The Fall of Númenor - Game Over!

[MacDougall]

probably gavial then at f3 I am forced to vote based on however you snap.

[Syn]

look

[Syn]

listen

[Syn]

you see,

[Syn]

kami where you at

[MacDougall]

Day 1 - Mostly bad reads.
Day 2 - Continue to have mostly bad reads
Day 3 - Still has bad reads... but votes for a wolf anyway when I didn't have to.
Day 4 - Still have bad reads but vote for another wolf anyway when I didn't have to.
Day 5 - Now I'm concerned about my bad reads. I don't want to go to f3. I am faced with a situation where I overwhelmingly want to win now because the alternatives are terrible. F3 with 2 of Syn, Kami and Gavial. Please fuck no. If we chop syn today and its wrong town probably loses cuz both gavial and kami seem to want to kill me. I probably can't get syn chopped in f3 cuz Kami/Gavial will probs tunnel me. So even tho I am tinfoiling Syn I think I kinda have to ride or die with my initial read. I think the dead town legacy has been mostly that Gavial is the better chop between he and Kami so I'll start there.

[Marmot]

Have you even read any of my posts today Mac? I'm literally confirmed town, but you're listening to the dead townies?

[Gavial]

Although if Mac is scum it makes sense why they would try and pull the 180 on Syn.

it makes zero sense actually

How?
As scum you would want more options for an ML.

[Gavial]

I want to open up a creature deli and serve up some marmot

Marmot you say?
You haven’t mentioned them much why do you read them as scum or partners with creature/Deli?

This is also a notable post. Gavial asks Syn why he thinks I (confirmed town) are partnered with Creature/Deli (confirmed scum), especially considering Syn mentioned us all in the capacity in his sentence, and that Gavial opted to split the three people up based on their alignments.

It is true that Syn hadn't talked about me much to this point, but he hadn't talked about Creature either. Syn's ISO to this point had treated Creature and I essentially the same, though Gavial did not treat it this way.

“Serve up so Marmot”
That’s what caught me off guard to respond that way.

[Gavial]

Esooa didn't say which of Kami and Gavial to go with

reeeeee

No, they came to the same team conclusion that Nanook did.
But that conclusion is wrong.

[Gavial]

Kami surprised me with their vote for Creature yesterday, ngl. I do think Creature and his partner had a chance to push my yeet, so Kami not eventually doing that does have me scratching my head a little bit.

Well TBF, it was me talking about creature that made Kami vote them.

[MacDougall]

Have you even read any of my posts today Mac? I'm literally confirmed town, but you're listening to the dead townies?

I have. You're also fine with gavial. What's your point?

[MacDougall]

Although if Mac is scum it makes sense why they would try and pull the 180 on Syn.

it makes zero sense actually

How?
As scum you would want more options for an ML.

I only need 2.

[Gavial]

Fwiw, Gavial did immediately accept the Nanook result before talking himself out of it and scumreading Nanook.

Yeah when I realized there was a possibility he could have been scum fake claiming and realize how Nanook would totally make that kind of move, I push it.
I was wrong. My bad.

[Gavial]

I came into the day with my order of suspicion being Kami > Gavial > Mac > Syn, but now I suspect Gav pretty firmly over the other two.

I suppose I can understand why to an extent, but like do you honestly think I would do what I did as scum to Nanook?
I could have just went with the flow like Creature if I was scum but I didn’t, instead I pushed Nanook and even formed a case on them that you should remember.

I even shielded you against Mac’s push and comparing you with deli.
Like if Mac is scum it makes sense that Mac tried to make you and deli look aligned because then if you died before creature he would only need to ML 1 player instead of 2.

[MacDougall]

One day you'll read me right.

[Gavial]

It would also make sense because it felt Creature/Deli felt pretty comfortable dying.
Also the WimI save by Esooa. Didn’t Mac and WimI have major interactions day 1?

I don't think Creature was comfortable dying. Deli most definitely, (especially looking at Creature's bussing of him), but Creature I don't think so. If Creature was comfortable with it, I assume that means that he was likely being bussed. Mac was doing everything but bussing Creature.


Also, I don't know, did they have major interactions Day 1? What does that mean?

But I mean as I said before Deli’s JK claim on Mac could be a scum setup thus why creature was ok with dying because of confidence with Mac.
If Syn is their partner it works the same.
Kami on the other hand I’m conflicted on. Like why would creature be comfortable with Kami?

You even seen it marmot. You know how Mac and WimI treated each other day 1.

[Gavial]

Mac could have thought they looked Townie after thus setup for night kill.
Or even maybe thought they were PR or something.

[Kami]

[VOTE: mac] aubergine
I'm gonna keep voting the obvious wolf

[Gavial]

Have you even read any of my posts today Mac? I'm literally confirmed town, but you're listening to the dead townies?

But don’t you want to lynch me too?

[Kami]

Acually, looking back at Kami's Day 3, I feel worse there lol. They called Deli town the whole day, and voted Mac, Nanook and Syn.

Kami's Day 4 wasn't great. They never talked about Creature, and only talked about me when I associated them with Creature. They then accused me of lying when I pointed out that Deli was trying to yeet Mac on Day 2. But Kami eventually voted for Creature despite being in a position where it made more sense to vote for me, and it happened after I acknowledged their argument and that I didn't fully understand their behavior.

It's the one thing that makes me think Kami is possibly town. As scum, they were incentivized to yeet me yesterday, but chose to back off of their OMGUS of me when I also backed off.


Also, esooa's legacy is that Kami is town.

Bruh I never OMGUS you or even said I was going to vote you, but you are 100% being a liar if you can't see that deli is w/w with mac

[Syn]

Kami please

[Kami]

Deli's post calling me v and mac w right before dying shows she wanted to spew mac V the entire game

[Kami]

Kami please

LOL if it's not mac it's you so why are you appealing to me

[Gavial]

Alright well if that’s the case I hope you guys find the last scum in the F3.
If you do want me to live then who’s going today.
Although the way I see it is like this.

If I die today Kami is always tunnelling Mac in F3 so if it’s Syn we lose.
If Syn dies today then I’ll be forced to choose between the two 1v1’er which I’d rather not have that over my chest.
If Mac dies today. Then it should be a more clear minded F3 same as if Kami dies.

Mac or Kami.
That’s who I’m voting today.
@Marmot
Give me one.

[Kami]

Mac calls me wolf all game yet is pushing for gavial today so he can push me tomorrow

transparent tbh

[Marmot]

You even seen it marmot. You know how Mac and WimI treated each other day 1.

Can you explain to me what you're seeing there?

[MacDougall]

Mac calls me wolf all game yet is pushing for gavial today so he can push me tomorrow

transparent tbh

annoying

[Marmot]

Acually, looking back at Kami's Day 3, I feel worse there lol. They called Deli town the whole day, and voted Mac, Nanook and Syn.

Kami's Day 4 wasn't great. They never talked about Creature, and only talked about me when I associated them with Creature. They then accused me of lying when I pointed out that Deli was trying to yeet Mac on Day 2. But Kami eventually voted for Creature despite being in a position where it made more sense to vote for me, and it happened after I acknowledged their argument and that I didn't fully understand their behavior.

It's the one thing that makes me think Kami is possibly town. As scum, they were incentivized to yeet me yesterday, but chose to back off of their OMGUS of me when I also backed off.


Also, esooa's legacy is that Kami is town.

Bruh I never OMGUS you or even said I was going to vote you, but you are 100% being a liar if you can't see that deli is w/w with mac

1) OMGUS is not a bad thing lol. It's just a description for when Player A suspects Player B, and Player B in turn suspects them back. That is what you did yesterday, I said you looked cornered, and you responded by scumreading me and calling me a liar. OMGUS is a natural response from a townie who feels they're being suspected for dumb or insincere reasons imo.

2) Stop calling me a liar, ok? Saying that implies that I'm intentionally saying something that I know is not a truth. I am not intentionally lying, that is what I saw in Deli's handling of Mac. We can disagree on that, but it doesn't make me a liar. And anyway, you could only feel so strongly about my "lying" if you actually knew Deli's true motives were something different, and even then, it would just be TMI on your part from being their teammate.

[MacDougall]

@Marmot confirmed town. Seems relatively pro Mac, and pro Syn. This needs to be recognised. This immediately means it's going to be harder to chop outside those worlds and that may not necessarily be a bad thing. At least I can blame him if he's wrong.

@Kami has been tunneling me for near on the entire game. Is putting me in a difficult situation doing so. Refusing to see anything I am doing through positive lenses. Appears to be in Syn/Mac world (if it's not Mac, it's you). Why not Gavial? My gut says this is a town tunneling me, and Esooa's read was the same. When I consider reasons I have had to be sus of Kami, it has mostly been based on omgus, which is irrational and I should look past that. Outside of omgus, Kami just feels like a tunneling town (Miss Sparkles anyone).

@Gavial feels a bit more desperate, nervous, cornered than Kami. What's Kami's path to victory here? Flip me and then what? Die in F3? Gavial is putting forth more effort to appear town. Also putting me top of their POE. Gavial, why would I bother tinfoiling Syn when both the confirmed town, and Syn appear to be reasonably willing to just let me win by killing you and Kami? That line doesn't make sense to me.

@Syn appears ready and willing to commit to just chopping Gavial/Kami. I have tinfoil of Syn, but given the situation (Marmot's reads, the way that Gavial/Kami appear to want me to die), I am going to have a very hard time not just losing to wolf Syn. I did read Syn's mid game earlier today and was left feeling a little bit ... underwhelmed. I thought they were more confirmed than they are. The Creature flip in particular doesn't do as much for their alignment as Marmot being a wolf would have. I could make a pretty decent case on Syn I think. But I'll only bother if we're going to actually chop the dude, which really is up to the rest of you.

[Syn]

oh shit I gotta get us to maj Gavial before you can do that

[MacDougall]

ie. if Gavial and Kami are just going to leave Syn alone and tunnel me instead, and if Marmot is content with Syn, then I'd rather just auto the game towards the people pushing me for bad reasons and lost to potential wolf Syn than expand energy on a foregone conclusion.

[Gavial]

Honestly it’s probably better for me to deal with Mac in F3 if they are scum.
Better then Kami and them in F3.
@MacDougall
Can you explain why you didn’t read Syn the way you do now before. Like what stood out as Townie to them before and does it still apply now?

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

[MacDougall]

Honestly it’s probably better for me to deal with Mac in F3 if they are scum.
Better then Kami and them in F3.
@MacDougall
Can you explain why you didn’t read Syn the way you do now before. Like what stood out as Townie to them before and does it still apply now?

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

What a strange mentality. What happens to dealing with me in f3 if I am town?

Sounds to me like you know that it's you or Kami today so you're just making shit up to get your vote where it needs to be.

I am reading Syn as probably town but I was confidently reading him town with preflip disassociatives with Marmot. He is more compatible with Creature than he was with Marmot so his clear is not as strong as I thought.

I'm not unvoting you today, this post is outing.

[Syn]

hmmmmmmmm

[Kami]

That's a lil sus gavial

[Kami]

You're basically saying "I'm gonna misslynch kami today and someone else tomorrow"

[Kami]

i dont really care if you guys lynch me not game losing but you need to vote mac tomorrow.
The post of deli purposefully calling me v and him w will make it even more obvious they were w/w if u flip me anyways

[Kami]

Kami/Mac v/w makes a lot of sense too tbh

Only reason she made this post was cause she knew I'd look bad for hard defending her and mac would look good cause of her push and this was her final spew

[Gavial]

Honestly it’s probably better for me to deal with Mac in F3 if they are scum.
Better then Kami and them in F3.
@MacDougall
Can you explain why you didn’t read Syn the way you do now before. Like what stood out as Townie to them before and does it still apply now?

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

What a strange mentality. What happens to dealing with me in f3 if I am town?

Sounds to me like you know that it's you or Kami today so you're just making shit up to get your vote where it needs to be.

I am reading Syn as probably town but I was confidently reading him town with preflip disassociatives with Marmot. He is more compatible with Creature than he was with Marmot so his clear is not as strong as I thought.

I'm not unvoting you today, this post is outing.

If you are town and Syn is scum, I’ll figure it out.
I look through everything and determine who the scum is within the two of you.
I can call my post outing if you want but I’m town here.

[Gavial]

Also I don’t remember you voting me Mac.

[Gavial]

i dont really care if you guys lynch me not game losing but you need to vote mac tomorrow.
The post of deli purposefully calling me v and him w will make it even more obvious they were w/w if u flip me anyways

If your town.
There’s no way we lynch scum today.
Marmot won’t vote Syn and probably won’t vote Mac from the looks of it.

[Gavial]

The best thing to do is settle the F3 but we need to do that without tunnel vision.

[MacDougall]

The best thing to do is chop the mafia now and if its neither of you you're making it impossible by tunneling me.

[MacDougall]

i dont really care if you guys lynch me not game losing but you need to vote mac tomorrow.
The post of deli purposefully calling me v and him w will make it even more obvious they were w/w if u flip me anyways

If your town.
There’s no way we lynch scum today.
Marmot won’t vote Syn and probably won’t vote Mac from the looks of it.

see @Marmot its all your fault

[Kami]

i dont really care if you guys lynch me not game losing but you need to vote mac tomorrow.
The post of deli purposefully calling me v and him w will make it even more obvious they were w/w if u flip me anyways

If your town.
There’s no way we lynch scum today.
Marmot won’t vote Syn and probably won’t vote Mac from the looks of it.

I don't really care if we win today or tomorrow just vote mac f3

[MacDougall]

i dont really care if you guys lynch me not game losing but you need to vote mac tomorrow.
The post of deli purposefully calling me v and him w will make it even more obvious they were w/w if u flip me anyways

If your town.
There’s no way we lynch scum today.
Marmot won’t vote Syn and probably won’t vote Mac from the looks of it.

I don't really care if we win today or tomorrow just vote mac f3

If you are town I am gonna need you to retire honestly.

[MacDougall]

I can't work out which of you make less sense.

[MacDougall]

Kami/Mac v/w makes a lot of sense too tbh

Ok so they are both V if you flip W.
Got it!

Interesting you had this perspective at the time but now that Kami is using it to argue that it makes me a wolf you have nothing to say about your original impression of the post...

[MacDougall]

If Gavial dying doesn't end the game the cross vote at f3 is always Kami/Mac even if I have my doubts about Syn. Yay.