Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Gavial]

Wagon dissolving on Gav mostly is probably Gav dynamics, would say that Nanook being a wolf would make Gav wolf more likely on wagonomics

TF is this shit?

[Gavial]

You wolf with Nanook trying to make me look bad even when I eventually push Nanook.

[Gavial]

Bitch if Nanook and Guillo are both Wolves you still gonna call me wolf?
@TonyStarkPrime

[Gavial]

Sorry for wrong wording I’ll change it to “bruh” instead of “bitch”.

[Guillotine]

@Guillotine
Tell me again why you scum read LP before and how now you Town read LP and why?

LP has manifested the same line of thought i had at various points. Given that im town, he has to be town because of that.

[Gavial]

I’d also say no more than one of Nanook/NAA but also probably at least one(?) like that’s a weird dynamic

I believe that I voted Sabie first of the three but NAA might have been hammering away on vote Sabie in thread already, I wasn’t really paying attention

“(Marmot//Nanook/Lime Coke) Contain at least 1 Wolf
(NAA/Nanook//Sabie probably contain a wolf.“

*Cough* *Cough*

[Gavial]

@Guillotine
Tell me again why you scum read LP before and how now you Town read LP and why?

LP has manifested the same line of thought i had at various points. Given that im town, he has to be town because of that.

So because they mindmelted with you they are suddenly town?
What was your initial reason of scum reading them?

[Guillotine]

@Guillotine
Tell me again why you scum read LP before and how now you Town read LP and why?

LP has manifested the same line of thought i had at various points. Given that im town, he has to be town because of that.

So because they mindmelted with you they are suddenly town?
What was your initial reason of scum reading them?

Yes, precisely. If im thinking something while im solving and someone post it, i’ll always assume it has to come from someone trying to do the same as me.
I had initially scum read him because they came in the thread, null read me after a fencey explanation of why and then threw a read on Falcon, considering my meta read on falcon and I thought, if they null read me and rhey dont have meta of me then why he’d consider my read on falcon as valid as foundation to determine a read on Falcon. It was weird.

[Gavial]

@Guillotine
Tell me again why you scum read LP before and how now you Town read LP and why?

LP has manifested the same line of thought i had at various points. Given that im town, he has to be town because of that.

So because they mindmelted with you they are suddenly town?
What was your initial reason of scum reading them?

Yes, precisely. If im thinking something while im solving and someone post it, i’ll always assume it has to come from someone trying to do the same as me.
I had initially scum read him because they came in the thread, null read me after a fencey explanation of why and then threw a read on Falcon, considering my meta read on falcon and I thought, if they null read me and rhey dont have meta of me then why he’d consider my read on falcon as valid as foundation to determine a read on Falcon. It was weird.

What’s your current read on Falcon?

[Gavial]

Pretty sure I mindmelted with Mac twice so he must be town as well like I have him as.

[Gavial]

I kinda mindmelted with Sig I think too a little bit if I recall but I think I did a bit more so with Mac

[Gavial]

sig and LP are confirmed town in my mind

LC probably too.

Sig isn’t confirmed for me but definitely a town of mine.
I have them as my only Mild Town but I may move them to straight Town.

[Gavial]

Betcha it’s on Gav

If you wolf’ed with me I don’t kill there.

[Gavial]

To be fully transparent, sabie visited Dizzy last night, and I saw no one else there.

I suppose this could also be a Buss unless someone already has proof on Marmot’s action.

If Sabie is town, Marmot definitely made a strange wolf play as it’s more beneficial as wolf to Buss in his position.

Although he’s way more likely town via Sabie being wolf but he isn’t confirmed.

[Gavial]

Like it’s a 4 player mafia and Sabie already has lots of attention on their slot as it is so it isn’t hard to Buss there.

[Guillotine]

To be fully transparent, sabie visited Dizzy last night, and I saw no one else there.

I suppose this could also be a Buss unless someone already has proof on Marmot’s action.

If Sabie is town, Marmot definitely made a strange wolf play as it’s more beneficial as wolf to Buss in his position.

Although he’s way more likely town via Sabie being wolf but he isn’t confirmed.

Fuck. Gavial is town isn't he?

I don't see a wolf risking themselves to shade someone with a pseudo-redcheck on Sabie. This level of paranoia is townie.

[Guillotine]

@Guillotine
Tell me again why you scum read LP before and how now you Town read LP and why?

LP has manifested the same line of thought i had at various points. Given that im town, he has to be town because of that.

So because they mindmelted with you they are suddenly town?
What was your initial reason of scum reading them?

Yes, precisely. If im thinking something while im solving and someone post it, i’ll always assume it has to come from someone trying to do the same as me.
I had initially scum read him because they came in the thread, null read me after a fencey explanation of why and then threw a read on Falcon, considering my meta read on falcon and I thought, if they null read me and rhey dont have meta of me then why he’d consider my read on falcon as valid as foundation to determine a read on Falcon. It was weird.

What’s your current read on Falcon?

Nothing has changed since my read of them yesterday.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Multiple people have been asking me this, so I'm making a ruling since it's unclear in the setup:

A Sniper's shot can only be misdirected at the moment of the shooting, not at the moment of aiming.

The same goes for tracker/watcher results related to the sniper.

However, both aiming and shooting can be roleblocked (but see the clause I posted yesterday where being roleblocked when about to shoot doesn't make the sniper lose the aiming).

I believe this all fits flavor decently while being fair gameplay-wise.

[LinearPoint]

I seem to remember LinearPoint being present at EoD, and not commenting on the Seanzie wagon at all despite prompts from myself to take action.

1 that wagon formed in 30 seconds.
2 I did. I said it was stupid.
And call it hindsight bias, but it was in fact stupid, so I think my take was accurate.

My issue is I tend to tunnel allot but I’m trying to work on it so I don’t do it as much.

I still believe your wolf though Guillotine based on the events of Day 1 and everything you did then.

Like i said before, thanks for spewing me town if you are a wolf and if you are town… well, you are wrong and frankly i dont have time to give credence to your tunnel so have at it. From where i stand im night kill material and you are lynch material, to paint a realistic picture of day 1 events for you.

What makes you think your a good night kill target?

TBH I'd kill him if I were Mafia who knew he was Town.

[NotAnAxehole]

I seem to remember LinearPoint being present at EoD, and not commenting on the Seanzie wagon at all despite prompts from myself to take action.

1 that wagon formed in 30 seconds.
2 I did. I said it was stupid.
And call it hindsight bias, but it was in fact stupid, so I think my take was accurate.

My issue is I tend to tunnel allot but I’m trying to work on it so I don’t do it as much.

I still believe your wolf though Guillotine based on the events of Day 1 and everything you did then.

Like i said before, thanks for spewing me town if you are a wolf and if you are town… well, you are wrong and frankly i dont have time to give credence to your tunnel so have at it. From where i stand im night kill material and you are lynch material, to paint a realistic picture of day 1 events for you.

What makes you think your a good night kill target?

TBH I'd kill him if I were Mafia who knew he was Town.

1 - Right, so we agree that I couldn't have possibly thought that the wagon was going to go over (unless Nanook, Sabie, TSP and I were exactly all mafia - or at least 3 out of 4)... Therefore my earlier cling to the Sabie wagon up until the last 30 seconds is towny.

Yet you also indicated that I'm scummy for doing the EoD thing, which is it? Was there not enough time to really comment on it or expect any real result, or was it scummy and you simply didn't do anything about it?

[Gavial]

I’ll admit Guillo has gotten better but him or Falcon is wolf and I still remember how much I didn’t like his posts day 1.

[Gavial]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

[Gavial]

I seem to remember LinearPoint being present at EoD, and not commenting on the Seanzie wagon at all despite prompts from myself to take action.

1 that wagon formed in 30 seconds.
2 I did. I said it was stupid.
And call it hindsight bias, but it was in fact stupid, so I think my take was accurate.

My issue is I tend to tunnel allot but I’m trying to work on it so I don’t do it as much.

I still believe your wolf though Guillotine based on the events of Day 1 and everything you did then.

Like i said before, thanks for spewing me town if you are a wolf and if you are town… well, you are wrong and frankly i dont have time to give credence to your tunnel so have at it. From where i stand im night kill material and you are lynch material, to paint a realistic picture of day 1 events for you.

What makes you think your a good night kill target?

TBH I'd kill him if I were Mafia who knew he was Town.

1 - Right, so we agree that I couldn't have possibly thought that the wagon was going to go over (unless Nanook, Sabie, TSP and I were exactly all mafia - or at least 3 out of 4)... Therefore my earlier cling to the Sabie wagon up until the last 30 seconds is towny.

Yet you also indicated that I'm scummy for doing the EoD thing, which is it? Was there not enough time to really comment on it or expect any real result, or was it scummy and you simply didn't do anything about it?

Wouldn’t be surprised if 1 or 2 mafia sheeped you lol.
I’d have definitely been Nanook I’ll tell you that much.

[Gavial]

It’d have*

[Marmot]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

If sabie doesn't post (which she hasn't yet today), I think we can assume not.

[falcon45ca]

OK, Gav prolly town

[falcon45ca]

NAA seems like a worm on a hook...lots of wriggling about

[Guillotine]

Another option is to have both Demoman use their eyelanders today so they can't Roleblock, but then Sabie could act.
This might be preferred if we end up just offing Sabie today and not trying to confirm TSP.

Why not just kill off Sabie today? Why are we considering leaving Sabie for later?

[Guillotine]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

it's 12v4 rn

I think worst case scenario with spies both being mafia and snipers and both snipers being mafia (TSP lying) we drop to 7v4?

then we yeet tsp and sabie and carry out our day and go to like 5v2

I don't get it, why wouldn't we just kill Sabie today? Also, I think TSP is full of shit.

1. I'd rather have actual wagons today
2. If TSP is full of shit he gets outted or forced into a claim battle with someone else (marmot) who is townier than him

so we either get a yeet that means something or two mafia for the price of one, to be collected at a later date (D3)

Dude! A wolf kill is better than wagons.

[Guillotine]

TBH if we yeet a not Sabie I'd go with NAA.

Disagreed. We honor Dyslexicon legacy read and kill off Sig instead.

[Jackofhearts2005]

NAA dies either way and shouldn't be end gaming.

Didn’t everyone assure us that NAA was a wolf that one time? Or was that Dolby meta?

I remember people assuring me in a previous game that a NAA slot was a wolf when I knew it absolutely wasn’t because I was a wolf.

If i was a wolf i would love to keep NAA in the game.

Meaning?

[Jackofhearts2005]

So like meta and wagonomics says Sabie is town before I even look at her iso.

So I looked at her iso.

24 posts. Yet she's a runaway wagon.

Hmm I guess Marmot's disinterest is odd and could be mafia? If he were then he hasn't provided much interaction with anyone so he wouldn't be worried about giving away teammates if he gets voted off. I can never get a good read on Jack. If Jack is mafia he's better to get out earlier rather than later. Does gavial have a different playstyle when town or mafia? He always seems kinda all over the place.
Throwing a vote on marmot for now. Hoping to be able to come back later before EOD.
[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

I don't like this.
You're last post with Marmot was basically saying you felt the same about the game as they did.

Spoiler: show

@Marmot

Why are you way more low presence compared to Philo 2?

I keep forgetting I'm in a mafia game and am feeling lazy this game.

That happens to me when I haven't played in awhile. Any thoughts so far?

But now you are using it as a reason to vote them?
It just feels like this is coming from someone looking for an excuse to get on the wagon than a legitimate read.

I find this post more sus than anything Sabie has said up until this point. Like, this attack reads dishonest. Granted, LP walks it back like immediately but it's a bad look. Agreeing with "I sometimes forget I'm in a mafia game" is not like the same thing as a mindmeld. There's not like a contradiction in the things Sabie is saying, here.

The only thing even #weird I could find in Sabie's iso prior to this post is that she mentions me a lot. Idk if other people were talking about me at the time but it's kinda #weird.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hmm I guess Marmot's disinterest is odd and could be mafia? If he were then he hasn't provided much interaction with anyone so he wouldn't be worried about giving away teammates if he gets voted off. I can never get a good read on Jack. If Jack is mafia he's better to get out earlier rather than later. Does gavial have a different playstyle when town or mafia? He always seems kinda all over the place.
Throwing a vote on marmot for now. Hoping to be able to come back later before EOD.
[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

I don't like this.
You're last post with Marmot was basically saying you felt the same about the game as they did.

Spoiler: show

@Marmot

Why are you way more low presence compared to Philo 2?

I keep forgetting I'm in a mafia game and am feeling lazy this game.

That happens to me when I haven't played in awhile. Any thoughts so far?

But now you are using it as a reason to vote them?
It just feels like this is coming from someone looking for an excuse to get on the wagon than a legitimate read.

Well I thought maybe he was going to come in and start participating now that he remembered he was playing. Then he just kinda said he didn't care and didn't provide anything else so I found that odd.

That's fair, any thoughts on Gav so far? I see you posted about Jack, but not Gav, so more just curious if you had more of a reason for Marmot over Gav.

I'm not sure about gav I feel like his theories don't make sense and could be deflection of attention from himself. I feel like he is so all over the place it's hard to pinpoint. I could see him as mafia this game. My initial hesitation was because I thought people jumped on his wagon pretty quick early on in the day. I was hoping maybe a vote on marmot would get him to post more but that maybe that was being too hopeful.

I feel like this reads town for Sabie.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

Pls more prescriptive less descriptive statements

Sure I can elaborate. I don't think we can judge Jack's alignment yet as he hasn't been here even if he has been tricky in the past. I was unsure as to why everyone jumped so quickly on the gav train so early on. I guess that stems from me taking a little longer to process things in the beginning of games before figuring things out. From my experience, I feel like there are sometimes players who often get scumread early on whether they are town or scum. I've seen this happen to sig and to gavial for example and it seems to have happened here.

Why is Jack not judgeable but Marmot is if both player's presence have been lacking in this game?

Another dishonest sounding attack on Sabie.

"Why is it that you differentiate your ability to read players who have posted from players that haven't posted. I mean, both are lacking."

It's not like Guillo is even unaware that I hadn't posted yet when Sabie said that because she literally says I hadn't posted yet when she said that in the post that Guillo quotes, here.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Marmot, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Guillotine, falcon45ca, sig, MartinGG99

I do not know why any of these players are voting Sabie. Lettuce investigate.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Dragon D. Luffy

iso links on the first page would be lovely

[Jackofhearts2005]

To be fully transparent, sabie visited Dizzy last night, and I saw no one else there.

Oh.

Well.

Fuckin nevermind I guess.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Good work everyone.

Bake em away, toys.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I look forward to looking tomorrow to see if the hot potato away from Sabie D1 was lead by nonsyndicate regulars.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I also look forward to people thinking I'm teamed with Sabie because Sabie talks about me a lot and because I choose to catchup in a funny way.

[LinearPoint]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

It is never a good idea to assume red checks are falsified.
It is always better to just lynch the red check.
If Sabie does come out with a claim and who they targeted that also would probably clear this possibility if someone else visited them.
Not to mention no one has said they visited Dizzy. So we don’t really have a reason to believe it to be wrong.

[Dolby]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

It is never a good idea to assume red checks are falsified.
It is always better to just lynch the red check.
If Sabie does come out with a claim and who they targeted that also would probably clear this possibility if someone else visited them.
Not to mention no one has said they visited Dizzy. So we don’t really have a reason to believe it to be wrong.

also Sabie just hasn't spoken in over 12 hours

[Dolby]

Aside from role mechanics, what do you think about the game?

fuck if I know lol

at least one CFDer is a wolf

I like LP

I like Guillo

Marmot is town and Sabie's a wolf

someone else had 3 votes yesterday and the fact that Seanzie went over is whack

I'm going with TSP town for the moment

Gullio why?
Explain.

I think he's just town rn in his stuff and that's it

[Dolby]

I'm honestly still partial to just taking the guaranteed Mafia lynch though.
Especially with the odds of there being 3 kills tonight. Majority could very easily slip.

it's 12v4 rn

I think worst case scenario with spies both being mafia and snipers and both snipers being mafia (TSP lying) we drop to 7v4?

then we yeet tsp and sabie and carry out our day and go to like 5v2

I don't get it, why wouldn't we just kill Sabie today? Also, I think TSP is full of shit.

1. I'd rather have actual wagons today
2. If TSP is full of shit he gets outted or forced into a claim battle with someone else (marmot) who is townier than him

so we either get a yeet that means something or two mafia for the price of one, to be collected at a later date (D3)

Dude! A wolf kill is better than wagons.

yeah but we can get both

[Dolby]

are polls ordered by vote order?

I'm legit considering if Mac was frantically changing his vote at 4 am to save a teammate lol

[LinearPoint]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

It is never a good idea to assume red checks are falsified.
It is always better to just lynch the red check.
If Sabie does come out with a claim and who they targeted that also would probably clear this possibility if someone else visited them.
Not to mention no one has said they visited Dizzy. So we don’t really have a reason to believe it to be wrong.

also Sabie just hasn't spoken in over 12 hours

Honestly not a reason to suspect Sabie.
If someone can’t get on because of something IRL, it’s not really bad.
Someone getting on and coasting without doing something is where I’d draw lines. Kind of why I was on Mac a bit since he’s not typically the coasting type from my experience.

[LinearPoint]

I’m 90% sure votes are not ordered.
I think I’ve always seems Nanook be the second vote even when they are the last one to join.

[Dolby]

“ Flamethrower: Once per night, the Pyro can burn a player. Being on fire will make it hard for that player to aim, so whatever actions they use will be misdirected to a random target (but not self-target).”
We are positive no one used this on Marmot?

It is never a good idea to assume red checks are falsified.
It is always better to just lynch the red check.
If Sabie does come out with a claim and who they targeted that also would probably clear this possibility if someone else visited them.
Not to mention no one has said they visited Dizzy. So we don’t really have a reason to believe it to be wrong.

also Sabie just hasn't spoken in over 12 hours

Honestly not a reason to suspect Sabie.
If someone can’t get on because of something IRL, it’s not really bad.
Someone getting on and coasting without doing something is where I’d draw lines. Kind of why I was on Mac a bit since he’s not typically the coasting type from my experience.

tl;dr

I think that Sabie is not posting because they know they're outted

coasting isn't a reason to sus someone

strategic slanking is

also allowing the perception that she isn't outted to persist is harmful to town dialogue

if she claims something that's verifiable, yeah we get off of her

[LinearPoint]

Plus it doesn’t really make sense if Nanook joined the CFD before NAA started it.

[Dolby]

I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

I think I'd rule of 3 all these nulls

Trying to sort out the LP Guillo argument. I think meta reads can be open to interpretation like two people can see someone's play in different ways. So I feel like falcon seemed like his usual town self to me far but I don't know him as well as others might. My wilgy meta is telling me his random mumble posting is towny.

Don't think that the wilgy comment tells us anything but I feel like LP and Guillo being mentioned and not being solved makes them both townier. Falcon idk

Trying to sort out the LP Guillo argument. I think meta reads can be open to interpretation like two people can see someone's play in different ways. So I feel like falcon seemed like his usual town self to me far but I don't know him as well as others might. My wilgy meta is telling me his random mumble posting is towny.

Tell me your thoughts on that since ngl I started skimming that and then brain dumped it.

I agree with wilgy meta, I do expect him to start like doing something, but not this early and he's mislynched almost as much as me so we gotta have that day 1 protection going on.

I also had a hard time processing all of it. I think it comes down to differing opinions on meta reads and like if someone's meta read is off does that make them scummy. I don't think it does if it's early on in the game when there isn't much other info to go off of.

Yeah that always sucks when that happens but I think that's gotten better for him. If given a chance to live longer wilgy becomes more active. I guess I do the same thing.

There isn't much info to go off?

Have you read the thread?

I have read the thread thank you for asking. When I say not as much info I mean like day 1 we don't have flips or actions or anything to look at yet so the focus tends to be more on meta and tone. I was trying to figure out the point of your disagreement with LP. Do you scum read both LP and falcon?

Guillo is probs not a wolf here and it's for the post that Sabie quoted, not anyting Sabie did that spews him. Also I think that question at teh end makes both of them more likely town

Is tsp making up random false meta on me to prove the point from an earlier discussion about faking meta reads?

I think accusing your partner of making false meta on you, assuming that you aren't being hellbussed to die and konw it, is not a pathway that Sabie would choose to go down. TSP more town

Hmm I guess Marmot's disinterest is odd and could be mafia? If he were then he hasn't provided much interaction with anyone so he wouldn't be worried about giving away teammates if he gets voted off. I can never get a good read on Jack. If Jack is mafia he's better to get out earlier rather than later. Does gavial have a different playstyle when town or mafia? He always seems kinda all over the place.
Throwing a vote on marmot for now. Hoping to be able to come back later before EOD.
[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

I should look into the vote count here tbh

Okay so I guess voting marmot when others also voted marmot makes me scum. I'm trying to figure things out as best I can. I thought his post was sketchy and could be from a disinterested mafia and EOD still was a bit away when I put my vote there. I take awhile to process things sometimes so my responses and analysis isn't as quick as others. I guess I'm just a bit out of practice.
I'm in agreement that a gavial flip gives us more info than a marmot one and his deflections and weird theories make sense as mafia so moving my vote there.

[VOTE: gavial] aubergine

same, but I think it is worth noting that I feel Sabie had been preempting this vote switch in their previous 3 posts (not quoted)