King of the Hill Mafia

[MacDougall]

mac if neon is town then who do u think we should kill today

My solve is a few posts back just scroll lol.

Creature is who I would flip personally. If not Alison herself.

[Alison]

And you are still dodging answering why you wouldn't just go "yeah, read Alison by her results" to pressure me to bus if you truly think I am mafia. I have spoken openly before about how people policying me if I don't have a pelt has led to me feeling pressure to bus my teammates when I am scum so you know it is an effective strategy.

[MacDougall]

I think you're conflating the way I treat you with the way you treat me actually. I've rarely actually done that and certainly not lately.

And whether or not I'm correct my current feelings are you've been more wrong in recent games than you usually are so the points you're trying to make that stem from "I've been excellent" aren't really relevant sadly.

List the games where I've been more wrong than usual in? I know it isn't Two Kill because you explicitly described that as being "probably my best town game ever". Is it Kid's Birthday Party, where I had a game winning POE on Day 2? Spiritfarer where I stomped the game while yelling at the town to stop tinfoiling SPF and vote out the actual mafia?

Honestly Alison you keep shifting the point of relevance around in a way that isn't benefiting either of us. How I feel about how you've performed as town of late is the least relevant part of the conversation.

[MacDougall]

And you are still dodging answering why you wouldn't just go "yeah, read Alison by her results" to pressure me to bus if you truly think I am mafia. I have spoken openly before about how people policying me if I don't have a pelt has led to me feeling pressure to bus my teammates when I am scum so you know it is an effective strategy.

I am disengaging from you as of this post. This is bloating the thread and disrupting other people's play in a way that's making the game harder to read for the town. Alison/Mac back and forths are some of the least interesting, persuasive and alignment indicative stretches of posts in any game that we're both in.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Lilypetal]

@Neon

talk to me abt the game

who is your top town read?

I don't remember what I've half jokingly but totally whole heartedly said my reads were anymore.

So SPF.

you randed wolf, didn't you?

[Alison]

I have played this way in many games you've been a part of. I am sure there are those in this game that can attest to that fact. So you're making things up. This way being "fuck around for the first half of day 1". Like if anything this is my most common form. The way you're reacting to it is a real head scratcher and is making it very difficult for me to even humour you as town.

[snip]

I did not say that.

I am not scumreading you for fucking around, I am scumreading you for the way you have approached my slot this game.

You did not say that my pushes flip town at different rates depending on my alignment? Then what do you mean by "Alison can't be read on results"? Because if my alignment is correlated to how often my pushes flip town/mafia then I can definitely be read on results yeah?

No I didn't say that your pushes flip town at different rates depending on your alignment. Even if that is strictly true mathematically it's still unredable and you've articulated why yourself at several points.

1. As town, you might kill a town or mafia slanker at probably about a coinflip clip.
2. As mafia, you will probably kill a mafia slanker on day 1 actually more often than a town one quite honestly.

I will add that refusing to believe you can be read on play is asinine because I've read you as mafia for being irrational and pushing with bad logic before and been correct. I don't need to wait and see to read you. If you keep pushing me (or others) for reasons that don't align with archetypal Alison moves then I'm just gonna scumread you.

You don't get the same leisure in your read on me because I have variance to my town play that you don't have sadly.

I never said I can't be read on play. I'm questioning why you have this weird insistence on not reading me by results. You are very trying to forcibly paint a picture of Alison play that is both untrue and convenient to you and I'm not accepting it.

Tell me where I have been so inaccurate as town recently that you stopped thinking I have a high accuracy rate as town.

Tell me why you think I am more likely to kill a mafia slanker on Day 1, especially when the person with the best Alison meta is loudly saying that she can't be read on results and therefore there is no pressure on me to bus.

Tell me what reasons I have been using to push people that don't align with "archetypal Alison moves".

[robyn]

Mac will produce a pelt
[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Alison]

I think you're conflating the way I treat you with the way you treat me actually. I've rarely actually done that and certainly not lately.

And whether or not I'm correct my current feelings are you've been more wrong in recent games than you usually are so the points you're trying to make that stem from "I've been excellent" aren't really relevant sadly.

List the games where I've been more wrong than usual in? I know it isn't Two Kill because you explicitly described that as being "probably my best town game ever". Is it Kid's Birthday Party, where I had a game winning POE on Day 2? Spiritfarer where I stomped the game while yelling at the town to stop tinfoiling SPF and vote out the actual mafia?

Honestly Alison you keep shifting the point of relevance around in a way that isn't benefiting either of us. How I feel about how you've performed as town of late is the least relevant part of the conversation.

It is extremely relevant because if I have been accurate as town then you should naturally hold me to a high standard for obtaining pelts which you are actively arguing against.

[Boquise]

@lucy Just curious, would you say you are good at reading Alison? Or is it more of a one way street?

Cause if you guys are not w/w, I would likely just sheep a read there depending on how things go.

she's probably much better at reading me as town
but she's wolfed against me x2
and I haven't wolfed against her after 6ish games together
why would we be w/w or why would there be a wolf in us to begin with

oh ok I see. Thanks. What did you think of her early town read on you when she came into the game?

And oh, you misunderstood. I didn't say there was a mafia among yall or anything like that. I was just gonna see how accurate ur reads are on each other, and if I see as the game progresses that if you guys are not partners (not w/w), then I would likely sheep the confidence on the read since I saw Alison was tr you to begin the game. And likewise if you would tr Alison in the future with confidence I would sheep it as well, which is why I was asking how confident u are in reading Alison in general.

It's merely a hypothetical and future thought to keep in mind.

I know her wolf game decently, and I'd trust her read on me much more than my read on her
I'd say accurate enough for mutual reads to be a clever and good idea that should be followed
I figure she knows my town game very well, in spec chat I SR her for not giving me a TR lmao

Ah ok I see fs, ty! I will keep that in mind.

I also briefly skimmed your mafia games and I did see you portray similar WIM in the beginning so I was a bit foolish to tr you for the earlier reason I gave.

One thing I noticed tho is you are more aggressive with your reads and attempt to emotionally manipulate people in to voting your sr more often as town. Would you say that is correct?

gotta Lynch townies innit
funnily enough that is what I have to do as town (be louder) against my scum reads
and now that you've said this with the aforementioned in mind I think that's completely NAI this game
but I didn't know I did that myself, good to know next time I rand scum, thanks

lol, your welcome I guess?

And that's kind of weird the way you just phrazed that saying it's NAI for this game now that I brought it up. Are you saying it's NAI cause now you will use that tactic when u are mafia which negates what meta you did in your previous games as town?

Feeling more confident with my Aro read tbh

[Alison]

And you are still dodging answering why you wouldn't just go "yeah, read Alison by her results" to pressure me to bus if you truly think I am mafia. I have spoken openly before about how people policying me if I don't have a pelt has led to me feeling pressure to bus my teammates when I am scum so you know it is an effective strategy.

I am disengaging from you as of this post. This is bloating the thread and disrupting other people's play in a way that's making the game harder to read for the town. Alison/Mac back and forths are some of the least interesting, persuasive and alignment indicative stretches of posts in any game that we're both in.

This part is true at least.

Whatever.

I still think you are scum and I am just going to POE you unless/until you get a pelt. Because I think you can be read on results.

[Boquise]

Man Mac and here i was looking forward to ask you why yo voted me tbh

[MacDougall]

I just reread Neon's ISO to see if there is anything in it I've missed that's making ppl sus of them and it's made my townread stronger.

I see someone who is certainly disconnected from the game in a conscious way that is still making livepost reads that I can see the rational of. Their self defense posts feel like town. I also think Lilypetal is treating Neon in bad faith knowing what I know about how Lilypetal reads people. Looking at the early Lilypetal interactions with Neon I am surprised to find Lilypetal pushing Neon. Neon feels more like someone town Lilypetal would be prone to reading as town and shielding.

[Alison]

@Neon You seem convinced that there is a wolf in the people who have pushed you but that I specifically am wrong town. Why?

[MacDougall]

she's probably much better at reading me as town
but she's wolfed against me x2
and I haven't wolfed against her after 6ish games together
why would we be w/w or why would there be a wolf in us to begin with

oh ok I see. Thanks. What did you think of her early town read on you when she came into the game?

And oh, you misunderstood. I didn't say there was a mafia among yall or anything like that. I was just gonna see how accurate ur reads are on each other, and if I see as the game progresses that if you guys are not partners (not w/w), then I would likely sheep the confidence on the read since I saw Alison was tr you to begin the game. And likewise if you would tr Alison in the future with confidence I would sheep it as well, which is why I was asking how confident u are in reading Alison in general.

It's merely a hypothetical and future thought to keep in mind.

I know her wolf game decently, and I'd trust her read on me much more than my read on her
I'd say accurate enough for mutual reads to be a clever and good idea that should be followed
I figure she knows my town game very well, in spec chat I SR her for not giving me a TR lmao

Ah ok I see fs, ty! I will keep that in mind.

I also briefly skimmed your mafia games and I did see you portray similar WIM in the beginning so I was a bit foolish to tr you for the earlier reason I gave.

One thing I noticed tho is you are more aggressive with your reads and attempt to emotionally manipulate people in to voting your sr more often as town. Would you say that is correct?

gotta Lynch townies innit
funnily enough that is what I have to do as town (be louder) against my scum reads
and now that you've said this with the aforementioned in mind I think that's completely NAI this game
but I didn't know I did that myself, good to know next time I rand scum, thanks

lol, your welcome I guess?

And that's kind of weird the way you just phrazed that saying it's NAI for this game now that I brought it up. Are you saying it's NAI cause now you will use that tactic when u are mafia which negates what meta you did in your previous games as town?

Feeling more confident with my Aro read tbh

What is your aro read?

[Boquise]

Yo, Mac. I see you are here. If you don't mind, what's ur current shotgun of reads? I haven't caught up since around page 9ish. So I just wanted to realtime before I leave for a bit and then come back.

poe is like

Creature
Alison
porscha
lilypetal

can you talk about creature? i actually thought he was fine when i was pressuring him a while back and think he generally comes off as more awkward/stilted/struggling to post unique thoughts as a wolf, and that he has been fine in this game by comparison. he's done a few things that have mildly pinged me but i find him towny on the whole

This is consistent with the concern spf had on Creature earlier, when she said creature just used her read on lily and was selling it as his own tbh

[Boquise]

oh ok I see. Thanks. What did you think of her early town read on you when she came into the game?

And oh, you misunderstood. I didn't say there was a mafia among yall or anything like that. I was just gonna see how accurate ur reads are on each other, and if I see as the game progresses that if you guys are not partners (not w/w), then I would likely sheep the confidence on the read since I saw Alison was tr you to begin the game. And likewise if you would tr Alison in the future with confidence I would sheep it as well, which is why I was asking how confident u are in reading Alison in general.

It's merely a hypothetical and future thought to keep in mind.

I know her wolf game decently, and I'd trust her read on me much more than my read on her
I'd say accurate enough for mutual reads to be a clever and good idea that should be followed
I figure she knows my town game very well, in spec chat I SR her for not giving me a TR lmao

Ah ok I see fs, ty! I will keep that in mind.

I also briefly skimmed your mafia games and I did see you portray similar WIM in the beginning so I was a bit foolish to tr you for the earlier reason I gave.

One thing I noticed tho is you are more aggressive with your reads and attempt to emotionally manipulate people in to voting your sr more often as town. Would you say that is correct?

gotta Lynch townies innit
funnily enough that is what I have to do as town (be louder) against my scum reads
and now that you've said this with the aforementioned in mind I think that's completely NAI this game
but I didn't know I did that myself, good to know next time I rand scum, thanks

lol, your welcome I guess?

And that's kind of weird the way you just phrazed that saying it's NAI for this game now that I brought it up. Are you saying it's NAI cause now you will use that tactic when u are mafia which negates what meta you did in your previous games as town?

Feeling more confident with my Aro read tbh

What is your aro read?

Town

[Alison]

I think Creature's posting has been fine. I am not lock clearing him because he is a better wolf than I gave him credit for but I looked at his ISO and there are no wolfy posts in it and several that are characteristic of his town play, especially the ones where he expresses this weird mix of equal suspicion and desire to sheep strong mafia players.

[Alison]

The top wagons being Boquise and Creature are stupid.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

[Alison]

What's your read on me, Boq + what is your worldview/reads?

[MacDougall]

Alison related meh

Spoiler: show

You are very trying to forcibly paint a picture of Alison play that is both untrue and convenient to you and I'm not accepting it.

I think mafia is >rand to be coasting/slanking right now because this threadstate is ideal for it. There is a general sense of low energy, lots of people aren't playing much or are playing very shallowly (fluffy one liners and dip), and most players seem aimless. Even people like Mac and Seanzie who are usually WIM powerhouses don't seem motivated. This is the sort of game where people just kick back and eat popcorn in the mafia chat knowing they cannot be held accountable for doing nothing when half the game is.

So I am just gonna start killing slankers.

see this is why you can't measure alison on results anymore lol

Very trying to forcibly? I made two offhand remarks. Ain't no trying to very forcibly anything...

And you're also ignoring that I was doing so not to undermine the chance of you getting cleared off a wolfread, my mindset was trying to prevent you getting mischopped day 2 if you kill a town slanker.

The true foundation of my scumread on you is relatively simple. You're full of shit. You keep framing points in a way that they weren't meant to. You keep hitting me with "gotcha" reads. You keep using strawman logic, and you are just inventing reasons to scumread me that aren't there when by now I'm well past the point of having had my alignment baited out of me by you. When I can read you like this, seeing someone like SPF all "I'm just gonna read Alison on results" is fucken derpy cuz you're playing like an openwolf in front of people. And you've also done the tried and tested "engage Mac for an hour and make him postcap" trick as well.

[Lilypetal]

I just reread Neon's ISO to see if there is anything in it I've missed that's making ppl sus of them and it's made my townread stronger.

I see someone who is certainly disconnected from the game in a conscious way that is still making livepost reads that I can see the rational of. Their self defense posts feel like town. I also think Lilypetal is treating Neon in bad faith knowing what I know about how Lilypetal reads people. Looking at the early Lilypetal interactions with Neon I am surprised to find Lilypetal pushing Neon. Neon feels more like someone town Lilypetal would be prone to reading as town and shielding.

i'm not pushing just that last post was really wtf to me lol

[Alison]

Alison related meh

Spoiler: show

You are very trying to forcibly paint a picture of Alison play that is both untrue and convenient to you and I'm not accepting it.

I think mafia is >rand to be coasting/slanking right now because this threadstate is ideal for it. There is a general sense of low energy, lots of people aren't playing much or are playing very shallowly (fluffy one liners and dip), and most players seem aimless. Even people like Mac and Seanzie who are usually WIM powerhouses don't seem motivated. This is the sort of game where people just kick back and eat popcorn in the mafia chat knowing they cannot be held accountable for doing nothing when half the game is.

So I am just gonna start killing slankers.

see this is why you can't measure alison on results anymore lol

Very trying to forcibly? I made two offhand remarks. Ain't no trying to very forcibly anything...

And you're also ignoring that I was doing so not to undermine the chance of you getting cleared off a wolfread, my mindset was trying to prevent you getting mischopped day 2 if you kill a town slanker.

The true foundation of my scumread on you is relatively simple. You're full of shit. You keep framing points in a way that they weren't meant to. You keep hitting me with "gotcha" reads. You keep using strawman logic, and you are just inventing reasons to scumread me that aren't there when by now I'm well past the point of having had my alignment baited out of me by you. When I can read you like this, seeing someone like SPF all "I'm just gonna read Alison on results" is fucken derpy cuz you're playing like an openwolf in front of people. And you've also done the tried and tested "engage Mac for an hour and make him postcap" trick as well.

I have done none of these things. This is a blatant misrepresentation of my play.

[robyn]

chances of mac/alison being v/v?

[Alison]

Also if you want to stop talking then stop talking. None of this "let's disengage, we talk about other things, and then you go back and make a post saying I use bad logic and strawman you" nonsense. I'm going to do what I said and give you the space to explore your worldview and push your reads and potentially bag a pelt if you are town or feel obligated to bus a teammate if not. If you are concerned about this messing up the threadstate or postcapping you then stop responding and go do your own thing and stop trying to drag me back into an argument that is over.

[Alison]

chances of mac/alison being v/v?

I think Mac has a decent chance to be a wolf.

I have gotten dragged into early fights with him when we are V/V before but the last time it happened we found each other pretty confidently by the end of D1 (and I think we would have found each other in Cats vs Dogs too if he had not been nightkilled).

So I think if we are V/V we will realize it soon enough and if it gets dragged out any longer than that odds are likely it is not V/V.

[Boquise]

anyway @falcon45ca @MissSparkles @Seanzie @Boquise i have never played with any of u all before unless im forgetting something so i would like to talk about the game and get your vibes before this day phase is over

Feel free to pick any of my read posts and ask questions about it tbh

[robyn]

@spf do you think I eventually become obvious later on, alignment wise, or am I difficult to read the entire game?

yeah, so basically you and Mac should enter parley and scum hunt

[robyn]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

[Boquise]

What's your read on me, Boq + what is your worldview/reads?

I am keeping you strictly at null based on the knowledge i have of your scum game. There are a few outliers I am looking at: last game I got bad feels when you kept pushing for gghana and in hindsight you were a bit pockety to me.

In this game you haven't (as of page 14), and your neon push had a more game relevant explanation behind it.

I have some town reads (same as i had before i went to sleep, you quoted it iirc) and a lot of nulls. I am thinking of voting Jack or Nanook just to see what happens because rn they're just null to me tbh

[Boquise]

Also i dont really understand the votes on me or the assumed scum reads, but it is what it is tbh

As long as they don't distract me from solving i am alright tbh

[robyn]

mac's town tbh

[Alison]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

He's not. He's voting Creature.

[robyn]

Mac and boq are towncore

[Alison]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

He's not. He's voting Creature.

Oh no he silently switched to Jackofhearts who is the person I am voting lol.

[robyn]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

He's not. He's voting Creature.

he was, he switched from you onto Creature
I don't see scum Mac ever voting you for a minute without telling anyone only to vote with you

[Boquise]

@staypositivefriend

I am going to put my vote on Boquise. I think after briefly ISO diving, falcon and seanzie seem like comfortable townies. I think Boquise seems a lot more unnatural, sheeps consensus (which isn't necessarily wolfy but eh the way they do it doesn't sit right with me), and looks to be more awkward in tone than others in the thread. This is my first time playing with them and I understand it might be a playstyle thing but I am lightly scum reading this slot.

I appreciate you pushing me to look at the thread in a different light. I won't take you up on your deal though and will place my vote alone. Thanks for the push

i forgor how to put the vote thing here but uhh im voting boquise

Aww I wish that I had left the "awkward" stage by now, seems like i still have a lot to learn tbh!

What's the consensus that I have sheeped?

[robyn]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

He's not. He's voting Creature.

Oh no he silently switched to Jackofhearts who is the person I am voting lol.

2 different votes in a few mins lol, unironically not performative at all

[Boquise]

@staypositivefriend

I am going to put my vote on Boquise. I think after briefly ISO diving, falcon and seanzie seem like comfortable townies. I think Boquise seems a lot more unnatural, sheeps consensus (which isn't necessarily wolfy but eh the way they do it doesn't sit right with me), and looks to be more awkward in tone than others in the thread. This is my first time playing with them and I understand it might be a playstyle thing but I am lightly scum reading this slot.

I appreciate you pushing me to look at the thread in a different light. I won't take you up on your deal though and will place my vote alone. Thanks for the push

i forgor how to put the vote thing here but uhh im voting boquise

[VOTE: boquise] aubergine

thanks dougally

I'm a support blanket

Hmpf

[Alison]

Mac, why are you voting Alison, there's like 0% chance she's chopped today, you know this

He's not. He's voting Creature.

he was, he switched from you onto Creature
I don't see scum Mac ever voting you for a minute without telling anyone only to vote with you

Oh he was voting me? I only saw him vote Creature and Jack at the times I looked at the poll.

That is kinda interesting. Probably more likely to come from town Mac yeah, scum Mac tends to be more calculative in his moves.

[Alison]

I don't know why Mac is voting with me if he is scum though, he has clearly stated he believes I am mafia and that even if I am town my slanker pushes are a coinflip.

[Alison]

I don't know why Mac is voting with me if he is scum though, he has clearly stated he believes I am mafia and that even if I am town my slanker pushes are a coinflip.

if he is town*

[robyn]

I don't know why Mac is voting with me if he is scum though, he has clearly stated he believes I am mafia and that even if I am town my slanker pushes are a coinflip.

and he voted you for a bit without telling anyone
ergo no tmi
ergo town

[Alison]

I don't know why Mac is voting with me if he is scum though, he has clearly stated he believes I am mafia and that even if I am town my slanker pushes are a coinflip.

and he voted you for a bit without telling anyone
ergo no tmi
ergo town

Maybe

[MacDougall]

I retract my scumread on Creature and am voting with Creature.

[Boquise]

I think mafia is >rand to be coasting/slanking right now because this threadstate is ideal for it. There is a general sense of low energy, lots of people aren't playing much or are playing very shallowly (fluffy one liners and dip), and most players seem aimless. Even people like Mac and Seanzie who are usually WIM powerhouses don't seem motivated. This is the sort of game where people just kick back and eat popcorn in the mafia chat knowing they cannot be held accountable for doing nothing when half the game is.

So I am just gonna start killing slankers.

So it's you/Boq/??? and your plan to powerwolf and yeet people who are playing "suboptimally" didn't work, so now you have to try to save Boq by going for LHF?

Did I read between the lines correctly?

No.

Seanzie btfo'd tbh

[Boquise]

i don't think the mafia are looking at this boq wagon and going

if Boq is a wolf - "oh no boq is wagoned we're doomed"

if Boq is town - "hell yeah boq mischop opportunity"

ergo there isn't really anything I think I can glean from it outside of maybe boq's reaction themselves telling me something about their alignment

but also probably not because boq is too good to really read that way

Am i being ego stroked right now tbh

[Alison]

I retract my scumread on Creature and am voting with Creature.

Creature is voting Jack because he wants to vote with me which is kinda funny.

[Boquise]

Sorta caught up
Ignoring the Alison vs Mac debate because i have irl stuff to do

I think aro getting into the hypocrisy debate earlier is rand town, because i think scum would just let that battle happen regardless of Alison's and Mac's alignment

I think porsha's shade on me is kinda bad, compared to Lily's
Tho i am more into voting Nook or Jack rn
Neon still deserves a vote

[Boquise]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine