Re: Assassin's Creed Mafia (D1)
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:10 am
Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
"This could provide me an easy excuse to vote for a player! Please say more to make that easier for me."Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:45 pmI want to like this read because it sounds cool, but I don't understand it. Explain what you mean?ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:39 pmRight now the way you are behaving gives me the sense you want to be in control for the EOD, and all I can say is that does not make me feel so good about you. I do not think I would hang you today, however.
How do you expect a civilian to respond to aggressive suspicion against them? I am not asking how you would like them to respond or how you think they should respond. I am asking how, in your experience, does a typical civilian respond when a player or players are hounding them incessantly?
Ok, could you at least answer the question tho?Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:09 amIt's not a real read, Drago. It's made-up to try and spur on conversation in a dead thread.Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:56 amWhile yes, I did do a false dichotomy with presenting only two options when there could be more, what is wrong with what you're doing is how you're dismissing the entire post as a fallacy even though only a part of it was. The entire reason for why I scum read you wasn't a fallacy but you keenly ignored having to explain yourself against me. If I must stress again, how does Sloonei not opening this game the say way he did in a previous game make him scum when many ppl never open the same way as well? I certainly didn't open the same way as in a previous game, you didn't either as this is the first game I've played with you where you voted for someone in your first post. So why were you being a hypocrite LC?Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:52 amFalse dichotomy.Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:47 amHave you know counters to my points about you?Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:45 amI haven't felt like myself lately...speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.
Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.
Mac observed a possible association between Epi and Tony here (I think), but on a second look I'm inclined to say that I see nothing. I could still very easily see this as scum Epi busting the chops of a civilian player for making a (in his opinion) silly observation. That does not need to imply anything at all about Tony.Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:04 pmTony has twelve posts. Why do they need to be memorable? You can read them in under sixty seconds. Why does this post exist?Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:24 pm tsp's posts have been forgettable to me but we're on the same wagon so sure i guess i can hold off on reading him for now
And it's really not what Mikey was suspecting sloonei for? Again, the "diminishing important aspects" point. It feels like he didn't even read the on-going thing, just skipped to the end, saw Sloonei look a lot better than Mikey, and gave the read, because it's a safe spot to sit on. I don't like how TH is taking a convoluted suspicion coming from Mikey on Sloonei and describing it in the scummiest way possible, while also misrepresenting his entire push, ergo, he called Mikey out for pushing sloonei, when :Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:52 amYou could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down herets account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 amThere exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:09 am I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.
So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.
Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.
Happy?
*bolded* - already explainedEpignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:57 pmI don't know the answer to that. What would satisfy you? I've already said I think ts is engaging in bullshit discussion about mechanics and people who talk about mechanics. ts looks nervous. Like someone who bit off more than he can chew and is trying to make himself out to be the big fish regardless.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:52 pmIf I were to ask why, would you give me a satisfying answer?Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:46 pmI'll make this real simple for you. Ready?
I think ts is
Spoiler: show
Long con : 4 votes with this vote at the time. He sits on this for a while, then he switches to...Whom, might you ask?Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:50 pmThis is true.Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:45 pmThis is just blatantly not true. It's something I have done many times in the past, mostly due to the "you-die-you-don't-win" rule we used to go by around here... when you have to survive to win, you learn to not look TOO Civvish. I still hold the lessons dear to my heart, because dying sucks either way, and if you want to survive the night, the baddies have to believe you can be lynched.
[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine
There is no reason you should have to explain this to Turnip Head. TH was around during that time.
Oh gee I wonder. Why? No reason to ask as the reasoning may prolly be "voted to see the poll" or "wagons".
Wait, is that a 3 votes wagon?
I actually really liked his LC comment. I kind of feel bad for saying this as it will be exploited by him, but generally, I feel like me and TSP have kind of the same outlook on the game. Our reads are somewhat similar, at least from my PoV, and each time we were both town (or I was scum and he was town but it was multiball). I resonated with it, I think it's actually the correct take. Its heart does feel in the right place. I wholeheartedly agree with that post.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:31 pmThis is perhaps worse than the Leetic but it’s heart is in the right placeLong Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 pmI would also say the same about JaggedJimmyJay, but he's Schrödinger's player right now. I'll join you on the Sloonei vote, he has three posts and they're all about an issue that's above his pay grade as a player. In A World Asunder, town Sloonei opened Day 1 with two town reads and a vote on a suspect. [VOTE: sloonei] aubergineleetic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:22 pm Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.
Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.
I think a wolf Epi used this more to shade FG than defend TSP, and if he were a wolf with TSP, I don't think he'd consciously move his cursor on the submit button, because he'd second-guess himself into how bad it would turn out to look.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:23 pmI’ve been taking the maybes and perhapses out of my emails today. It’s an overall problem.
I take it MR is some sort of English teacher or something, as his cases very much revolve around wording and such. His whole case on me went from the premise I was scum, which is why I am suspecting people that are still on me, because :Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:16 am It's early days still, but Ted is popping out to me as someone to ISO. Everytime I read his post I'm thinking along the lines of 'Can a scum make that? ...Sure'.
I'm supposed to be working right now (from home, so it's easy for me to get distracted), but next time I take a break I'll do a proper ISO.
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:10 am Okay, here are a couple posts from Ted that pinged me:
Disclaimer: it's early D1 etc etc.
This is a cop out to talking about the (at the time) ongoing Sloonei-TS debate. 'Trying to wrap my head around the mess' comes across to me as a scum uncertain how to slip into the predominant conversation.
A light shading on TS (who I assume is Mikey), followed by a rather qualified reason for TRing Sloonei. Again, just reads as someone who is hesitant to lay down solid reads.tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:59 am If ts account is [NSM] Mikey I don't remember him being this jumpy actually.
linki : I liked how you reacted to ts account's push on you, particularly one post somewhere. I guess you handled the callout pretty well, it's maybe something to do with how bad the votes on you were that deceives me into it, but idrc for now, you're sloonei.
(Quote chain that I cut)
For one thing, it had definitely petered out by this point. But mainly, it has the tone of a scum who is trying to appear frustrated, e.g. 'quite frankly' and such phrasing.
The rest of his ISO is uninspiring. Mostly null posts that don't really indicate alignment either way, and nothing that looks townie enough to overrule my suspicions. Some of the other posts that don't sit well with me include a minor mechanics comments, a seemingly random and unexplained vote on Leetic ('this feels good for now', really?), and some weird commentary on a Mac who had barely entered the thread at that point. Even his entrance posts look a bit questionable under this light, but admittedly by this point I may be tunneling a bit.
Ted sits at the bottom of my list at the moment. I don't normally vote this early into the game, but hey, sometimes it's fun to switch things up. [VOTE: tedextr] aubergine
NAI unless you go from the premise a scum probably posted it.This is a cop out to talking about the (at the time) ongoing Sloonei-TS debate. 'Trying to wrap my head around the mess' comes across to me as a scum uncertain how to slip into the predominant conversation.
This point was literally refuted in his next point that he makes, and I found it baffling how "I think ts and sloonei are town" is reflective of a hesitant behaviour, but whatever.A light shading on TS (who I assume is Mikey), followed by a rather qualified reason for TRing Sloonei. Again, just reads as someone who is hesitant to lay down solid reads.
He decided to leave the previous argument in even though he literally commented on the post that refutes his argument, but okay.For one thing, it had definitely petered out by this point. But mainly, it has the tone of a scum who is trying to appear frustrated, e.g. 'quite frankly' and such phrasing.
Why are you voting for a confirmed civilian?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
No, I disagree. She's super casual and nonchalant in her posts. Everything feels natural, even some of the occasional awkwardness. She speaks her mind and doesn't care. A play style that reflects one of a town than a scum.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pmHer play style is completely null.
I accept meta info from leetic, but that doesn't mean it's a bad vote right now.
Misinterpreted. Genuine curiosity - I didn't understand what he meant by 'want to be in control for the EoD' (or, rather, how Drago was exhibiting such behaviour, especially so far out from EoD). It sounds like a new angle on reading the game I hadn't considered before.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:16 am"This could provide me an easy excuse to vote for a player! Please say more to make that easier for me."Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:45 pmI want to like this read because it sounds cool, but I don't understand it. Explain what you mean?ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:39 pmRight now the way you are behaving gives me the sense you want to be in control for the EOD, and all I can say is that does not make me feel so good about you. I do not think I would hang you today, however.
I disagree with your disagreement. Plenty of wolves can be super casual and nonchalant, and FG strikes me as the type to play similarly game to game regardless of alignment.Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:27 amNo, I disagree. She's super casual and nonchalant in her posts. Everything feels natural, even some of the occasional awkwardness. She speaks her mind and doesn't care. A play style that reflects one of a town than a scum.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pmHer play style is completely null.
I accept meta info from leetic, but that doesn't mean it's a bad vote right now.
Word your question fairly or don't bother asking it.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:26 amWhy are you voting for a confirmed civilian?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
Why are you voting for tedxtr?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:30 amWord your question fairly or don't bother asking it.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:26 amWhy are you voting for a confirmed civilian?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
Why shouldn't you? If it can make ppl think you're not wolf(which I assume would be the goal), then you wouldn't drag it out right? Do you believe that you accomplish that with much fewer posts?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:49 pmyeah ted and I did it last game but it only went on for about 6 posts total, and that was enough to seal the win in the end. It’d be pointless to drag an act like that out over several pages.leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 pm For my feelings on the matter, while stranger things have happened, even when I pulled off the "argue with scumbuddy D1 about something pointless for distancing", I didn't do it for nearly as long. Sloonei and Mikey were quite dedicated in their argument, so I find it doubtful that they are w/w
That is a nice scumtell you have there.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
yesDragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amWhy shouldn't you? If it can make ppl think you're not wolf(which I assume would be the goal), then you wouldn't drag it out right? Do you believe that you accomplish that with much fewer posts?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:49 pmyeah ted and I did it last game but it only went on for about 6 posts total, and that was enough to seal the win in the end. It’d be pointless to drag an act like that out over several pages.leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 pm For my feelings on the matter, while stranger things have happened, even when I pulled off the "argue with scumbuddy D1 about something pointless for distancing", I didn't do it for nearly as long. Sloonei and Mikey were quite dedicated in their argument, so I find it doubtful that they are w/w
It's generally against a wolf's nature to go on ranting for 3 pages. It gets very tiresome at some point. You won't and don't want to convince your wolf partner that you are wolf, because he already knows it.Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amWhy shouldn't you? If it can make ppl think you're not wolf(which I assume would be the goal), then you wouldn't drag it out right? Do you believe that you accomplish that with much fewer posts?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:49 pmyeah ted and I did it last game but it only went on for about 6 posts total, and that was enough to seal the win in the end. It’d be pointless to drag an act like that out over several pages.leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 pm For my feelings on the matter, while stranger things have happened, even when I pulled off the "argue with scumbuddy D1 about something pointless for distancing", I didn't do it for nearly as long. Sloonei and Mikey were quite dedicated in their argument, so I find it doubtful that they are w/w
I hate that I agree with this.leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:30 pm speedchuck's ISO is similarly shallow, asking questions about Mikey and going after LC are his only contributions. As LC was an easy target, it can easily seem like he's trying to blend in - especially given how the later posts have been only jokes or similar. [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine
I don't get how speedchuck didn't get the point of this.speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 amI don't get the point of this.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:36 amWhich one do you think I meant? If you had to guess![]()
This is something I have a game problem with. Every townie has a goal of fulfilling the town win con. 99 percent of the time, that means not getting lynched if you can help it. A lot of us have developed a smooth town meta as to protect ourselves from being nightkilled early or caught too easily as scum.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:38 amWait, so are you admitting to forced contribution in order to get brownie points?Spoiler: show
Early on in the game, I felt he was hedging his bets and trying to appear casual and such. This was a very early D1 read, and I didn't pursue it very far. As Ted progressed, I didn't find anything in particular that cleared him. He seemed to pick his spots and his posts continued to leave me uninspired. He seemed to be scumhunting to some extent, but I didn't see anything that made me think a wolf couldn't fake it.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:33 amWhy are you voting for tedxtr?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:30 amWord your question fairly or don't bother asking it.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:26 amWhy are you voting for a confirmed civilian?Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
I see then.tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:38 amIt's generally against a wolf's nature to go on ranting for 3 pages. It gets very tiresome at some point. You won't and don't want to convince your wolf partner that you are wolf, because he already knows it.Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amWhy shouldn't you? If it can make ppl think you're not wolf(which I assume would be the goal), then you wouldn't drag it out right? Do you believe that you accomplish that with much fewer posts?Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:49 pmyeah ted and I did it last game but it only went on for about 6 posts total, and that was enough to seal the win in the end. It’d be pointless to drag an act like that out over several pages.leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:46 pm For my feelings on the matter, while stranger things have happened, even when I pulled off the "argue with scumbuddy D1 about something pointless for distancing", I didn't do it for nearly as long. Sloonei and Mikey were quite dedicated in their argument, so I find it doubtful that they are w/w
That's why anti-spews are sudden and often related to a specific set of posts, maybe at EoD when one wolf is getting lynched. If you're a wolf, your word is truth, and stating the truth only takes a single line. If you're a town, you don't know the other person is a town, thus, it takes 3 pages of conflict before you lean one way or the other.
No, I don't have anything "interesting" in mind.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:45 am Drago's still throwing me off. Drago, you have the uncanny ability to show up when you get mentioned in the thread, so can you say something interesting that I can comfortably townread you for?
Thanks, been working hard on it.ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amThat is a nice scumtell you have there.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
I appreciate your confidence in my abilities.MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:16 amRadishes is an obscenely good player. He has levels. Getting lynched early in the GOC was an outlier for him.
The AMA.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:49 amThanks, been working hard on it.ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amThat is a nice scumtell you have there.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
...What is it?
Having not properly thought about the last 9ish hours of posts:
Oh, I see. Eh, I do that sometimes. Someone on my home community once pointed out I am easier to read when I've just woken up (they're all on a different time zone to me) and so I used to @ that person and get him to question me when I woke up as a joke/to prove he's wrong.ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:52 amThe AMA.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:49 amThanks, been working hard on it.ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:35 amThat is a nice scumtell you have there.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:25 am Good morning folks. Just spent an hour reading (er, some skimming) to catch up. AMA. My answer will undoubtedly be 'dunno, don't remember what was said'.
...What is it?
Actually, there is one name I've been mulling over: Epi. People gave TH grief for his post about 'he's not being a lovable jerk' or whatever it was, but actually that's exactly how I felt at the time of TH's post too, that Epi was doing his Epi thing, but that it was...maybe not forced, but certainly without purpose. From my skim of the thread since I was last here, I still feel that way. In my other games with Epi, I could tell he had thoughts going on even when he posted his short, unexplained, blunt messages. This game, he sounds like he's affecting that sort of persona more so than embodying it. He's picking what he responds to at random, it feels like.
I will defer to answer. I'm someone who needs to re-read to properly imbibe. I've only done a surface read/skim.ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:38 am I will ask you a question, then. What knowledge did you gain from your catch up?