Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Marmot]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

Call me crazy, but you haven't done the scumtell that I'm accustomed to seeing from you, but I need a sanity check on that.

[cassandra]

ok, here's a specific example on JJJ i'm thinking. i didn't really get the point of him questioning me on my lime coke read basis or what he was trying to gain from that. i thought it had to do with his read on me then when i showed up he made it sound like it was about his read on lime coke.. it was just confusing/unclear to me? i'm having a hard time following his approach to solving this game.

[iaafr]

usually to get a sanity check you have to like, reveal the tell/read you need checked

[staypositivefriend]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

Call me crazy, but you haven't done the scumtell that I'm accustomed to seeing from you, but I need a sanity check on that.

is it the "language pattern" thing you pointed out in the congress of vienna game?

[cassandra]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

yeah i sorta realized that while typing it out, it was something i had mentally used to call you town then realized that specific take may not hold to scrutiny

cassandra is always going to be one of those slots that im perpetually paranoid about, but i think her posting in the last few pages is very towny

fwiw i'm like 90% sure i could make you townread me regardless of my alignment and you weren't one of the people i was referring to when said some people in this game have good reads on me so that's reasonable at least lmao

[Marmot]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

Call me crazy, but you haven't done the scumtell that I'm accustomed to seeing from you, but I need a sanity check on that.

is it the "language pattern" thing you pointed out in the congress of vienna game?

For any other confused parties, as scum, SPF kept using phrases like "call me crazy but" or "... if no one else feels this way, I might just be nuts" coupled with reads/statements, which I called her out on.

[anne]

i don't think anyone in this game has a good read on cassandra

[Marmot]

though, Marmot's jump on me was like exactly one of the stupid NAI things i'd use to jump on someone as scum if i was playing a lazy scum game, the only reason i townread it aside from the note i made was the absolute lack of progression from having me as "an easy read, strongest TR" to voting me over TMI for something so obviously not TMI that scum probably wouldn't think to make up something so bizarre.

---

I'm squinting at both JJJ and Mac.

can you talk about your read on JJJ a bit more? i know youve mentioned that you felt that he has been "off" in some way (and i actually think that marmot nailed the description of why it might feel that way, because it is true that JJJ is focused more on posting individual observations than he is on dialoguing directly with other players), but im not sure if him being "off" is a reason to wolfread him within itself. im having a hard time getting a grasp on JJJ in this game in general, so i wanna talk about him more

Marmot's description was decent, yeah. i dunno. he's not playing in the way i'd expect him to as town, but my track record of reading people based on that premise is pretty low. i just don't see him really putting the same energy into developing reads/creating a consensus and such as usual. his explanation about it being about the game VS. player base is reasonable, and he's probably more in null territory for me aorn. i'd love to have our first V/V game together and i'd be sad if it was spent by me being suspicious of him the whole game so i kind of just want to see how he plays out?

Are you talking about me here, or JJJ?

Leetic/ilario would presumably die at the same time right? Like one of them couldn't be yeeted while the other lives, nor could one be nightkilled while the other lives?

They're a hydra that can post and vote separately. They are the same slot. They are not masons who occupy separate slots. That's how I'm viewing the leetic/ilario thing.


I just don't think it's a good idea to automatically take that as a town role. I think the selection of the wording "They are confirmed town to each other" is incorrect, because while they are probably the same alignment, they are not inherently town.

I get that it would be weird for scum to have a scum chat, and then have a separate chat for the two players that have the same slot. But that take is dangerous, because it's making the read that the mod essentially cleared the slot town on setup. That's what I mean by the mod-confirmed town statement.

saying they're confirmed the same alignment to each other or they're confirmed town to each other is literally the same exact thing fmpov, because obviously mafia is going to claim to be town. like it's literally just linguistics. and "they're mod confirmed town" =/= "confirmed town to each other." i like to look at it this way (confirmed town to each other rather than confirmed the same alignment to each other) because it means if i feel confident that one is town then i can feel confident the other is and it helps me with my POE, but i'm not saying they shouldn't be scrutinized - just that they shouldn't be scrutinized on an individual basis.

my town read on ilario is completely outside of the claim.

My concern is with the fact that you called them town, not that they would visibly explain that they are both town.

But yes, it was probably an overreaction on my part.

[iaafr]

i don't think anyone in this game has a good read on cassandra

but im correctly townreading her this game

[anne]

also spf says stuff like that regardless of alignment. a good way to read SPF tho is to annoy her as much as possible and see how she reacts

[anne]

like right now:

SPF i think you're scummy and i don't agree with your own self-meta. it's been a while since i've seen you wolf, but i notice as wolf you will post longer posts that are extremely detailed only to seem townie off of sheer effort. i don't think we're far enough in the game tho for you to have any posts like that regardless, but your earlier posts being so long and detailed but yet lacking pinged me a bit.

for example, you said you had reads on me and iaafr but were waiting to discuss them (or something like that, im paraphrasing) then not long after said iaafr had pinged you a bit, which i can only assume means you think im pinging you a bit. so if i take that and your recent post saying you don't like my posts partly for OMGUS reasons, then what's the other part?

[Marmot]

also spf says stuff like that regardless of alignment. a good way to read SPF tho is to annoy her as much as possible and see how she reacts

My research into SPF from two scum games and one town games says that is not the case, but sure, it is a small sample size.

Regardless, I am feeling better about her now than I was before.

I'll leave it up to you to annoy her into making her an easy read.

[staypositivefriend]

Marmot's description was decent, yeah. i dunno. he's not playing in the way i'd expect him to as town, but my track record of reading people based on that premise is pretty low. i just don't see him really putting the same energy into developing reads/creating a consensus and such as usual. his explanation about it being about the game VS. player base is reasonable, and he's probably more in null territory for me aorn. i'd love to have our first V/V game together and i'd be sad if it was spent by me being suspicious of him the whole game so i kind of just want to see how he plays out?

okay, thanks. something i've been thinking about is the fact that the majority of jagged's reads so far have aligned with the consensus/are reads that the rest of the thread came around to agreeing to, which indicates to me that even in a world where jagged is a wolf, he's not actively trying to pull the game in a different direction. if the current POE is largely "correct" or largely headed in the right direction, then that might be an argument for him being town, but i'm not sure if i believe in this read now that im typing it out

i usually find jagged's process very easy to track/understand as well, and ive seen glimpses of that same solving process (like him mindmelding with me about NAA's posts on page 13 being kind of wolfy) even if i havent seen enough for me to feel comfortable calling him town

[staypositivefriend]

also spf says stuff like that regardless of alignment. a good way to read SPF tho is to annoy her as much as possible and see how she reacts

unironically good advice

(i dont think that marmot's meta is 100% accurate but it's not really something i consider to be worth splitting hairs about)

[anne]

also spf says stuff like that regardless of alignment. a good way to read SPF tho is to annoy her as much as possible and see how she reacts

My research into SPF from two scum games and one town games says that is not the case, but sure, it is a small sample size.

Regardless, I am feeling better about her now than I was before.

I'll leave it up to you to annoy her into making her an easy read.

ive played literally thousands of games with SPF (this is not an exaggeration, we are from the same home site) and at one point things like that pinged me from her too until i realized she writes like that all the time. it's true she's probably WORDIER as scum (as i said, she puts in a lot of sheer effort as mafia) but wordier is not the same as saying things like "call me crazy but..."

scum!SPF is more concerned with a survival-oriented playstyle which is why she busses so much. now i only need to apply what i know and actually read her.

[cassandra]

i feel like SPF wouldn't push on nutella off the bat as scum/town because she'd be aware nutella isn't MLable. though as i say that i remember that she did the "push to pocket" approach to me before so i'm a bit more shrug about it but i still kinda gut townread that. also i liked her saying something pinged her from me but she ignored it

fwiw i have a habit of making pushes on unchoppable players when im a wolf because it usually makes people townread me (ie: me pushing on you in MCM, me pushing on amrock in the 16/8er), so i dont really think this is a solid reason to townread me

the best reason why im town is because my posts are boring. they work for me, and i find them fun to make, but they're usually written to aid my solving above all else, whereas my posts as a wolf are written with the intention to make other people react to them

Call me crazy, but you haven't done the scumtell that I'm accustomed to seeing from you, but I need a sanity check on that.

is it the "language pattern" thing you pointed out in the congress of vienna game?

For any other confused parties, as scum, SPF kept using phrases like "call me crazy but" or "... if no one else feels this way, I might just be nuts" coupled with reads/statements, which I called her out on.

i've seen SPF say that so many times, maybe even every single game we've ever played together, so i'm pretty sure it's not a tell specific to her scum play

i don't think anyone in this game has a good read on cassandra

iaafr has a good spec chat read on me, ilario has a good read on me, i think you have a decent read on me in late game so i usually kill you before end game as wolf, you just struggle D1. NOOK has a pretty good read on me. outside of that eh.

dyslexicon may have a good read on me or may just call me scum regardless of my alignment, pending this game if they're town, but they've read me correctly as scum in the past multiple times

though, Marmot's jump on me was like exactly one of the stupid NAI things i'd use to jump on someone as scum if i was playing a lazy scum game, the only reason i townread it aside from the note i made was the absolute lack of progression from having me as "an easy read, strongest TR" to voting me over TMI for something so obviously not TMI that scum probably wouldn't think to make up something so bizarre.

---

I'm squinting at both JJJ and Mac.

can you talk about your read on JJJ a bit more? i know youve mentioned that you felt that he has been "off" in some way (and i actually think that marmot nailed the description of why it might feel that way, because it is true that JJJ is focused more on posting individual observations than he is on dialoguing directly with other players), but im not sure if him being "off" is a reason to wolfread him within itself. im having a hard time getting a grasp on JJJ in this game in general, so i wanna talk about him more

Marmot's description was decent, yeah. i dunno. he's not playing in the way i'd expect him to as town, but my track record of reading people based on that premise is pretty low. i just don't see him really putting the same energy into developing reads/creating a consensus and such as usual. his explanation about it being about the game VS. player base is reasonable, and he's probably more in null territory for me aorn. i'd love to have our first V/V game together and i'd be sad if it was spent by me being suspicious of him the whole game so i kind of just want to see how he plays out?

Are you talking about me here, or JJJ?

Leetic/ilario would presumably die at the same time right? Like one of them couldn't be yeeted while the other lives, nor could one be nightkilled while the other lives?

They're a hydra that can post and vote separately. They are the same slot. They are not masons who occupy separate slots. That's how I'm viewing the leetic/ilario thing.


I just don't think it's a good idea to automatically take that as a town role. I think the selection of the wording "They are confirmed town to each other" is incorrect, because while they are probably the same alignment, they are not inherently town.

I get that it would be weird for scum to have a scum chat, and then have a separate chat for the two players that have the same slot. But that take is dangerous, because it's making the read that the mod essentially cleared the slot town on setup. That's what I mean by the mod-confirmed town statement.

saying they're confirmed the same alignment to each other or they're confirmed town to each other is literally the same exact thing fmpov, because obviously mafia is going to claim to be town. like it's literally just linguistics. and "they're mod confirmed town" =/= "confirmed town to each other." i like to look at it this way (confirmed town to each other rather than confirmed the same alignment to each other) because it means if i feel confident that one is town then i can feel confident the other is and it helps me with my POE, but i'm not saying they shouldn't be scrutinized - just that they shouldn't be scrutinized on an individual basis.

my town read on ilario is completely outside of the claim.

My concern is with the fact that you called them town, not that they would visibly explain that they are both town.

But yes, it was probably an overreaction on my part.

JJJ

i called them confirmed town to each other because they claimed it and that's what a mason is and i still wouldn't phrase that any differently lmao
this discussion feels like pointless going in circles because i think it has to do with the way we're processing information tbh.

-

the best thing i've gotten out of this whole thing is that i townread Marmot now.

[anne]

haven't you said before that ilario doesn't have a good read on you and has been tunneling you a lot lately? iaafr idk cause spec chat is diff from real games but sure ill agree there

[iaafr]

I might just be crazy,

[cassandra]

haven't you said before that ilario doesn't have a good read on you and has been tunneling you a lot lately? iaafr idk cause spec chat is diff from real games but sure ill agree there

he tunnels me for sounding fake and performative on alts because i'm specifically typing in a way to disguise myself, but when i'm playing as myself he generally can read me well

[anne]

I might just be crazy,

but?

[anne]

ngl this game is kinda bad, not feeling it

[anne]

i have no real scum reads so yeah don't ask me for that and generally don't feel motivated

[Marmot]

also spf says stuff like that regardless of alignment. a good way to read SPF tho is to annoy her as much as possible and see how she reacts

My research into SPF from two scum games and one town games says that is not the case, but sure, it is a small sample size.

Regardless, I am feeling better about her now than I was before.

I'll leave it up to you to annoy her into making her an easy read.

ive played literally thousands of games with SPF (this is not an exaggeration, we are from the same home site) and at one point things like that pinged me from her too until i realized she writes like that all the time. it's true she's probably WORDIER as scum (as i said, she puts in a lot of sheer effort as mafia) but wordier is not the same as saying things like "call me crazy but..."

scum!SPF is more concerned with a survival-oriented playstyle which is why she busses so much. now i only need to apply what i know and actually read her.

What do you consider long and detailed?


I'm also curious to hear spf's read on anne given the amount the two of you have played together.

[anne]

i consider long and detailed to be long and detailed. town!spf is more prone to giving off the cuff reads

[iaafr]

dont worry about it anne, we'll take care of it, sorry you're not having fun

[anne]

i have some townreads tho i guess

i think iaafr town and brad town and leetic/ilario town and das it

[anne]

which i guess means NAA wagon is pure so off i go

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

[staypositivefriend]

like right now:

SPF i think you're scummy and i don't agree with your own self-meta. it's been a while since i've seen you wolf, but i notice as wolf you will post longer posts that are extremely detailed only to seem townie off of sheer effort. i don't think we're far enough in the game tho for you to have any posts like that regardless, but your earlier posts being so long and detailed but yet lacking pinged me a bit.

for example, you said you had reads on me and iaafr but were waiting to discuss them (or something like that, im paraphrasing) then not long after said iaafr had pinged you a bit, which i can only assume means you think im pinging you a bit. so if i take that and your recent post saying you don't like my posts partly for OMGUS reasons, then what's the other part?

your reasoning in the first paragraph strikes me as off, both because:

A. my opening posts weren't even that long (they were like 4 paragraphs at most, which is DEFINITELY not an "overly long" amount of words for me to have while reading through 8 pages of the game), and i would expect you to know that i'm long-winded regardless of my alignment, even though it might be true that im wordier as a wolf

B. you say that my opening posts were "lacking", but i honestly get the impression that you might not have said that if i had explained my read on you in more detail. it seems like you largely agreed with my reads and that you didn't take any specific issue with my reasoning, so it sounds like your real issue is just that i didn't explain my read on you, but you can correct me if im wrong on that

anyway yeah, i said that i didn't have much to say about you that didn't amount to "meta/tone". the recklessness and openness of your opening posts felt kind of towny to me on a tonal level, but some of the specific posts that you made toward jagged (ie: "you should be townreading me!!") felt a little unwarranted and they reminded me of how i post when i'm trying to powerwolf and make people townread me by sheer force of will. i feel like im the best at reading you by seeing how you solve the game, and you hadn't really done any solving by the time i had caught up with the thread, so i was just waiting to see more. you weren't actually pinging me at that point, FTR

the only reason your recent post pinged me is because i didn't like your read on me and it felt like you were just picking a target to push on without digging into them, which is something that i've seen you do a number of times as a demotivated wolf. i think your posts right now are fine so im withholding judgement

[iaafr]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine


Tell me no one else is thinking this in the back of their mind

I think we all are.
Even I was tempted to recheck my role, no joke

i townread dizzy mainly for this post and for the NAA mafia soulread (regardless of accuracy)

[staypositivefriend]

kind of iconic for me to make an overly long and wordy post in response to anne accusing me of my posts being too long and wordy. im thriving

[Marmot]

spf making a long detailed post to defend her scumtell of making long detailed posts is ironic lol

[cassandra]

every time i want to call LC lock town i just feel uncomfortable about it and i feel like i shouldn't be because he's usually an easy read for me with only 2 exceptions.

iaafr/leetic/illario all town with nutella/marmot/maybe spf a tier right below.

[staypositivefriend]

i am leaning on marmot being town too

[Marmot]

I want leetic/ilario to start finishing each others' sentences, given that they're the same person.

ngl this game is kinda bad, not feeling it

Yeah, I'mma take a break for a little bit and let other people chat. The threadstate feels stalled and it needs some fresh takes imo

[cassandra]

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine


Tell me no one else is thinking this in the back of their mind

I think we all are.
Even I was tempted to recheck my role, no joke

i townread dizzy mainly for this post and for the NAA mafia soulread (regardless of accuracy)

i townread that post at first because i thought it said "redcheck" and they were referring to having a scummy PR and i didn't say anything because i was wondering if illario would notice that too and we'd mindmeld, but then i realized it said recheck and that felt less AI. maybe slightly town indicative for me but more of a gut thing than something i wanted to explain lol

[iaafr]

i, for one, am decently enjoying this game, even tough i'm fearing some sort of anticlimax of 3-4 in {mac naa falcon wilgy sloonei}

[cassandra]

actually i have a strong townread on SPF based on #928

[staypositivefriend]

i, for one, am decently enjoying this game, even tough i'm fearing some sort of anticlimax of 3-4 in {mac naa falcon wilgy sloonei}

i have a similar fear lol

[Lime Coke]

i'm not sure how you're expecting me to answer this
like obviously it's a good thing to have solid reasons for things but i'm basing this on a large pool of meta that's also impossible to ignore

I don't really have a precise "expectation"; it's just a question I wanted to ask about an accusation that struck me as no-win. @Lime Coke would you say this is a sensible or fair interpretation of your play on a meta level given your experience with alexa in the past? Anyone with insight here can provide it.

Yeah it's sensible. Normally when Alexa and I are in a game it's typically "I townread Alexa first within the first 2 pages, but come up with reasoning that sounds vague as hell or ends up being NAI for her second."

But I stated a bit later that I was trying to shift the way I play around her and a few others into "Try to come up with specific reasoning to townread them, then proceed to shield."

I haven't provided as many nuanced reads with the rest of the games which is probably the other reason she hasn't townlocked me yet, but I'm having a difficult time coming up with those because of how good the playerlist is, and this is a game where I want to do well in read accuracy wise.

Spoiler: show

I'm still catching up on reading I wanted to answer this since I was pinged.

[Dyslexicon]

dyslexicon may have a good read on me or may just call me scum regardless of my alignment, pending this game if they're town, but they've read me correctly as scum in the past multiple times

Who do I know you as?

[iaafr]

dyslexicon may have a good read on me or may just call me scum regardless of my alignment, pending this game if they're town, but they've read me correctly as scum in the past multiple times

Who do I know you as?

cassandra is alexa

[Dyslexicon]

To be real though, I'm enjoying this game. I haven't played much mafia lately, as my life is not really rigged for it time/energy wise. I'm don't feel like getting into this game right now. Maybe because I've lost my taste for D1 or maybe just cause. I may or may not read the game later this day phase. There's a lot of great players in this game. I don't want to bring my team down by not participating much right now, but still, it is what it is kind of. I don't feel like trying to agree with myself about what I really think with no knowns. I know there will be [things happening] because you all are pros. I'm not trying to abandon my responsibility of signing up for a game, I'm just taking it slow, and I hope that's ok.

[Dyslexicon]

cassandra is alexa

Since when do I have a good read on Alexa. I've played with her like once. But ok.

Also, hi, Alexa! Nice to see you

[cassandra]

i've been enjoying this game too tbh. i got emotional over something last night but that was just because of some mental health stuff irl and i'm proud i managed to keep it out of the thread. but yeah, i feel bad anne isn't :/

cassandra is alexa

Since when do I have a good read on Alexa. I've played with her like once. But ok.

Also, hi, Alexa! Nice to see you

i constitute "having a good read on me" as reading me correctly as scum one time then not mis-pushing me as town because, as anne said, most people really can't read me tbh. i think you did in spec chat too when i vanity searched one game

[iaafr]

dizzy/fatmo/mac/jpic all pregame guessed alexa/gorf/vandyfan as the team and some of them confbiased for fun but idt dizzy actually read finale

[Dyslexicon]

i constitute "having a good read on me" as reading me correctly as scum one time then not mis-pushing me as town because, as anne said, most people really can't read me tbh. i think you did in spec chat too when i vanity searched one game

Oh ok, I'll take it. The scum read was a shaky D1 read, but I'll definitely take it.
I can't really think of anyone currently playing who reads me with any degree of accuracy either tbh =p

[Lime Coke]

dizzy/fatmo/mac/jpic all pregame guessed alexa/gorf/vandyfan as the team and some of them confbiased for fun but idt dizzy actually read finale

FTR I was tunneling Katze in spec chat but was wrong on Alexa...I literally guessed Alexa/Katze as a "This would be a fucking cool ass team" but they ended up being the actual team, I was townreading Alexa for the most part.

[Dyslexicon]

dizzy/fatmo/mac/jpic all pregame guessed alexa/gorf/vandyfan as the team and some of them confbiased for fun but idt dizzy actually read finale

Only parts of it. But I did read Alexa as scum with Katze, since she wasn't really trying to get Katze chopped or defend Thunal after she made her vote. But it wasn't really a hard read, as I wasn't really hard into the game anyway.

Kind of think Alexa is town here, but haven't read most any of her post. Most of my takes are crap shoots, but crap shoots can be ok sometimes.

[Lime Coke]

Town:
Cassandraaaaaaa
Anne
Illario/Leetic
SPF
IAAFR
Nanook

This is MOSTLY where I'm at currently.

[iaafr]

i constitute "having a good read on me" as reading me correctly as scum one time then not mis-pushing me as town because, as anne said, most people really can't read me tbh. i think you did in spec chat too when i vanity searched one game

Oh ok, I'll take it. The scum read was a shaky D1 read, but I'll definitely take it.
I can't really think of anyone currently playing who reads me with any degree of accuracy either tbh =p

i was firm on townreading your constellations d1 after one moment of doubt for disagreeing with some of your townreads

and i cant recall being memorably wrong on you, though i fencesit on you sometimes

though if youre town here then my townread was godlike and i declare myself a dizzy godreader