Mafia Misplay Mafia

[Achromatic]

in the not caring world race we have jack who I believe didnt show up

[Achromatic]

Mac your world view seems to flip around a lot.

Let's do a nice, calm exercise. I really don't care what others think of you or your reads on them. I think if you are town you need to return to some basics, go through the game and pick out some defining moments and start building a town core. We have a lot of posts, more than enough for you to have a robust view of the game and it feels like atm you're cycling suspicion around half the player list.

Talk to me about your town core and why you suspect things as they are.

Because I feel like your current proposed list to buzz saw to solve has systemic issues.

[MacDougall]

a nice calm exercise? christ I'm not having a meltdown achro lol.

[MacDougall]

I'll do your thing later I'm too busy

[Achromatic]

a nice calm exercise? christ I'm not having a meltdown achro lol.

Yeah but you did say you aren't discussing Esooa because of how they would react as if it matters at all. It feels like you are declining to engage. So I am trying to be a safe space for you to engage without being AtE'd at. I don't even care if you disagree with all of my reads or go 'achro is lock wolf' again, but I need to find your pulse and so far I can't. If you're wolf I don't think you will be able to fool me by me engaging with you, and as town I hope I can find you. So this does nothing but benefit me.

[santygrass]

Idc if Achro is a wolf but the way they are approaching Mac rn its extremely helpful for the game to progress so Im going to shield them as long as they pay like this

[santygrass]

Now I need to figure out how to ISO

[MacDougall]

a nice calm exercise? christ I'm not having a meltdown achro lol.

Yeah but you did say you aren't discussing Esooa because of how they would react as if it matters at all. It feels like you are declining to engage. So I am trying to be a safe space for you to engage without being AtE'd at. I don't even care if you disagree with all of my reads or go 'achro is lock wolf' again, but I need to find your pulse and so far I can't. If you're wolf I don't think you will be able to fool me by me engaging with you, and as town I hope I can find you. So this does nothing but benefit me.

if I was a wolf I could fool you achro lol

[Achromatic]

Anyway @santygrass let's talk about Esooa's eod from a world of ender now flipped town and HK as a ? alignment for our purposes.

tbh I don't really see what Achro thinks is towny from HK there and it's weird you're defending someone so strongly while saying you're bad at reading them contantly

This pinged me originally as it didn't feel great but with ender flipping town there are two possibilities that lay in front of us. Either HK is a wolf in which case Esooa just decided to bus for fun and also attack me knowing HK would flip wolf, which is remotely possible but I find unlikely, or HK is v and in v worlds I don't feel like wolf Esooa chooses this tact to go after v me. You are already voting HK on a v/v wagon and this just by every definition looks bad if HK flips town here as you are attacking someone for being correct.

What I think, when I read this now, is that Esooa actually did care about the wagons at eod and she was none too happy with me using my thread pull to try to get hk to live because she doesn't have too much tmi and because she thought her case on hk was stronger than my defense and that it was annoying I was defending him when I wasn't even confident.

This one post flies in the face of your assertion that Esooa didn't care about eod, Santy, and it's just a bad evaluation on your part.

tbh I don't really see what Achro thinks is towny from HK there and it's weird you're defending someone so strongly while saying you're bad at reading them contantly

Well, two things.

You don't know me or you wouldn't think this is a strong defense from me. I am going to push my scum read over a town read, because duh.

Secondly just because I am bad at reading someone doesn't mean I won't try, but it will inform me on how hard I defend them.

You're that strong on a scum read when it's "this person who said they're not as invested this game hasn't shown me they're town on day 1" ?

Like wolf read him but idk, you're definitely doing a lot to push Ender over HK and saying you town read HK and etc

Similar here, feels like someone who is really trying to get the correct read and whose view of the game doesn't line up with mine.

I think in v hk worlds esooa is just v who was doing her best to examine the game.

Complete disagreement that Esooa wasn't invested in the outcome of this eod.

[Achromatic]

a nice calm exercise? christ I'm not having a meltdown achro lol.

Yeah but you did say you aren't discussing Esooa because of how they would react as if it matters at all. It feels like you are declining to engage. So I am trying to be a safe space for you to engage without being AtE'd at. I don't even care if you disagree with all of my reads or go 'achro is lock wolf' again, but I need to find your pulse and so far I can't. If you're wolf I don't think you will be able to fool me by me engaging with you, and as town I hope I can find you. So this does nothing but benefit me.

if I was a wolf I could fool you achro lol

Yeah, possibly. One of my BAD HABITS is being from one community so long it didn't hurt as much for everyone to get one with me. That's kind of my game. "You get one time you can fool me, then it gets hard" which sounds stupid but there wasn't much fooling me the second time around lol.

Even so though, nothing can break my confidence, because it is invincible. So either way make me believe you are town, and if you fool me you fool me.

[MacDougall]

I'm retiring from mafia soon. I have very waning wim. I'll try to do stuff but I've lost the spirit for it tbh.

[Achromatic]

I also think, independently of everything else, that Ender played such a game that in W HK worlds there was no bussing because it wasn't THAT hard to find reasons to poke holes in Ender.

I also don't think this is the world, but if you think HK is wolf you really need to demonstrate why any person on HK is wolf with him when it feels like doing the absolute most. In Mac's case Nook especially is voting HK, goes to ender for a bit, and then back to HK being on a short list with HK as a possible solve is just not thinking the game through unless you have something very specific in mind, and in that case I am all ears.

[Achromatic]

I'm retiring from mafia soon. I have very waning wim. I'll try to do stuff but I've lost the spirit for it tbh.

This is my true strength. I can suck shit in a game, take a deep breath, and then love mafia a day later.

My WIM will never die, it is an ever-burning flame.

I blame my thyroid medication.

[hollowkatt]

Visor wasn't scumreading me. He was my top town. I only ever make this kill if visor's other reads are right.

So you must think my partners are in santy/lily/achro right?

I cannot imagine a wolf team that contains mac/achro feeling any kind of fear over what visor was putting into the thread, even if he was 100% accurate on all his reads he lacked the thread presence to do anything with them.

[hollowkatt]

If Hk is scum, Outed Wolf EoD looked like, EXTREMELY paired to him . Killing there in a W!Hk doesnt make much sense woweee

HK is entering d2 assuming they die 100% of the time. The NK is for the benefit of the other 2 wolves not HK.

Unless the team is hk/Lily/Achro lr something like that I kinda doubt it. And it annoys me cuz I dont like hk approach in my slot at all oof

what do you mean you doubt it? I'm saying that if HK is mafia NKA doesn't apply to him.

I do tend to kill the people who wolf read me. Or a NK that would make me laugh, like when Tims invited me to play my first game on CFC proper and I killed him N1 for the lulz

[Achromatic]

I promised Sabi if I was wolf I would kill them last night.

Confirmed not Wolf tbh.

This is self meta that no one has to take seriously, but I know myself lol x)

[MacDougall]

wolf Mac town achro dynamic makes visor being a mac kill nonsense

[Achromatic]

wolf Mac town achro dynamic makes visor being a mac kill nonsense

Walk me through it. Who do you think Wolf Mac kills from your current town reads instead of OW? We'll keep the suspected people as possible mac partners.

[MacDougall]

wolf Mac town achro dynamic makes visor being a mac kill nonsense

Walk me through it. Who do you think Wolf Mac kills from your current town reads instead of OW? We'll keep the suspected people as possible mac partners.

Wolf Mac killing townreads is presumptive enough but in any world where I'm wolf and you're town killing the only other person putting you in check isn't something I'd condone. I'd just kill you. I have no doctors to dodge. You're the biggest problem. Bye bye. Probs push visor today lol.

[Achromatic]

Anyway to clarify my position about HK bus not making a lot of sense, if that statement is actually true it would mean the following people are fine:

Sabi, Lily, Nook, Jack, Santy, and Esooa and of course RIP Ender

If I am remembering the wagons correctly.

Viable off votals partners with a wolf HK are Me, Mac, Porscha, Wilgy, Snow, Neon with HK being wolf in this scenario and RIP OW.

The issue I have with this is I feel like OW's strong SRs were at times me/santy/lily, but in this model 2 of these voted for HK and I know I am town so there are worlds where HK was onto something somewhere he but I don't think those worlds exist with him being wrong about HK.

So as I've said before I think HK is just town.

[santygrass]

I'm voting hk

No clue why he voted me at all and he seemed to have just dropped it to omgus everyone possible. The way he's been pushing people has just been really reactive and wolfy imo. And I still think that original post on wagons is bad and going over it again like sure he's right he said a few times including the end it could mean they're town, but the entire premise of his post was that they weren't so him even including that just as a nod to it and then pushing me over it as if it was an actual point of his post feels really disingenuous

i wish i had tmi the uncertainty of this game is a bit stressful

feel like hk wont be a hit

I believe u

Yes hk all the scum fear you specifically.

not fear, opportunity.
nanook isn't wrong that I have a volume tell as wolf. Often I get wolf read early (as wolf) and then struggle to continue to post for fear that whatever it is I'm about to write is only going to look worse for me than what I've already done. You can see examples of that in my last few wolf games on MU.

But here he's trying to expand what is basically a strict volume tell where my posting is depressed in general to a volume tell that is relative to the thread which has never really historically been the situation, it's always been a strict "under x posts likely wolf, over x posts likely town", it's never been relative.

His argument that my posting is lackluster, or I'm making not only classically bad posts but classically HK wolf posts also falls flat, little of what I've written in this thread is fluffy bullshit.

So no, I don't think nanook, as a wolf, would fear me so much as nanook, as a wolf, would recognize I can do good work for town clearing other people and if he can find a push that would get me over I firmly believe he'd take that opportunity.

I think the same thing could and would apply to ender as well. He's seen my town game several times, and seen my wolf game at least a couple, and the way he limped into a HK wolf read is really off his traditional town game and while I recognize IRL happens and keeps people away from the game as all alignments the way Ender is burst posting without doing anything outside of catch-up and commentary I struggle to see how that's town indicative.

this response from nanook is completely reasonable and HK never acknowledges it, and HK's vote on me is literally never explained other than he just votes me after I wolf read him, but once I stopped that he just stopped caring about me or mentioning me at all. Like I literally can't figure out a single thing looking at his recent posts that he's thinking other than "people pushing me is bad" and that's just such a pathetic view of the game, especially the way he voted me while I was a wagon and never explained anything about it then just moved on once I stopped posting about him

Until he comes back and says kill everyone wolf reading him and doesn't even name who so I don't even know what he thinks right now lmao

actually thinking about it I buy a lot more that Neon is just a lost towny, I kinda felt the same a lot of the time I was reading thread with how much fluff or just things I didn't care about there was, and especially with there being 2800 posts I can see that being overwhelming for someone irrespective of being a wolf

Think I lost some quotes I feel like I ISO'ed suboptimally. But this feels greatly unpaired with hk, and them caring about them getting wagondd and stuff. Think I lost it but one of this posts was a reply for Porscha saying that they townread hk.

In other news them still having at Neon/ris in similar tiers in regards to reads is worrying to me. Going to continue that Im enterimg their entrance near EoD now

[Achromatic]

wolf Mac town achro dynamic makes visor being a mac kill nonsense

Walk me through it. Who do you think Wolf Mac kills from your current town reads instead of OW? We'll keep the suspected people as possible mac partners.

Wolf Mac killing townreads is presumptive enough but in any world where I'm wolf and you're town killing the only other person putting you in check isn't something I'd condone. I'd just kill you. I have no doctors to dodge. You're the biggest problem. Bye bye. Probs push visor today lol.

Hmm, this pings me. I am, of course, always lovely to think of myself as a problem, but both Sabi and OW were after me and I feel as if my thread position was not as good as it could have been since I had, after all, just lynched town yesterday. This feels more like "the answer wolf mac thinks town achro wants to hear" and less like what a wolf mac would do.

I also think a brilliant way of attempting to cut me off at my legs is by have NKA point in my direction rather than take a potential mislynch off the board - especially given that OW I think was exceedingly townie at eod as I pointed out as well.

Also I kept it to town reads because I don't think you kill someone who could be mislynched potentially, but perhaps that's not your wolf game and you don't care about that.

Thanks for answering though.

[Achromatic]

I'm voting hk

No clue why he voted me at all and he seemed to have just dropped it to omgus everyone possible. The way he's been pushing people has just been really reactive and wolfy imo. And I still think that original post on wagons is bad and going over it again like sure he's right he said a few times including the end it could mean they're town, but the entire premise of his post was that they weren't so him even including that just as a nod to it and then pushing me over it as if it was an actual point of his post feels really disingenuous

i wish i had tmi the uncertainty of this game is a bit stressful

feel like hk wont be a hit

I believe u

Yes hk all the scum fear you specifically.

not fear, opportunity.
nanook isn't wrong that I have a volume tell as wolf. Often I get wolf read early (as wolf) and then struggle to continue to post for fear that whatever it is I'm about to write is only going to look worse for me than what I've already done. You can see examples of that in my last few wolf games on MU.

But here he's trying to expand what is basically a strict volume tell where my posting is depressed in general to a volume tell that is relative to the thread which has never really historically been the situation, it's always been a strict "under x posts likely wolf, over x posts likely town", it's never been relative.

His argument that my posting is lackluster, or I'm making not only classically bad posts but classically HK wolf posts also falls flat, little of what I've written in this thread is fluffy bullshit.

So no, I don't think nanook, as a wolf, would fear me so much as nanook, as a wolf, would recognize I can do good work for town clearing other people and if he can find a push that would get me over I firmly believe he'd take that opportunity.

I think the same thing could and would apply to ender as well. He's seen my town game several times, and seen my wolf game at least a couple, and the way he limped into a HK wolf read is really off his traditional town game and while I recognize IRL happens and keeps people away from the game as all alignments the way Ender is burst posting without doing anything outside of catch-up and commentary I struggle to see how that's town indicative.

this response from nanook is completely reasonable and HK never acknowledges it, and HK's vote on me is literally never explained other than he just votes me after I wolf read him, but once I stopped that he just stopped caring about me or mentioning me at all. Like I literally can't figure out a single thing looking at his recent posts that he's thinking other than "people pushing me is bad" and that's just such a pathetic view of the game, especially the way he voted me while I was a wagon and never explained anything about it then just moved on once I stopped posting about him

Until he comes back and says kill everyone wolf reading him and doesn't even name who so I don't even know what he thinks right now lmao

actually thinking about it I buy a lot more that Neon is just a lost towny, I kinda felt the same a lot of the time I was reading thread with how much fluff or just things I didn't care about there was, and especially with there being 2800 posts I can see that being overwhelming for someone irrespective of being a wolf

Think I lost some quotes I feel like I ISO'ed suboptimally. But this feels greatly unpaired with hk, and them caring about them getting wagondd and stuff. Think I lost it but one of this posts was a reply for Porscha saying that they townread hk.

In other news them still having at Neon/ris in similar tiers in regards to reads is worrying to me. Going to continue that Im enterimg their entrance near EoD now

This + my perspective feels like your point about Esooa not caring about who died is now invalid entirely. Correct?

[Sabiplz]

Hi I feel calmer but still pretty annoyed.

Anything for me? Or should I just go to bed? My energy is pretty low rn.

[santygrass]

@Esooa explain your read in lilypetal?

[Achromatic]

Hi I feel calmer but still pretty annoyed.

Anything for me? Or should I just go to bed? My energy is pretty low rn.

Just go to bed, playing mafia annoyed and low on energy is no way to play mafia. I'll handle things.

[Achromatic]

Ender what are your strongest 2 trs?
And if it were for you, which 2 slots would you want to see as lead wagons?

Porscha and Rising for townreads.

Probably you/hk/mac for wagons.

Hm. I remembered the Visor legacy read and thought to myself 'poor ender' having forgotten this post from him.

He also liked Neon's interactions with him, so that also weighs on my mind in neon's favor.

[Achromatic]

Both of our dead townies really wanted to murder Santy huh.

Really going to have to schedule that re-eval soon

[santygrass]

does the day end in an hour?

oh that soon wtf I'm playing runescape

I can't pause it's an online game

This is the Esooa Busy thing. Unfortunate but I can understnd being a factor in how thei reads play out EoD

guys can i get a recap of both of the cases on both of these wagons

ty

My ender suspicion is that I haven't been able to find him as town today while for a lot of others it has been really easy. Some of his posts feel manufactured and in general his reactions to things don't enthuse me at any point. Kind of a 'either you see it or don't' case.

In HK's case I found a lot of his work sounded like he would believe it and he has come to some reasonable conclusions that I follow.

tbh I don't really see what Achro thinks is towny from HK there and it's weird you're defending someone so strongly while saying you're bad at reading them contantly

tbh I don't really see what Achro thinks is towny from HK there and it's weird you're defending someone so strongly while saying you're bad at reading them contantly

Well, two things.

You don't know me or you wouldn't think this is a strong defense from me. I am going to push my scum read over a town read, because duh.

Secondly just because I am bad at reading someone doesn't mean I won't try, but it will inform me on how hard I defend them.

You're that strong on a scum read when it's "this person who said they're not as invested this game hasn't shown me they're town on day 1" ?

Like wolf read him but idk, you're definitely doing a lot to push Ender over HK and saying you town read HK and etc

This lashback at Achro looks nice, yeab

everyone should turn on their online status.

it is a symbol of towniness

it should literally be off by default and impossible to turn on

Unrelated topic whatev

Neon is probably town because of paranoia on me pr something

Neon is probably town because of paranoia on me pr something

yeah those posts were good

Flowers to Neon. Still irky there.

Ender literally plays like this in the past 5 games I've seen him play town in

he can still be a wolf but idk how anyone sees his posts as actively wolfy lol except micro stuff

Thinking emoji. Will keep in mind that Pov I guess

I just got a fire cape in runescape

This one is prob what triggered me to make my read plus not feeling Esooa involved much , fwiw

Esooa EoD also sussy btw

wow extremely original post about the busy person who thought EoD was 2 hours later than it was isn't contributing much

I'm not really interested in engagin with HK being obnoxious af, he should just be dying, I said my reads

And like, totally understandable as V not caring anymore when a wagon or push turns like that. So wowee Achro prob right that my reads doesnt holds up much huh

santy's other posts are towny though

I said multiple times ender fucks about and does nothing as town constantly and killing him is super whatever and no one listened so guess what we have a really useless kill day 1

Prob towny here Yeah

actually Santy's posts this EoD aren't towny they're rly bad

And this switch feels like almost a towny flip flop maybe. But probs want to see more insight from @Esooa at that moment to check things uo maybe

sabi
porscha
lily
outed wolf
achro
neon
mac
drwilgy
santy
hk
jack
esooa
ender
nook


hmmmmm

That Nook read is like, amazingly wrong imo. Read their push on hk when you git the chance, I thought it was pretty towny

"those 2 things nanook said mean ur wolf read is amazing wrong, but esooa is a wolf too btw" wtf game are u playing lol

This post I remeber thinking 'Could see a wolfy doing it'. So wowee

I'm not voting santy and I wasn't defending Ender that much because I also think w/v wagons are likely because of how votes played out, and he's not done much so like if he dies he dies, I still think he's town though, but everyones pushing into one of the two and wolves are more likely to have some off wagon votes if v/v but here there's none, and like wtf am I even supposed to defend Ender with he's not really done anything

Pron towny yeah, the hunt for hk is there. Tho the neon/ris difference raises consideration to me.
Prob tomorrow goin relook at Neom, parking my vote there in the meantime. My eyes are closing on its own so there are more typos than usual. Also wowee caring about the formatting of this post glgl

[Achromatic]

@santygrass

Hi. Can you give me your current list of town/scum and also find the last time you posted this list and quote it for me? I am having trouble finding it in your iso.

[santygrass]

VOTECOUNT AS OF RN

MacDougall (2) - Lilypetal, Achromatic
Santygrass (2) - sabiplz, hollowkatt
JackOfHearts (1) - Porscha
Achromatic (1) - Neon
Neon (1) - Santyhrass

[santygrass]

Town: Lily, nanook, riisinq,Porscha
Achro, Sabi, hollowkatt, MacDougall

Sussy: Esooa, Neon, Jack

Rn Im not going to look for a prev list. But Tbh I expect to be wrong in 1 tr for sure, but thinking in probs finding who after I got a wolf flipped. I am reassessing tho, cuz My read on Essooa EoD was kinda bad, but rereading there I cant get over just the contrast difference in how they read ris and neon ig.
And maybe the analysis is wrong and maybe mac is right and hk is a hit. Or Mac is a hit. Idk. Feeling comfy voting for neon rn

Gnn

[Achromatic]

I still think esooa is mad sus.

Mac, do you still feel this way after the case laid out by me and santy in terms of her motivations at EOD regardless of HK's alignment? I know your latest list didn't have her on it but it is good to to interact with cases on people to try to firm up your view of the game.

I mean if this is v/v I'm not shocked, I just think Hkatt is more villagery than Ender. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I would rather kill outside these wagons but nobody but Sabi has seemed interested in it.

It is very unlikely t/t imo. Wagons like these don't usually form unless there is a wolf in them.

If you believe this to be true why are your possible partners with HK as of your latest reading almost exclusively people who would have had to bus him for this to be true?

As much as I hate these sort of reads HK doesn't usually get tilted when being run up as mafia. Not sure I've seen him get tilted ever personally but having buried him many times I can't remember him ever getting angry at me for it.

Can you walk me through how the wagonomics appears to be a stronger indicator for alignment than this read of HK's personal history?

[Achromatic]

@santygrass

I think you might literally be the only player in this entire game to have me as town the entire time you have been here. If you have expressed doubts about my towniness can you point them out for me?

[risiinq-]

I think you still chop me today unless you're willing to consider me modfirmed town.

HK is mod confirmed town

[risiinq-]

@santygrass

I think you might literally be the only player in this entire game to have me as town the entire time you have been here. If you have expressed doubts about my towniness can you point them out for me?

hey achro i think you're towny now!

[Achromatic]

@santygrass

I think you might literally be the only player in this entire game to have me as town the entire time you have been here. If you have expressed doubts about my towniness can you point them out for me?

hey achro i think you're towny now!

I meant like, from start to finish. I didn't word that the best.

Why am I towny?

[risiinq-]

@santygrass

I think you might literally be the only player in this entire game to have me as town the entire time you have been here. If you have expressed doubts about my towniness can you point them out for me?

hey achro i think you're towny now!

I meant like, from start to finish. I didn't word that the best.

Why am I towny?

i think ur eod was really towny and i like how u approached things

i also think i kinda just confbiased myself into wolfreading u from start of day 1, shrug

[Achromatic]

It happens.

I see you are voting Mac. Who are your other suspects atm?

[risiinq-]

oh i'm not sure. i just have a poe right now based off of like my townreads

gonna be honest here and say i did not catchup during night lol. but im pretty free today so ill be able to threadcamp more

[Achromatic]

Cool. Would love to know all your town reads and some reasons why you town read them. I have you are solid town and hopefully others who aren't aa solid can interact with what you are doing and some town can find each other and we can collectively stab a wolf.

[risiinq-]

kinda just feel like mac is a wolf bcuz he's off, i dont really have a super concrete reason and im voting there to just test the waters.

when i get in front of my desk again ill try to do some isos/notetaking, although i do have some work to do

[risiinq-]

my most confident townread is sabi and i really dont see myself backtracking on that anytime soon.

i think porscha is still rly good and they have nothing going against them at all. these are my most confident townreads fwiw

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sighs

[risiinq-]

i do not feel like killing HK today and i hope that this is not a bad idea. the visor kill makes me feel better about this.

drwigly has personally fallen off for me, as has nook

achro has gotten a lot better for me and this isn't a read that is going up and down, im kinda down for locking it in for now

lily santy and neon are all slots ive felt good about from time to time but these i need to reevaluate

my immediate PoE is {drwigly, nook, mac, esooa, jack} though.

[Porscha]

Sighs

hey

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sup

[Porscha]

so what do you think of ender flip

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Not particularly surprised by it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean, I said at the time i think that I felt like I should be TRing him, I didn't all the way get there but obviously its not surprising when he flipped town lol