King of the Hill Mafia

[MacDougall]

The top wagons being Boquise and Creature are stupid.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

I retract my scumread on Creature and am voting with Creature.

Creature is voting Jack because he wants to vote with me which is kinda funny.

I think it is virtually guaranteed there is one in Jack/Porscha, if not both, and if so then Lilypetal and Creature need to be put under a microscope (Lilypetal especially for that huge reversal on her Porscha read). I will probably just be voting on one of those two and currently I think it's slightly more likely to be Porscha because of her reaction to pressure.

@Jackofhearts2005 Justify voting Boquise over Porscha.

"For bad reasons" is not an acceptable answer.

I will be back like an hour before EOD or slightly less and I will read it then. I have to go for now because I have school.

I am back. I see Porscha and Jack have outed even further.

The more Creature baselessly calls votes shrug yeets and implies that they are essentially =rand when people have dropped entire cases on them and called them outed etc. the more I think he is partners with Porscha and was caught with his pants down.

[Alison]

In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

can you explain why?

You voted me for no reason, you cleared Porscha for no reason. You cleared Neon for... some reason, but you still cleared her, which means you would be a natural fit for both Porscha and Neon teams. Your EOD vote was extremely bad from a game theory point of view and would make the most sense if you genuinely wasn't sure who would go over, didn't particularly care, and just wanted to avoid being on a town wagon at EOD.

You have repped a strong arogame scumread. Why?

i dont rly remember why i voted you at the time but I just generally thought how you were positioning yourself in the game and how the sentiment was "omg we cant lunch the good players" made you a solid powerwolf candidate. I changed my vote very soon after because I didn't rly trust in the read though.

porscha i just didn't feel comfy on cuz AtE really effects me badly and I read it more as towny frustration so I didn't want to vote her.

Neon I kinda SR'd for how she was playing but her explanation made sense to me and afterwards I was definitely noticing v!neon pings.

The latter two explanations you should be able to find in my ISO. This is not fabricated.

If you think it's fake that's whatever but the reasons are there.

I think why I changed my vote makes sense to me tbh I'm an emotional player so I don't always do the correct play. It didn't change anything and the alternative was me burying you so you should thank me tbh

You have seen me say to give strong players D1 passes in my town games so I don't buy that as a reason for scumreading me.

Your Porscha read is based on ATE which is the absolute easiest excuse to give for reading someone. If you know you are badly affected by ATE then you should take it less into account let alone make it the basis of your read.

I don't care if "you're an emotional player", that doesn't excuse you from making decisions that are objectively anti-town. If you can't vote me because it would tie the votes then just sit on falcon? If you unvote falcon he still gets exed (which is exactly what happened) so it can't be that "oh no falcon is townie"... the singular effect of you deciding to unvote falcon is that you look slightly better for not being on the falcon wagon. Nothing else about the EOD was changed.

[Lilypetal]

idk what lucy is talking abt lmao the wagons weren't tied because of me

[Creature]

Also saying I killed Jack because I spewed him town is lol. If I was wolf I would view Jack as a strong mislynch contender and I refuse to nightkill strong mislynch contenders unless I really really fear Jack.

[Lilypetal]

yeah sorry alison ur just not someone who would understand me if ur town

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

Hmm...I was thinking this after EoD but nobody seemed to be SRing him so I dropped it

I had this 12h into d1
again after falcon's death
but I have a small difference check on Alison/nook

Why

[MacDougall]

The top wagons being Boquise and Creature are stupid.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

I retract my scumread on Creature and am voting with Creature.

Creature is voting Jack because he wants to vote with me which is kinda funny.

I think it is virtually guaranteed there is one in Jack/Porscha, if not both, and if so then Lilypetal and Creature need to be put under a microscope (Lilypetal especially for that huge reversal on her Porscha read). I will probably just be voting on one of those two and currently I think it's slightly more likely to be Porscha because of her reaction to pressure.

@Jackofhearts2005 Justify voting Boquise over Porscha.

"For bad reasons" is not an acceptable answer.

I will be back like an hour before EOD or slightly less and I will read it then. I have to go for now because I have school.

I am back. I see Porscha and Jack have outed even further.

The more Creature baselessly calls votes shrug yeets and implies that they are essentially =rand when people have dropped entire cases on them and called them outed etc. the more I think he is partners with Porscha and was caught with his pants down.

Like...

I'm sorry but...

There are 500 red flags pointing at Alison's head. And Creature is just out here burying himself alongside her to me.

Seriously if you read Alison's day 1 play and then actually read the logic she's used to defend herself from me she is just outed mafia.

I also didn't want to mention this but she said she was leaving for a cpl hours during end of day to go to class and just sat on Discord chatting with people. She only stopped posting for tactical reasons imo.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

idk what lucy is talking abt lmao the wagons weren't tied because of me

This is true. Technically my vote tied them

There's a but in here though

But my vote only tied them because Nook switched.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

My vote would've put Alison at +1 if Nook hadn't switched

[Alison]

yeah sorry alison ur just not someone who would understand me if ur town

Then I'm just going to leave you as hard POE in my legacy because the way you make decisions is a liability even if you are town and I do not trust you in endgame at all.

[MacDougall]

Also saying I killed Jack because I spewed him town is lol. If I was wolf I would view Jack as a strong mislynch contender and I refuse to nightkill strong mislynch contenders unless I really really fear Jack.

Absolute nonsense you know how hard Jack is to miselim more than anybody, and he wasn't fucking around in this game. Utter nonsense that you'd view him as a viable miselim.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I think... anyways

[MacDougall]

Alison probably just trying to spew lilypetal town right now.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

idk what lucy is talking abt lmao the wagons weren't tied because of me

This is true. Technically my vote tied them

There's a but in here though

But my vote only tied them because Nook switched.

??

They were 7/6 falcon/alison when I switched, afaict your switch just maintained that 7/6 split

[Creature]

What are your all thoughts on Neon moving from falcon45ca to Alison (which would tie the wagons from 8-6 to 7-7 resulting in a nolynch)? What about Lilypetal moving from the top wagon (also possibly risking a nolynch) to a vanity wagon (Porscha) that would never go through?

[Lilypetal]

yeah sorry alison ur just not someone who would understand me if ur town

Then I'm just going to leave you as hard POE in my legacy because the way you make decisions is a liability even if you are town and I do not trust you in endgame at all.

okie

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

The morale of eod is dont wait until there's one minute left to vote the person you want to kill lol

[staypositivefriend]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

[MacDougall]

Alison yesterday you said "Boquise and Creature being the top wagons are stupid". What has Boquise done since then that's caused you to be okay with Seanzie and Creature now voting him?

[Creature]

My vote would've put Alison at +1 if Nook hadn't switched

Weren't the wagons 8-6 before Lilypetal switched to a vanity wagon? Your vote was going to tie it at 7-7 unless you saw Lilypetal's switch to Porscha. Did you see it before voting Alison?

[MacDougall]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

yeah sorry alison ur just not someone who would understand me if ur town

Then I'm just going to leave you as hard POE in my legacy because the way you make decisions is a liability even if you are town and I do not trust you in endgame at all.

Your really REALLY gonna hate me than

[staypositivefriend]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

[Alison]

I also didn't want to mention this but she said she was leaving for a cpl hours during end of day to go to class and just sat on Discord chatting with people. She only stopped posting for tactical reasons imo.

This is the stupidest angleshoot attempt of all time because when I am in class I can't get into huge conversations or open multiple tabs to quote from people's ISO. Discord chat is brief and can be done when I am trying to pay attention to what the professor is saying at the same time, while casing people is not. I also have nothing to gain from dipping at that moment because I wasn't in contention for the wagons then. Stop bringing up terrible reasons (that are probably also illegal) to fuel your confbias.

[MacDougall]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

if, mac was town, I would understand why what i posted is a bad read and would never make... what?

this post is pure nonsense

[MacDougall]

SPF, Creature, Alison

I'm out... good luck town.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

What are your all thoughts on Neon moving from falcon45ca to Alison (which would tie the wagons from 8-6 to 7-7 resulting in a nolynch)? What about Lilypetal moving from the top wagon (also possibly risking a nolynch) to a vanity wagon (Porscha) that would never go through?

This is a misrepresentation of what my switch was.

My switch at the time I was making it the wagons were +1 falcon with me on falcon

I believed falcon made himself clear town so I switched to make Alison +1 but a whole bunch of other fuckery happened around than too

[staypositivefriend]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

if, mac was town, I would understand why what i posted is a bad read and would never make... what?

this post is pure nonsense

i am talking about you using alison's activity on discord as a legitimate reason for why she is mafia. that is bizarre and it is not the type of read that you would make as town under normal circumstances

i will not discuss it further to avoid any potential issues with OGI, it just really rubbed me the wrong way

[Creature]

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Alright I feel like Mac is playing dumb now so we all go like "lol mac is tunneled town" and let him slip away.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

My vote would've put Alison at +1 if Nook hadn't switched

Weren't the wagons 8-6 before Lilypetal switched to a vanity wagon? Your vote was going to tie it at 7-7 unless you saw Lilypetal's switch to Porscha. Did you see it before voting Alison?

No

[MacDougall]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

if, mac was town, I would understand why what i posted is a bad read and would never make... what?

this post is pure nonsense

i am talking about you using alison's activity on discord as a legitimate reason for why she is mafia. that is bizarre and it is not the type of read that you would make as town under normal circumstances

i will not discuss it further to avoid any potential issues with OGI, it just really rubbed me the wrong way

lmao you know me way better than to say silly emotional shit like this

[Alison]

Alison probably just trying to spew lilypetal town right now.

Yes Mac my scumbuddy randomly unvoted my counterwagon for no reason when she was being directly instructed by another player to stay on it.

[MacDougall]

Alison probably just trying to spew lilypetal town right now.

Yes Mac my scumbuddy randomly unvoted my counterwagon for no reason when she was being directly instructed by another player to stay on it.

ah yes a wifom defense, how very alison

[staypositivefriend]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

if, mac was town, I would understand why what i posted is a bad read and would never make... what?

this post is pure nonsense

i am talking about you using alison's activity on discord as a legitimate reason for why she is mafia. that is bizarre and it is not the type of read that you would make as town under normal circumstances

i will not discuss it further to avoid any potential issues with OGI, it just really rubbed me the wrong way

lmao you know me way better than to say silly emotional shit like this

it's not even emotional, i just dont think that it's the type of read that you would make if you weren't already confirmation biased. it is not how you typically play mafia, and it seems quite uncharacteristic of how you tend to think about mafia. again though, i'm going to drop it after this post

[robyn]

@MacDougall - can you give me a rough estimate of how confident you are that nanook is town? i find it difficult to get alignment indicative information out of pretty much anything he has posted so far and most of his posts have gone straight through me, which is somewhat unusual because im usually able to figure out when he's town pretty quickly. are you confident there?

I have a gut read on scum nook btw

what other reads do u have rn?

I was expecting you to die and for Mac to unsuccessfully push Alison
since this is not happening my gamestate is off
I know a few things that I have to think more about
Lily should still be in POE @Creature I don't see how she doesn't listen to me in that scenario, and if I'm wrong she just blames me

i mean, what incentive does lily have to NOT listen to you in a world where she's a wolf and you're town? if she's mafia then she has the perfect excuse to park her vote on falcon and not look responsible for him dying, since you directly told her to. why would she bother making a last second vanity vote? what does she gain from doing that?

it was unstrategic in a way that probably means she's playing from an uninformed perspective, and i actually think lily is becoming one of my most confident townreads in general

would've tied the Lynch, lily would've been policy lynched but that's okay because she's been suspected and we'd be forced to spend 3 lynches going lily/falcon/Alison where there's 1 wolf for 4 NK's
I hard disagree with a lily TR, she'd sheep me in every town scenario unless she had someone else telling her what to do (saying falcon was obv town at EOD imo was tmo (lily's actual messages contradict this but I don't care))
I do think lily/Alison have a difference check if and only if Alison flips scum
but more to the point I believe that town lily always follows me there

but lily choosing to park on a vanity wagon didn't tie the chop, right? or if it did tie the chop, it was mitigated so quickly that there was no realistic possibility that lily thought that switching off was going to force a tie between the wagon wagons

i don't really agree that lily would always follow you if she was town bcuz i have no idea what your dynamic is like and i care more about whether lily's play had strategic intent, which as far as i can tell, it did not

I concede that it did not have obvious strategic intent tbh
if nook stayed on Alison and lily didn't unvote it would've been a tie

[Alison]

Meh Mac is probably town because of the OGI read, I think if he is mafia he doesn't feel the need to make up stuff like that knowing it was a real dip. He is just confbiased.

[Alison]

It probably is actually just Porscha Creature X where X is Rondo or Lily.

[robyn]

idk what lucy is talking abt lmao the wagons weren't tied because of me

This is true. Technically my vote tied them

There's a but in here though

But my vote only tied them because Nook switched.

THIS

[MacDougall]

mac just made a point against alison that is so absurd that it is difficult for me to not see him as incorrectly hard-tunneled and less trustworthy by default. i won't discuss it further but yikes lol

this is the dumbest post in the history of mafia if you are town and as a result i am going to just tunnel you now

nah if youre town then you would understand why what you posted is a bad read and why you would never make it about a player that you weren't already confirmation biased on being mafia

if, mac was town, I would understand why what i posted is a bad read and would never make... what?

this post is pure nonsense

i am talking about you using alison's activity on discord as a legitimate reason for why she is mafia. that is bizarre and it is not the type of read that you would make as town under normal circumstances

i will not discuss it further to avoid any potential issues with OGI, it just really rubbed me the wrong way

lmao you know me way better than to say silly emotional shit like this

it's not even emotional, i just dont think that it's the type of read that you would make if you weren't already confirmation biased. it is not how you typically play mafia, and it seems quite uncharacteristic of how you tend to think about mafia. again though, i'm going to drop it after this post

you haven't even addressed the absolute dump i took on her, and probably haven't even read her iso

she pushed jack, spewed him town
she shielded creature (and boq) when they were top wagons but doesn't care that boq is now voted by creature (i would have thought there'd be a townread here or something)
creature voted on both her counterwagons
she had a lock wolf read on porscha on day 1 and was in a split with her and is now trying to pretend like she'd do anything other than tunnel her to death
she's (and creature) are trying to push the notion im a wolf for obviously bad reason
I've stated arguments, pulled quotes
she tried to flashwagon someone
she was the down counterwagon in a split
if you're gonna ignore all of it because i made an angleshoot read then... kindly, you are not playing the game well or are a wolf

how many red flags does someone have to have before you just vote them and move on?

it shouldn't be this hard to kill someone who survived a day 1 split with a town by 1 vote

[Creature]

How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

tbh Alison is the only one I townread inside that group and I'm only getting doubts because Mac seems to say otherwise and "muh resolve D1 wagons".

MacDougall I almost called him tunneled town but I feel like I've done the same in Game of Champions 2021 where he was also not making any sense and he ended up being wolf just stirring shit at the thread.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

idk what lucy is talking abt lmao the wagons weren't tied because of me

This is true. Technically my vote tied them

There's a but in here though

But my vote only tied them because Nook switched.

THIS

So I was right? Cause everyone else is acting like I'm crazy and I feel like I'm being gaslit lol

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

Seventy eleventy

[MacDougall]

POE

Alison
Creature
Lilypetal
Seanzie

I'm taking a very long break from this game. I didn't want to get drawn into playing this way and didn't even want to fucken play it in the first place.

[Creature]

It probably is actually just Porscha Creature X where X is Rondo or Lily.

Porscha + Lilypetal + me prob always nightkills within you/Mac/SPF. We don't make fancy pants plays.

[MacDougall]

How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

tbh Alison is the only one I townread inside that group and I'm only getting doubts because Mac seems to say otherwise and "muh resolve D1 wagons".

MacDougall I almost called him tunneled town but I feel like I've done the same in Game of Champions 2021 where he was also not making any sense and he ended up being wolf just stirring shit at the thread.

How am I not making sense? Tell me where I made no sense?

[staypositivefriend]

i'm mildly concerned that i cleared creature too easily, and i think it could be a contributing factor for why i'm still alive. creature has made a lot of posts that project paranoia/pessimism about the gamestate, which i think is a distinctly towny trait for him, but i think his play has been lacking in terms of his overall solving

most of the posts that he makes are one-liner, quippy observations that are disconnected from each other and aren't helping to inform his broader worldview, and i think this specific mindset of making a lot of towny-sounding posts in the moment without them building up to something bigger is a lot closer to how he approaches games as a wolf than as town

i also take quite a lot of issue with many of his posts both today and toward the EOD yesterday, i'm put off by him voting boq because "boq would make a gamer kill", when creature would certainly realize that boq would have zero incentive to kill jack if he thought about it for 10 seconds. i'm put off by how quickly creature changed his view on falcon being town once falcon became a viable wagon, and his reasoning for doing so felt overly vague and generalized. in general, i am struggling to see a coherent worldview forming from creature's posts, and i consider that to be a major red flag for him

i'm not really sold on him being mafia, just expressing this thought because it's starting to seem a bit more likely to me

Ftr I always kill in you/Alison/Mac if I'm wolf, maybe Boq. I pretty much commanded the N1 kills in the Midnight Mash and they all were on players I deemed strong (catbae/Gira, julia and a failed kill attempt on Scyther/Mac).

You should probably look for who would make such a nightkill. It is probably someone whk respects Jack and it's possible it could mean the existence of a wolf within the core of you/Alison/Mac/maybe Boq.

I feel like I've spent a lot of my time today trying to figure out this nightkill.

Mac seems to be blatantly misrepresenting Alison's posts. It's almost like he knows he's straight making things up. Prob my biggest drawback is that I feel like Jack is fairly good at reading Mac and he ended townreading him.

I still think Alison is town and I feel like she's only being resolved for yesterday's wagons.

I suspected you last night at some point though. Your EOD seemed all over the place. I'm debating giving you a tad more time to find some wolf so I can clear you if you're town.

tbh even in a world where im wrong and alison is mafia, i have a bit of trouble reading alison/creature as W/W because of how brazenly creature is defending alison. the way he talks about alison here reads more like a wolf TMI'ing her alignment than it does a wolf talking about another partner

[staypositivefriend]

i also dont think that creature is much of a powerwolf from my experience - i remember that he hard bussed me when i was wolfing with him in a way that was pretty out of left field, and he made a point to create a lot of distance from his partners. he's treating alison pretty much the opposite in this game

[robyn]

can you people post reads lists
I want a towncore

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

POE

Alison
Creature
Lilypetal
Seanzie

I'm taking a very long break from this game. I didn't want to get drawn into playing this way and didn't even want to fucken play it in the first place.

[Creature]

How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

tbh Alison is the only one I townread inside that group and I'm only getting doubts because Mac seems to say otherwise and "muh resolve D1 wagons".

MacDougall I almost called him tunneled town but I feel like I've done the same in Game of Champions 2021 where he was also not making any sense and he ended up being wolf just stirring shit at the thread.

How am I not making sense? Tell me where I made no sense?

You said Alison should always be pushing me because she believes Porscha is a wolf and that I am partnered with Porscha therefore I should be lynched over Porscha.