Lawyers, Guns and Money- [TOWN WINS!]

[Golden]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Too much information

There’s also town-based sources for that in this game, though. For all I know you cop checked soneji (don’t confirm or deny that). But TMI is often seen as wolfy, because wolves can have difficulty faking lack of knowledge.

[Golden]

Hey remember when I said don't consolidate on a wagon it's just gonna kill a town we need two competing wagons and than for the 2nd day in a ris we had a run away wagon kill a town.

Yeah i remember when I said that.

I remember when you said we need two competing wagons for info. Did you actually say the bit about ‘it’ll kill town’?

I don’t like statisically likely whataboutism. A wolf can say ‘you’ll kill town’ and then try and get credit for that the next day.

I am 99.8% sure I said it was gonna kill a town yes

Fair enough. I think it killed town because soneji id town not because we built consensus.

[Golden]

Kate i kinda want to get all tinfoiling out of the way. What are the chances we are wrong about svs?

[Scotty]

What do you think of this list?

Falcon
Splints
Neon
Mata
Rox
Scotty
Soneji

I think that list is everyone who could be wolf unless I’ve been properly pocketed.

Ok so if we give some credence to Rox showing up and posting, we temporarily remove rox and splints. I'm not crazy about voting Neon. And I know Mata has been very sick so I'm not comfortable going there today.

That leaves:

Scotty
Soneji and
Falcon.

What do you think of that list?

lol

Well here’s where things went wrong:
Why did you remove Roxy and splints from contention just for showing up?

I felt rox was playing her civ game. She's angrier or "rougher" when she's mafia and there was enough ammo listed in her thread to make her mad. Based on that, I trusted her read of splints, who is her BFF.

Interesting. If this isn’t angry, I fear for what she sounds like agitated,

What does that anger/roughness equate to in practical terms of gameplay? More brash with her suspicion?

[Dennis]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Too much information

There’s also town-based sources for that in this game, though. For all I know you cop checked soneji (don’t confirm or deny that). But TMI is often seen as wolfy, because wolves can have difficulty faking lack of knowledge.

So TMI is like, leaking info other people aren't supposed yo know you have? Because I totally get how people see that. The only argument I have is that Soneji seemed good, Wild Dennis took over and went defensive mode, and that's what came out. Yes I was strong with my defense, I didn't want Soneji gone.

[Scotty]

The tandem of Dennis and falcon coming out swinging for splints’ head feels…off

There was absolutely no reaction against a splints elim yesterday when it was very on the cards for a while. I’m not feeling that as the right answer right now.

Falcon as the right answer I do feel. And I’d be very surprised if the soneji wagon is clean.

Falcon coming in to today voting splints because he smelled some potent smell of vanilla on her or whatever reason he has to vote her makes me feel like those 2 are not w/w. Leaning that way anyway, though voting for your partner at start of day for cred isn’t out of ordinary. Splints might not gain traction and he could just slip off if so.

I’m try it

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

[Kate]

Kate i kinda want to get all tinfoiling out of the way. What are the chances we are wrong about svs?

My little mind doesn't see anyway we are looking at bad svs. You agree with me don't you?

[Golden]

Kate i kinda want to get all tinfoiling out of the way. What are the chances we are wrong about svs?

My little mind doesn't see anyway we are looking at bad svs. You agree with me don't you?

Yes

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

D1:

Wilgz (6): marmot, golden, seanzie, Dennis, svs, Lucy

Seanzie (5): Kate, Wilgz, Neon, Sabi, Scotty

Splints (1): Bea

Golden (1): Falcon

Roxy (1): Roxy





D2:

Sabi (7): Sean, Kate, Scotty, Golden, Mata, Lucy, SVS

Lucy (3): Splints, Dennis, Soneji

Golden (1): Sabi

Seanzie (1): Neon

Someji (1): Falcon



Never been wagoned at EoD (8): Bea, Dennis, Falcon, Neon, Kate, Mata, SVS, Scotty

People on both Maj wagons (4): Golden, Sean, SVS, Lucy

People only on Wilgz (1): Dennis

People only on Sabi (3): Kate, Scotty, Mata

People never on the Maj wagon (4): Neon, Bea, Falcon, Roxy

I really like this post. What can we do with it? Neon I'm so glad you're here. Don't worry @S~V~S and @Golden I still fangirl you two topsies but neon has entered the chat...

To go further into what I personally think we can get out of this and what I'm looking at personally when I analyze the raw data

I think there's never more than 1 wolf that votes on both maj wagons so at most there's one in Golden, Sean, SVS, Lucy

I TR SVS and Lucy so I think at most one in Sean and Golden and would you look at that this last page solidified that for me lol. It's possible it's none though.

I think there's 1 on Wilgz at least but probably exactly one unless Sean is wolf. Which is one in golden, seanzie, Dennis, svs, Lucy. Which continues that same trend.

Regardless of Sean's alignment I think there's no more than one in Kate Myself and Scotty and probably exactly one in all scenarios.

I think there's a wolf in the 8 who have never has a vote at EoD which is just duh Level analysis but whatever at least one in Bea, Dennis, Falcon, Neon, Kate, Mata, SVS, Scotty


At most one in the group who have never made a stand Neon, Bea, Falcon, Roxy.


I think there's only ever one in Kate, Scotty, Mata

And i think Dennis might be the deep wolf and if Sean flips Red I'm going all in on Dennis.

Is that analysis enough for you Sean?

golden, seanzie, Dennis, svs, Lucy of these I think the most likely hit is Sean

Kate Myself and Scotty of these I think the most likely hit is Scotty

Bea, Dennis, Falcon, Neon, Kate, Mata, SVS, Scotty of these I think the most likely hit is Mata followed by Scotty

Neon, Bea, Falcon, Roxy of these I think the most likely hit is a toss up of Roxy/Falcon but honestly I think none

Kate, Scotty, Mata of these I think the most likely hit is Scotty

So logic should dictate that I choose to hit in Sean/ Scotty/Mata

Going back to this again I do note that Soneji didn't vote day 1 and was on Lucy day 2 so they should be added to Neon, Bea, Falcon, Roxy, Soneji

In this instance I think the most likely hit is Soneji and that they are far more likely than anyone else in this list so my PoE today is looking

Sean/ Scotty/Mata/Soneji.

I won't vote outside this.

Why was splints not even included in your data collection? Like, she was never in any of your cluster groups. Why is that?

For the same reason Soneji wasn't until it was pointed out to me.

People who didn't vote on one of the days didn't get moved into groups because I didn't see their name twice.

And i didn't notice.

So i will amend that

Well actually I won't amend it cause they are in the new thing already but that should've been included in the section of never been on maj wagon until d3

[Kate]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Too much information

There’s also town-based sources for that in this game, though. For all I know you cop checked soneji (don’t confirm or deny that). But TMI is often seen as wolfy, because wolves can have difficulty faking lack of knowledge.

So TMI is like, leaking info other people aren't supposed yo know you have? Because I totally get how people see that. The only argument I have is that Soneji seemed good, Wild Dennis took over and went defensive mode, and that's what came out. Yes I was strong with my defense, I didn't want Soneji gone.

Take yesterday for instance, presumably a bunch of civs guessed/analyzed that soneji was most likely bad. Suddenly, one player refuses to wagon and defends, and ultimately votes elsewhere. When soneji flipped civ, the assumption would or could be that said defender has TMI, or in other words, is bad and there KNOWS soneji is civ.

[Kate]

Kate i kinda want to get all tinfoiling out of the way. What are the chances we are wrong about svs?

My little mind doesn't see anyway we are looking at bad svs. You agree with me don't you?

Yes

Ok whew. That would have taken a lot of reanalysis. Lol

[Scotty]

Why am I being questioned for being against the Soneji vote and Golden isn't being questioned for being willing to kill anyone to save Seanzie?

Context is important. But point taken, I think both aren’t exactly town-positive moves. I’m more suspicious of off voters from the wagon too.


Because even if there are 1-2 voters ON Soneji, that means 1-2 were off the wagon…

[Kate]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

[Dennis]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

How about kicking Jack out and inviting Neon to be my sister? I'm still very much up for that idea.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Dennis opening today looks bad. And Lucy hit on some things eod that were bothering me about Dennis yesterday that I was mostly ignoring.

What about it? And I still don't understand what Lucy meant with the whole 'influence' thing. I don't think I've changed anybody's minds on anything if that what you mean, so feel free to keep pushing that.

I'm not good at words so let me try my best.

Your opening feels like a wolf trying to cover themself with the over hype doc praise followed by more cover for yourself because you immediately push suspicion onto looking only on the top wagon for scum a wagon you were firmly against.

That cover protects you the deep wolf and your team because the chances we hit correct in a 7 person pool are well 1 in 7 but if we focused off wagon that pool becomes 1 in 5 and it's almost certain all wolfs didn't stack on Soneji.

Oh and your firm anti Soneji position also reeks of TMI but also makes me think the other wagons that were close when Soneji started to take off also were town. I know I'm town and I was one of them.

I can't really argue with this but I'll try my darndest. I don't think my doc praise was necessarily 'overhype' but I think it's a little wild that doc saved someone twice in a row and wanted to express that.

I immediately pushed suspicion cuz this day feels pretty important, like this is our second or last chance to get a wolf, and I want to make the most of it by saying 'hey, these 6 people like almost definitely have a wolf' and others have said that point too. Do we not have more leads on the people in Soneji wagon than out?

I need someone to give me an explanation of TMI because my context clue skills are clearly not cutting it. It means too much information, I know that, but I don't understand the context it's meant to be used in. What do you mean 'close when Soneji started to take off'? Like wagons who has 2 votes?

It's not our last chance to get a wolf though

It's 10 v 3 I think

So on the worst case d5 is 8 v 3 d6 is 6 v 3 d7 is 4 v 3

At worst we have at least 4 days left.

Outside of that TMI basically means you have more info than a town should have. A wolf often slips tmi because a wolf obviously knows everyone's alignment where as a town doesn't.

I asked you to explain your vote on Falcon and you never really could give me a solid reason why other than your very high level of confidence that Soneji was town but you also never expressed any Soneji was town. Can you show me posts that made you think Soneji was most certainly town?

[Scotty]

i don’t have enough spoons for this game right now, brother broke his hand and grandma fell and hit her forehead on the floor. now my parents are being stupidly biased against me for stupid fucking events that are out of my control and my finals are next week and i’m just super stressed out, i’m super surprised i’m not having a panic attack right now, it’s actually strange that i’m thinking logically

its not you’re fault. Take it from me, a stranger, that stuff happens and you might be blamed for it. Just don’t absorb that, and know that it’s not the end of the world.

Take things one step at a time. Always one step, don’t stress out. Take a break from this game if need be to handle more important life stuff

You got this.

[Kate]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

How about kicking Jack out and inviting Neon to be my sister? I'm still very much up for that idea.

Can I have both?

[Dennis]

The logical assumption is that someone includes themselves among their towncore by default so it's unnecessary and potentially performative to list themselves, because either they know they're town from their rolecard, or they know they need to fake being town from their rolecard. One doesn't normally include themselves in readslist as they cannot make a read on their own alignment which is a known factor to them, and either they know they're town or need to fake it. The need for anti-town to fake being town is what subconsciously can cause them to want to project "I AM TOWN" at every opportunity, hence listing themselves in towncores/townreads lists. It is common enough for actual townies, especially from certain site cultures, to list themselves in such things so it's not a hard wolf tell, but it can be a soft tell when alongside other performative town projection examples.

Why would Soneji defend Neon with a after she got called out for adding herself in her towncore? Especially bringing into the equation of different site cultures doesn't make any sense if Soneji is wolf and Neon is town, when it seemed like (to me) that Golden was suspicious of Neon.

If you ask me a joke of a question, you're going to get a joke of an answer.

This is just shutting down conversations that were off topic.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

This is analysis and I like it.

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning. So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

I don't think a wolf would bring this up, because why explain your strategy to the entire thread?

I dunno, it's just all of their posts in general I agree with but these were a few examples. Maybe in the 3rd one I'm being convinced by them explaining I don't know what I'm doing still but other than that it's just everything. Now please answer my question.

@Neon I think this is what you wanted?

[Kate]

Dennis opening today looks bad. And Lucy hit on some things eod that were bothering me about Dennis yesterday that I was mostly ignoring.

What about it? And I still don't understand what Lucy meant with the whole 'influence' thing. I don't think I've changed anybody's minds on anything if that what you mean, so feel free to keep pushing that.

I'm not good at words so let me try my best.

Your opening feels like a wolf trying to cover themself with the over hype doc praise followed by more cover for yourself because you immediately push suspicion onto looking only on the top wagon for scum a wagon you were firmly against.

That cover protects you the deep wolf and your team because the chances we hit correct in a 7 person pool are well 1 in 7 but if we focused off wagon that pool becomes 1 in 5 and it's almost certain all wolfs didn't stack on Soneji.

Oh and your firm anti Soneji position also reeks of TMI but also makes me think the other wagons that were close when Soneji started to take off also were town. I know I'm town and I was one of them.

I can't really argue with this but I'll try my darndest. I don't think my doc praise was necessarily 'overhype' but I think it's a little wild that doc saved someone twice in a row and wanted to express that.

I immediately pushed suspicion cuz this day feels pretty important, like this is our second or last chance to get a wolf, and I want to make the most of it by saying 'hey, these 6 people like almost definitely have a wolf' and others have said that point too. Do we not have more leads on the people in Soneji wagon than out?

I need someone to give me an explanation of TMI because my context clue skills are clearly not cutting it. It means too much information, I know that, but I don't understand the context it's meant to be used in. What do you mean 'close when Soneji started to take off'? Like wagons who has 2 votes?

It's not our last chance to get a wolf though

It's 10 v 3 I think

So on the worst case d5 is 8 v 3 d6 is 6 v 3 d7 is 4 v 3

At worst we have at least 4 days left.

Outside of that TMI basically means you have more info than a town should have. A wolf often slips tmi because a wolf obviously knows everyone's alignment where as a town doesn't.

I asked you to explain your vote on Falcon and you never really could give me a solid reason why other than your very high level of confidence that Soneji was town but you also never expressed any Soneji was town. Can you show me posts that made you think Soneji was most certainly town?

But that's not considering the mafia's ability to candle votes.

[Dennis]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

How about kicking Jack out and inviting Neon to be my sister? I'm still very much up for that idea.

Can I have both?

No.

[Kate]

*cancel

[Scotty]

Why am I being questioned for being against the Soneji vote and Golden isn't being questioned for being willing to kill anyone to save Seanzie?

I’m gonna give you an answer that assumes you’re town.

Because it’s easy for a wolf to know a wagon is town and feel confident they shouldn’t get on it.

Your answers today relieve my anxiety somewhat but my very first thought when soneji flipped town was ‘oh no, is it Dennis?’

Really? His answers today made me go from hitting tennis balls to hitting golf balls with my tennis racket.

[Kate]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

How about kicking Jack out and inviting Neon to be my sister? I'm still very much up for that idea.

Can I have both?

No.

What if I keep jack and neon?

[Dennis]

I know there are a lot of things I need to go back and address but it's very late and I just can't sleep but I'm too tired for indepth thought.

How about kicking Jack out and inviting Neon to be my sister? I'm still very much up for that idea.

Can I have both?

No.

What if I keep jack and neon?

We both know you wouldn't do that, I'm the favorite.

[Dennis]

Why am I being questioned for being against the Soneji vote and Golden isn't being questioned for being willing to kill anyone to save Seanzie?

I’m gonna give you an answer that assumes you’re town.

Because it’s easy for a wolf to know a wagon is town and feel confident they shouldn’t get on it.

Your answers today relieve my anxiety somewhat but my very first thought when soneji flipped town was ‘oh no, is it Dennis?’

Really? His answers today made me go from hitting tennis balls to hitting golf balls with my tennis racket.

I was under the impression keeping people guessing was a good thing.

[Kate]

As Golden would say, I will eat my hat if Dennis is deepwolfing.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Hey remember when I said don't consolidate on a wagon it's just gonna kill a town we need two competing wagons and than for the 2nd day in a ris we had a run away wagon kill a town.

Yeah i remember when I said that.

I remember when you said we need two competing wagons for info. Did you actually say the bit about ‘it’ll kill town’?

I don’t like statisically likely whataboutism. A wolf can say ‘you’ll kill town’ and then try and get credit for that the next day.

I am 99.8% sure I said it was gonna kill a town yes

Fair enough. I think it killed town because soneji id town not because we built consensus.

I think it killed a town because it's excessively easy to manipulate town into a consensus on a town and consensus wagons are anti town.

[Dennis]

Why am I being questioned for being against the Soneji vote and Golden isn't being questioned for being willing to kill anyone to save Seanzie?

I’m gonna give you an answer that assumes you’re town.

Because it’s easy for a wolf to know a wagon is town and feel confident they shouldn’t get on it.

Your answers today relieve my anxiety somewhat but my very first thought when soneji flipped town was ‘oh no, is it Dennis?’

Really? His answers today made me go from hitting tennis balls to hitting golf balls with my tennis racket.

I was under the impression keeping people guessing was a good thing.

am under the impression*. I still believe that.

[Scotty]

People don’t know how quiet our threads used to be. It was much easier for low posters like Roxy and mata to keep up and contribute even without masses of time.

I never felt they were quiet bc we always had SVS and you plus LC, Map, LT, Enrique, too many to list. Our games were 20, 30 40 people. Threads were crazy. My Survivor game had 4 threads that were all busy.

Rabbits lost game had 50 people! All kinds of different threads and location based chats. That was a lot of fun and very innovative, like your Survivor game. All those trivia challenges, they were hard.

@Roxy Can I see a link to your survivor game?? I had no idea anyone had done one before I did it like 6 years ago.

I always hoped OptOutside would return one day

Yes…I had hoped that as well. She took her bag and bounced lol. I just don’t think forum mafia is for her. She can sure kick my ass in hidden traitor games in RL tho.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

The logical assumption is that someone includes themselves among their towncore by default so it's unnecessary and potentially performative to list themselves, because either they know they're town from their rolecard, or they know they need to fake being town from their rolecard. One doesn't normally include themselves in readslist as they cannot make a read on their own alignment which is a known factor to them, and either they know they're town or need to fake it. The need for anti-town to fake being town is what subconsciously can cause them to want to project "I AM TOWN" at every opportunity, hence listing themselves in towncores/townreads lists. It is common enough for actual townies, especially from certain site cultures, to list themselves in such things so it's not a hard wolf tell, but it can be a soft tell when alongside other performative town projection examples.

Why would Soneji defend Neon with a after she got called out for adding herself in her towncore? Especially bringing into the equation of different site cultures doesn't make any sense if Soneji is wolf and Neon is town, when it seemed like (to me) that Golden was suspicious of Neon.

If you ask me a joke of a question, you're going to get a joke of an answer.

This is just shutting down conversations that were off topic.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

This is analysis and I like it.

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning. So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

I don't think a wolf would bring this up, because why explain your strategy to the entire thread?

I dunno, it's just all of their posts in general I agree with but these were a few examples. Maybe in the 3rd one I'm being convinced by them explaining I don't know what I'm doing still but other than that it's just everything. Now please answer my question.

@Neon I think this is what you wanted?

Yes thanks I'll look at it ^^

[Scotty]

I think what I've learned is that I desperately need to take a chill pill. We're in a good spot, we still have time to catch wolves. Yes? Because now I see why my start feels bad too like Neon said.

If anything I get the feeling you’re very self aware of how you appear,

And once again, I can’t tell if that is just a first time mafia roll trying his damndest to appear town or a first time townie super self conscious about his play to improve upon and not wanting to die because of it.

All I’m saying is you’re playing well regardless of alignment, and keep doing your thing.

[Scotty]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Sure.

Scenario; you are wolf. You know Soneji is town, so you preemptively state in thread that you really feel Soneji is a bad choice for lynch.

That is Too Much Information.

It’s a buzzword that can be thrown around too to describe situations like that, when in reality you could jus be a town expressing your opinion. But to a wolf, it’s not an opinion.

[Scotty]

Hey remember when I said don't consolidate on a wagon it's just gonna kill a town we need two competing wagons and than for the 2nd day in a ris we had a run away wagon kill a town.

Yeah i remember when I said that.

I remember when you said we need two competing wagons for info. Did you actually say the bit about ‘it’ll kill town’?

I don’t like statisically likely whataboutism. A wolf can say ‘you’ll kill town’ and then try and get credit for that the next day.

I am 99.8% sure I said it was gonna kill a town yes

You did, I just backread that an hour ago

[Golden]

Kate i kinda want to get all tinfoiling out of the way. What are the chances we are wrong about svs?

My little mind doesn't see anyway we are looking at bad svs. You agree with me don't you?

Yes

Ok whew. That would have taken a lot of reanalysis. Lol

I want to really push past tinfoiling today. I wasn’t even tinfoiling svs I just wanted to make sure I shouldn’t be.

[Golden]

People don’t know how quiet our threads used to be. It was much easier for low posters like Roxy and mata to keep up and contribute even without masses of time.

I never felt they were quiet bc we always had SVS and you plus LC, Map, LT, Enrique, too many to list. Our games were 20, 30 40 people. Threads were crazy. My Survivor game had 4 threads that were all busy.

Rabbits lost game had 50 people! All kinds of different threads and location based chats. That was a lot of fun and very innovative, like your Survivor game. All those trivia challenges, they were hard.

@Roxy Can I see a link to your survivor game?? I had no idea anyone had done one before I did it like 6 years ago.

I always hoped OptOutside would return one day

Yes…I had hoped that as well. She took her bag and bounced lol. I just don’t think forum mafia is for her. She can sure kick my ass in hidden traitor games in RL tho.

maybe she can come play the mole when Daisy and I do it

[Dennis]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Sure.

Scenario; you are wolf. You know Soneji is town, so you preemptively state in thread that you really feel Soneji is a bad choice for lynch.

That is Too Much Information.

It’s a buzzword that can be thrown around too to describe situations like that, when in reality you could jus be a town expressing your opinion. But to a wolf, it’s not an opinion.

Well now like 4 people have explained it to me but I appreciate it nonetheless. But wouldn't the wolves want to blend in with the crowd naturally? Taking a stand like I did against like half of the game practically puts a spotlight on them. Is TMI like a newbie thing then (generally) and by coincidence is why I'm being accused of it?

[Scotty]

Dennis opening today looks bad. And Lucy hit on some things eod that were bothering me about Dennis yesterday that I was mostly ignoring.

What about it? And I still don't understand what Lucy meant with the whole 'influence' thing. I don't think I've changed anybody's minds on anything if that what you mean, so feel free to keep pushing that.

I'm not good at words so let me try my best.

Your opening feels like a wolf trying to cover themself with the over hype doc praise followed by more cover for yourself because you immediately push suspicion onto looking only on the top wagon for scum a wagon you were firmly against.

That cover protects you the deep wolf and your team because the chances we hit correct in a 7 person pool are well 1 in 7 but if we focused off wagon that pool becomes 1 in 5 and it's almost certain all wolfs didn't stack on Soneji.

Oh and your firm anti Soneji position also reeks of TMI but also makes me think the other wagons that were close when Soneji started to take off also were town. I know I'm town and I was one of them.

I can't really argue with this but I'll try my darndest. I don't think my doc praise was necessarily 'overhype' but I think it's a little wild that doc saved someone twice in a row and wanted to express that.

I immediately pushed suspicion cuz this day feels pretty important, like this is our second or last chance to get a wolf, and I want to make the most of it by saying 'hey, these 6 people like almost definitely have a wolf' and others have said that point too. Do we not have more leads on the people in Soneji wagon than out?

I need someone to give me an explanation of TMI because my context clue skills are clearly not cutting it. It means too much information, I know that, but I don't understand the context it's meant to be used in. What do you mean 'close when Soneji started to take off'? Like wagons who has 2 votes?

It's not our last chance to get a wolf though

It's 10 v 3 I think

So on the worst case d5 is 8 v 3 d6 is 6 v 3 d7 is 4 v 3

At worst we have at least 4 days left.

Outside of that TMI basically means you have more info than a town should have. A wolf often slips tmi because a wolf obviously knows everyone's alignment where as a town doesn't.

I asked you to explain your vote on Falcon and you never really could give me a solid reason why other than your very high level of confidence that Soneji was town but you also never expressed any Soneji was town. Can you show me posts that made you think Soneji was most certainly town?

I should point out that worst case with both deleters in play could actually be a loss in N6 if we don’t catch any wolves before then.
Which gives us 3 days to catch at least 1 wolf.

Just gotta assume until we actually catch a wolf:
D5 is 6v3, d6 is limlo at 4v3

[Scotty]

As Golden would say, I will eat my hat if Dennis is deepwolfing.

Y’all flirtin with potential ER bills and I’m not here for it

Be sweet to yo sweet selves

[Golden]

As Golden would say, I will eat my hat if Dennis is deepwolfing.

I only promised to bite it.

But I agree. Dennis posting today feels obvitown.

[Scotty]

People don’t know how quiet our threads used to be. It was much easier for low posters like Roxy and mata to keep up and contribute even without masses of time.

I never felt they were quiet bc we always had SVS and you plus LC, Map, LT, Enrique, too many to list. Our games were 20, 30 40 people. Threads were crazy. My Survivor game had 4 threads that were all busy.

Rabbits lost game had 50 people! All kinds of different threads and location based chats. That was a lot of fun and very innovative, like your Survivor game. All those trivia challenges, they were hard.

@Roxy Can I see a link to your survivor game?? I had no idea anyone had done one before I did it like 6 years ago.

I always hoped OptOutside would return one day

Yes…I had hoped that as well. She took her bag and bounced lol. I just don’t think forum mafia is for her. She can sure kick my ass in hidden traitor games in RL tho.

maybe she can come play the mole when Daisy and I do it

lol I tried to get her to watch The Mole on…Netflix I think? Supposed to be a remake of the original awesome show. Nah. It was awful and filled with wannabe actors and terrible acting.

Anyway, I think the issue is deeper- I just don’t think playing games online is for her.

[Dennis]

I think just about everyone currently in thread is in my towncore now

[Scotty]

Someone please explain TMI I'm begging. I checked that link someone gave me a few days back and it's not on there.

Sure.

Scenario; you are wolf. You know Soneji is town, so you preemptively state in thread that you really feel Soneji is a bad choice for lynch.

That is Too Much Information.

It’s a buzzword that can be thrown around too to describe situations like that, when in reality you could jus be a town expressing your opinion. But to a wolf, it’s not an opinion.

Well now like 4 people have explained it to me but I appreciate it nonetheless. But wouldn't the wolves want to blend in with the crowd naturally? Taking a stand like I did against like half of the game practically puts a spotlight on them. Is TMI like a newbie thing then (generally) and by coincidence is why I'm being accused of it?

Nah, TMI can happen to any wolf. Some are perhaps more skilled at concealing it. It goes hand in hand with perspective slip too. But we start going into mafia game theory which is way over my head.

TMI is something people see in a situation that may or may not be a thing. But it MAY be a thing, and that’s important.

Also I’m probably not the one to be a self imposed expert on the matter. Some of the new players I see are in some other quantum universe than me with their jumpy connections and logical aptitudes

[Golden]

Dennis opening today looks bad. And Lucy hit on some things eod that were bothering me about Dennis yesterday that I was mostly ignoring.

What about it? And I still don't understand what Lucy meant with the whole 'influence' thing. I don't think I've changed anybody's minds on anything if that what you mean, so feel free to keep pushing that.

I'm not good at words so let me try my best.

Your opening feels like a wolf trying to cover themself with the over hype doc praise followed by more cover for yourself because you immediately push suspicion onto looking only on the top wagon for scum a wagon you were firmly against.

That cover protects you the deep wolf and your team because the chances we hit correct in a 7 person pool are well 1 in 7 but if we focused off wagon that pool becomes 1 in 5 and it's almost certain all wolfs didn't stack on Soneji.

Oh and your firm anti Soneji position also reeks of TMI but also makes me think the other wagons that were close when Soneji started to take off also were town. I know I'm town and I was one of them.

I can't really argue with this but I'll try my darndest. I don't think my doc praise was necessarily 'overhype' but I think it's a little wild that doc saved someone twice in a row and wanted to express that.

I immediately pushed suspicion cuz this day feels pretty important, like this is our second or last chance to get a wolf, and I want to make the most of it by saying 'hey, these 6 people like almost definitely have a wolf' and others have said that point too. Do we not have more leads on the people in Soneji wagon than out?

I need someone to give me an explanation of TMI because my context clue skills are clearly not cutting it. It means too much information, I know that, but I don't understand the context it's meant to be used in. What do you mean 'close when Soneji started to take off'? Like wagons who has 2 votes?

It's not our last chance to get a wolf though

It's 10 v 3 I think

So on the worst case d5 is 8 v 3 d6 is 6 v 3 d7 is 4 v 3

At worst we have at least 4 days left.

Outside of that TMI basically means you have more info than a town should have. A wolf often slips tmi because a wolf obviously knows everyone's alignment where as a town doesn't.

I asked you to explain your vote on Falcon and you never really could give me a solid reason why other than your very high level of confidence that Soneji was town but you also never expressed any Soneji was town. Can you show me posts that made you think Soneji was most certainly town?

I should point out that worst case with both deleters in play could actually be a loss in N6 if we don’t catch any wolves before then.
Which gives us 3 days to catch at least 1 wolf.

Just gotta assume until we actually catch a wolf:
D5 is 6v3, d6 is limlo at 4v3

Yeah this is the correct math.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

The logical assumption is that someone includes themselves among their towncore by default so it's unnecessary and potentially performative to list themselves, because either they know they're town from their rolecard, or they know they need to fake being town from their rolecard. One doesn't normally include themselves in readslist as they cannot make a read on their own alignment which is a known factor to them, and either they know they're town or need to fake it. The need for anti-town to fake being town is what subconsciously can cause them to want to project "I AM TOWN" at every opportunity, hence listing themselves in towncores/townreads lists. It is common enough for actual townies, especially from certain site cultures, to list themselves in such things so it's not a hard wolf tell, but it can be a soft tell when alongside other performative town projection examples.

Why would Soneji defend Neon with a after she got called out for adding herself in her towncore? Especially bringing into the equation of different site cultures doesn't make any sense if Soneji is wolf and Neon is town, when it seemed like (to me) that Golden was suspicious of Neon.

If you ask me a joke of a question, you're going to get a joke of an answer.

This is just shutting down conversations that were off topic.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

This is analysis and I like it.

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning. So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

I don't think a wolf would bring this up, because why explain your strategy to the entire thread?

I dunno, it's just all of their posts in general I agree with but these were a few examples. Maybe in the 3rd one I'm being convinced by them explaining I don't know what I'm doing still but other than that it's just everything. Now please answer my question.

@Neon I think this is what you wanted?

Yes thanks I'll look at it ^^

The reasoning is there but I just don't see how this leads you to alignment certainty.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Hey remember when I said don't consolidate on a wagon it's just gonna kill a town we need two competing wagons and than for the 2nd day in a ris we had a run away wagon kill a town.

Yeah i remember when I said that.

I remember when you said we need two competing wagons for info. Did you actually say the bit about ‘it’ll kill town’?

I don’t like statisically likely whataboutism. A wolf can say ‘you’ll kill town’ and then try and get credit for that the next day.

I am 99.8% sure I said it was gonna kill a town yes

You did, I just backread that an hour ago

Thank you

[Scotty]

I feel strongly that at least one of falcon/splints is wolf.

Roxy vehemently defends splints towniness and while I don’t see it, it is a significant holdup.

[Scotty]

ok big day tomorrow, fading in bed but will look to post more should time allow

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

As Golden would say, I will eat my hat if Dennis is deepwolfing.

I only promised to bite it.

But I agree. Dennis posting today feels obvitown.

Golden having the exact opposite view that I have on everything is making it impossible for me to see them as town especially because Golden has been a heavy voice in getting the thread to its current state and its current state is dead town.

[Dennis]

The logical assumption is that someone includes themselves among their towncore by default so it's unnecessary and potentially performative to list themselves, because either they know they're town from their rolecard, or they know they need to fake being town from their rolecard. One doesn't normally include themselves in readslist as they cannot make a read on their own alignment which is a known factor to them, and either they know they're town or need to fake it. The need for anti-town to fake being town is what subconsciously can cause them to want to project "I AM TOWN" at every opportunity, hence listing themselves in towncores/townreads lists. It is common enough for actual townies, especially from certain site cultures, to list themselves in such things so it's not a hard wolf tell, but it can be a soft tell when alongside other performative town projection examples.

Why would Soneji defend Neon with a after she got called out for adding herself in her towncore? Especially bringing into the equation of different site cultures doesn't make any sense if Soneji is wolf and Neon is town, when it seemed like (to me) that Golden was suspicious of Neon.

If you ask me a joke of a question, you're going to get a joke of an answer.

This is just shutting down conversations that were off topic.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

This is analysis and I like it.

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning. So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

I don't think a wolf would bring this up, because why explain your strategy to the entire thread?

I dunno, it's just all of their posts in general I agree with but these were a few examples. Maybe in the 3rd one I'm being convinced by them explaining I don't know what I'm doing still but other than that it's just everything. Now please answer my question.

@Neon I think this is what you wanted?

Yes thanks I'll look at it ^^

The reasoning is there but I just don't see how this leads you to alignment certainty.

Remember that this was thrown together towards EoD. I also say in another post somewhere at EoD that I wasn't 100% sure but I was more certain than not that Soneji was town and I was willing to stand by that.

[Golden]

As Golden would say, I will eat my hat if Dennis is deepwolfing.

I only promised to bite it.

But I agree. Dennis posting today feels obvitown.

Golden having the exact opposite view that I have on everything is making it impossible for me to see them as town especially because Golden has been a heavy voice in getting the thread to its current state and its current state is dead town.

I'm looking forward to debriefing this game with you afterwards. Whichever of us is righter gets gloating rights, and I'm fine if that's you.

But I think the fundamental problem you and I have right now is that we both inherently want to tinfoil each other just because we don't agree, when actually finding where we *do* agree could be significantly helpful.

I think you'd do well to consider you just met me and that there are people here who have more than a decade's experience of disagreeing with me on a lot when I'm town saying I'm town. My God, SVS literally not suspecting me at all is practically a miracle, that should virtually be a lockclear of me lol.

Or, read my signature. The top one expresses my town game and the bottom one expressed my baddie game.

(Which reminds me, Vivax, when you asked me how I got the nickname 'the coward' in the anniversary game I seriously thought you had me nailed. I thought you'd recognise the NK pattern as safe).