Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

[hawkataine]

Owner ISO (this one's pretty juicy):

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I don't think this is a post owner makes if LoMo is on her team. She's obviously not trying to protect all the PerC players, it seems like she's paranoid seeing it happen to someone else, and I think she thinks twice about making this post if LoMo is someone she actually wants alive. This is pretty weak though.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

That was a joke. I wasn't saying you guys were being unwelcoming, far from it. I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. You seem very strong willed, and I feel like I didn't mean to hit something.

I was just trying to catch up, but it seems I started a fire in you.

Owner seems kinda intimidated by Alison and I don't think they're teamed for this post and for basically everything Alison has done this game

Spoiler: show

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

Oof, this "icky feeling" pinged me...I wish I saved a screenshot of the votes to know if I mind melded with some people

Afaik actv is the only person that's voted me, but I'm happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have!

You have a gentle presence. I'm not use it. It feels nice.

Again, this is pretty weak, but I think it carries on the view that owner didn't feel secure in the thread and was happy to see Dana as someone accessible she could interact with. I don't think they're teamed from this.

Spoiler: show

the wolves are so good at gaining everyones trust and then they just turn around and kill us all

hmm, do I trust the person with the cat avi? Sweet, innocent, cute looking kitty...hmm...they are probably...or maybe they will scratch me later...hmm...I think I should ignore my inclinations towards reading someone's avi. It's probably NAI.

Owner, what are your thoughts on Dana?

And what was your purpose for posting this/saying this out loud?

She hasn't said anything that pings me. She feels fine. She's in the slight town boat. I don't really know her range or how capable she is.

So far my the people who have pinged me are yourself, Tangy, nutella, and Sloonei

Alison's personality is strong, but I don't necessarily feel that that makes her mafia. If her reads were to clash really heavily with mine after days had gone by, I would maybe revisit her. But right now, her opinions are her own. I don't always have a purpose when responding to something. I just feel like that's something I would comment about and then I usually do so. As for saying things that help other players relate to or read me better, that probably still isn't my best suit, especially when playing with new people.

This list of Act, Tangy, nutella, and sloonei as people who have pinged her. I don't think sloonei and Act can both be mafia here, at least.

The way nutella pushes Owner is very bad. nutella has a stubbornness and conviction when she is town that is not present in her push of Owner. I believe she wants the thread to see her pushing Owner but without actually lending bite to the push. Furthermore when she came under heavy fire she immediately amplified the theatricality of her Owner push ("say something game related or die"). But when an alternative push that isn't Owner comes up (Lost Monkey) she jumps straight onto it, while also winking and nodding at the suggestion that LoMo has TMI'd Owner to be town.

I think they are very compatible as buddies. You can call this preflip association if you want, but both of them have been individually scummy and nutella's progression on Owner doesn't make sense.

I think some people push on me because a lot of our thoughts don't line up or they have a hard time seeing what I'm saying. I must have missed the part about that to lomo.

LoMo talking about my play I feel he would do as either alignment. Or I feel like a lot of us from PerC will talk about each other it isn't something that one would necessarily use for just one alignment. I don't know. I feel LoMo talking about it either NAI or more potentially a town lean. I'm still really behind. I have read the first 6 pages out of 38. And I have read some of the conversations around when I have been posting in the thread, everything else I have not really read or had time to read.

This is a bit of a contradiction to what I said earlier, because here Owner is faced with the possibility that LoMo has TMIed her town and doesn't take it. Again, this is very weak, but this one would indicate that they were teamed. That said, for context, Owner and LoMo are both very very old players who have been playing together for so many years xD So I can believe that there's kinship there interfering, and I can believe that owner wants to read LoMo town if they're not on the same team.

vote made?

Made is kind of in poe. I don't remember them, but there's others I don't remember.

This is such a nothing statement in contrast to owner previously having suspicion on nutella. Owner does then stealth vote made, which I believe likely makes Made town, because even if you're trying to bus the less active team member (made) over the more active/scumread team member (nutella), you want to take credit for that flip if it happens, and she didn't vote in the thread.

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

I initially felt pinged by the icky feeling words, but reading it now it feels like Act is reacting to Dana's words as if to say she kind of sounds fake or it is sort of a blanket statement or could just be filler

- light town for Act

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

What don't you like about it? Seems non AI to me.

Unlike your posts that felt genuine, this feels like a forced nicety. Among a couple other things, but I’m working that out in a convo with Dana! Stay tuned. Thoughts may change.

- scum!Act is different, she's town for me

I think this looks good for Act. Slapping a town read down and being like 'yeah scum Act is different' seems more like TMI than fabricating a read on a teammate.

Also hi, JJJ,

What exactly do you expect from a scum!Tang having an agenda, and having a lower comfort level, so far at a Day 1?

I will preface this by saying pure meta reads don't tend to play a huge role in my views, outside perhaps with Sloonei. So I can assign some "expectations" to a mafia-aligned Tangrowth, but take the following with many grains of salt. I would hardly build a case on this basis:

~ In the past, mafia Tangrowth has had a greater tendency to play with a tone of severity -- not necessarily "hostile", but more aggressive and less accommodating.
~ In that way, there'd be inherently less appearance of comfort and more of a sense of immediate and undue urgency.

Again, I don't care much about these notions. But I wanted to answer your question.

Are you saying that Tangrowth looks happier and more confident as town? Because the "sense of immediate and undue urgency" seems to imply a level of anxiety about being scum. But whenyou say that you don't care much about meta, are you suggesting that Tangrowth could simply be trying a different play style? And, if so, how are you reading Tangrowth right now?

I think Gnome could be town. I have not really used this read before, but I think as she scum is more fluffy or lacks questions that go somewhere. Most games she will talk about irl regardless of alignment, but I think as town she has some posts that are less scummier than others if that makes sense...idk, I dislike the number of times gnome gets misyeeted as town for just being herself

This read, on the other hand, looks like it could be on a teammate imo. Particularly that ending which is just a baseless AtE that I don't think owner makes on behalf of a townie. If I'm wrong here it's because of confirmation bias on my part, for which I apologise, but I think this is a decent interpretation.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart why did you initially deny targeting jay?

I wasn't ready to share majority of the details regarding my role. I thought seanzie was doing a fancy play and maybe knew I targeted gavial and was trying to trap me. His post felt like a trap. At the time, I wasn't the lead wagon so I didn't thing it was the right time to claim. You claim when you are going to likely die not when you might die.

This isn't the only post where owner refers to feeling like seanzie sets a trap for her. She's not in control of the thread here as this was part of her play during the whole claim mess, so I think this is a genuine emotion (see previous themes of owner not being secure in the thread) which looks really good for seanzie.

TL;DR, this looks fab for Seanzie, great for Alison and made, good for Act, decent for Dana and LoMo, and not great for Gnome.

[Garden Gnome]

Hawk could actually be town. I am very mystified by this whole series of events.
I don't know why she is voting Orange Crush, however.
I was very convinced that she had made a scum claim.
But she is still focused on solving.
Or, at least, appearing to solve.
Maybe she is pocketing everyone?
Or maybe she is town?
Ugh, I have no clue.

[Seanzie]

Who thinks Sonny/orangecrush is town?

I don't think Sonny is town, but Orange I'm not so sure about

GTH I'd guess scum in the slot. I just... kind of thought Orange would be more obviously scum. However, she repped into another game on like D3 or D4, and just came in, obv-towned herself, and nailed almost the entire scumteam in her review. She got a few little things wrong, but she had a swiftness of purpose and a confidence that made me think she was much more experienced than she is. I haven't gotten that same feeling from her yet, but I also can't say "oh she's obv scum" as I kind of thought I would be able to given that this would be her first scum game ever.

[Seanzie]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I will let you go for now since it sounds like you're still on your phone, but if you are alive tomorrow and I am not, someone should hold you to showing you work on this.

[Seanzie]

Her usefulness is minimized if she isn’t allowed to hunt unfettered, and applies to town hawk or mafia hawk. We’ve had all day phase to sort her. Anyway I said my piece; folks will do what they do.

If you want Hawk to die but solve, why aren't you voting for her?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: hawkataine] aubergine

[Sloonei]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Her usefulness is minimized if she isn’t allowed to hunt unfettered, and applies to town hawk or mafia hawk. We’ve had all day phase to sort her. Anyway I said my piece; folks will do what they do.

If you want Hawk to die but solve, why aren't you voting for her?

Just did, but the vote is ceremonial. She gon die either way.

[Garden Gnome]

I have to go and doubt if I will be back for EOD.
I really, really hope that we are yeeting scum, but Hawk's more recent posts have left me feeling less confident.
Let's go, town! We can do it!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

[Seanzie]

Her usefulness is minimized if she isn’t allowed to hunt unfettered, and applies to town hawk or mafia hawk. We’ve had all day phase to sort her. Anyway I said my piece; folks will do what they do.

If you want Hawk to die but solve, why aren't you voting for her?

Just did, but the vote is ceremonial. She gon die either way.

Not if we CFD Tangy?

[Sloonei]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

[hawkataine]

Oh whoops I also forgot to mention Owner says she "needs to see more of Sonny's posts" when asked for initial impressions early on D1, and then does absolutely nothing to follow up on that ever again, which isn't a great look
Again, at risk of confirmation bias here

[Seanzie]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

[Seanzie]

Oh whoops I also forgot to mention Owner says she "needs to see more of Sonny's posts" when asked for initial impressions early on D1, and then does absolutely nothing to follow up on that ever again, which isn't a great look
Again, at risk of confirmation bias here

I appreciate your effort. You are going to die, but anything you can give us is very helpful! I'm not reading it carefully right now, but I promise I will read all your posts tomorrow if they flip town, and I will take them into account. I think you know I'm telling the truth because I flabbergasted you by listening to Ducky's dying words when I was deathtunneling you, then just dropped it the next day because Ducky told me to.

[Sloonei]

I don’t know why mafia chose Gavial and I. I can only theorize. I was asked to report what happened, and that’s what I did.

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

[Seanzie]

Speaking of Gav, How has your review of Sloonei gone?

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

I don't know if I hope you're right or wrong, and am kind of okay with that.

[hawkataine]

Oh whoops I also forgot to mention Owner says she "needs to see more of Sonny's posts" when asked for initial impressions early on D1, and then does absolutely nothing to follow up on that ever again, which isn't a great look
Again, at risk of confirmation bias here

I appreciate your effort. You are going to die, but anything you can give us is very helpful! I'm not reading it carefully right now, but I promise I will read all your posts tomorrow if they flip town, and I will take them into account. I think you know I'm telling the truth because I flabbergasted you by listening to Ducky's dying words when I was deathtunneling you, then just dropped it the next day because Ducky told me to.

Yeah ngl I'm just trying to actually play the game I signed up for at this point instead of restating my claim 20 times, I'm not too fussed if people pay attention now or later xD I appreciate you saying this. Please don't use my arguments as like a 'hawk said this so it must be true' though (this goes for everyone lol) because once I'm dead I can't update my reads and also I might be wrong :')

[Dana]

@Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

Yes for sure, just got a lil busy with the real life but Ive been planning to work on a reads list sometime during this day phase

*cocks an eyebrow at Dana and taps watch expectantly*

yeah yeah..

reads off the top of my head

town:
tangy
seanzie
Alison
jjj
nanook
lost monkey

townlean:
mac
guillo
actv
gnome
sloonei
long con

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

gonna try refine my unsure list a little bit

[Seanzie]

@Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

Yes for sure, just got a lil busy with the real life but Ive been planning to work on a reads list sometime during this day phase

*cocks an eyebrow at Dana and taps watch expectantly*

yeah yeah..

reads off the top of my head

town:
tangy
seanzie
Alison
jjj
nanook
lost monkey

townlean:
mac
guillo
actv
gnome
sloonei
long con

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

gonna try refine my unsure list a little bit

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

[Sloonei]

He’s town if hawk is town. He’s probably town if not.

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

I don't know if I hope you're right or wrong, and am kind of okay with that.

You do not need to spend any energy worrying about my alignment right now. Jay as well. There are a million things to have happened in this game to suggest he is town: perhaps most importantly is that he has no path to victory here if he’s mafia.

I don’t think you suspect him right now, but I see others continuing to tinfoil him.

[Seanzie]

Speaking of which, where is @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME? I feel like I haven't seen him in ages.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Speaking of which, where is @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME? I feel like I haven't seen him in ages.

I'm around ish

[Seanzie]

I feel like you’ve got this backwards.

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

I don't know if I hope you're right or wrong, and am kind of okay with that.

You do not need to spend any energy worrying about my alignment right now. Jay as well. There are a million things to have happened in this game to suggest he is town: perhaps most importantly is that he has no path to victory here if he’s mafia.

I don’t think you suspect him right now, but I see others continuing to tinfoil him.

Everyone's town!

But no, I see what you're saying, but I disagree (not with JJJ being town, but that the wolves have no path to victory right now). Sure, it feels good to have two scum flipped, but there are 3-4 left, possibly with some 3p madness. We are off to a great start, but are in no way done with this game. I have a hard time believing that you can't see a potential path to victory from a mafia team with an unknown number of players and unknown abilities at their behest, especially since we have a large pool of players who aren't contributing enough to show themselves town, and the people that I think have already towned themselves have kind of dropped off a ton (Alison, Nook, Tangy, etc.). I don't like the sense of complacency I'm getting from you. I feel like it is disguised crankiness. You're trying to act calmer than you are, where in reality, you should not be this "calm", you should not think wolves have no path to victory.

[Seanzie]

Speaking of which, where is @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME? I feel like I haven't seen him in ages.

I'm around ish

Good to see you!

[Dana]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

[Seanzie]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Speaking of which, where is @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME? I feel like I haven't seen him in ages.

I'm around ish

Good to see you!

Thanks

[Dana]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

[Seanzie]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

[Dana]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

huh why?

[Sloonei]

If hawk is town it’s all the more likely that you were the failed N1 kill. Gavial’s block is eliminated.

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

I don't know if I hope you're right or wrong, and am kind of okay with that.

You do not need to spend any energy worrying about my alignment right now. Jay as well. There are a million things to have happened in this game to suggest he is town: perhaps most importantly is that he has no path to victory here if he’s mafia.

I don’t think you suspect him right now, but I see others continuing to tinfoil him.

Everyone's town!

But no, I see what you're saying, but I disagree (not with JJJ being town, but that the wolves have no path to victory right now). Sure, it feels good to have two scum flipped, but there are 3-4 left, possibly with some 3p madness. We are off to a great start, but are in no way done with this game. I have a hard time believing that you can't see a potential path to victory from a mafia team with an unknown number of players and unknown abilities at their behest, especially since we have a large pool of players who aren't contributing enough to show themselves town, and the people that I think have already towned themselves have kind of dropped off a ton (Alison, Nook, Tangy, etc.). I don't like the sense of complacency I'm getting from you. I feel like it is disguised crankiness. You're trying to act calmer than you are, where in reality, you should not be this "calm", you should not think wolves have no path to victory.

I don’t see a path to victory for a wolf team lead by JaggedJimmyJay. He’s not the kind of player who is suited for Final 3 or Final 5 as mafia, or anything close to that. Considering how much success we have had so far early in this game, and the role he has played in that, as well as some other things (the Cupid shot, for instance), I just don’t think there is any way that a Mafia Jay allows this game to unfold the way that it has through Days 1 and 2. He works a lot harder to get somebody other than nutella chopped on Day 1. He does not spearhead the effort to chop Owner Day 2. Another notch is added to all of this if hawk is mafia.

[Seanzie]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

huh why?

Hush, don't worry. You won't die today. We have to kill Hawk first, then we can kill you. Plenty of time for you to spew your few remaining teammates.

[Seanzie]

I see. I am town either way. I was on hawk’s case from the very beginning, ‘member?

This doesn’t matter right now anyway.

What does matter right now? (I know this looks like a throwaway question, but it isn't)

Idk. I’m still taking the day off. Probably continuin to try to read hawk and doing some owner analysis. But that’s not for me at this moment.

I said that because I’ll be resolved before it’s my turn to be on the chopping block.

I don't know if I hope you're right or wrong, and am kind of okay with that.

You do not need to spend any energy worrying about my alignment right now. Jay as well. There are a million things to have happened in this game to suggest he is town: perhaps most importantly is that he has no path to victory here if he’s mafia.

I don’t think you suspect him right now, but I see others continuing to tinfoil him.

Everyone's town!

But no, I see what you're saying, but I disagree (not with JJJ being town, but that the wolves have no path to victory right now). Sure, it feels good to have two scum flipped, but there are 3-4 left, possibly with some 3p madness. We are off to a great start, but are in no way done with this game. I have a hard time believing that you can't see a potential path to victory from a mafia team with an unknown number of players and unknown abilities at their behest, especially since we have a large pool of players who aren't contributing enough to show themselves town, and the people that I think have already towned themselves have kind of dropped off a ton (Alison, Nook, Tangy, etc.). I don't like the sense of complacency I'm getting from you. I feel like it is disguised crankiness. You're trying to act calmer than you are, where in reality, you should not be this "calm", you should not think wolves have no path to victory.

I don’t see a path to victory for a wolf team lead by JaggedJimmyJay. He’s not the kind of player who is suited for Final 3 or Final 5 as mafia, or anything close to that. Considering how much success we have had so far early in this game, and the role he has played in that, as well as some other things (the Cupid shot, for instance), I just don’t think there is any way that a Mafia Jay allows this game to unfold the way that it has through Days 1 and 2. He works a lot harder to get somebody other than nutella chopped on Day 1. He does not spearhead the effort to chop Owner Day 2. Another notch is added to all of this if hawk is mafia.

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Dana]

Are you caught up on the thread right now?

Can you tell me about Nook, Mac and Gnome?

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

huh why?

Hush, don't worry. You won't die today. We have to kill Hawk first, then we can kill you. Plenty of time for you to spew your few remaining teammates.

having teammates would be nice in this big scary mafia game

[Seanzie]

yes im generally caught up but with a good amount of skimming over some parts of the thread so I def might be missing things, but I feel like nook has just kinda been doing his thing which he does and I haven't been particularly pinged by anything he's said or done yet. I had a lil tinfoil about Mac but I think its been getting better and I also am willing to ignore it for now bc I think its worth finding the shallow wolves first before trying to hunt for deep wolves. my gnome read is probably my weakest townlean and I might need to update that read, but i think it was just a holdover in my brain from earlier on in the game

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

huh why?

Hush, don't worry. You won't die today. We have to kill Hawk first, then we can kill you. Plenty of time for you to spew your few remaining teammates.

having teammates would be nice in this big scary mafia game

Was it Owner or Sonny who coached you in pocketing Gnome?

[Dana]

Have you ever randed scum before? If not, how do you like it?

only once in a turbo game many years ago and tbh I kind of hated it lol, thankfully it was over real quick though and I was caught pretty easily and early on from what I remember

Yeah, okay. I didn't want to believe it, but Dana bad.

huh why?

Hush, don't worry. You won't die today. We have to kill Hawk first, then we can kill you. Plenty of time for you to spew your few remaining teammates.

having teammates would be nice in this big scary mafia game

Was it Owner or Sonny who coached you in pocketing Gnome?

gnome pocketed me!!

[MartinGG99]

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

[Seanzie]

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

hello nice to meet you! im excited to hang with so many new people and also see some old friends that I haven't chilled with in a while, and im nervous bc im not very good at mafia and I am very susceptible to being pocketed so I feel like I gotta watch my back and have a nice healthy dose of paranoia at all times

Hi, I am a Gnome! I spend a lot of time in the garden so I don't go out on very many dates. I understand about feeling nervous and excited and about the need to have a healthy dose of paranoia because I too get pcoketed a lot by eager scum! They are so charming that I end up on and I am not even aware of all of the noisy howls It is very sad. I am looking for a sweet towny date and feel nervous and excited about finding romance, despite the presence of scummy scum scum!

hi! what kind of plants do you grow in your garden? it sounds like it must be such a nice place to live. I feel like its gonna be hard to find someone with the same non-killing views but you seem to be okay so far!

Tell me more about how Gnome pocketed you.

[Dana]

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

I do agree that one of you is town and the other mafia im just not sold on who's who

[Dana]

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

hello nice to meet you! im excited to hang with so many new people and also see some old friends that I haven't chilled with in a while, and im nervous bc im not very good at mafia and I am very susceptible to being pocketed so I feel like I gotta watch my back and have a nice healthy dose of paranoia at all times

Hi, I am a Gnome! I spend a lot of time in the garden so I don't go out on very many dates. I understand about feeling nervous and excited and about the need to have a healthy dose of paranoia because I too get pcoketed a lot by eager scum! They are so charming that I end up on and I am not even aware of all of the noisy howls It is very sad. I am looking for a sweet towny date and feel nervous and excited about finding romance, despite the presence of scummy scum scum!

hi! what kind of plants do you grow in your garden? it sounds like it must be such a nice place to live. I feel like its gonna be hard to find someone with the same non-killing views but you seem to be okay so far!

Tell me more about how Gnome pocketed you.

ok maybe we got in each others pockets a little bit.. but they are town pockets! or at least mine is and I hope hers is too

[Sloonei]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

My original comment was always about my read on Jay, and I think that was quite clear. Why did you interpret it as me being defeatist about the gamestate in general?

[MartinGG99]

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

I do agree that one of you is town and the other mafia im just not sold on who's who

Yeah but what I'm saying is that you would know that, and if you were mafia I would imagine you would have something more expressive on it than a readslist.

Given that mafia are currently in a bad position trying to secure their positions or standing could be preety important; normally that means taking stances. Otherwise you just fade in the background and perhaps not really move in people's read of you at all. At least in my view.

That said, not having a stance (more or less) here only seems non-mafia to me. I have no intuition telling me if this is just simply being town or not, though.

[Seanzie]

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

hello nice to meet you! im excited to hang with so many new people and also see some old friends that I haven't chilled with in a while, and im nervous bc im not very good at mafia and I am very susceptible to being pocketed so I feel like I gotta watch my back and have a nice healthy dose of paranoia at all times

Hi, I am a Gnome! I spend a lot of time in the garden so I don't go out on very many dates. I understand about feeling nervous and excited and about the need to have a healthy dose of paranoia because I too get pcoketed a lot by eager scum! They are so charming that I end up on and I am not even aware of all of the noisy howls It is very sad. I am looking for a sweet towny date and feel nervous and excited about finding romance, despite the presence of scummy scum scum!

hi! what kind of plants do you grow in your garden? it sounds like it must be such a nice place to live. I feel like its gonna be hard to find someone with the same non-killing views but you seem to be okay so far!

Tell me more about how Gnome pocketed you.

ok maybe we got in each others pockets a little bit.. but they are town pockets! or at least mine is and I hope hers is too

Okay, thanks. I poked and you did okay. I still haven't sorted you yet, but I don't see you as clear mafia right now, so that is a good sign?

[Seanzie]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

My original comment was always about my read on Jay, and I think that was quite clear. Why did you interpret it as me being defeatist about the gamestate in general?

Uhh... if you're town you should see that as me interpreting you as overly confident in town's success, not as defeatist.

[Dana]

unsure:
hawk
made
sonny/orangecrush
allcrab
Martin
bad bunny

I would mildly doubt that mafia would right now would take the "idk" stance here when I think for most people its fairly obvious there's one town and one mafia in Martin/Hawk (and therefore have some sort of stance).

It just looks non-mafia to me given the circumstances.

I do agree that one of you is town and the other mafia im just not sold on who's who

Yeah but what I'm saying is that you would know that, and if you were mafia I would imagine you would have something more expressive on it than a readslist.

Given that mafia are currently in a bad position trying to secure their positions or standing could be preety important; normally that means taking stances. Otherwise you just fade in the background and perhaps not really move in people's read of you at all. At least in my view.

That said, not having a stance (more or less) here only seems non-mafia to me. I have no intuition telling me if this is just simply being town or not, though.

yeah that's fair. so do you think hawk's entire team is bussing her? if hawk ends up flipping town, where would you look next?

[Sloonei]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

My original comment was always about my read on Jay, and I think that was quite clear. Why did you interpret it as me being defeatist about the gamestate in general?

Uhh... if you're town you should see that as me interpreting you as overly confident in town's success, not as defeatist.

I don't like the sense of complacency I'm getting from you. I feel like it is disguised crankiness. You're trying to act calmer than you are, where in reality, you should not be this "calm", you should not think wolves have no path to victory.

[Seanzie]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

My original comment was always about my read on Jay, and I think that was quite clear. Why did you interpret it as me being defeatist about the gamestate in general?

Uhh... if you're town you should see that as me interpreting you as overly confident in town's success, not as defeatist.

I don't like the sense of complacency I'm getting from you. I feel like it is disguised crankiness. You're trying to act calmer than you are, where in reality, you should not be this "calm", you should not think wolves have no path to victory.

Oh, that part. Well yeah, I read you as overly confident in town's success, but not in an excited way. You don't vibe as happy about the current game state, but you do seem confident in town's chances. How else should I resolve these two, possibly conflicting, feelings I am getting from you?

[hawkataine]

You've probably already been answered but I'm here now, so; JaggedJimmyJay meet Garden Gnome. She not only encourages tunneling on her, she will pick up a shovel herself and assist your digging. Even if she posts something like "my welcome email said I was scum" it doesn't mean she is scum [true story, nearly]. Watch for her focus on solving, apparently. /not great at reading her

This is a whole load of nothing but I feel like I could see Sonny/Gnome here.

I'm still responding to page 1 of 15, not there yet. I'm really curious about why a wagon is on Act.

I can see why those who don't know Act are suspect, her first question really is redundant, but I think it's largely around people not knowing her. Her question to Dana was what I was thinking when I saw the nervous post and I think it's valid to expect those who don't know Gnome to be suspect of her. Anyway, catch up.

He's not wrong, but this is a bit of a soft defense of Gnome, combined with telling owner to catch up which proceeds to happen a lot and reads a bit like a frustrated teammate.

Lol, I am most definitely an old man, I'm just unable to run my normal game which involves scraping the thread into a worksheet that automatically formats everything so I can observe any interaction I want and reference any previous quote while watching trends. I like data. With my memory it feels necessary to have a good game. That said, your ISO function is good so meh.

To be fair I can believe that this would be throwing town!Sonny off his game and demotivating him.

I thought most Syndicate players had Nutella as townie, no? Why is Jay reading them as town wrong? Did I miss something here?

Also, when did Jay call Owner town, she only just started playing?

This is a bit nitpicky but I do feel like the statement on nutella could be indicative of a teammate who doesn't have to try to read her. Or it could be cross-community struggles.

Guys, I actually don't enjoy being town read, I mean, do you, but I could be scum yaknow.

Actually, I think I'm just not used to having town reads thrown out like glitter. There are a lot. A lot a lot.

This is pretty much just a character judgement, but from what I know of town!Sonny, I think he's a lot happier upon arriving to a site where lots of town reads are the norm. I think he probably enjoys working with people in the thread. I think he probably doesn't seem this concerned about the number of town reads.

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

I believe this to be a real thought, which means I probably think Sonny/LoMo is mildly unlikely.

GTH swipes, sorta (call the left swipes POE more than "mafia reads")

Spoiler: show

Best Reads List Ever! Props for effort.

Definitely still have an unwavering Syndicate bias though. So if you're town, then best yeet would be Made in this scenario. Why are they scummy to you?

So the only non-PerC player that JJJ had as a scum read was made, while he also had owner as a scum read. I think it's a bit of a leap of logic to then be like "okay so that means you can't trust your reads on the PerC players, let's just focus on Made for now," which might suggest teaming with owner.

Montage of Sonny being irritated/concerned that owner isn't around and trying to get useful posts out of her:

Spoiler: show

@Sonny, did you give a read on Owner? If not, what do you think of her?

Felt like she was here for 2 minutes, posted next to nothing of value, didn't read everything, than left. I was, err, underwhelmed. I expect left-of-centre from her, not meh.

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

Where are you up to?

Do you have any reads?

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Let's see how this feels.

Tell me things, Owner.

(also, psst, Nutella said "Spicy", check it out!)

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

Back in the day, lomo was who I would sometimes aspire to be in terms of town players. He had these incredible reads and scum fear killed him regularly at some point. But his play nowadays isn't quite what I remember of it. I'll have to read his posts. I don't know. Just coming into this site, I see the vote count more frequently than I usually see a vote count on PerC/MafiaCafe. So I'm calling it out. I'm like hey I don't know how long wagons have been there, but anything above 3 votes generally makes me suspicious of the wagon itself.

Keep reading, but please do remember
... there are 24 players, 3 votes is a blip.

(I read this as "don't worry about the people who have voted you even though I'm one of them", like if that vote wasn't for pressure then what was it for? probably distancing imo)

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

What about Nook unvoting fills you with awe?

What’s shady about not catching up?

I’d like thought processes backing up accusations please.

I'm used to Nook not voting D1 and/or being coy/non-compliant about sharing any scum reads because, say it with me folks "I don't believe in scum reads". If he's town I value his reads so I'm interested that he's voted Nutella with a bunch of other Syndicate players.

It's sketchy that she keeps mentioning that she needs to catch up, then not doing it, then complaining about it etc. Catch up or don't. Harp on it though and it feels like, err, what's the word here, eugh, like "I can't give decent reasons for anything I say because I'm not up to date" so I'll keep reminding you I'm not up to date so you don't hold it against me.

Sonny sorry if you've already weighed in on this but what are your current takes on LoMo and Owner?

LoMo's feels okay to me, I thought his call out on Nutella and the 'could unvote' thing was good. I'm still waiting to see town!Owner, I don't care about the wording stuff, that's Owner being Owner, she just feels 'not here'.

This whole set of posts really seems like Sonny is waiting for owner to get with the program so that he can justifiably slap a town read on her. It doesn't scream to me that he's actually trying to read her.

Then there's this sequence where Mac asks Sonny to vote Nutella (his vote is currently on owner) and Sonny is like yeah sure (with dodgy reasoning) and then has a questionable reaction when Mac changes his mind

@Sonny vote nutella

Lol, sure

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I actually have a meh read on them anyway, only note is the insta town read on Kito which must have been a joke but yall are dropping so many sincere townreads over air so who the hell knows anymore.

I suddenly townread nutella

This is Sonny's Nutella interactions post:

Spoiler: show

Scha-weet!

Read Nutella's interactions overnight and this is what I take from it (well all but the last page where she was just open wolfing imo). Haven't caught up on today yet so it's unevolved.

Actvscenei: Says first post is wolfy. Gave awk vibes. Had TMI on Tang. Changed to Act may just be like this. Says voted Act for backtracking on Tang. Backs off Act - Mentions/interacts with her a bit but is kinda meh overall

Guillotine: Feels like Guillo pushed her while she walked it back - Strong town reads him, says he isn't understanding/reading her posts right when challenged - probably okay

Garden Gnome: Said her entry sounded fine, nothing in it

Kito: Calls town for his first post what even the what. Why is Kito opportunisitc about Act (to Mac), jumped on someone calling Kito scum. Seems to defend Kito for whatever that means - possibly teamed (need to review)

lost monkey: Had lots to say about him, he called her out early and she encourages people to look at him via shading, a lot - Lock!Town

hawkataine: 1 interaction to her intro post - meh

Owner of a Lonely Heart: Owner calls her scum for a weird word, she seems to push owner forward although votes LoMo, keeps her name out there though - Probably town

Belzy: No interactions

Seanzie: No interactions

bad bunny: No interactions

Allcrab: No interactions

Gavial: Not much from Nutella's side, Gavial seems to push her though - says "save Owner vote Nut" like - probably town

JaggedJimmyJay: A lot of interaction, calls strong town seems to be responding to Jay more than anything else

Sloonei: Timing of Sloonei vote probably means little, not much else

Alison: Didn't like Alison having her in her PoE, vibed as real annoyance - probably town

Tangrowth: A decent amount of OT with Tang. Says "Tangy's just town" early, seems likely unteamed, keeps town read down. Sheeps Tang's reads exactly even though they didn't align with what she was saying. If teamed would have drawn it out - Townie

MacDougall: Fobs Mac off a lot and doesn't give serious answers, placating, says he's seeking reactions when calling her scum, timing of his vote/toying with her is good - Townie

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME: Votes Nook, not a lot there, liked his vote tho - Probably townie

MartinGG99: Calls Martin town because "I guess sheeping Alison", says the same thing again later, low effort here - dunno

Made: Minimal interaction, asks for reads, wants their take on LoMo and Owner. Counterwagon tho so meh

Long Con: No interactions

Dana: Wolf wouldn't say "nervous", soft backs off Act to Dana, minimal - dunno

The thing that stands out most to me is the equal town reads on nanook and owner based on nutella interactions. That doesn't seem reasonable, especially when Sonny was previously like "I value town!Nanook's reads and am therefore interested that he's voting Nutella" on D1.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

rly tho

If you're a flower vendor, why not say who you visited? Or at least say "no it wasn't Jay"?

She dodged Sean's question, even if it is a fake trap, it's a poor reaction.

To be fair to Sonny, if he bussed, he committed pretty hard pretty early. I don't think that's outside his range, but it's probably towards the more ruthless end of it.

OoO! Fun! Sonny, you also tried to distract me with Kito. I like this!

Distract you from what?

Owner.

I'm catching up on today's posts.

Even if you were reaction testing her, her reaction pinged me, so carry on.

I couldn't find what Seanzie was talking about here (I had changed ISO page already and my time is very valuable lol) but it's probably worth including here at least

Eh, don't really mind Hawks reaction to Gavial's red check.

Exhibit A

Why not. Let's see how this sits.

[VOTE: hawkataine] aubergine

He makes this vote once he realises Gav isn't joking (presumably why he liked my reaction as well). Sonny was my co-mod on gav's scum game on MafC recently and I think that would give him a decent basis to be like yes this is a player who would joke about that. In which case the question is, upon seeing a claimed redcheck from a player like gav, is it reasonable to assume he's joking, or do you have to know that I didn't have the kill to make that assumption?
Also his vote on me is terrible given that he liked my reaction and the redcheck isn't a real redcheck. Easy way to distract from his owner suspicion.

Oh yay, I caught up to my own posts finally and am reminded why I had Owner as scummy. I don't know if I'm misremembering, but I feel as though there's been a game where she fake claimed vendor as scum. Would have to search tho.



I'm at Owner, Belzy, Bunny and fine to see where the Hawk thing goes.

Again, doesn't vote owner. He's not seeing where the hawk thing goes, because he already said he liked my reaction. The reaction test has happened. Finito.

20+ pages behind and a run away wagon on Owner, so... things happened? X D

Lol wait, Owner is voting Tang after the Belzy shot?



[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Of all the reasons to choose to finally vote owner, this is not the one I would have gone with, given that all of his earlier suspicion still stands. I think it shows a lack of progression in his read on her. Still, it would have to be his second bus in as many days, so I guess there's that going for him.

The review was of Nutella posts only like literally her ISO posts, there's been a lot more since then including the D1 wagon review I did where Owner's vote was a ? against her. Tbf there's been 1 thing I'd been expecting to see from Owner that has never come and it's a big long reads lists with weird reads that makes you squint your eyes but shows me she's reading things and considering. I've only seen her in one game recently and I was spectating, but a post just like that was what gave me enough to get a town read on her. She hasn't even come close to that imo. Maybe her role is legit, but I still think it's non-town.

And this is a pretty harsh bus, as well as alluding to the thing that Sonny's allegedly been waiting to see from her all this time.

TL;DR: If Sonny's scum, he would have had to make two busses, he did shade owner since D1, and I can believe that he got burnt out on an unfamiliar site. That said, he was very noncommital on nutella, he left himself a loophole to start town reading owner at any time and could have encouraged her to do that in scum chat, and his vote on me is terrible, as well as me just not seeing the kind of enthusiasm he normally has as town. So I'm putting it at about 76% mafia. No reason to think he's 3P.