GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[112]

P&G is quickly becoming my favourite person I just met today.

lol I been ur favourite person for a long time homefresh

Bender, we love you!

[hollowkatt]

i do wish this hadn't happened and alexa had kept it to herself because now wolves might be able to narrow down the kind of role i have but ah well

i think it's likely enough she just didnt realize roles and alignment were likely independent of each other

Alexa don't make those kinds of mistakes.

But maybe I should stop holding her to higher standards than everyone else now that I think about it.

WHAT?????

LMAO IVE MESSED UP AS PR LIKE EVERY GAME

if this is a serious read please give proof you mean it/have witnessed it

@Guillotine

Yah let me materialize deleted dead and scum chats, please hold.

hai guillo, are you town?

u town breh?

yee

[alexa]

so fun thing I just thought of, if the mafia captain picked likely they did not pick "traditional mafia powerhouses" because that would be obvs as fuck as soon as one flipped.

Yeah, agreed

I think people like Alexa would be too obvious of a pick, plus alexa is outside of her scumrange rn anyways

counterpoint: alexas scum range is infinite

I mean sure you could draft a literal who's who of elite wolf players in this list, but get 2+ of them chopped and the rest fall like leaves because it's an easy pattern to follow. I think I'd draft Roles here and work those with my team

bruh how can you say my scum range is infinite when you've never seen me wolf lmfao

also didn't you say last game that we played as W/V that i have a trust tell? if i have a trust tell how is my scum range infinite?

[EnderWiggin]

So because I've seen C4's signature and am now trying to convince town that I am indeed a fellow townsman, I shall make a progression case.

why do you have signatures turned on? do you really hate yourself that much?

Yes.

[EnderWiggin]

I wish more things were happening.

Someone call someone mafia confidently.

Nanook is scum.

[Phil and Gloria]

I trust autistic with my life. I think they caught linear on basically nothing and (she?) has been flailing on defense. Probably because she feels slighted that others have drowned her in votes.

You trust who?

this is gonna be an all time great autocorrect moment lol

anywho just stopped at a bush pub for a schooey and back on the road... reception will be patchy

[Guillotine]

Im sad Mac is not in this game, how can there be a Champions without him

Mac's a cunt anyway

How dare you talk like that about a player that is mot here?
Besides even if he was a cunt, he is my cunt!

[LinearPoint]

I trust autistic with my life. I think they caught linear on basically nothing and (she?) has been flailing on defense. Probably because she feels slighted that others have drowned her in votes.

Failing? That's insulting.
A case would need to be presented for there to be a success or failure.

[ilario]

Mac is obviously Phil and Gloria

[hollowkatt]

so fun thing I just thought of, if the mafia captain picked likely they did not pick "traditional mafia powerhouses" because that would be obvs as fuck as soon as one flipped.

Yeah, agreed

I think people like Alexa would be too obvious of a pick, plus alexa is outside of her scumrange rn anyways

counterpoint: alexas scum range is infinite

I mean sure you could draft a literal who's who of elite wolf players in this list, but get 2+ of them chopped and the rest fall like leaves because it's an easy pattern to follow. I think I'd draft Roles here and work those with my team

bruh how can you say my scum range is infinite when you've never seen me wolf lmfao

also didn't you say last game that we played as W/V that i have a trust tell? if i have a trust tell how is my scum range infinite?

I read your champs game, I was in halloween mash, and your trust tell isn't really a trust tell I was just pissy as fuck

[Paopan]

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

how am i under fire?
and i make a reads' list early p much every game. susceptible to change

Well yeah. I think you are wolf

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

why do you think alexa is under fire? from what I can tell other than a vv small handful of people she's drawing town reads.

I provide information from a fresh perspective so I'm becoming more sure at this point that Alexa and Guillo are SvS.
Do you currently town read alexa?

[alexa]

which one is mac?

[Scotty]

ok uhh read through alison's stuff on creature

i think some of the things alison is casing creature for are like, not scumtells for him at all and more like "ok classically wolfy" things that don't make him a wolf/are stuff i've seen pretty consistently from pressure. so yeah, i don't agree but i won't put him in my towncore rn out of respect for her as i do believe she is a villager. i think the way she's framing/arguing the case is villagery for her, like the "i think a mafia captain picked roles, i don't think a mafia captain would pass over me and alexa" part. registers at least as mindmeldy because i felt a little bad seeing people say there was a captain, that i wasn't picked (even though i wouldn't have really wanted to mafia this game still), but then i saw it could be roles and it made me feel a bit better and yeah.

Town:
Alison
c4e5g3d5
falcon45ca
hollowkatt
ilario
TonyStarkPrime
Urist

~nutella probably

Mafia:
Sloonei (this is gut based on his opening)
LinearPoint

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

I like the cut of you jib. You seem different than the scum game we played together

[Urist]

Urist = autistic

[LinearPoint]

why is linear so hung up on alexa being N0 Rolecop specifically? At this point it feels like fishing for alexa to out what she actually is.
[VOTE: Linear] aubergine

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

[hollowkatt]

Mac is obviously Phil and Gloria

I read that as "Mac is obviously Phil Collins" and yeah, I can dig it

[alexa]

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

how am i under fire?
and i make a reads' list early p much every game. susceptible to change

Well yeah. I think you are wolf

why?

[hollowkatt]

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

how am i under fire?
and i make a reads' list early p much every game. susceptible to change

Well yeah. I think you are wolf

-1 for making a read list at this point (under fire). I consider this as a pocket attempt.
Spreading love xoxo

why do you think alexa is under fire? from what I can tell other than a vv small handful of people she's drawing town reads.

I provide information from a fresh perspective so I'm becoming more sure at this point that Alexa and Guillo are SvS.
Do you currently town read alexa?

yeah I do

[ilario]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Nah. Alison being guns blazing like this is townie and maybe this is the weakest point in the case but the rest is on the nose. Like the whole guilty conscience and 3p comment thing is pretty solid slam dunking imo.

Do you have much experience with her wolf game? Have you caught her as a wolf?

[ilario]

which one is mac?

Wdym it’s just one account?

[alexa]

so fun thing I just thought of, if the mafia captain picked likely they did not pick "traditional mafia powerhouses" because that would be obvs as fuck as soon as one flipped.

Yeah, agreed

I think people like Alexa would be too obvious of a pick, plus alexa is outside of her scumrange rn anyways

counterpoint: alexas scum range is infinite

I mean sure you could draft a literal who's who of elite wolf players in this list, but get 2+ of them chopped and the rest fall like leaves because it's an easy pattern to follow. I think I'd draft Roles here and work those with my team

bruh how can you say my scum range is infinite when you've never seen me wolf lmfao

also didn't you say last game that we played as W/V that i have a trust tell? if i have a trust tell how is my scum range infinite?

I read your champs game, I was in halloween mash, and your trust tell isn't really a trust tell I was just pissy as fuck

halloween mash was multiball and thus not my typical scum game, i was solving genuinely

champs was a great game but i wouldn't say my scum range is "infinite" there's a lot of things in my town meta i can't imitate as scum

but alright

[112]

I trust autistic with my life. I think they caught linear on basically nothing and (she?) has been flailing on defense. Probably because she feels slighted that others have drowned her in votes.

@KZA - we're both on Scotty's good side. What do we make of this?

[Scotty]

The more I read on- and I am going to try to stay on top of things on D1- but I have 300 MB of Wi-Fi left on this stupid ship and need to be selective with how long I spend on here.

So.

If anyone desperately needs pressing reads from me, @ me.

For now. Based on up to pg5, Guillo is not town.

[VOTE: Guillo] aubergine

Also I am a bird. Cuhcaw

found another woof

hi mac

[alexa]

which one is mac?

Wdym it’s just one account?

yeah sorry i see now they're the phil people, i meant i didn't realize he was posting

[Phil and Gloria]

too many people trying to derp clear themselves off me here lol

[hollowkatt]

why is linear so hung up on alexa being N0 Rolecop specifically? At this point it feels like fishing for alexa to out what she actually is.
[VOTE: Linear] aubergine

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

that's fine to not like the vibe I just don't understand how you're so hung up on the role itself. Like alexa straight up said it's not RC and straight up said her info may not be alignment indicative. Whether or not you buy into that is up to you, but your dogged pursuit of it has me thinking "Linear is a wolf and latched onto this as a thing they can push" instead of "Linear is town and trying to understand how alexa says the things she says, and how nutella replies the way they did"

[LinearPoint]

Honestly Nutella has looked a bit worse than Alexa in the aftermath, but Neeko's willing to concede their take on Alexa V Nutella may be flawed in some regards.

On another note Soctty looking less bad.

[Urist]

too many people trying to derp clear themselves off me here lol

wouldn't it only be a derp clear if you're mafia

[112]

Mac is obviously Phil and Gloria

I read that as "Mac is obviously Phil Collins" and yeah, I can dig it

@MacDougall - you saw it with your own two eyes and are still not outing the wolf.

Why?

[nutella]

Town:
Alexa
Alison
Guillo
Seanzie
112
Hollowkatt
C4
Urist
Paopan

Meh/mrrr:
Linearpoint
Sloonei

Mafia:
Creature


All others no opinion

is it normal for nutella to have so many trs this early?

Not sure what that means for nutella. Would be a shame if those townreads come from the assumption I'm wolf

They are all pretty independent reads

[EnderWiggin]

Wait so what’s going on

We're killing Linear Point, and 2 hours before end of day, I'm claiming a red check - which nobody will believe, Linear Point dies at EoD, and we kill my red check tomorrow.

I already don't believe this red check and I don't even know who it is yet.

[alexa]

why is linear so hung up on alexa being N0 Rolecop specifically? At this point it feels like fishing for alexa to out what she actually is.
[VOTE: Linear] aubergine

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

that's fine to not like the vibe I just don't understand how you're so hung up on the role itself. Like alexa straight up said it's not RC and straight up said her info may not be alignment indicative. Whether or not you buy into that is up to you, but your dogged pursuit of it has me thinking "Linear is a wolf and latched onto this as a thing they can push" instead of "Linear is town and trying to understand how alexa says the things she says, and how nutella replies the way they did"

i've played with linear before and they were nothing like this (as V/V... or i was 3P idr but i was playing like V and they were V)

which is why i think their lack of logic irt this makes them a wolf

[ilario]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

Lock 112 as town all the way until lylo

112 c4 creature

These are almost never wolves

Alexa

Would be very surprised if she’s a wolf but most likely is town like 90+ % of the time here. This approach she’s taking would only be tailored to fool me if she’s mafia but idt she would do that in a lobby this big

[hollowkatt]

so fun thing I just thought of, if the mafia captain picked likely they did not pick "traditional mafia powerhouses" because that would be obvs as fuck as soon as one flipped.

Yeah, agreed

I think people like Alexa would be too obvious of a pick, plus alexa is outside of her scumrange rn anyways

counterpoint: alexas scum range is infinite

I mean sure you could draft a literal who's who of elite wolf players in this list, but get 2+ of them chopped and the rest fall like leaves because it's an easy pattern to follow. I think I'd draft Roles here and work those with my team

bruh how can you say my scum range is infinite when you've never seen me wolf lmfao

also didn't you say last game that we played as W/V that i have a trust tell? if i have a trust tell how is my scum range infinite?

I read your champs game, I was in halloween mash, and your trust tell isn't really a trust tell I was just pissy as fuck

halloween mash was multiball and thus not my typical scum game, i was solving genuinely

champs was a great game but i wouldn't say my scum range is "infinite" there's a lot of things in my town meta i can't imitate as scum

but alright

ok fine the real reason is you're intimidating as fuck as either alignment and if I call you town I'm probably right and if I call you a wolf and you're not my day is going to be very bad.

[112]

ohh it's a proxy account mfw

[EnderWiggin]

early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Sabie had an odd opener but i haven't read any additional posts from her

That's my secret cap. I'm always odd.

Lock town never rescind.

[LinearPoint]

why is linear so hung up on alexa being N0 Rolecop specifically? At this point it feels like fishing for alexa to out what she actually is.
[VOTE: Linear] aubergine

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

that's fine to not like the vibe I just don't understand how you're so hung up on the role itself. Like alexa straight up said it's not RC and straight up said her info may not be alignment indicative. Whether or not you buy into that is up to you, but your dogged pursuit of it has me thinking "Linear is a wolf and latched onto this as a thing they can push" instead of "Linear is town and trying to understand how alexa says the things she says, and how nutella replies the way they did"

The first idea conclusion seemed logical enough Neeko was blind to alternitives admittedly.
Mafia would like rolecop so Mafia would take rolecop and Alexa seemed to be claiming rolecop when they weren't actually doing so.
Neeko just jumped a few hoops too many.

[hollowkatt]

Mac is obviously Phil and Gloria

I read that as "Mac is obviously Phil Collins" and yeah, I can dig it

@MacDougall - you saw it with your own two eyes and are still not outing the wolf.

Why?

I can answer that: Phil Collins is a GOAT and Mac should be honored.

[EnderWiggin]

Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff

Spoiler: show

Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Wow this got intense so quick

Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Who is Neeko?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

I think you are.

I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying

These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.

I believe him when he says he is low energy. Take note that being low energy and unable to meaningfully engage with the game is a classic Creature scumtell.

Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show

I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Is soup kill a thing?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles

Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.

Category 3: Flame Fanning

Spoiler: show

lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

-

Please vote Creature.

You have my sword.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[112]

Neeko is a difficult read at this point but I think I'm leaning town there for now.

[Guillotine]

there's a chance she is town it is not exactly a red check i won't know for sure until tomorrow or the next day

How will you know gor sure until tomorrow or next day?

[Alison]

There's a reason why they're mental notes

I have quoted posts that fanned the flames, and accused you of using those posts to try to set the town at each other's throats.

Your response is that you were using them as reaction tests to learn more about the alignments of other players, and that the results of these reaction tests are kept in your head as mental notes.

I am asking you to tell us what you have learned from these reaction tests so I can verify that you are not lying or making things up.

You have refused to do so, for no apparent reason, and attempted to redirect the conversation.

Either provide a clear, succinct, and verifiable reason why you cannot tell us what you have learned from the reaction tests you supposedly engaged in, or I will be forced to assume you are lying.

Jesus Christ it's because I don't have enough notes to systematically order my thoughts down and even if I did I'm too lazy to write a whole Great Wall of China

Nobody is asking for a great wall of China. I'm just asking you to tell me what you've learned from your reaction tests.

[112]

afk fishing at Catherby... GoC D1... what more could 112 ask for?

[alexa]

there's a chance she is town it is not exactly a red check i won't know for sure until tomorrow or the next day

How will you know gor sure until tomorrow or next day?

i literally can't reveal anything else without giving details about her role which would be really bad when mafia has a soup kill and when i think there's a chance she's town now

but she has confirmed that what i'm saying is believable and if she does flip you will see

[Phil and Gloria]

too many people trying to derp clear themselves off me here lol

wouldn't it only be a derp clear if you're mafia

cmon guy lol

[LinearPoint]

why is linear so hung up on alexa being N0 Rolecop specifically? At this point it feels like fishing for alexa to out what she actually is.
[VOTE: Linear] aubergine

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

that's fine to not like the vibe I just don't understand how you're so hung up on the role itself. Like alexa straight up said it's not RC and straight up said her info may not be alignment indicative. Whether or not you buy into that is up to you, but your dogged pursuit of it has me thinking "Linear is a wolf and latched onto this as a thing they can push" instead of "Linear is town and trying to understand how alexa says the things she says, and how nutella replies the way they did"

i've played with linear before and they were nothing like this (as V/V... or i was 3P idr but i was playing like V and they were V)

which is why i think their lack of logic irt this makes them a wolf

Talking in 3rd person probably makes things seem less logical.
But Neeko believes logic was used, just maybe conclusions were not correctly reached.
Not everyone is perfect.

[Phil and Gloria]

Mac is obviously Phil and Gloria

I read that as "Mac is obviously Phil Collins" and yeah, I can dig it

@MacDougall - you saw it with your own two eyes and are still not outing the wolf.

Why?

this is mafia not catch Phil Collins

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

[Phil and Gloria]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

Lock 112 as town all the way until lylo

112 c4 creature

These are almost never wolves

Alexa

Would be very surprised if she’s a wolf but most likely is town like 90+ % of the time here. This approach she’s taking would only be tailored to fool me if she’s mafia but idt she would do that in a lobby this big

I didn't know you were a bluekang alt

[EnderWiggin]

Can people stop posting fake derps for ten seconds please

There should be about 10 mafia, right?