.

You're ignoring the nuance behind my actions, and that's wolfy.

Lots of explanation for his decision. Seems like overjustification. He’s also like the only person peddling how important gavial is for wolves to kill.

The biggest benefit of being a jailor role if you’re bad is to block a powerful role that you know might ruin you.

I mean he did block me last night from tracking Tim.

[Scotty]

I also found this amusing in my iso:

I'm not sure why I bother to engage with you when you're off in your own little world. So now Tim's a serial killer? Why are you assuming the 3p is an SK in the first place? The number of KP went 2-1-3. Doesn't HAVE to be a serial killer, although I agree it's somewhat likely.

Also, Gavial. Everyone discredits your reads because everybody knows they are awful. This is why you almost never get nightkilled. The only times you get nightkilled is when you're a town PR wolves want dead. Otherwise, you're +EV to keep alive because you push town for the majority of each game.

The reason you push town so much is because you get tunneled and your progression makes no sense. You're not evaluating. Your play is so chaotic and impulsive you get deceived by any calculated move a wolf makes. You harp on villagers who are doing their thing and never reevaluate them. When that villager dies, you move onto another.

Pinging people in every post won't make people listen to you more. Being more accurate, better at analysis, and less frustrating to deal with, will. You declared you'd RNG your reads on day 1 of this game; of course people would discredit them. Even without knowing your usual accuracy, they'd discredit them. You yourself admitted you would rely on RNG, which is <<<rand accuracy.

TL;DR Mac discrediting your reads means absolutely nothing about their accuracy. Everyone's been discrediting your reads because of the things you've done and the way you play.

I've already explained my thought process behind blocking Gavial. I'm surprised he's still alive. He may be Gavial, but he hardclaimed early day 2 and still hasn't died. I understand the logic behind killing greenchecks, but his role is dangerous. It has the potential to out wolves or clear townies every night.

The fact it hasn't is suspicious, like someone brought up before me. I jailkept him to verify if he has been killing people behind our backs.

The fact you're looking at it at such a surface level is wolfy. You're reducing my actions to the bare minimum.

"Didn't read the OP and see the number of wolves, must be mafia." Am I not MORE likely to know the number of wolves if I'm a wolf myself? I know how many partners I have, they sit in my wolfchat. This is the dumbest possible thing to suspect me over. Have you never seen villagers make mistakes about the number of wolves before? I doubt you haven't.

"Jailkept a tracker/watcher claim, must be mafia."

The tracker/watcher claim that's survived this long since an early day 2 claim. Sure, it's Gavial, but it's also a tracker/watcher. Really dangerous to the wolves. Maybe there's a wolf roleblocker that keeps blocking him; that's the only world I can see. But then again, this game won't let you use the same ability many times in a row. You can't visit the same shrine all the time, so I found that world unlikely.

In essence, I thought Gavial could be a hidden non-town KP owner, whether mafia or 3p. And if he wasn't, it was possible I'd protect him from getting nightkilled. Because, like you said, his role can give us clears if he's town. It hasn't, at least so far, but it could.

Me hardclaiming the jailkeep as mafia carries a certain risk. It looks wolfy on the surface, and people could push me for it. "Who would jailkeep someone who gives us clears?" But since I'm town, I have no TMI on Gavial's alignment. I'm not afraid to out it and explain the thought process behind the action.

You're ignoring the nuance behind my actions, and that's wolfy.

Lots of explanation for his decision. Seems like overjustification. He’s also like the only person peddling how important gavial is for wolves to kill.

The biggest benefit of being a jailor role if you’re bad is to block a powerful role that you know might ruin you.

I mean he did block me last night from tracking Tim.

[Gavial]

I hope I die tonight because I’m like multi-balling hard RN!

[Jackofhearts2005]

YO. Vulgard/Enrique is a WOLF.

Hi. Hello there, welcome to whiterun. Here’s all of Vulgard’s posts on d4 regarding Falcon and the lead up to it:
(Now I do entreat you to read it all in sequence, because it’s QUITE enlightening)

Spoiler: show

Nachomamma's ISO I could best describe as inoffensive. There's nothing in it that definitively told me they have no TMI. But it is not a dumpster fire and I do not want to kill this yet.

Falcon's ISO is a step below that. He spent most of the game pushing LHF. The push on Marmot is especially notable because he's tunneled on it hard. If Marmot's mafia, then this looks better for him, but I currently don't think Marmot's a wolf.

I'm looking at falcon/Nacho/LC/Tim right now as my PoE with Gavial 3p.

Marmot is an outside possibility but I still think it's a town slot.

Still going to check Scotty to determine if clearing him's okay.

Made
MR
DaisyCloud
Jack
TSP

lost monkey
Marmot
Kyle

FMPOV the above are town.

Gavial is my primary 3p read. He's not a pack wolf. I trust he has no TMI based on his play thus far.

If Tim's a wolf, he's partnered with LC. He gave LC an early townshield. "But wolves don't want to look like partners!" Tim's MO as a wolf includes doing those things, I'm sure.

For the record, I reviewed Tim's ISO and I don't townread him. If there's a deepwolf/powerwolf/whatever other than Mac, might be Tim.

I hate that LC pulled this fake redcheck thing. Now I need to read Scotty again.

I'm not sure I've ever seen someone assemble a town core so quickly with so few interactions

Do you have a problem with it because you're not in it, wolf?

Who replaced Quin again?

Hi.

I was told Quin had flipped town :wowee:

Basically the same thing given how hard I townread Radishes.

I agree with his Falcon read, too.

Current wagons are all fine.

Emphasis on wagons. Not vanity votes.

I'm not sure whether Falcon voting no yeet is funny or wolfy. Could be both, could be neither.

Current wagon composition:

Falcon (4): Vulgard, Tim, TSP, Nachomamma
Tim (3): MR, Jack, Scotty

Tim's wagon looks far more pure to me. Falcon still isn't self-pressing, either. It matters less pre-EoD, but still.

I won't vote Tim yet, but I'm leaning that way given the wagon formation.

For out-of-game reasons, I'll be busy for a few hours. I hope I'm able to study EoDs before I have to cast a final vote for the day.

Read EoD1. I concede to Tim that he may be right about Nanook getting vigged in the night. Alison advocated for it and even the yeeted villager found Nanook wolfy. Which means that the kills should be swapped around (Nanook vigged, Alison SPKed). There's also the fact Alison claimed a super pro-town role early d1, so killing her would be +EV for wolves either way.

LC's EoD looks kinda wolfy. He parks a vote on Seanzie and it looks like he's shrugging when he places it.

Seanzie goes down flailing and giving us legacy reads. Nanook scum (wrong). Tim scum (we don't know). "Nook W, Enrique W." Nook is V, and I'm not W. "Tim W, Made V." Made's been greenchecked and Tim is in my PoE.

Tim/Mac EoD 1 interactions look mildly not W/W. I still think it's possible they are partners, though.

Tim disliked the Falcon wagon, and Alison defended Falcon hard for gamestate reasons. Yet now Tim's voting Falcon with me. Tim, what changed?

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

I was curious how Tim would react to me pushing Falcon over him, and I don't like it. He posted from the mindset of "well, I can still get Falcon before I die. If Falcon's my partner, I'm bussing here and maybe this'll give me townpoints. If Falcon's V, at least I get one more villager before I go down." The way he reacted to my thinking looks like he's scrambling to find wolfy things in my posts when there aren't any.

Swapping to Tim, we're killing him today. The mindset of "if Falcon flips town, we're just screwed" isn't villagery. It's the mindset of someone who wants to get another misyeet. Where's the analysis of other slots? If Tim's doubting that Falcon's a wolf (and him debating V!Falcon suggests that), why not look elsewhere? He suggests I'm a wolf, but he doesn't push me. In fact, he's voting with me on Falcon. He seems to believe I'm town and mafia at the same time, since I'm in Enrique's slot. He votes on the same wagon as me and wants to vote out the same player as me, but isn't voting me...

This mindset is inconsistent with what he says. Tim is mafia.

Ok so. Did you see it? Lemme break it down for you.
-he comes out swinging with fresh eyes
-gives everyone a patdown (including a ‘meh’ falcon wedged in there)
-ultimately comes away with a scum team of falcon/nacho/LC/tim. What are the odds...only one of those is bad?
-Tim is baaaad
-the falcon/Tim/LC 2-2-2 tie is a-ok
-(once the falcon wagon picked up steam) well, I’m fine leaving my vote there
-(the falcon wagon is screaming out of the station) that Tim tho. He BAD! Votes Tim

I don’t believe that Vulgard ever really thought falcon would be lynched that day. He was looking for something-{anything}-to slander Tim for, and could justify him switching off and still making it look like he was actually cool with falcon.

This ain’t a bad case though.